CamboBill

Yes, Cam gets a hard time in Carolina and I think race is a big part of that. I admit, I was slow to warm to him as well, mostly because I saw him selfish and self servicing. That said he is a rrue franchise qb and it is laughable some "fans" think they might be better off with Derek Anderson. I will let someone else answer your question about environment in Buffalo as I have not been there in around 20 years. Generally speaking .... politically ... upstate NY runs republican and NYC metro runs dem. I don't think it has any specific racist reputation, but some national media like Deadspin have raised the issue IIRC. You guys need some WR help in Dallas. Hurts might help but Dez needed more help, particularly with Zeke out. What is the feeling on Dak these days? Is he still franchise savior or did the luster wear off after last year? I am thinking you could get a good young, barely USED QB from UPITT for him hehe. Hmm, I guess then it would boils down to how you felt about Kaepernick who is mixed race. If you hate only the black part of him you are probably racist If you hate only the white part you are also racist ff you hated both sides equally you are a bleeding heart equal opportunity liberal Happy to solve that question for you.

Thank you for at least admitting you are extrapolating what you think I might be saying, rather than what I am actually saying. It is an ugly tactic IMHO. Most of the rest of your post is your usual obfuscations and misdirection. At this point we risk getting into one of those pointless one on one slag fests that nobody wants to read, and frankly I do not have the time for. On a more positive note, I can relate to some of your comments on Kap. Personally, I respect that him for taking a stand (or knee I guess). On the other hand his protest was poorly thought out as it had no end game. As you point out , he hurt his cause by allowing "pig" imagery and other leftist causes to get mixed in to his protest image. Some of this was deliberate misrepresentation by the far right, but he did himself no favors by not actively and quickly disassociating himself from the more militants items. I think (hope) that most reasonable Americans can agree that there is an excessive use of deadly force by our police these days AND that black communities are the most affected by this. There is a need for true accountability in such instances and I support efforts to get this done. However, making the message explicitly antipolice or associating anarchists elements within the movement is not going to fly., and rightly or wrongly that is how many seem to perceive BLM now.

I just saw that too. I also saw he only scored a 13 on the wonderlic. That test is hardly the end of discussion as to football IQ and mental processing, but 13 is pretty low. Josh Allen scored a 37 (tied for 7th in history of test). While one should not put too much emphasis on the wonderlic , it's enough for me to consider to drop him to #4 on my QB draft ratings after Allen now. Let's see how his pro day goes.

I keep suggesting that you start a thread on Cambodia in the the non-football part of this forum so as not to go too far off topic. That said your more recent post is a bit less trolling so I will offer a reply here. I am quite familiar with the link you cite ... it is funny, written tongue in cheek but also with some truth to it. The link is now 5 years old. 10 to 15 years ago Sihanoukvville (Cambodia's only ocean front city) was a notorious den of Russian mobsters on the run, drug and arms dealers, pedophiles and other assorted predators. Most expats here view it as a s#&thole. As the Russian economy crashed, most of the mobsters left but 5 to 6 years ago (as the link you provide indicates) after the latest Thai military coup, there was a crackdown on the many visa overstayers in the Sexpat city of Pattaya which caused a temporary influx of Sexpat refugees from there. However, since then, Sihanoukvville (as has much of urban Cambodia) has gentrified Almost all of the coastline property has been sold to Chinese investors who are converting the entire city into a casino town replete with its own airport, and chartered flights to China. Most of the Sexpat refugees from Thailand have either found ways to stay in Pattaya or given up and gone home. From the Russian mob capital of SEA to 2 years of sex tourist refugee center to a Chinese casino town. All In 10 years. That is progress in Sihanoukvville.

One reason I have not replied to you much and left you to spar with Murph instead is you have shown a propensity (as many fanatics do) of misrepresenting your targets viewpoints. It is a common propaganda technique and one which I am wise to. For example, you insist I answer your question "where is your proof of the claims that a large part of fans in Buffalo made there decision on Tyrod based on Race, the media made decisions on Tyrod based on race, and the organization made decisions based on race?" How can I justify this position when I have NEVER come close to taking it. Thus your approach is dishonest and suggests you are more interested in derailing the topic rather than engaging it. My posts have questioned, why so many people cannot say anything positive about Tyrod Taylor ... a lower middle tier QB, with high character, an underdog story, and a gamer who did all he could for the team. Post after post of Tyrold is trash, thank god he is gone etc. I get that he was not the next Jim Kelly but he was probable the best we have had since, and it is not like we had a replacement tearing things up .... I mean a rookie 5th round pick with a rep for turnovers in college?! Then I see so many more that are outright dismissive of Lamar Jackson as a prospect, with lazy comparisons like "the next Tyrod" and the "next rg3" and it is enough to make one wonder. So I QUESTIONED how much of an issue people here though race and stereotypes still played in QB perceptions. On the Internet, the most fringe tend to be the most vocal, so I am happy I have gotten a good cross section of replies here ... the usual two or three trolls trying to derail the topic is an expected and acceptable price for this. As other posters have pointed out EVERY franchise probably has kkk types, neonazi types, and other cretins embedded in their fan base... fortunately those numbers are probably quite tiny, a step up from this is a segment that still believes black qbs cannot succeed in the NFL ... and the oft mentioned Russ Wilson and Cam Newton have more than their share of haters. A lot of these views are probably not deliberately racist but are still dangerous no matter how much code words like "Pocket Passer" are used. When I look at Lamar Jackson I see a pocket Passer, high football IQ, with some throwing mechanics issues, and can run like hell. I am not suggesting that all, or even, most critics of Tyrod or LJ are racist but it would be interesting to see a correlation between the two. At the very least people should be cautious of lazy thinking .... look at how many people dismissed DeShawn Watson last year. How did that work out? I also raised ROSEN, because as I looked deeply in to each qb candidate I kept seeing "Character issues" , "soft", "bad fit", "no passion for game" in summaries of Rosen. The deeper I dug all I could find was some anti-trump comments, criticism of NCAA profiteering, and the fact that he kept a hot tub in his flat. Wow! Such character issues! Yet mindlessly repeated by media and fans alike. . Durability, issues aside we should be lucky to have the kid. We live in an Era where MSM like Fox News tells LeBron James to "shut op and dribble", Kap's career blackballed and ruined for his stance, ... now it's know your place or pay the price to Rosen. Regardless of what one believes about flag or anthem protests, this is a toxic, and dangerous environment. Pro sports is at the vanguard of America culture, if these issues cannot be discussed here, where can they be discussed?

Cool. If ever in the area again let me know. I rarely travel now, but in my 3 trips to Japan I found it fascinating but a bit overwhelming. Sadly the trips were all business and i never made it outside of Tokyo. Food in Phnom Penh is fantastic ... local fare is a bit inferior to neighboring Thailand and Vietnam, but you can appreciate the different influences. Being a former french colony with many French restaurants there is a remarkable number of choices here, not to mention you can buy baguettes and good coffee from any number of street vendors.

Supposedly it goes ... " I wiww wuv you wong time hansum man" Hope that thought keeps you and the meanie warm on a cold western new York (or wherever you are) night.

Thanks and I originally missed your post somehow. Yes I am sure the large majority are just sincere fans as you describe, even if some of those fall into lazy traps of analysis when considering players. As others have pointed out every community has its bad apples and they tend to be the loudest, most insistent , threatening etc. it goes with the territory. As to diversity of opinions, it would be a boring place if we all agreed 100% on the path to our franchise qb. Thank you for the names of the studies, will see if there is a way to access them from here. the Kap issue is another one .... regardless of where one stands on the kneeling controversy, it is clear he is being blackballed. ex 49er safety E Reid also seems to think he is being blackballed. Not sure about this yet as the market for safeties has been soft overall this year. Time will tell though ... Reid is too good a player to not have any suitors.

Thanks Tiger ... well it is a balmy 88 degree as I type this and is supposed to get down to a chilly 77 at night. I can see your point but I do think Lamar will go top 10. If Mayfield is gone too that does not leave much to choose from unless you are a Rudolph fan (I am not).

Good post even if we disagree on Lamar. I like Rosen too but his durability scares the heck out of me... 7 games missed in two years and multiple concussions is a warning sign. I would still take the risk if he somehow dropped to #12, but reality suggests we would have to go to #2 to get him and that is just too high a price for a guy with his injury concerns. Josh Allen is the wild card with Browns and Jets being linked to him, but I sort of feel these are smokescreen. I think if Bills fans want a starting level QB this draft they will be looking at Mayfield or Lamar. I don't think either drops to #12 .... Mayfield never gets past Miami if he even gets that far. Other QB hungry teams are not going to wait to see Lamar slide to 12. For whatever his flaws there is far too much upside, and that is what drafting a franchise QB is about. I just don't get the RG3 comparisons ... yes they are black and can run ... but I have seen enough tape on Lamar to know he has potential to be productive out of the pocket. My (admiteddly fuzzy) memories of RG3S tape coming out of college are of a guy who rarely stayed in the pocket and simply rolled out, made one read, then sprinted full speed. Not the same game at all as Lamar. Mayfield looks OK but not exceptional ... ,hugely productive in college but average to below average arm, OK but not great accuracy, no experience in a pro style offense. People keep talking about the "it" factor this is more about him knowing when the lights and cameras are on him, and he is admittedly good with the media. I see to much Manzel in him which might be unfair as I have heard nothing about any substance abuse with him ... but his apparent case of celebrityitis is worrying and I wonder how he will handle fame. On the field he reminds me of a hybrid of Menzel and Keenum coming out of college .... not awful but not that great either. I take Lamar 10 times out of 10 over him just for the upside.

Thanks. I will get to the heart of it. Tyrod was the best QB we have had this century. That said, he was a lower middle tier starter maybe around rank 20 to 22. He was a great game manager and highly effective when the game was close. The games needed to be close because Tyrod needed the running game to be relevant in order for him to be effective. Once the Bills fell behind and needed to move the ball in 10 to 20 yard chunks he was ineffective, and in the modern, high scoring NFL this just does not work. He might have been better if the Bills had not traded Watkins (with whom he worked out with in the offseason), but we will never know and I have no problem with the Watkins deal. The above are all valid criticisms and have nothing to do with race. I appreciate that you at least acknowledge his contributions and how he handled himself but it bothers me when I see most posters here just trashing him. He was also the classic underdog story. ... a late round pick that took less money to play for us because he had a better chance at starting. A "blue collar" town like buffalo should have embraced such an underdog. Instead too many people looked at a half full glass of water and accused it of being empty. Anyway, it is in the past now, but when the same tropes are being applied to Lamar Jackson it is cause for concern. Remember all the DeShawn Watson criticism last year? Jackson should be better than him.

You are coming across more than a little thick. This is a football forum, I have raised identity politics in the context of the NFL ... and more specifically the Bills, the recent ouster of their black QB, the level of vitriol towards him by so many on this board. , and parallel outlooks and stereotypes as to the only higher rated Black and Jewish QB prospects in the draft this year.. This should not be too hard for you to follow. As to your continued and irrelevant comments about Cambodia ... I have encouraged you to start a thread on that in the non football section of this forum. Link me to it, I will try to sort you out. it is great you have discovered Wikipedia but it sounds like you could not find Cambodia on a map. Your continued obsession about sex and who might be "for sale outside my window" comes across as creepy to say the least. There is nobody for sale for $2 here .... I suppose I could head downtown and find a $50 hooker if that were my thing, but you could probably do the same wherever you live. Good luck. Hope that idea titilates you, as you are so fixated on these types of topics.

Japan is a tough place for NFL. I rely on NFL Game pass international. costs between US $200 and $300 per year depending on where you are .... all teams, all games, playoffs, super bowl, off season including combine and draft. NFL channel etc. I try to stay awake to watch the Bills live but considering most games start at 1am I sometimes wait and watch the game on demand the next day. As to the role of ethnicity in marketing and drafting, you may br right. Miami tried several Jewish quarterbacks (Jay Fiedler and Sage Rosenfelc ome to mind) , Markets with large Asian minorities have been the first to bring in baseball talent from Asia. Irish still means something in Boston. I find it all a bit silly, but I do understand many people (potential ticket buyers and buyers of advertisers' products ) relate to ethnic identity and thus it made a certain amount of marketin sense to attract them.

Interesting. If you have time I would appreciate any links you might have.

One problem with people who rage too much about any mention of race or identity politics is that they always exaggerate (misrepresent) the others points. Neither I nor any other person on this thread has said "race is the only reason" as you and Mr. WEO suggest. .These types of tactics make it impossible to discuss anything with some people. I have questioned whether it race is (was) a factor with Tyrox and how much. If some people believe it was zero factor that is their right. I am trying to get a feel for how much of an issue people think this is. From where I sit Tyrol deserved better from fans and management. Past is past but now i see all the negative posts about Lamar Jackson.

Your analogies as to trying to connect criticism of tyrod to criticism of some of those who criticize tyrod to stereotypes that some uninformed people have about expat life fail any logic test. Not really up to just getting trolled but if you want to discuss living in SEA ..'start a thread in the non football forum and link me to it. This thread should be football centric. That actually is a cool avatar he has .... Deadhead Bill ....love it.

That is sort of my thinking too ... and with Jackson two on the "pocket passer" stereotype

Friendly locals means no such thing. It means that people are receptive to western foreigners as opposed to xenophobic. There are plenty of SEX tourists in Southeast Asia but Thailand is the main destination for that. Most are passing through rather than living here. Many are in their 30s ... not the old man stereotype. People who live hear tend to have wives within at least 10 hears their age, and live very simple lives. Life is good here, you should take your mind out of the gutter.

Thanks, I understand your point. The Tyrod benching was one of the most embarrassing days I can remember in recent Bills history. I understand how bad he was in preceeding weeks. but still .... I am generally optimistic about the McBean Era ... but this was a bad day for them. I suspect we share the same sentiments as to current presidency although to be fair, the alternative was awful too. I won't say more here because we should keep it football specific.

Race is an important topic as long as people do not rush to conclusions either way. As to Alle's floor ... I considered hackenbug but thought that too unfair

Appreciate it. Thanks. Go Bills!

Yeah ... it is the Internet so you anticipate meeting all types of people. This place is pretty opinionated (as it should be) but not as savage as other forums I have seen. In fact the Tyrod Saga was really the only ongoing divisive topic this year. I understood people saying we need better when it came to Tyrod .... but Nate Peterman a rookie 5th round pick ... still smh. Anyway it is water on the bridge ... but when I see the same arguments against Lamar Jackson, I cringe a little bit. Never involved with Air America.

While I rank Jackson as the #3 QB this year, I also think he is the most underrated. his pro day is on the 29th so that might at least get him some media buzz. I think it's crazy that nobody includes him in speculation of top QBs to be drafted.. Your point about his improvement year to year is a good one. On another thread on this board there was an interesting video demonstrating his ability to read coverage, multiple reads, and get the ball out. His throwing mechanics still need work (leg drive rather than relying on arm whip) but that is fixible. I see composure with this guy, not a panicked tuck and run guy, and tells me a lot.

Well I just compared D'Arnold to Dalton ..... maybe that means I am anti-redhead or "ginger" as folks from the UK call them. I will need to contemplate this matter, after watching some Baker Mayfield video with Randy Neumann's "Short people" playing in the background.

Yes. Sometimes to parry is often a wise decision when it comes to mentions of race, religion, or politics . Sometimes you will get intelligent discussion out of it ... most times not .. but still worth the effort IMHO. We agree on not overpaying for #2 Thank you. .Business opportunity took me to Southeast Asia .... but mostly in Singapore and Jakarta. Increasing overheads due to properly boom and office and facility rentals tripling over one to two years caused me to decide I was pedaling too hard for too few miles so I retired early to here. Despite it's tragic history and bad image it is becoming an increasingly popular target for early retirees due to low cost of living, easy visa setup, and friendly locals. Petty crime and cleanliness are unfortunately other matters entirely. Fortunately the beaches and scenery of other nearby countries are only a 1 to 3 hour flight away, when I need a break. Not been back to New York in 10 years ... most family passed on and friends scattered now across USA. I hope to get back end of this year or early next to visit sister.