twoandfourteen
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Posts posted by twoandfourteen
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1 hour ago, ScottLaw said:
?
No no.
This gets in the way of the "Tyrod is everything wrong with this team" takes.
He is. Well, at least it starts there. The other stuff is a result of his inability to play QB in a modern passing offense.
Go ask Marquise Goodwin or Robert Woods.
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2 hours ago, Over 29 years of fanhood said:
This just isn’t true. TT is still better than every single rookie QB this team has Drafted since the late 80’s
That's exactly why we are all arguing about this right now.
...And it's not exactly a ringing endorsement of Tyrod Taylor's abilities as a starting QB.
Congratulations on being better than Brian McClure (rd12/1986), Matt Rodgers (rd12/1992), Todd Collins (rd2/1995), JP Losman (rd1/2004), Trent Edwards (rd3/2007), Levi Brown (rd7/2010), EJ Manuel (rd1/2013), and Cardale Jones (rd4/2016).
Yikes. Looks even worse when you see it all in one place like that. "30 years of excellence", my friends.
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9 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
Miami is wearing their Aqua Jerseys this week.
Buffalo Bills vs Miami Dolphins
at Hard Rock Stadium, Miami Gardens, FLRecent Head To Head History for:
Buffalo vs MiamiGame will look really good.
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9 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
A great coach? No he is not at all with many suspect in game decisions. Good defense? You cannot be serious. The run D is atrocious! No, I don't and especially not behind the OL we currently have that struggles mightily with pass blocking in too many games. Try again.
A direct result of blocking for a QB that takes too long to recognize the defensive coverage and to get rid of the football. Taylor's reliance on his mobility is also detrimental to the offensive line, because they don't know where he will end up going throughout the play.
But do continue to make excuses for the guy.
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29 minutes ago, PeterGriffin said:
Not arguing this point but IMO his running stats are a by product of not reading a defense and holding the ball and running because he won't throw the ball whereas a good QB has less running yards as they go through their progressions and get rid of the ball.
This is absolutely correct. I should have included that -- good point.
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2 minutes ago, Teddy KGB said:
Mike Glennon, Brian Hoyer, TJ Yates, Brock Osweiler, Trevor Siemian
This is exactly the group Tyrod belongs in: career backups who become fringe starters out of desperation when there are no other options. However, no one defends these guys or proclaims them to be "elite" by any measure. They are punchlines, just as you have intended to use them here.
I watched one game with Osweiler this year. The guy was not good. However, even he was making certain throws that Taylor has NEVER shown any acumen for. Taylor is just smarter with the football and understands how to work within his own limitations overall better than the group of clowns you listed. I don't know much about the "intangible" side of things with that group, but I would imagine that Taylor is far and away superior on that front as far as that is concerned.
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15 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:
Well what you're arguing doesn't matter, does it? We already know we're going to replace Taylor.
Yet, as it is...
Despite missing what translates to a full NFL game, he's still responsible for 54% of the offensive snaps, 61% of the offense's total yards, 58% of the offense's total 1st downs...and 65% of the offensive TDs.
We have the 8th worst defense by yards, 3rd worst run defense, and we're 18th in points given up per game. Yes we have an opportunistic defense, but even there we're tied for 8th in takeaways.
Yet somehow, despite a 5 interception half by Not Ready Nate, we're still 6th in our turnover differential and go into week 17 with a legitimate shot at the playoffs for the first time in 12-13 years.
Yeah, sorry to inform you, but Tyrod Taylor has been an important part to this team getting to this point this year.
Maybe you weirdos will get your wish and this next game will be the very last game that you have to root for him. Or maybe, just maybe we make it into the playoffs for the first time this millennium and you have to keep rooting for Taylor and give him just a little bit of credit. Like I said, we can start searching for our new QB as soon as the season is done, but it's not
Since the QB position is by far the most important on the field, you are correct -- Taylor has been an important part, but only by default. His main contribution has been defined by not doing things: not throwing INTs and not scoring TDs. For example, the offense hasn't had a meaningful 2nd half TD since October.
8 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:Tyrod's passing stats are anywhere from mediocre to bad. I don't think anyone is going to argue that.
In your "comprehensive" review of Tyrod you've conveniently left out his running ability. He's an excellent rushing QB.
If you look at Tyrod "comprehensively" he is, in fact, a decent QB.
His running ability is one of the most overrated things in sports.
If I'm a defensive coordinator, I'll gladly concede 50-60 rushing yards to the QB if it means he'll only throw for 140 or 160. Much better to give up 180-200 total yards than face the prospect of allowing 275-300+ to an actual "decent" QB.
His rushing is just a more inefficient way to move the ball downfield. It's great if you've got a guy who can throw -- but when it's your QB's main weapon, it's a recipe for lots of punts and FGs, as we've seen.
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6 hours ago, blacklabel said:
To me, the worst loss of the season was the Thursday night game vs. the Jets. They go into the game at 5-2, they come off some exciting wins over Oakland and Tampa Bay, the defense is racking up turnovers, offense doing just enough, etc. At this point, local and national media are buying in, saying the Bills are the better team and even calling them a playoff team. The moment all of that hype starts they go out in front of a national audience and just get embarrassed. I was hoping for a fluke, thinking maybe they were just physically beat, didn't have enough time to prepare like they usually do, etc. But that began one of the worst three-game skids in team history.
On paper, this team shouldn't have won more than 4 or 5 games total. The fact that they've overachieved given the massive roster overhaul and the new coaching staff is (hopefully) a positive sign for the future. Now that everything is in place for the organization to have a full off-season together it's exciting to see where they go.
Excellent post -- well done.
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1 hour ago, transplantbillsfan said:
I can't believe you guys care about arguing this at this point.
Is there a single poster who thinks we aren't inevitably hunting for a future Franchise QB this offseason? If this year isn't Tyrod's last year in Buffalo, next year will be.
The OP is just massively over compensating here, though.
Tyrod is not bad, unless your definition of "bad" is a QB who can fall anywhere in the 15-25 range as an NFL starter depending on the situation but is simply not a top 10 Franchise QB.
If that's what that Big Dingus means by "bad," then sure.
But what's the point? Upset that we're sniffing the playoffs with Taylor at the helm when half of you who are currently piling it on are on record that we would NEVER make the playoffs with Tyrod Taylor as our QB? Does it really upset that we're this close to the playoffs and that part of that actually is because of Tyrod Taylor's play, despite all these preemptive efforts by the OP to argue otherwise and how adamantly some of you are trying to deny that simple fact?
Don't worry guys, if we make the playoffs, Taylor can get some credit for being the first Bills QB to lead the team to the playoffs since 1999 AND we can still eagerly and thoroughly discuss who we'll draft or acquire this offseason as our future Franchise QB to replace him will be
This is actually what I am arguing.
Taylor is not a 15-25 QB.He's actually more of a 30-35 QB: a barely functional starter, but would be an absolutely invaluable asset as a #2 for a contender with an actual QB. If you need someone to hold down the fort for 2-4 games, then Taylor is THE guy.
But for 16 games? Forget it.
The Bills are in this position 100% despite the play of Tyrod Taylor. With an even marginally competent passing offense, they would most likely already have a playoff spot locked up.
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4 hours ago, BADOLBILZ said:
The Patriots are a hell of a standard to be held too when people like you thought the team was going to win 4 games.
I believe in doing what it takes to win games with the personnel you have.
I hate Jauron Ball........but once they traded Watkins that was their only option. I realized that.......knew it was coming........caught some of you by surprise but that's a given.
Btw I believe Weo posted the numbers yesterday........the Bills aren't particularly high in the league in 3 and outs and they are pretty good vs. the field at converting 3rd downs..........those usually precede punts, correct?
I know the goal posts have to stay mobile though so keep shifting them so you can have a definitive reason to focus the Bills mediocrity on 1 or 2 players when the roster is more holes than patch.
It's close to that.......it was up to 1-35 or something early in the year.........Rodgers added another loss to that tally last week.
It was much referenced and then TT suddenly lead 4th quarter comeback and the goal posts quickly shifted to some other area.
Not sure what you mean about TT being elite in 2015...........what I was referencing is Taylor's numbers with both Watkins and Woods healthy in 2015 AND 2016.
They've been quoted enough times by Bandit that you'd have to be willfully ignoring them to not have known this.
Either way..........it doesn't matter to you guys........TT could have a max passer rating and 30 TD's and zero pics passing to them but those times he didn't excel with Brandon Tate as his #1 or #2 option........those really tell the story for ya'!
Well color me "surprised". Totally had you pegged as a Jauron-Ball kind of guy.
You're being deliberately obtuse here. I, along with the other anti-Taylor's, would be ecstatic if the guy would consistently hit a receiver in stride or maybe had the passing offense ranked somewhere in the mid-teens rather than dead last. It's not exactly a high bar for performance around here, and Taylor has somehow managed to lower those expectations even further by making Kyle Orton look like Peyton Manning.
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13 minutes ago, joesixpack said:
I'm of the belief that absolutely NOTHING else matters in the NFL if you don't have a QB, and a pocket QB at that.
there's nothing wrong with SOME mobility, but when it's your only real asset, that's a problem.
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8 minutes ago, McNubbins said:
I'm not even going to quote your own personal biases, I was simply pointing out that Bills fans are always in love with the "other" guy. Lots of folks act like TT is the worst QB to ever play the game, fail to give him credit for games he won for us, and don't seem to understand that there are teams that would be happy to have him (Broncos, anyone?). Is he great? No. Is he the future of the franchise? No. However, as I've said, he's the best we have right now.1. He's not the worst to ever play the game. Just one of the worst currently playing the game.
2. Can't think of one game. Maybe the Dolphins game a week ago? Care to elaborate?3. That's why he took a pay cut to come back to Buffalo, right? So many options out there!
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8 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:
How bout some perspective?
The Bills get a lead and play to punt the ball. That's McDermotts strategy. Get a lead and play Jauron ball.
Easy to look at the stats sheet and say "see, look at the lack of TDs by Tyrod in the 2nd half".... At the same time the run, run, pass, punt offense(sometimes run, run, run, punt offense) when the Bills are leading in the second half NO MATTER HOW LARGE A LEAD from McJauron is Tyrods fault too apparently.
Maybe they play like that due to an inability of the QB to consistently generate any sort of offense, so the only option is to try and run out the clock. Ever consider that?
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5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:
The Patriots are a hell of a standard to be held too when people like you thought the team was going to win 4 games.
I believe in doing what it takes to win games with the personnel you have.
I hate Jauron Ball........but once they traded Watkins that was their only option. I realized that.......knew it was coming........caught some of you by surprise but that's a given.
Btw I believe Weo posted the numbers yesterday........the Bills aren't particularly high in the league in 3 and outs and they are pretty good vs. the field at converting 3rd downs..........those usually precede punts, correct?
I know the goal posts have to stay mobile though so keep shifting them so you can have a definitive reason to focus the Bills mediocrity on 1 or 2 players when the roster is more holes than patch.
That's fair, I agree that the Patriots can be a bit of a tough bar to clear.
How about the Chiefs, then? Well.... they've punted the ball away 15 times less than the Bills have.
Steelers? Same thing, 15 less than the Bills.
Rams? 58 punts to the Bills 75.
Maybe the Falcons? They actually lead the league in fewest punts at only 48.
The point is that there is WAY too much focus on how rarely Tyrod has thrown INTs as a starter. How about looking at how rarely the offense scores a TD with him as the QB? That to me is a much more important statistic.
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3 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:
Isn't Aaron Rodgers record up to 1-40 when entering the 4th quarter trailing by more than 1 point now...........you'd really hate having THAT guy if that's your chief criteria.
There are stats that really indicate team success..........comebacks are not high on the list.........not turning the ball over, scoring first........things like that mean a lot more.
I think desiring late game heroics is part of the "damsel in distress" nature that Bills fans have adopted..........I want a QB/team that goes into the 4th quarter with a lead and holds onto it.
You are a big "need to run and stop the run" kind of guy, I'd imagine.
Field position! Three yards and a cloud of dust!
Not turning the ball over is great -- except when you punt the ball away 25 times more throughout the year than a team like the Patriots.
Let's say it again for the kids in the back: The Bills have given the ball away to their opponent 25 times more than the Patriots.
A punt is just a less dramatic turnover. The end result is the same, the other team has the ball and you don't.
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5 minutes ago, BADOLBILZ said:
Again:
Taylor's production was elite with Watkins and Woods healthy.
Are we clear on that yet?
And btw tell me again how you knew Goodwin had this kind of season in him.
When I was the lone-wolf propping Goodwins exceptional talent here on TSW I was mocked and told he was just a more injury prone TJ Graham.
Do you think everyone here on TSW would have been SO ACCOMMODATING of Goodwin blowing off the Bills for basically 3 seasons as he prepped for the 2016 Olympics if they knew he had this kind of potential as a WR? I think not!
You're apparently not.
Taylor's production with Woods & Watkins was good. It was never elite.
Nothing about Tyrod's game is/was/has ever been elite.
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1 hour ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
Nice way to not answer the question. 60 catches for 1047 yards with 9 TDs. Pretty lousy huh?
Relative to other "stud" WRs, 60 catches isn't exactly "great" either.
Odell's numbers: 91-1305-12, 96-1450-13, 101-1376-10.
As a side note, in only 4 games this year OBJ's stat line is 25-302-3 on 41 targets from a starting QB who was also benched this season.
Zay Jones, Jordan Matthews, and Deonte Thompson also have 25 receptions.
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8 minutes ago, Billsfan1972 said:
Yea and Brady missed a # of passes too on Sunday. Maybe he too should be cut????
If you hate Tyrod little he does will impress you and you will nitpick everything.
When you know as soon as the Bills line-up the play call, you just shake your head in disbelief.
I actually really like Tyrod. I think he's the consummate professional athlete, not to mention easily one of the most stylish guys around.
It's unfortunate that there is very little in his game that impresses me. Pointing out that he is the QB of the worst passing offense in football is not "nitpicking".
Also, bringing up Tom Brady is beyond ridiculous. For every one pass Tommy Boy misses, there are at least a dozen that are on the money, perfect throws. Taylor doesn't even play the same sport as Tom Brady.
I am a firm believer that the play calling is severely hindered by having a bottom 3 starting QB running the show.
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24 minutes ago, ScottLaw said:
Pretty much how I saw it.... but most fans here would have you believe Tyrod is the worst QB in the league and all the Bills need to do is replace him.... these are the same fans that wanted Trevor Simeon in the offseason.?
I'm all for an upgrade. I've said take a first round QB for the past couple years now, but Bills pass every year..... UNTIL THEY HAVE A BETTER OPTION, take advantage of what Tyrod does best and design an offense around him. McDermott did the opposite.
He is. The Bills have the 32nd ranked passing offense in the league.
Taylor is statistically the worst starting QB in football when it comes to throwing the football.
An offense specifically suited to Taylor is the exact opposite of what is successful in the modern NFL. Professional defenses are too fast, too strong.
So, you could design an offense around his strengths -- lots of read option, designed QB runs, and even fewer passing attempts. You would also lose every game by three touchdowns.
You could probably make a run at the Section VI AA title, though.
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16 hours ago, Chicharito said:
Truth be told unless this o-line gets fixed the only qb's in the league that could survive are cam newton and tyrod. They can evade the rush. Alex smith would be like a turtle on his back!
The fastest and most effective way of fixing the offensive line is to get a QB that can read a defense pre-snap, make a decision, and deliver the ball quickly and accurately to the receiver. If the ball is consistently gone in under 3 seconds, the incoming pass rush generally doesn't matter.
Tyrod actually makes offensive lines look worse than they really are because of his shortcomings as a passer and his "wheels". Lineman are under pressure to block longer and also they are never really sure where the QB is going to be or where the play is going.
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11 minutes ago, Thurman#1 said:
Please.
I inserted the bold text in your post above.
Fitzy's in Tyrod's neighborhood. Both below average. Both tempting enough to make coaches think they can fix him and thus getting chances (I'm assuming in Tyrod's case) when better options aren't available.
But Tyrod's better than Fitzy. That's not saying much.
I agree, both guys are in the same group -- the delusional "We can win with this guy" tier.
However, the question was who was better for the Bills in the drought-era? To me, it came down to the two primary responsibility for a QB -- throwing the football and running a functional offense. Fitzpatrick is a much better passer than Tyrod, so to me, he gets the edge. He was at least capable of bringing a team back from behind once in awhile. He went throw-for-throw with Brady once, which is one time more than Taylor.
Fitzpatrick's fatal flaw was too many turnovers.
Tyrod's fatal flaw is an inability to play the position at the most fundamental level.
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17 hours ago, McBean said:
I hope none of this is true.
What I would give to have a HC that stood up at the podium and said, “We want to score 100 on the opponent. That’s the goal. We’ll pass it 1,000 times a game if we have to. This is 2017 not 1930 the game has changed folks.”
So tired of the conservative BS with McDermott.
Preach!
It must be awesome to be a Rams fan right about now.
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6 hours ago, reddogblitz said:
Okay, make one for Fitz.
3000 yards in 13 games in 2010, 3800 yards in 2011. Averaged 230 per game in 2010 & 2011. Had 7 300+ yard passing days in 4 years.
Brought the Bills back from down 21-0 against the Patriots, threw for 369 yards and 2 TDs in that game.
However, he did have a LOADED WR corps of Stevie Johnson, Donald Jones, Brad Smith, David Nelson, and Naaman Roosevelt. Also, Scott Chandler at TE.
Imagine if Tyrod had weapons like THAT.
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On 12/24/2017 at 8:52 AM, PeterGriffin said:
sarcsm?
That was Tyrod that fumbled and it was returned for a TD, not Peterman.
Yes, sarcasm.
Comprehensive "Tyrod Taylor is Bad" Thread (VERY Comprehensive)
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by twoandfourteen
I can't believe I'm actually going to suggest this, but after reading all of this crap and thinking about it.... Fitzy might be the best guy to bring in here to work with both Peterman and the new kid they draft in April. He's on a 1 year deal with Tampa Bay, so won't cost anything to sign him as a FA.
The guy definitely has the football IQ down and had a bit of "gunslinger" in him. He just didn't have all of the physical tools to successfully execute what he was seeing.
His numbers were actually ok for a backup, 1103 yards/7TDs/3INTs/86.0 QBR and averaged 183.8 yards per game in 6 games, 3 as the starter (2-1).