twoandfourteen
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Posts posted by twoandfourteen
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1 hour ago, BADOLBILZ said:
Teams adapted entirely to Tyrod with film study in the offseason after 2015..............but opposing defenses just didn't have the courage to leave the deep ball open in 2016 like they have had this year.........and that courage is courtesy of the lack of deep threat presence from the x and z receivers the Bills have trotted out to play outside the hashes.
If you can stretch the field vertically and at the same time limit the aggressiveness of the pass rush you have a very tough offense to defend. You can't take both away.......you are left vulnerable somewhere defensively.
The Bills had that.........they traded it in for a dink-and-dunk WCO type approach.
As NFL Films/NFL matchups Greg Cosell put it on WGR today, the Bills are an "execution based" offense now and while he can do that at times(see the 16 play drive to start the Pats game) that's not really Tyrod's game.
A Taylor offense needs to be about big plays to be really good(like in 2015 and 2016 when they lead the NFL in them).
Let's not shortchange Peterman.
Yes, he threw 5 interceptions.
But he also fumbled once........and then threw what should have been a pick-6 on the one drive that they punted.
There will probably NEVER be a performance that bad by an NFL QB ever again...........that is the new GOLD STANDARD for a badly QB'd game in the NFL.
4 hours ago, BuffaloHokie13 said:My main critique is that he dove like an idiot and got himself concussed. He threw 10 passes, mostly because of the weather (I think Tyrod threw like 25 in the entire Pittsburgh game), and our only successful drive that people seem to be toting was set up by back to back 20+ yard runs by McCoy (just like our OT score). Unlike some of your fond memories, his 5 incompletions were not all on the WRs, but 2 were. At the end of the day you simply cannot say he had a good outing and point to a 50% completion 57 yard passing day. You do realize that just because something isn't good it doesn't mean it's awful though, right? I have a hard time believing that anyone with football knowledge watched the Colts game and came away saying "Oh man, Peterman had a good game today!".
There are at least 26-28 QBs that are better than Tyrod Taylor currently in the NFL, not to mention another 5 or 6 (including Peterman) that have higher ceilings and the potential to pass him in the next year.
Doesn't it tell you something when you spend your time defending Taylor against guys like Josh McCown or a rookie drafted in the 5th round? Doesn't that tell you about the class of player that TT belongs in? No one ever talks about "Who's better? Taylor or Jimmy Garappolo?" or "Who's better? Taylor or Derek Carr?" or "Taylor or DeShaun Watson?"
The reason is that you can't legitimately make a case for Taylor against any of those guys -- never mind the real elite guys Iike Brady, Brees, Ben, etc.
As a QB, TT is defined by the things he doesn't do: he doesn't throw INTs, he doesn't read defenses, he doesn't score very many TDs.
I'll gladly accept 10 more INTs if it means another 1000 yards passing and 15 more TDs.
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5 minutes ago, Charlottebillsfan2 said:
I think we get a fifth or sixth for him, I'm actually thinking the Bills are about to make a serious run at Cousins. I do not see the Skins Franchising him again. Cousins and Peterman as a back looks pretty legit to me. You load up on the oline and dline with the draft picks and look out!
While not my first choice, I'd be pretty happy going into next year with this scenario.
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8 hours ago, Big C said:
Teams with a loaded roster outside of QB could look at Tyrod. Jaguars or Broncos likely options. Wouldn't fetch much but he is a guy a team can with with when the defense is sturdy and receivers can separate. I know everyone is quick to dismiss him because he isn't able to single-handedly win games for us, but he is an NFL talent. If our defense in 2015 was anywhere near the 2014 team Rex inherited we would have been a playoff team for sure.
Why would the Jaguars take a downgrade at QB?
Or is it to backup Bortles? Because that would be pretty smart, actually.
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6 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:
McCown is not better than Taylor
But look at what Josh McCown did with horrible defenses and no weapons!!!!!!!!!! He played for the Cleveland Browns & The NY Jets!!!! They are jokes!!!!
If the Jets just gave him a good defense and some real WRs he'd be great!!!!!!!!!
Do you see what I've been trying to get through to you here?
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3 hours ago, section122 said:
I give you credit for actually answering. (serious no sarcasm)
I take issue with Flacco (worse than TT since 15), Dalton (worse that TT since 2015), Palmer (old), Cutler, Brissett (what? please explain), Bradford (can't stay healthy), Mariota (bad this year), Bridgewater (TT light coming off of major injury another I'd like you to tell me why), Eli (it's all over for him)
So that puts him around 20th for me give or take. Same place he was at the beginning of the year. I appreciate the discussion. I'd be happy to debate the guys I've listed here so give it a shot. How are the guys I listed better than Tyrod? In what ways? Is there anything he is better at than them in your opinion?
I just realized I accidentally left Watson of the list.
This list is predicated on the fact that this is a passing league -- 300 yards doesn't really mean as much as it used to, and the top guys are occasionally hitting 450-500 in a game. Now, it's not fair to expect 300-500 yards on a regular basis, but you have to have a QB that has a game or two like that somewhere in his bag to at least stand a chance against the big guys.
Flacco & Eli - The criteria here was "If I have one game against Brady, who would I want under center?" These two guys have done it, are still capable of going for 350+ on rare occasion, can read defenses and run a passing attack at a much higher level than Taylor.
Palmer/Cutler/Bradford - The only case I can make for them is that they are much better pure passers and that success in the NFL is contingent on throwing the ball. I could see knocking them down though because of Taylor's age and intangibles at the position. These three could go either way, I don't really care. Bradford is probably an upgrade over TT, though.
Brissett/Bridgewater/Mariota -- Younger guys who have shown that they have higher ceilings than Taylor, especially in the passing game. If I'm a GM, I go with any of these guys over TT and take a shot at the upside.
In fact, the more I think about it... really the only thing keeping Taylor out of the "Osweiler/Savage/Yates" group is that Taylor is much smarter than them, he doesn't blow up in any spectacular fashion. He understands his limitations and works it better. He still costs you games in the end, though. It's just not due to dramatic INTs or some sort of "C'mon Man!" highlight.
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4 minutes ago, section122 said:
You can't call him the 30-35th best qb when no numbers back that up. You can't call him a backup at best when there aren't 32 better players than him at the position. Brian freaking Hoyer was a week 1 starter this year!
In no particular order:
Brady
Brees
Rogers
Ben
Rivers
Ryan
Wilson
Wentz
Goff
Stafford
Luck
Cousins
Smith
Garappolo
Newton
Bortles
Dalton
Carr
Bridgewater
Manning
McCown
Keenum
Flacco
Brissett
Prescott
Mariota
Bradford
There are 27. Is that close enough for you?
Palmer
Cutler
Those two don't really count, since they are pretty much done. But they get us to 29.
Then there's Tyrod at either 28 or 30, depending on how you look at Carson and Smokin' Jay.
Now we get to the rookies. Tyrod is probably better at the moment, but who knows where they end up in the future. Beathard has already had better single game passing production with a garbage 49'ers WR group, but that could just be an anomaly.
Trubisky
Kizer
Beathard
Garbage men:
Glennon
Osweiler
Savage
Yates
etc
etc
etc.
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33 minutes ago, reddogblitz said:
Do you think any of this has to do with the kind of offense each plays in and their coaches philosophy and the plays being called?
McVay (who I swear looks like a boy band singer) is very pass oriented with a good QB. Our team has been run first and play good D (at least that's the idea) in part because we don't have a QB that can run McVay's offense. Or WRs for that matter.
I would imagine an offensive coordinator's approach and play-calling options are greatly enhanced (Brady/McDaniels) or severely limited (Taylor/Take your pick) by the ability of the player running the offense every play.
We need to find that guy and stop pretending that our current guy who can't do any of those things is just outside the top tier of QBs in the league.
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1 minute ago, jmc12290 said:
That's terrible.
1st and ten becoming 2nd and 15.67 is a drive killer in this offense.
1st & 10 becoming 2nd & 10 is also generally a punt waiting to happen for this team.
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2 hours ago, Stank_Nasty said:
are you seriously arguing that the bills defense has been good as a whole this year? becuz if you are that tells me all I need to know about you. speaks volumes. nothing left to talk about.
oh my god.... you are horrible dude.... freaking horrible.
he's won that the last 3 years with defenses that ARENT EVEN CLOSE TO WHAT MINNESOTA HAS.... you cant be this simple.
i'm done talking with you becuz this is a whole new type of ignorant.
First of all, my original position in all of this was that based solely on ability to play the position of QB, Taylor ranks somewhere in the 30-35 range across the league.
At some point, #TeamTyrod started to bring in all of this ancillary stuff -- such as various NFL defenses -- to defend their boy, because there is nothing else to rationally argue.
And yes, the Bills defense has played some great games this year and has had some very bad moments this year. Front 7 needs some work. But on the whole, at least it's trending in the right direction. Most of all though, it is pretty much irrelevant to the original argument. So, stop deflecting and just admit that Taylor is better suited for a backup QB role.
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1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:
are you seriously arguing that the bills defense has been good as a whole this year? becuz if you are that tells me all I need to know about you. speaks volumes. nothing left to talk about.
So, timely defensive TDs against Atlanta & New England... holding Carolina to 9 points... only allowing 1 TD pass to Tom Brady... that's not a good defense?
If anything, they've been hung out to dry by the dysfunctional Ty-gun Offense.
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1 minute ago, Stank_Nasty said:
well... i'm not. its getting twisted that way by awful posters. my argument was there is about 20-25 qb's in the league that could win games on that team. too which I was told taylor couldn't..... now correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't taylor have a winning record with 3 years worth of sub-par defenses? how exactly would he win less in Minnesota?
Tyrod Taylor could definitely win with Minnesota's defense.
Probably 7 to 9 games, depending on how many TD's the defense can pitch in.
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Just now, jmc12290 said:
Some folks are really arguing that Taylor is better than Keenum in 2017?
wowzer.
Yes, apparently the Minnesota defense is the reason Keenum has put up far better passing numbers than Tyrod Taylor. -
5 minutes ago, Stank_Nasty said:
this is beyond stupid.... taylor has a winning record with a defense that's not even half as good as minnesotas..... do you even come close to thinking before you type?
I hate even going to bat for taylor anymore but stuff like this is just so dumb.
You mean that Bills defense that singlehandedly won the Atlanta game, held Carolina to 9 points, slowed down (relatively speaking) Tom Brady, and owned Alex Smith? That Bills defense that has pro-bowl caliber DBs starting at nearly every position?
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Just now, 26CornerBlitz said:
Did I post that? We're comparing the QB you mentioned who's benefiting from playing with a very good team that features a great D and an excellent arsenal in Kyle Rudpolh at TE with Adam Thielen and Stephon Diggs at WR.
And he's having a better season than Taylor did when he had Sammy Watkins, Robert Woods, Chris Hogan, Charles Clay, and LeSean McCoy.
Taylor isn't a Top 10 QB. He's not a Top 20 QB. He's somewhere in the 30-35 range, clearly behind backup/fringe starters like Josh McCown and Case Keenum.
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2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
Taylor's career as a passer:
Keenum's career as a passer:
Try again.
So, now I'm confused. Is this supposed to convince me that Tyrod is a top 10 QB in the NFL or something?
Because I see two guys who are both 1 game over .500.
Keenum is also a more productive QB.... 45 TDs in 40 games, 214.6 yds/gm career average.... Taylor has 50 TDs in 57 games, 201.2 yds/gm average as a starter (I'll even omit the oddball numbers that drag him down, even though I did include those for Keenum.)
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3 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
Tell him I said hello.
Looks like a backup QB with a winning record over an extended number of games.
What's your point?
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4 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
As expected, you have nothing but BS.
You asked, I answered.
By the way, 3rd-stringer Case Keenum says "what's up?".
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22 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
I'm strictly talking about just this season alone. Backup QBs in the NFL make quite a few mistakes to lose their teams games when they play on an extended basis so you again offer a weak argument that doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Show just one example of a backup QB who has a winning record for any extended number of games. I'll be waiting.
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2 minutes ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
This is so full of nonsensical fallacies with the Bills coming back from a 27-20 deficit against TB to win 30- 27. The Bills run game struggled in several wins this season with Tyrod making key throws to help the Bills win (See the Denver and Atlanta games). You continue to make posts full of declarative bluster and opinion that are easily refuted by the facts of what occurred in actual game play.
Three seasons full of games. 42 starts.
This is the best you've got?
Tyrod's "key throws" didn't win the Atlanta game. A "key" fumble recovery run back for a TD by the defense won that game.
Tyrod did throw a 6 yard TD to Charles Clay in the 3rd Q against Denver, so full marks for that. It sure helped that the Bills defense came up with 2 INTs and 2 turnover-on-downs on Denver's last 4 offensive drives in the 2nd half, though. But Taylor did do his job.
I'd also give him full credit for the TB game -- hitting Deonte Thompson for 44 to set up McCoy was a big play. One of the few clutch throws he's connected on in his career as a starter, but still a great toss.
Those wins are exactly the type of wins you would want from an elite backup QB.
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7 hours ago, transplantbillsfan said:
It's just funny how some here are legitimately saying Taylor's the 30-35th best QB in the NFL.
I want to upgrade, but Taylor's been a welcome surprise in his time in Buffalo.
That's exactly where he fits.
Can't bring a team back from any sort of deficit. Can't run a modern passing offense. Needs literally EVERYTHING to go right in the running game, on defense, and on special teams for his team to pull out a win. Doesn't turn the ball over. Can run for the occasional first down to extend a drive or get into FG range. Excellent in the locker room and in the film room.
Sounds like the ideal backup QB.
Or, 30-35th at the position in the NFL.
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57 minutes ago, Bills Pimpin' said:
Tyrod Taylor will go from the worst starting QB to the best backup QB in the league in 2018 if he will accept that role. Unfortunately I do not think it can be for the Bills.
I don't really want Taylor in that "mentor" role -- as far as learning how to be a professional, film study, diligence, commitment, etc... he'd be perfect in that regard, there is no question about that. I really like Tyrod as an individual and as a pro. It doesn't get much better than him.
The problem is that his overall game relies primarily on things that athletically only he is capable of, and his perspective on the passing game is severely limited by the fundamental things he can't do. I just don't think he'd be a very good candidate to teach a rookie how to run a high-powered passing attack. -
4 hours ago, ColoradoBills said:
I can't believe it either.
I don't want him to start, or ever really see the field. But as a backup/mentor, maybe? I can't think of any other vet that I would like to see work with the new QBs.
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15 minutes ago, njbuff said:
The Giants are believed to love Davis Webb and the Giants beat reporter for WFAN radio says they might wanna trade down cause they need a lot of help.
Now, the Bills are believed to be in love with Darnold.
Assuming all of the above is true...........
Are you willing to trade with the Giants?
I would do something like this.........,..
Both 2018 1st round picks, 2019 1st, 2019 2nd and another pick or player of the Giants choosing.
Is this doable?
Would you do this?
Or what would you do?
Also assuming Cleveland takes Rosen.
Yes. Right now. Where do I sign?
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5 minutes ago, transplantbillsfan said:
Re McCown: No, it's not the same thing. It's not the same thing because (and this is going to upset some of you) McCown is not as good or as consistentor as consistent a QB as Taylor.
This is just not true. At least, statistically speaking.
Just looking at the three years Taylor has been a starter -- McCown has put up better passing numbers, and that was while playing in the with three-ring circuses known as the Cleveland Browns & NY Jets.
This year, JMcC has 18 TD passes in 13 games. How about Tyrod? 13 TDs in 14 games. Must be all those weapons McCown has in NY, right?
Passing yards? JMcC's lowest yds/gm is still better than Tyrod's best.
Oh, and McCown has more rushing TDs this year.
Friendly reminder: Turnover differential is King
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Whoa, whoa, whoa.... easy there, boys. Let's stay focused on what's really important here.
Listen, the Bills might be nearly 200 points behind the Rams in scoring, but they also have 3 LESS turnovers. Take away NOT-READY-NATE PICKERMAN'S 5 INTs and that's 8!
So what if the Patriots have scored 150 more points and have punted 25 less times than the Bills? Without the Natetorious I.N.T's 5 spot against the Chargers, the Bills would have 11 turnovers -- that is 1 less than Tommy & the Cheatahs!
Oh, and that doesn't even include Tyrod's rushing yards!