Rochesterfan
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Posts posted by Rochesterfan
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Now I wish this was a poll - finally I see the majority of Bills fans agree on something- I am so proud.
Brandon Spikes - bringing Bills fans together - very slowly - lol.
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Tyrod has a unique skillset and it causes people to go to extremes on their opinions of him.
I think it's pretty clear that Tyrod is a QB with a very different skillset than the traditional NFL QB. I believe he can be successful if you put him in the right scheme with the right talent, which is exactly what the Bills did last year to get to an offense that actually produced decent points. The problem is for his skillset to work in the NFL it has to be a run-first offense with limited passing reads, which is why it tends to fail during two-minute type situations.
Tyrod can throw a pretty ball, but he can really only read half the field with a couple progressions. He's just not going to be the type of guy who can go through quick progressions across 4-5 receivers so it greatly limits the type of offense you can run to be successful.
I agree with this, but I think the extremes come from the nature of everyone now - he is .500 as a starter and should be down the middle, but there seems to be a growing group on both sides that push their agenda.
The truth as is typical lies in the middle - there are things he can do and things he cannot do as you stated. I think Roman set him up in an offense that played to his strengths in year 1, but when Roman tried to expand him as a QB in year 2 he faltered and Lynn returned to the compressed playbook to get him through and try to win.
I get the feeling Dennison is not going to do that because the new staff is not interested in TT as a QB - they want to grow and develop a particular offense and if TT shows he can not do it - they will play Peterman and either way they are drafting a guy next year to develop.
There has always been extremes when dealing with the Bills QBs going back to the 60, but the fringe extremes have a way to really voice their thoughts on both sides making those in the middle stay quieter.
2 votes for Yates?
Give it time he is catching up - by the end of the season maybe he wins - LOL
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Fig, you were a bigger TT "homer" than me. You were predicting a breakout year for Taylor. I'm surprised (and a little disappointed) you and so many others are honestly putting so much stock in preseason.
One thing I've learned over the years... who cares about preseason?!
I don't think we've seen much of the offense Dennison has in store for week 1.
Start overreacting after week 1. Who really cares right now?
Although I hear what you are saying - I do not totally agree.
Who cares about pre-season - well a lot of players care about preseason - it is not the wins and losses, but it is about developing chemistry and timing with teammates.
As I recall last year TT lack of preseason was a big reason everyone said he started slow against Baltimore, but this year with him struggling it is no big deal. 2 years ago TTs play was enough to win him the starting job. - so yes preseason does seem to matter - especially as you are trying to employ new concepts as the Bills are this year.
I will agree that we have not seen all of the Dennison offense, but the plays we are running are a part of that offense. The WRs are running the same routes they will be running. The 3&5 steps drops are also a staple. Yes we will see more roll outs, but if you do not think the fact that TT is completing 48% with 2 ints and a fumble with the vanilla portion of the offense - I am not sure what to tell you.
What you are seeing from TT in this easy part of the offense should concern you. If he was just off with his receivers it would be one thing, but he is not making great reads and he is not throwing with anticipation - he is throwing again to guys after they break and present themselves as open.
It was especially clear on the play against Baltimore where TT was hurt. He was in the shotgun (not under center) and took a 3 step drop. There was a pocket around him and you can see Clay break open at the 30 for a first down between the hash and the numbers, but TT does not throw it. Instead he pulls it down and tries to escape the pocket - needless. That play has me more worried than anything because it was early in a game the coaches said they did some game planning for and it was a well designed and set-up play. The only issue is the QB did not pull the trigger and it causes him to take a couple of hits and a slam down that causes additional missed time.
This is the only chance these guys are going to get to be ready to play the NYJs and TT goes 14/29 (48%) with 0 TDs - 2ints and a fumble and the Bills got 3 points in his drives this year. Yes I am scared. I still think you start him if healthy, but man you have to keep the leash short because even though Peterman needs more time - the things he can do have already shown to be better.
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1. Peterman is completing 50% of his passes...that is TEBOW-esque.
2. I do LIKE Peterman as a prospect, and the WORST way to develop a kid who isn't ready is to throw him to the wolves. Everyone here who wants him to start either hates the kid or doesn't understand how to develop a QB.
3. We have one of, if not the worst, offensive line in terms of pass protection in football right now. Another reason putting him out there too early could just set the kid back.
I swear, its like the fan base here has had their head in the sand for 17 years. Serious question: HOW MANY TIMES DO THE BILLS NEED TO RUIN THE DEVELOPMENT OF A YOUNG QB BEFORE YOU PEOPLE REALIZE ITS THE WRONG WAY TO DO IT?
Putting a young QB out there who isn't quite ready behind a bad offensive line is a TERRIBLE...and I mean TERRIBLE tactic to develop him. There is NO REASON to start him over Taylor, not one. It changes nothing for us.
And most important, Taylor has already been named the starter Week 1, so this poll is a dead thread and completely pointless. I do think that if Taylor and the offense continue to struggle into the season, that Peterman WILL and SHOULD get a chance to take over and showcase what he may or may not be the rest of the season. HOWEVER, there is ZERO chance that is week 1. Not guessing, but literal ZERO chance as McD already stated with a shadow of a doubt that TT is the starter entering the regular season.
So what is the correct way to develop a QB?
We had Collins and Losman - both sat a year before getting to start - did not develop.
We had Edwards and Manual - started as Rookies - did not develop.
Across the league - you had guys like Manning in the past and Prescott/Wilson start as rookies and develop and guys like Brady and Rodgers take a year or more and develop.
Cleveland has had a ton of picks some starting right away and some sitting and they have not developed.
I believe - if a guy is a fit in the system - playing him will develop him faster than sitting him. I think sitting a player will produce a more consistent player when they actually start, but it does not aid in development.
The key is the guy has to be a player. Sitting and starting has never been a factor as far as I can tell - both systems work and former NFL QBs have Pros and Cons of both. If the Bills feel he is the better player - there is no reason not to start him. If the Bills feel TT gives them the best chance at the moment - then you start him.
Everything you state is your opinion - I would love to see the facts that back it up.
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interesting. I didn't see it but from you description it a easy to see tt doing exactly what you describe. Three step drip the ball has to get out.
This play is available in the video section of NFL.com - in the game review.
I think it will be more damning from the All-22, but you can see the play any time.
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Hmm. Interesting. I thought his man was one of the two who got to Tyrod on the play that he got hurt. Will go back and look when the all 22 comes out
It was Suggs from Dawkins, but both Dawkins and Mills had their guys controlled when TT should of passed the ball.
The issue was TT pulls the ball down and because Mills is being driven back - he tries to step up and toward Suggs, but Suggs had pushed Dawkins back and was just begin his under move - right to where TT decided to go.
It TT either steps back further or throws the ball on time - there is no issue.
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If that was a dress rehearsal for the regular season it left us with more questions than answers! Here are my takeaways....
Good Night for......
Starting secondary - I mentioned Jordan Poyer last week and he was pretty impressive again. Micah Hyde showed up with a couple of good plays too, including one where he ended up defending a receiver in the open field 1 on 1 which shows his versatility as a guy who can play corner. There was also some encouraging play from Shareece Wright on the outside and EJ Gaines showed well later in the game too.
Charles Clay - Charles Clay gets open a lot. Once Nathan Peterman was in the game the Bills began to use the middle of the field more. This offense has a history of featuring Tight Ends.... if the Quarterbacks are willing to look and throw his way he could be in for his biggest year as a Buffalo Bill.
Brandon Reilly - Sean McDermott specifically name checked Reilly and Shorts in the week as two receivers who had an opportunity to make this team. Reilly was the Bills' top receiver on the night and had the single longest reception of the night. In a picture that is increasingly jumbled behind Zay Jones and Jordan Matthews he now seems to have a legitmate shot at making the roster.
Preston Brown - For all the talk about how the switch back to 4-3 would benefit the guys up front nobody's performance has been more transformed by with switch through three pre-season games than Preston Brown. He looks comfortable and as though he understands his responsibilities - something you could struggle to say at any point during the Rex Ryan era. He was the Bills' leading tackler and figures to play a big role this season.
Brandon Tate - Tate has been the leader in the clubhouse for the returner job since the start of camp. He provided more pop than the competition again last night and has quietly had a nice pre-season if not for some needless blocks in the back by his special teams teammates. He would now appear a lock for the roster as the main return man both in the kicking and punting disciplines.
Bad Night for......
Tyrod Taylor - Second week in a row that Tyrod finds himself here though for different reasons. Last night was supposed to be his opportunity to get out there and get in rhythm with the first team offense and that was ended in the second drive when rookie Dion Dawkins and right tackle Jordan Mills both whiffed leaving Tyrod at the mercy of two pass rushers who smashed him to the ground. Even before that Tyrod demonstrated again some uncertainty in getting the ball out on time.... he could really have used the game time exposure.
Marcell Dareus - Darues' inability to get out of his own way and stop hurting this football team is becoming a more and more serious concern. If it is, as some are speculating, purely a timekeeping issue you would expect Beane and McDermott will hope it is lesson learned and put it behind them. If it is something more serious however...... well then all bets are off. The contract makes it hard to cut ties but I do not believe it is totally out of the question if this breach was serious.
First team D-Line - The Bills first team D-Line has dominated against the Eagles and the Vikings. It took a step back against the Ravens. Adolphus Washington is not an adequate replacement for Dareus and without the big man's presence inside the Ravens found running lanes easier to come by than the Bills' two previous opponents and were able to dedicate more attention to doubling the defensive ends in pass protection. The Ravens O-line edged this battle.
Juan Castillo - This is starting to sound a bit like a personal vendetta but there were two things that made me really curse Juan Castillo last night. One was the continued insistence in putting Vlad Ducasse on the field with the first team offensive line. He struggled as much as Jordan Mills (who was downright awful.... I think 3 batted balls were from his man) and it is at the point where McDermott and Dennison need to step in. The second thing that made me curse him was the performance of the Ravens offensive line. Having seen it look a mess for two straight years under his "guidance" to the point where Flacco has taken a beating.... it looked organised, strong and efficient last night. Addition by subtraction? You better believe it.
Andre Holmes - Sammy is gone, Boldin hardly arrived, Streater might be headed to IR and Jordan Matthews is injuried. According to Sal, Holmes had a better week of practice and this game was a really opportunity to make his mark. One catch for 8 yards and very little sign of him being open on other plays from an initial look. You start to question whether his value as a gunner in the coverage teams is really worth his total lack of production on offense given the comp pick consideration.
As usual I look forward to your thoughts TBD....
I agree with some of this, but the play that TT gets hurt on - is all on TT not on the line.
Shotgun snap - 3 step drop - he has a guy (clay I believe) getting open at the 30 between the hash and the numbers. He is at the top of his drop and needs to let it go as Clay is making his break. He has one linebacker and if he throws it on time - it is a completion, a first down, and he is not hurt.
Instead - TT does the same thing he has been criticized for - he pulls the ball down and tries to escape the pocket. He has a nice pocket at the peak of his drop and a player to throw the ball to. That is all on him and that play is part of the reason he struggles. He needs to make that play, but doesn't and then he gets crushed. The O-Line (although an issue) - did their job on that play and the QB let them down.
Look for all of the issues I see with Peterman - that play right there is one that he would have thrown more than likely. It may have gotten batted down as that seems to be an issue, but he gets the ball out on time and to the right guys. I wish his overall accuracy was better, but considering this was the first time going against the #1s and the first time playing with these WRs and TEs - I think he did well and some of the passes that were incomplete were on the receivers and I think they struggled to understand with Petermen the ball is coming on time and Clay especially seemed a bit caught off guard. That caused a couple of drops that maybe with timing - he would not have.
I will say that if Peterman plays - I think the role of the TE goes up dramatically in this offense. He hits both Clay and O'Leary inside and outside the hashes and that opens up other parts of the field.
TT still seems reluctant to throw passes that are not out breaks to the sidelines - his only completion last night- a 1 yard gain right to the sidelines with a very late throw - so the WR had no place to go (Tate right at the OB line). His 2 official incompletions were short Left to Jones and Short Right to Clay. He also had an incompletion short to Tate that did not count because of PI on the defense giving TT his only 1st down in 2 drives.
JMO
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Well I wrote a comment earlier, but decided it was not worth posting - now after game 3 - I will come back to this - I think TT only gets a few starts before finding himself on the bench.
I think he throws for an average of a bit over 1TD a game - so Throws for 10 TDs maybe 3 more running and he is out by the bye week.
Unfortunately I think he may end up finishing the season with some of our division games, but after this year - I think he is gone to be another teams backup - maybe the Rams after Goff struggles in real action.
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Tyrod or Peterman? I really don't see any step back starting Peterman this season. What is Tyrod gonna do any difference come Sept 10th?
I think TT will start the season as the #1 guy, but he sure has not earned it. I am hoping that the next offense will look totally different versus the Jets, but I am not expecting much.
I would have a very short leash for Taylor. I think he is the 2nd best QB and we see most of the excuses everyone makes go out the window tonight. Peterman moved up with the ones with the same OL and didn't look lost or worse than TT so far. He was playing with his 3 different combination of WRs in the last 3 weeks, but that did not seem to impact a lot of timing throws or anticipation as we keep hearing with TT.
Do I think Peterman is great - No, but he uses more of the field and makes throws TT will not make. I think that is part of Clays problems on a few throws - TT would never make a pass to him on an in breaking cut as he is cutting inside the hash - the ball got on and past Clay and I think that is something that the WRs will need to adapt to.
Even before TT was hurt - his attempts were out breaking throws on the sideline and even on the play he was injured - if he threw the ball on time he had a guy that was breaking and would of been open, but he clutched and then tried to run. He needed to throw the ball.
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They both played around the same time. Who is the better QB?
Marino was the better QB - Kelly had the better team and was a better fit.
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I'm probably in the minority, but I think they'll be better with Cutler.
He agree - I think the passing game is going to be more open and they have some pretty good WRs. I think Cutler will make his fair share of mistakes, but I think they will push for the wildcard again this year.
I could be wrong, but I like their coach and the QB fit.
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Dude's getting smoked.
Getting beat both in the passing game and with penalties.
Sure doesn't look as good when he is not playing us - especially after practicing against those receivers all off season.
Here's some truth.....
If Darby was still a Bill, and had a game like he is having tonight, Saturday against Baltimore, then Beane traded him for Matthews and a third on Monday, some would want Beane to be given the NFL Executive of the year award before the season starts.
Yep.
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Maj dont you think its kinda unfair to use that as an example?
I mean....yeah every team would like to have a Tom Brady
JM brought up Brady and talked about consistency and having one of the best o-lines and Edelman every game when neither is true.
Brady of course makes that team and those players better game in and game out. Over the years they have switched O-line and traded players away just before the start of the season much later than Sammy. Heck - they had a converted DB as their #1 WR for a while during this run and it did not matter.
I do not expect TT to be Tom Brady - that would be crazy, but the fact that they moved one guy and played one different guy should not cause the problems you are seeing. Peterman was elevated from playing with the 3 - guys like Ross and into the Twos after Sammy was traded, but his timing and route recognition was fine.
Look Peterman is not ready to start yet as a #1, but running the offense 2 weeks in a row he has shown himself to be as good of a QB as TT and perhaps a better fit for this scheme. I do not think he is ready to supplant TT yet, but the fact that McD had to come out and say it does not bode well for TT.
In the end what bothers me most about TT right now is we are on OC #3 and still the majority of his passes are routes were the WR breaks to the outside boundary and TT can see him or the WR stops and turns around and is waiting for the throw. The same throws he was making last year and the year before. Peterman comes in an hits passes that TT does not attempt. The problem with Peterman is exactly why he went in the 5th round and not the 1st - his accuracy. I think most of his reads have been great and he has had some wonderful throws, but he has also had some ducks and that has been his issue throughout college.
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Truthfully, I know this will sound harsh, but I don't think many of the TT detractors just watch much NFL football outside of the Buffalo Bills.
A lot of the criticisms folks have of Taylor are valid to varying degrees, but usually not nearly to the severity some folks try to push.
I think a lot of times people just run with something someone says in the media as an absolute fact without looking for themselves.
This is just as bad as what you complain about with posters like crusher. You two are made for each other.
You have always started a bunch of threads about TT using exactly what you are complaining about. Look what Cain Fahey decided to post it makes TT sound good - let me start a thread.
The facts remain exactly as they have been for over 2 years now - TT is a very average to below average QB. You have used everything from combining his rushing yards to using rushing attempts to push how many pass attempts TT has, but in the end it is always the same.
TT can make some very limited throws, but he is not good enough to be a long term starter. will he start the season for the Bills - Yes. Will he finish the season for the Bills - Probably Not.
Many of us watch the Bills along with as many other games on Sunday and Monday that we can. Some of us additionally watch other games we taped or have on game pass. I know what a good QB looks like and TT has not been that over 2 seasons as a starter and I do not expect much this year. I didn't before the Sammy trade and I don't now.
But you can take these stupid posts like this and stuff them because in the end - you and Crusher are exactly the same just opposite ends of TT.
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Trading your best young player for a draft pick is some vision.
We have fans have no choice but to wait and see, but this will blow up in their face IMO.
If it does it does, but considering the Bills did not want the 5th year option - I don't think they were planning on having him come back - it is a vision - get something for him rather than letting him go for nothing.
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What a waste of a thread. The GM did exactly as he should- he talked with the HC and the Owner and made the trade.
Since McD was already aware of calls - I am sure he and Beane decided at what point compensation was enough and the Rams finally got there. You finally have a functioning FO and people work hard to make it seem out of step - just crazy.
Fans have been asking for a vision - we get 2 guys with a vision and a plan and then people criticize the plan or act like they do not know what they are doing - just makes no sense to me.
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Trading Tyrod will be proper definition of "tanking". But I don't know if there is much of a market for him. Who's going to give picks for him? Ravens? And what are they going to get in return? Sammy got a 2nd rounder. Darby an elite corner got 3rd rounder. This rookie GM is getting fleeced by old vets. Tyrod might get a 6th rounder. TT is a serviceable QB. Keep him to keep the seat warm until a franchise QB can be drafted and trained.
But, anything's possible.
He needs 2-3 seasons until he can become Kirk Cousins and that's his ceiling. There are good things about him I like. Not right now with that noodle arm. Show me he can drill the ball 30 yards downfield and hit a receiver in stride.
I know your trolling, but Getting a second for a WR is good value - significantly better WRs have been traded for 4th round picks or higher. So the fact that we got a replacement player and a second was fine.
Philadelphia got fleeced - as Darby has been anything but elite and would not have been good in this defense.
I think we got back enough value to justify the trades and the players were sauce on top.
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Peterman has another solid game this Thursday. After the Sammy trade, I don't put anything past the bills front office. I have no doubt if Peterman plays well again on Thursday, they will trade Tyrod, assuming another team is willing.
My guess is they would feel they can get the same production out of Peterman as they can Tyrod, minus the running.
Thoughts?
I think this is a hot take and not even the least bit likely.
I do not think the Front Office thinks that TT is the future at QB, but I think they plan to make use of him for the year and see what happens. Then there are a bunch of FA veterans available and the draft next year and I think they will bring in some QBs to lead this team.
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It's clear we are looking to the future, but maybe they brought Tyrod back so Kyle and Lorenzo would come back and Micah Hyde signs. Also to ensure season ticket sales are high and now that these are accomplished, are we truly gunning for the top pick?
Since the trades did little to impact the season - I think they are still trying to win.
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But you didn't have to pay Watkins a long term deal until after 2018 season. It must be liberating to be so comfortable with continued losing.....
After this year you either needed the the 5th year option or a franchise tag and both only gave you one year at 13 million or more.
Then you would need a long term deal or lose him for nothing. The Bills got something for him.
This is the first thing that has been different - keeping Sammy is the status Quo and the losing - having a vision that we are going to try and get a franchise QB and some players around him that is new. Will it work? We need to see, but you comfortable with losing would be to maintain the same old stuff with a guy that has brought them no where.
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Giants? Younger Manning's window is closing and they've made moves to help him out in his last few years.
Philly? A good young QB, brought in a bunch of WRs and shipped out butterfingers to address drops while shoring up their backend in D.
Steelers? I got a sense big ben will be hanging it up shortly. They got a dynamic O and stout D. Can they pull a good year together?
Raiders with Marshawn? I got insomnia so I could stay up and watch them.
Dallas has Dak and drama.
I guess I'll be watching a lot of NFC East. How about you?
Considering I don't think anything they did changed the output for this year - I will say the Bills
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Since this is all about being on the record:
1. I hate the Watkins trade. If the 2018 draft were today, would you not spend a first (late first at worst) to draft a 24 year old Sammy Watkins. What future are we planning for when you trade that guy? I don't get it at all. He'll be special and this trade will be 'bad' down the road.
2. I liked the Darby trade. I think in our current D (assuming our front four is as advertised) allows for more pedestrian corner play. Even if we did not acquire Gaines, I have no beef trading a 'solid' starter in Darby for a 'solid' starter in Matthews....plus a pick.
As a final image, I almost threw up when I saw that photoshopped pic of Watkins in a Rams uni. I don't get it. The Julio Jones comparisons (injuries and talent) make me very anxious.
I hope Mr. Beane proves me wrong.
Point one is totally irrelevant - yes I would draft a 24 yr old SW in the first if he was under a rookie contract and the injuries were not there.
I would not draft a 24 yr old SW with the known injury history and knowing you need to sign him at 13-15 million a year contract with the injury history.
You trade the guy to get a younger version that is price controlled for 4 or 5 years and fits the scheme you want to run.
The Julio Jones comparison is great if we had Matt Ryan and a passing offense, but that is not what we are doing this year or probably next year - so get something and move on.
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YPC: 11.9 for Matthews vs. 16.1 for Watkins. Matthews has played in 9 more games and only has two more TDs. That's not what I call being more productive. With the 2nd surgery, I do believe SWAT will finally be healthy and be a beast in LA.
I would say over 3 years if a guy has more catches per season, more yards per season, and more TDs per season - that he is more productive - yes.
Is Sammy the better player - yes, but as he has not been healthy for a full season - he has never lived up to that potential.
It is great that you think Sammy will be healthy - the issue is the you THINK. He has not been healthy since he started and there are many players that never really recover after that injury. There are also some players that do. It is a risky proposition to assume he will stay healthy and if you can get a player that has put up better numbers during the same number of years in the league - it is not bad to look at.
I also think the QB play in LA is going to be bad - I think Watkins will at best be average with that team - and will be looking for a new team in 2018 and the Bills will have gotten something p, while the Rams will lose him for compensatory picks.
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Worst trade in Bills history. Hands down.
Trading 2 firsts and a 4th for Sammy originally- says hi.
This is not even the worst Bills trade involving Sammy.
Bills' Roster Cuts to the 53 Man Limit
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I like it - it kept more people available for game #4 - allowing the starters to essentially sit it out.
Without it when you are at 75 - you have basically back-ups in and if someone gets hurt you got guys from the 53 in playing just to fill out the line-up.
I would prefer to see them have 2 regular preseason games with a 75 man roster ( starters and bubble guys) and the 2 games with a 75 man roster of bubble guys.