Rochesterfan
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Posts posted by Rochesterfan
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Maybe clock management would be better if tyrod wouldnt scramble for 3 yards every other play when you are trying to conserve time
Truth!
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bull **** call.
I'm watching the Denver/Dallas game and they herald Bryant for doing the same thing.
Call it consistently (see Bryant, Gronk, etc.) or don't call it at all.
Gronk gets called for OPI as much or more than anyone. Den also gets his share of OPI calls.
Some of it depends upon the reaction of the defender - in the Bills case the guy goes 4 yards down field falling.
I think there was contact and his arm extends, but I also think the DB gets his feet tangled making it look worse.
I think that is a call that can go either way and it went against us. I don't think it was a bad call, but it also has gone without being called because it is borderline.
Agree. Never saw a replay but it looked like the defender turned Shady's helmet. The announcers never commented on it.
I heard them say something, but never saw a replay because of the hurry up. It looked like his mask got pulled down - did not see it turn at all, but still could of been called.
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An average preseason QB who has been glorified by hopeful posters who gleefully clutch onto any possinle answer to the drought? Yes, I absolutely think it would be.
I liked watching Peterman. But if you throw him in this game, it gets more difficult to win, not easier
Much like last year - I have no idea what we are going to get with the back-up, but we know what we have with the starter.
Is Peterman better - Heck if I know. What I do know is that the offense under Peterman will look very different than under TT.
Will it look better - that I can not say. I think we see a higher volume of passing and probably some more turnovers, but we also see a more fluid looking offense. I think there will be drives that backfire because I do not think Peterman has NFL accuracy or arm strength yet, but I think they are designing this offense for the future and I want to see who can do what if the QB tries to make some plays.
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Name all the throws TT missed and all the open WR he missed.
Without the All 22 - I can just go off the broadcast, but:
There was O'Leary on a roll-out that TT never stopped looking at his Outside Receiver - ended up throwing a poor ball to a guy with a DB sitting on him..
There were at least 2 plays early that TT bailed on with McCoy open right in the middle of the field.
The throw to Zay at the end he also had a wide open McCoy.
As we watch the all 22 - there was at least one play early that we rewound and you could see Clay open underneath.
I also will be interested because I think the WRs were in 1:1 coverage a lot and he rarely made a play to them anywhere.
The O-Line was not great, but he bailed to many times instead of trusting the progression and getting rid of the ball on time - even if you think the receiver is covered.
He made a great throw the one time he dared to stay in get pocket and take the hit.
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I'd much rather have Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods over Jordan Matthews and Zay Jones, and it's not even remotely close.
I would take Zay and Jordan and a 2nd and a 3rd and EJ Gaines.
We have seen what Sammy and Robert did for the passing game the last 2 years - very bottom. Time to move on.
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TT is widely recognized as having a good deep ball. Yet we don't see it this year. Is that by choice or scheme. From my interpretation, it was dink and dunk, move the chains and play it safe. It's totally possible there were open receivers deep, yet the commentators never acknowledged it, not did I recognize any.
As far as throwing it up to J Matt and Zay and hoping for the best, is this really a discussion? How could you "trust" as you've mentioned these receivers to make plays. Between a new acquisition and a rookie, we really are stretching as far as stating it's on TT because he doesn't give these B squad guys a chance.
TT is acknowledged to throw a nice go route down the sideline (a fairly safe pass) - he was never very good at actually throwing to a receiver.
Why was Peterman able to go from 3rd string WRs to 2nd string was to starters through 3 games and trust them, but TT can't trust the starters? The trust is on TT. Sammy when he was here complained about not getting the ball from TT - do you think it would be different.
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Goff was terrible today. The whole game. Anyone who watched I think would say that.
Yet he completed only 2 less passes than TT and doubled his yards and threw a TD to go with a pick.
Watching Goff was bad, but TT was terrible.
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Sammy Watkins and Robert Woods still catch a 10 yard out and run out of bounds...
Plus after 2 weeks Jordan Matthews in a run first offense has more receiving yards than Sammy.
Robert Woods had 1 whole catch for 8 yards today. One less than his replacement in Buffalo.
Not sure either of these guys would help based on how they have played in weeks 1 and 2.
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THANK YOUUUU
people are so insecure with our QB play that a loss immediately results in a tyranny. Watch the film. Please. You get it. We aren't running wide open down the seams and TT is missing it.
He does what he is asked to do.
They are not running wide open, but they are running downfield one on one, but if the WR is not Wide open and facing TT - he does not make that throw.
QBs all over the league make passes to WRs that have a defender covering them - if they are one on one - they trust that receiver to make a play - sometimes they do and sometime they do not.
If as everyone keeps saying - Carolina had 9 guys in the box trying to stop the run and contain TT in the pocket - then the WR and TEs should be one on one - TT needs to grow a pair and throw those guys open.
I saw several times TEs were open for 1st downs, but TT did not come of his first covered read or he chose to pull the ball down and run.
It is 3 years worth of the same thing - TT does not turn the ball over because he does not take a chance and trust his players.
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Show me the proof this one is on TT. And please don't point to one throw. How about the putrid offensive scheme or the numerous breakdowns in protection. Or the fact that we didn't move the ball on the ground for ****. Even Shady, in all his glory, was not a factor. But this one is on TT. Some fans have chosen a scape goat. And that's okay, I get it, I'm mad too. But don't put the game on TT. He did exactly what he was asked to do.
The entire game is not on TT, but he did nothing to make the game better.
He telegraphed throws to the flat to RBs, He missed guys like Clay and O'Leary running underneath because he was focused on one WR that was covered, He left protected pockets several times when at the top of his drop - guys were open and then chose to run twice very late in the game when we were trying to conserve clock - rather than just throw the ball after after a poor choice of scrambling. I could go on and on.
He makes a few plays (see last week), but because of a lack of throwing awareness - he leaves too many plays on the field because he cannot get through a progression quick enough.
Overall the game was poorly played by the offense, but just like Baltimore last year - you sometimes need a QB to make a play - and/or trust a guy and make a throw to at least back guys off. TT did not do that - Carolina would blitz and TT was looking for gaps to run rather than hitting his drop and throwing the ball to a WR that is one on one.
You also saw how they telegraphed where TT likes to throw - and jumped several out routes - that left guys like Clay and O'Leary open near the hash marks several times that I could see from the broadcast angle. It is not going to be fun looking at the All-22.
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Right. Looking like a Hackett Marone offense. Garbage.
Yet when they got a real QB in Orton the offense opened up. Maybe it is not the offense, but the QB.
2 Weeks of very average (at best) play out of the position.
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Watkins on the roster instead of Matthews, the Bills win.
You mean the same Watkins that has 8 catches for less yards than Matthews when Matthews is on a run first team.
I think if Sammy was on the team - we would be hearing complaints about throw me the ball and he would be a non-factor.
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Hopefully when they unleash him he runs away and they can't find him.
LOL - funny stuff
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Yeah because it is standard data with this QB. So i know i will see more
I know there is one with O'Leary
Yeah - that was a killer - throw it to a guy covered with 2 guys coming at you.
Right in the game flow a wide open TE for a first down, but TT stares at 1 receiver and doesn't follow progressions at all.
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1. It seemed like CAR DL had penetration into the backfield on almost every play.
2. No lanes for shady to run.
3. No chemistry in passing game.
I guess what bothered me most was that offense wasnt doing anything and we didnt try anything to really disrupt the defense. No quick slant passes. No screens to WR. No bootleg Playaction on first down. Just very vanilla.
They ran some screens - the QB does not throw slants - he throws outs and corners to guys very late.
There were serval times where you could see open guys underneath that TT did not see.
He is what he he at this point - a very average QB that cannot read a defense.
He was average last week and straight up low tier this week.
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You cant extend your arms as a WR to gain separation. Holmes did that a little bit. But it was more dramatic bc the defender fell. Had he not fallen perhaps no call.
Agree it was close but when the DB goes down it gets called
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It hit both his hands and he is an NFL receiver.
It's clutch time and TT atleast GAVE HIM A REAL CHANCE. That's on Zay
He gave him a chance, but that throw was terrible and not the first bad throw he has had.
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What is going on there? A surprising amount of NFL coaches cannot manage the clock. Yet a college student can make a hierarchy of when to call a timeout at exact moments of a game to save the most clock. Him failing to call a TO with less than 40 seconds to go after a run was crazy.
Bills need to hire a time management guy to call timeouts at the end of a game
Disagree - everyone was close and they got the play off in under 13 seconds.
The QB on 2 straight plays needs to either throw it away or try to fit it someplace- the QB screwed up by running the ball when we need to pass.
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Despite how bad a job Glenn did there the ball should have already been in Clays hands IMO.. Tyrod has got to step up here
No kidding - had him right in time and refused to throw it and gets sacked.
Terrible.
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Put in Peterman!
Just wanted to be the first to say it.
Already been said with first drive - LOL
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I'm afraid you're right about Clay (except I think Roman/Rex wanted him and told Whaley/Overdorf to do whatever it took to get him). I think that was the story of Rex's first year: the D was great, he was going to make them a #1 D, so we had to grab the pieces Roman needed to work the offense, RIGHT NOW, and pay whatever it took. We overpaid for a couple other guys too, Felton for one IIRC. Then when that didn't work out, left the Bills in Cap Coventry.
I guess I do think that a non-elite but good TE makes that catch and that's what I thought Clay was.
I was thinking about this issue while listening to Romo's debut as a football announcer. It was pretty clear that Romo was speed-reading the D and had the appropriate offensive reaction programmed on speed dial. (I will love to see if he can work it the same way with the Pats and Seasnakes). I am sure he would be just as fast as the play develops during the game. I think it's this, the ability to speed-read and react appropriately, that differentiates QB in the NFL. The college offenses and defenses don't prepare college QB for it these days, and it strikes me as quite likely a QB coach/OC who has many years dissecting plays on film, might not be able to teach it. It may be hard to teach - I'm sure Romo could do a "film room" on the plays after the fact and dissect them a la OC, but I wonder if he even knows what he's seeing and processing IN REAL TIME on the field to make the call. I don't know if I'm explaining myself well - I think in real time, the QB doesn't have time to say "OK the safety drifts outside and back", there's probably something in the way the guy's hips or chest move that would make Romo say "he's going back")
I think Taylor is really still "look at the Choo Choo" in this regard. I think it's probably a skill that can be taught - but probably NOT by conventional film room work.
I agree fully- it is easy to diagnose after the fact, but live it may be difficult, but I think you are right that is what differentiates QBs at the his level.
I think that is why a guy like Peyton could play the way he does, but I do not think he could teach someone to do what he did.
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I think the biggest thing where he can improve on is the pre snap read. If you get your read right then it helps to compartmentalize what you are looking at. I know this sounds nit picky but on that play there were only 2 possible threats to Clay, the LB that was covering him and #33. He looks out to the left to Zay, he can see that the DB on him is in zone and #33 is drifting that direction, at that point you'd hope that TT would immediately recognize that #33 is taking himself out of the play in the middle of the field and that Clay now has one on one coverage with a LB, who subsequently would be entering into that wide open space of the middle of the field. From there you'd hope he'd look back to Clay as soon as he sees #33 drifting away and find Clay for an easy TD.
I know, sounds like nitpicking, but I do believe that if he had a better pre snap read he'd have recognized that. Doesn't matter now, hopefully that's something he'll get better at recognizing. Still, all in all he played a good solid game.
This is literally exactly what I said in the TT thread. My issue is the safety Adams (I think) is the key. TT first read is to Zay, but the key is Adams. TT knows that Zay is coming toward the middle and that Clay is moving from the middle out. QB 101 on that play is what does the safety do. TT is looking right at him and the safety drifts outside and back. Immediately in his drop - TT should be thinking the throws goes to Clay and he should of hit the end of his drop and hit Clay right after the break at the 3 yard line with no one around him.
Instead TT keeps watching Zay and finally slides 2 steps 2 the left in the pocket and comes off to Clay. He makes an acceptable throw to Clay and one that I would of like to see caught, but Clay is running toward the sideline with his shoulders toward the sideline And the throw is behind him. That is a difficult catch. Most back shoulder throws are a guy running down field and then stopping and turning back , but this was a guy going 1 way having to reach behind him. It is not impossible, but it is not a catch everyone makes - especially knowing he hit is coming.
I do not expect Clay to make that play - I do not think he is an elite level TE. I think he is good, but Whaley and Rex wanted him and way overpayed to get him. The attempt was adequate, but he is not an elite level pass catcher. My only issue with the play and I agree fully with Magox is the read should of happened faster to get off Zay and to Clay or he had to hold it longer for Zay to clear the Safety and LB on the end line, but Clay on time was an easy TD - unless the call the push off on Clay.
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In honor of the Florida Keys, Key Lime Pound Cake
This is good to hear, that he's taking responsibility. Now can he fix it.
Good post! Agree love discussion when both sides bring facts.
I might just be regressing to Hopeful, but I'm hopeful for progression. I thought I saw some things out of TT that I hadn't seen except Wk 16 last year - I felt he stepped up in the pocket more, I felt he bailed early less.
This is the sort of thing that isn't worth arguing about, because only time will tell. If it's progression, we'll see more and more of it. If it's a flash, it'll come and go.
On the Clay throw, I personally agree with those who thought Zay Jones was his first read and he was waiting for Zay to get open - which Zay finally did, after Taylor decided he had to move on. I think he moved left to get a throwing lane over the DLman. But that's just me, no salesman will call. I do feel our OL is still a problem, especially the R side still isn't bringing the "Nasty"
I agree - I have looked at it from about a million angles. I think Zay is his first read - the issue I have and it is small, but there is 1 defender that he should be reading to determine where to go. There is a safety? (the one that ends up hitting Clay) that is the key to this play. If he slides toward Clay - Zay should be the read - if he slides down and out (as he does) then TT must come off Zay and hit Clay nearly immediately . It should of taken a 1/2 second to read during the drop back and then the ball has to come out to Clay.
TT holds the ball moves to the left to perhaps open a lane and then finally comes off and picks up Clayto late. At that point Clay is bracketed by defenders. The pass itself was within the realm of making a catch, but the time is where I had an issue.
Again overall TT was what we have seen and if the D can play at that level we will be fine.
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I will look at it. To me, and I have seen it about eight times, it was both a kinda bad pass and a dropped ball. There is no question he could have made a better pass. And high and behind are extra hard to make. But to me there is also no question that your big dollar TE has to make that touchdown catch when it hits his hands like that. Both things can be true.
I don't think you can use a play like that as an example of "missing open receivers" when the play is clearly there to be had, he looks at Clay all the way, he's open for a touchdown and it should have been a touchdown. You can blame him for not throwing a good pass, sure. But IMO you can't say that he missed a way open guy in Zay Jones.
Btw, where is that link to the pass. I can't find it.
Edit. Found it. Doesn't change my opinion of it. Not great pass. Still should have been caught.
It is not the pass to me that is the issue and I feel very justified from my earlier posts. The pick is on TT not because of the pass - where he put the pass was not great, but Clay had a shot - it was how late the pass to Clay was.
I will repeat and for those that need to watch it there are links in this thread and others. TT gets to the end of his drop and he is looking for Clay. Clay makes a break at the 4 and pulls immediately away from the LB and is open. TT pulls the ball down and drifts one step to the left. Clay is still open and a throw there to the exact same spot he eventually throws it and it would have been a touchdown, but TT drifts one more step to the left and then tries to fit the ball into the only open spot left high and behind the TE at that point.
Clay gets a hand on the ball barely - He could of done better and that part is on Clay, but the pass at that point was way to late. That is what I saw live - that is what I saw on replay - now that is confirmed on the All-22. As I have repeatedly stated - it was not where he threw the ball that was the issue - it was when - especially after watching him stare at Clay the entire play - he has his eyes right on the final location from just after the snap - that part is all on TT.
As I said - this to me was a standard TT game - he made some nice plays and missed some plays. He made some good throws and some throws that were late. He moved out of the pocket unnecessarily a few times and into more pressure, but also stayed in the pocket. It was a standard game - nothing to complain about and nothing to get excited about. He will play better in a few games this year and will play worse in a few games and will have 7 or so other games in this very vein.
There is a ton of argument on both side because we are a passionate fan base and TT is so middle of the road. There are guys that want better and bash TT for things that an Elite QB can do - that TT will never do - and there are people that praise TT for doing things that make him a Top 10 QB like completion percentage and TD/INT ratio and running the ball. Both sides are correct and both sides want to see someone that will help the team win - it is all about perspective and what you are willing to look for.
I for one love the argument when both sides bring facts and info and there are many ways for both sides to be correct. I dislike the few extremes on both sides that just fling out crap like it is truth. The nice thing is it seems there a larger number willing to bring their opinions with some facts and we need more of that and less cold hard statements.
Peterman wins the game by the game by 10.
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
That was the play that even on the broadcast you could see Clay was open and TT never left his first read until it is to late.
There were others like this with McCoy slipping out into the middle of the field.