HopefulFuture

Interesting that traffic is listed as #1. And spot on, I've been through this with Mayor Dyster and, at the time, David Griggs, representing agent of the Buffalo-Niagara Development Agency. This article is very accurate.

I think your not thinking things through. It's obvious you've never been involved in large scale development projects. My background, I worked with Triad electric and control, MMR group, Haliburton, BIDC and several other large scale project developers building large scale industrial projects ranging from rail accessed power plants to large scale industrial sites with a significant increase in traffic flows in an urgan environment and I can assure you minimizing cost at the public level (i.e infrastructure upgrades directly related to the project) is directly behind the ROI in those Pro Forma's. I realize it's sarcasm, but as I stated, there are more condusive sites when reviewing existing traffic studies. The main North/South artery outside of the thruway for the Buffalo/Niagara Falls corridor is Niagara Falls Blvd. That is a nightmare during rush hours, Game day's would be no different. I don't know how politics would put it in the Falls. Maziarz just inturred that district to his own in recent years, and although George is a power player in the Senate at the state level, he wouldn't hold the cards on skin in the game from the state level. That honor would fall to Featherstonehaugh, Wiley and Cline, LLP, the holders of the NYSPF purse strings. Any major movement of capital like this would surely involve them. The state doesn't just hand out money, and they don't normally add additional taxes each year for projects such as this, they borrow it and normally from the NYSPF with a nice rate of return. They are called General Obligation Bonds, and the pension fund eats them up.

Not viable. Traffic flow would impede the tourist trade there. The Falls can sell itself and should get a bi-product boost from a new venue such as a domed stadium, it's just not viable to have it in downtown Niagara Falls. Other portions of Niagara County, further east and south of Niagara Falls are very reasonable however. Especially given the 990 access point combined with the 190 to the north and 290/90 to the west southwest. That area would most likely be the least expensive at this time in infrastructure upgrades. I'd imagine Transit Roads continued make over going north into Lockport could handle initial overflow problems until the 990 is run further through.

Don't count on the PSL's, look to private equity from an ownership group. I can't see an ownership group depending on such a high risk as the PSL's. They'd need reserve capital for sure.

Those numbers are pre 2008 figures. You'd need over 1 billion to build a domed stadium in WNY. The facility would have to handle the elements here. Look at Dallas, that's the cost we'd be looking at plus some.

Well, I'm trying to view it as the glass is half full type of scenario. All we need is that bottle of wine tipped upward to fill the rest of the glass Haha, I've had my share of negative posts as well. For example, prior to knowing about the sale to a non-relocating buyer, I posted I felt for sure they were a gonner. I was saddened by that, but trying to be realistic from a business perspective. Then, I learned about that clause and my view changed. Just like everyone else, I'm human, a creature of emotions. I'm trying to look at all the possibilities with this particular subject. I am of the thought that the Buffalo Bills very well may be one of the key factors to a complete turn around for WNY. Pegula bought the Sabres and is heavily investing in Buffalo. There are better markets to spend all that money he has if he wants an immediate ROI, but I strongly believe his sites are set on a bigger prize, the New York Marcellus Shale ROI, worth a whole hell of a lot more than merely investing in some other, non energy area of the country. As for Galisano, I've always watched politics with keen interest. Cuomo, the same. Like I said, there's just to much good to come to these 3 men, and not just them. Think of the windfall for Millstein if the Stadium site is Niagara County, close to the city of Niagara Falls. Or how about the increase in skilled labor brought to the area combined with an increase on the positive side for the Buffalo-Niagara region. Surely companies such as Rich products and Delaware North wouldn't complain if they were supporters, even indirectly, to such an endeavor. If these WNY power brokers play their cards right, Cuomo could very well have that nice feather in his cap on helping to accelerate the turn around of the 3rd poorest city in America and use that in a national campaign for the White House. There is much to be said about the stars aligning. If these gentemen were smart, they would even give google's owner a percentage of ownership and in turn google can build it's server building here like Yahoo did in order to save some cash on the cooling of those systems long term. Bringing further job creation and skilled labor to the area only furthering their reputations. Thinking outside the box and bringing an endeavor like this together is merely a few phone calls and meetings away. Lets hope this or something similiar is what's being done behind the scenes. I'm Hopeful for the Future and the Bills situation could, and I stress could, be the catalyst to better days here in WNY.

He started off just over 4 billion after the sale to Shell. He's worth 3.1 billion as of this year according to Forbes. But I find that number misleading, I believe he's worth more than the 4 billion he started off at. The key for him is Marcellus Shale. He'd be the key player in that arena and from people I know in Albany he's been the driving force behind the scenes on it since arriving here in New York. I don't get into the good vs bad on fracking, just looking at it from a strictly business point of view. On the other side of the aisle you have Galisano, who's political aspirations are well known. The governers seat is his target. Over the years he's made many deep connections in that arena from both up and down state. Those connections may open doors to allow some things to be fast tracked as well as money to flow from the state toward a stadium endeavor. Then there is Cuomo, who, despite side stepping the question, is in the wings for a run at the White House. Maybe not this next election cycle, but he's still young enough to hold out another 4 to 8 years for such a run. A successful completetion of job creation in the 3rd poorest city in America (I.E. construction jobs for infrastructure upgrades and the stadium itself), combined with the loyalty shown to keep the Bills here as well as the ability to work across party lines for such a large project would look very attractive at the national level for a future candidate. It certainly couldn't hurt his likability. When put into this context, you can see how the Buffalo Bills future in WNY has the potential to uniquely affect all 3 of these mens future endeavors. Of course, it's speculation, but it doesn't take much to connect the dots if we just follow the money.

I don't believe a stadium by downtown would work with the traffic situation. Very limited access from major arteries. I think the East Amherst area, Niagara County, or where the current Ralph is probably has more traffic flow viability. It's almost more than apparant any new stadium is going to come with infrastructure upgrades. I would like to see money put into the rail system here for further transportation enhancements. There are a great deal of possibilites if that were to be a part of any long term scenario.

I believe it should be considered so from the outset. I'm trying to avoid the "do you have a source scenario". Maybe worded wrong, but it makes a great deal of sense from a $ perspective. Edit: And I should point out, a nice domed stadium worth, let's say 1.5 billion, just to throw a number out there, is well within the realm of reason if some traction is gained on some outside issues. After all, 1.5 billion is a drop in the bucket compared to that gas in the shale. I'm looking at this from a larger view point is all. The no sale to a relocating ownership group, the need to have that stadium and both of these gentlemen have commented on the Bills future in the past couple of years. Looks like a win for the region sports wise, helps offset some of those negative feelings on fracking and opens the door for a great deal of money to flow from the state to such an endeavor, not to mention the political and energy aspirations of them. ;Haha, I'm no one, just a fan. My wording is never the best. Just trying to get the wheels turning on thoughts of the possibilities is all.

I think many that read this should take it for what it is, some information for you all. A Galisano, Pegula team up is what you are looking at here. Don't ask if this is speculation, just know the following: Galisano has deep political connections at the local and state levels. Pegula is heavily investing in Buffalo, he's going all in, take that at face value, the Harbor Center is just the beginning. Galisano needs some heavy lifing on his end in the political arena, Pegula nees some heavy lifing in the same arena. Marcellus Shale is on the line, and Cuomo is the key. Schumer is a mouth piece, an after thought. This is the best hope for the Bills here, it's actually the only real hope. Like I said, take it at face value, either you follow the money, or you don't, the choice is yours.

One can hope while still facing the realities of economics in the area. To the bottom part of your response. As I've eluded to in other threads, opening up mom and pop light industrial industries doesn't replace the amassed middle and upper middle manufacturing jobs that were lost in this area short term, And that is what we are dealing with here, short term. The way I see it, a new owner doesn't have 2 or 3 generations of time to wait for the anticipated return of that lost area wealth. One variable I notice you've ommited from your post is the PSL pricing in other markets that currently are looking for an NFL team yet do not have one. Surely a new owner, and the other 31 owners will be looking to maximize those numbers. And I'm equally sure with inflation due to rear it's ugly head as the QE's come to an end and the free money dries up those prices will see more than a modest adjustment once the new realities of economics settle in.

I posted aways back on this. I think many fans, many of them, are blinded by their emotions on this. A new stadium here doesn't make a whole lot of sense given the economics of the area. We are the 3rd poorest city in America on the last list formed. Schumer or other political nonsense that people point to is ridiculous. This is going to be a business decision pure and simple.

Try hundreds of billions oif dollars to clean it up. It cost Oxy 1.2 billion for soil restoration from 92 to 09. And that was for a mere 12.2 acres of land.

True, it's all speculative based, but in my case, it's hard facts from dealing with bringing anything of significants to this area that I deal from. That being the case, I can rest easy saying what I say based upon experience in dealing with some of the entities that are sure to be involved in the process.

Yes, this is very true. But look at the timing of the iron clad lease. Your looking at an area inbetween major political events combined with a state and local coffer scenario that is less than idealistic. And that isn't going to change for the forseeable future in my most humble opinion. Oh, and my opinion, comes upon 25 years of watching what is happening both locally and nationally on an economic scale. Not to say I am the end all be all of informative points of view, but a very realistic one.

Trump, Galisano, Kelly. These groups would be in the process of buying the team if it was staying. As a matter of fact, they would have been in discussions for a few years now I am sure. People tend to forget, if the team was staying, a buyer would have been in place prior to Mr. Wilson's passing. That isn't the case here. And if you think I'm talking out my ass, let me fill you all in on something, I brought a 2.4 billion dollar waste to energy facility to WNY, with 8k, yes, 8k in jobs on the line that would have quelled the wind turbines on lake Ontario talk immediately, as a wind farm in ND was involved. I brought 85% money to the table from Dubai, I brought 15% from the NYS Pension Funds as the local skin in the game. If you believe for one second these politicians or local business leaders are involved to this point, your mistaken. So far, it's all out of state parties to be sure.

Don't give any odds to that. I feel your not in touch with the most realistic economic situation here in NYS. I've dealt directly with NYS, and I'll tell you out right, 8k in jobs were on the line with WNY. The project fell through, and not based on my clients failures, but on the states failures to find general funds. You fool yourself if you think the money will flow from the state.

My apologies if anyone feels I am trolling. That is not my intention at all. I am merely pointing out that there may, and I stress may, be a sad day here in WNY. We must look at this from both angles. Either the glass is half full or it's half empty. But we'd be foolish if we didn't speak on all aspects of the situation. I am a die hard fan to be sure, but I cannot sit in the realm of unreasonable thought. I have to consider all and attempt to formulate an opinion based on that.

I agree with your assessment of LA as a market to a point. But other variables come in to play. The ability to absorb more local money into a new stadium for example. Its not set in stone that the Bills will leave, it's just my opinion, but I have to admit to myself that its not the best of positions we find ourselves in. Toronto is a viable market without the WNY regions support. It's viable. There are other cities with the ability to handle an NFL franchise quite successfully. I can see South Carolina successfully handling a team either in Charleston or Columbia. Texas has a couple of locations with the ability to successfully handle a team. There's also the ability to locate to one of the BIG 5 (Top 5 cities in the US population wise) to handle a 2nd team. Many options available to a new owner and the NFL.

I never said it was a pretty opinion of the situation. I wouldn't like to see them leave if your wondering. But in the end, what other analysis can I deduce? I have to go on what is in front of me. Hell, I'd love the region to turn it around, but the truth is, and we all know this, the area hasn't recovered from multiple situations. Massive chemical dumps, abandoned business of larger employment scale either being razed to the ground or sitting as eyesore's of an era long since gone, and the list goes on. Look back at the last 40 years of local executive/legislative initiatives. Do you see any that show real progress to a post chemical/manufacturing based economy? I sure don't. That would be considered fact, would it not? And as for dual residency, it is a direct impact to the region when that number of individuals openly admit to not spending money in the WNY region for various factors, taxes being one of them, but not the only one. As I said, it's not a pretty opinion of mine, but it's what I have to go on.

Actually, both are facts. 19.2% of the census results from 2010 show dual state residency (also known as snowbirds). That number shows a continued exodus from the region. I never stated they have no power, I stated they have no leadership which leads to no power. There is a difference there.

After years and years of hearing whispers of the Bills leaving Buffalo combined with the passion of fans across multiple socail media sites one thing is abunduntly clear, Bills fans let their emotions blind them to the realities of the situation both the organization and the region find themselves in. The truth is, Buffalo is a continuing shrinking region population wise. Even if it flatlines and levels off to non population losses, the damage already done is far to serious to believe relocation isn't a very real possibility. The facts are clear here. Fact, Buffalo is not an NFL market that makes or breaks the bank. It's a low end market in point of fact. Once you get past the ticket sales, you have to consider a multitude of other revenue streams, not the least of which is television veiwership and NFL merchandise sales. Don't think for one moment there aren't better markets out there for this, there is. Fact, the regional leadership of WNY (i.e. political, business, community) is devoid of any real power. The only individual with the financial means to purchase the team and put a new stadium up is Terry Pegula in all earnest. There isn't another local wealth family/individual with the financial capabilities to do both at this time. Fact, given the projections of stagnation economically for the greater region, there is not one single projection of any substantial growth in the area for the forseeable future. There are many more facets of factors that come in to play. But be not fooled, the Bills, in my most humble opinion, are gone, either in year 7 or at the end of the lease. The writing is on the wall here people, don't get angry about my opinion. It's just that, but it's also formulated by a great deal of facts.

This. Won't watch them, but I'll be interested to see if some of the youth develops. Should be an interesting off season. I've been saying that for 14 years going on 15, another off season couldn't hurt any worse I guess, but as for the rest of this season, not tuning in to watch them. Sorry, but I've seen enough this season.

I'm not opposed to this as we draft to fill other positions. But in the end, I've seen this before from QB's, good enough to merit another look, but never good enough even with experience to lead a championship team. As I said, I don't like his over all abilities currently. It wasn't the fumbles that cost this game to me, it was EJ's inability to move the chains via mid to long balls on several drives. The fumbles are an after thought if we are running the ball because we have a strong lead already IMHO. This I can get behind. The team over all, the record put aside, hasn't looked this promising in years. Here's to the future.

Good post, I was waiting for this. I've thought on this long and hard. a 2 and 9 team comes in and I payed close attention to his mechanics since he came into the league this year. Many things were wrong, but not with the receivers, he under threw 7 passes, behind 4, and over threw 9 long balls. That's 20 passes. Not all were incompletes mind you as several were caught by adjustments his receivers made, but in the end, those long ball side line over throws are critical. Putting the pickle in the barrel on those stretches that field for opposing defenses. It's not happening currently.