Juror#8

Spoken like a true DMVer.

I asked you to point out something demonstrable and politically significant to justify your claim that Obama is a socialist and you answer with Matt Damon. Then, you actually had the audacity to conclude in that strange way as if you had identified some universal truth. That was a joke right? This is some hazing thing again.....right? Right? Your entire post is some kind of weird "gotcha" and you're just waiting to pounce? Because if not, your entire post, yes the entire thing, is one of the worst (or best, depending on your disposition) examples of deflectionary tactic that I have ever had the displeasure of seeing. Either answer my original question, or just say you !@#$ed up and move on. Save all the fluff and other **** for someone else. Again, you're arguing with yourself. Read my original post. I didn't blindly encapsulate you within some constrained category. In fact I said "correct me if I'm wrong..." which effectively conditioned my subsequent analysis(concluding with "that, sir, is myopic"). That is what FAIR people and intellectually honest debaters do. I acknowledged that I could be incorrect, and asked for you to opine if that was the case because I didn't want to categorize you unnecessarily or unfairly. You, in response, decided to debate a non-issue (see bolded and underlined point above) as if it was dispositive. Then you figuratively thrust your chest out in some victorious e-pose when the only thing you accomplished was to combatively answer my request for clarification. You're like the street racer revving the engine of your tricked out Chevy Cavalier triumphantly for all at the traffic light to behold....especially the guy in the Porsche 996 GT3...who you're confident that you're cooler than. "On [your] level"? Do you believe the **** that you say? You just told me that Matt Damon is proof that Obama is a socialist and that the trial and tribulations of your school lunch program evidences welfare's failures. Really brotha? Either answer my original question, or just say you !@#$ed up and move on. Save all the fluff and other **** for someone else. I have so deconstructed your posts on occasion that you're left scrambling for an answer. Usually that is the point when you begin hurling insults. I have found flaw, after flaw, after logical fallacy, after analytical incongruity, after non-linear reasoning...with your posts. Go back and read our discussions. It's cry funny how profoundly I have disassembled you, the entirety of you, on occasion. With that said, I have also learned things from you, and others here that I disagree with. And my underlined point above, more than anything, underscores the difference between you and I. The funny thing is, I don't think you'll ever quite get it. 1. You didn't answer a single question in my post. 2. You conveniently dismiss issues that you're not comfortable addressing in order to avoid analytical effort. 3. I don't think that your position is predicated on "welfare queen assclownery." I wasn't sure before from whence your position came; Thank you for clarifying. 4. You've responded to my post by hurling declarative statements and mis-characterizations as if they substitute for analysis. Please folks, read his post. The **** is unmistakable. 5. I will be watching "Bourne Supremacy" tonight and enjoying a "5 Guys" burger after a long week at work. 6. Comfortable perch in the suburbs? Now; yea...I'm doing REALLY well. Then; schiiiiiit...black face, poor family, from SE DC. End of story. 7. All that other schit notwithstanding...Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you and yours brotha (and the entire Stadium Wall community)!

Well said. As a moderate conservative, support for a functioning welfare system is based on preventative maintenance and pragmatism as much as beneficence.

Somebody like DC Tom may be able to check my historical reference here, but I beleive that one of the driving forces behind the establishment of welfare in the 1930s was an effort to curb the violence associated with people trying to eat during The Great Depression. Gangs had began forming in big cities that were jacking food from bread lines and there was fear that the loathing towards those who didn't lose everything in '29 would turn from percolating to violent. Not saying that that was the only impetus for welfare establishment; but it was one of them. And that was in a time before technology, and television, and huge megatropolises. Edit: This is by no means exhaustive, but a simple search yields all types of anecdotes about the violence during the Great Depression owing to people unable to eat: Violent hunger riots in Detroit, Toledo, NYC, etc.; farm protests; significant increase in the crime rate. The trend was increasing until the New Deal policies.

What about Obama makes him a socialist? This WH didn't get my vote, but still, I want to be intellectually honest. Decidedly liberal? Yes. Socialist? No. Please marry the rhetoric with the record and don't forget to factor in your Brady evidence. To say that welfare "fails entire families" is profoundly myopic. What is the articulated goal of welfare? Without looking at any federal policy definition, it's to provide financial assistance and a basic level of social support until the recipient can independently care for themselves or their family. You think that welfare fails in that regard? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you judge welfare by justaposing the huge federal expenditure with anecdotes about mothers having additional babies as frequently as they receive welfare checks. That, sir, is myopic. There are more folks who use welfare as a bridge between poverty and self-sufficiency, and who generate an income so that they can subsidize the system that allowed for their resurgence. Is welfare a perfect system? Hardly. Are there plenty of folks who use welfare checks to get their nails done, or buy Everclear, or pay their Hummer payment? Sure. Did the system, as originally envisioned, likely contemplate people using welfare checks to buy Hummers? Probably not. But those are the exceptions, not the rule. Unfortunately, though, when those "exceptions" can be counted into the millions, it's difficult not to be skeptical. But to say that the system, as a whole, failed, is articulating a characterization on the strength of the minority circumstance and entirely an appeal to emotion. Thankfully, it's not 1935, and mini-States in Europe are not paralyzed by fear of international aggression. Very good military analogy. I usually find flaws with logic. No complaints and I'm in agreement with your points above. As much as the country likes order, when 25,000,000 feel that they have been completely debased and that there is an institutionalized effort to do so, there will be bedlam. This is even distinct from segregation because with segregation there was a century long sociological trend to uproot the various symptoms of slavery beginning in the 1860s. It was a slow process, but a conspicuously changing one. In the instance of welfare and food, and eating, and shelter, you're dealing with issues that implicate basic human survival. You think 30 million people will just sit around and not eat? Natural selection may punk a few mil, but what about the 20 million able-bodied, resourceful, strong, young, stallions who can't find a job and now have been told to fend for themselves? Before they had an interim option. Now the only response is: don't eat and !@#$ off. They will fend for themselves and if you think some theoretical concept of "order" will intervene, you must not understand what a !@#$ing sympathetic nervous system is. You're talking about Leviathan state of nature ****. In the social compact, the government is obliged to provide for the general well-being of its folks. When that doesn't happen, the compact is broken and people return to their state of nature. People will respond like dogs trapped in a corner who has been abandoned and haven't eaten. Cut welfare. It will be !@#$ing Gotham City.

Thanks for the site reference. Didn't know that that information was out there. I amended my original post to include your link (if you don't mind).

+1 It gets so irritating having the discussion year in and year out about how the GM missed the player that they really coveted because the team who picked them picked one or two ahead of us (Patrick Willis, Ben Roethlisberger, etc.). Top 5-7 should get us RGIII or Barkley. This slump will never end until we get a transformational QB and build a solid line around them. Robert Griffin has the skill set to operate with the work-in-progress line we have now. It will be nice, in subsequent drafts, to think "Wow, we have our QB; let's now stregthen his supporting cast." It's been almost 20 years since we've been able to comfortably think that without reservations.

I'll acknowledge your economic argument and raise a sociological one: if you don't provide nary a social welfare program to the 28,000,000 million abjectly impoverished in this country (on the books), there will be public looting, disarray, and vigilantism. Charitable organizations are stretched thin NOW with billions annually in federal dollars going to public welfare programs. What are they gonna do when the fed money FULL STOPS? Sure, some will get jobs. But then how about the fundamentally unskilled, the developmentally challenged, the mentally ill, the handicapped, the profoundly un-motivated? Will they just not eat? Are they gonna just recede into society politely after they've been told that they, and no one else, have to rejoin the conceptual "state of nature"? No, it will result in mobocracy and lawlessness and bedlam the extent of which can only be conjectured. You think that there are enough state law enforcement resources to handle 25 million desperate, hungry, debased people? Enter vigilantism. Vigilantism begets martial law. Martial law maintains stability while the corresponding governmental institutionalized action (over-reach) - to ensure that such mobocracy forever remains in check - is conceived, developed and implemented. In effect, you create the monster that you aimed to destroy. Again, some folks are gonna get there hair did on your dollar. Suck it up and read some Thomas Hobbes. Given the sociological realities, subsidizing public welfare programs is better than the alternative.

Actually, best case scenario, based on the math, is Bills drafting 4th overall. Not saying that it will happen, but the possibility is not precluded by the math. And since they are only one game removed from that possibility currently (with two games remaining), there is a little better than an outside chance that it can happen.

He just always made me think Dan LeFevour.

No problem. Figured it may be fun to play with the different scenarios now that we know who stands where, and what games are most meaningful. Your 'Drafttek' site is awesome by the way. First chance I had to check it out. Good source of info. Added it to my favorites.

I didn't say that. Booooooo! Just saying that searching for a job results in acquiring a job (in time) so that the welfare system can be made whole.

1. Socialism is the "ism" ascribed to any concept of taxing earned income from some folks to subsidize others. 2. No nationally relevant politician has advocated any full-bore or wholesale political socialism in the last few election cycles. 3. Some politicians have advocated a taxpayer subsidy for certain public welfare programs. 4. Many on the fringes of society believe that those welfare programs represent a socialist ideology (either in prinicipal or a burgeoning socialist state). 5. Those fringe folks would have liked Joseph McCarthy, live in Michigan, and stockpile Spam, bread and water. 6. Full-bore Socialism seems to work in small, European mini-states. The U.S., though, is not a small European mini-state. 7. The folks who complain about socialism the most, in my expeirence, seem to be the biggest beneficiaries of Federal Student Loans - incidentally one of the biggest social welfare programs in the country. 7 a. They usually justify their hypocracy by pointing out that with student loans, they have to pay it back. What they don't realize is, is that many of the welfare programs (as governed by states) limit total time an individual can be on welfare and mandate job searches. Job searches, ostensibly, brings job procurement which leads to income generation which results in replenishment of the system via good ole 26 U.S.C. 1. 8. I'm conservative, but I'm also pragmatic and a realist (the glass is not half-empty or half-full; there is just water in the damn glass). I feel that it's not the public welfare programs that are the problem principally, it's the inefficiency and implementation of them. 9. Without social programs and "welfare," we'd have anarchy, public looting, and vigilantism. 10. The resulting political state would be one of absolutist government power (after the country ascended out of some weird hue of martial law) - which would position us way to the left on the political spectrum. Nobody wants that. Fix the system. Give people bread, and cookies, and canned pineapples. Unfortunately, a few folks will get their nails done on your dollar. Thankfully, more than that will have a meal because of your [unintended] generosity. Deal with it. The alternative is much worse.

He's played well. I can;t wait to see how he plays when he's not asked to compensate for the dearth of talent around him.

Hopefully this is unique enough to merit it's own post and amendments as games are played over the next two weeks. Mods, please feel free to consolidate with one of the 1500 other draft posts if you deem it appropriate. I know that there are a lot of draft threads right now. Just wanted to post something that, at least for the week, is current. Here is where things stand as of now: 1. .544 Colts 1 - 13 2. .564 St Louis 2 - 12 3. .587 Minnesota 2 - 12 4. .549 Tampa Bay 4 - 10 5. .495 Cleveland 4 - 10 6. .533 Jacksonville 4 - 10 7. .492 Redskins 5 - 9 8. .495 Miami 5 - 9 9. .500 Carolina 5 - 9 10. .500 Buffalo 5 - 9 Also, please check out the following link for end-of-the-season SOS projections (factoring in the final two games) care of 'ICanSleep' in post #11 below: http://www.gbnreport...draftorder.html Assuming a Buffalo 5-11 finish, the following permutations hold true: If Tampa or Jacksonville split the next two games (and end up 5-11), we jump ahead of them because of strength of schedule. 1. Jacksonville plays - @ Atlanta and @ Tennessee 2. Tampa plays - Dallas and @ Carolina If any of the following teams win a game, they will move below us in the draft order: 1. Redskins play - @ NY Giants and Minnesota 2. Miami plays - @ New England and NY Jets 3. Carolina plays - @ Houston and Tampa Bay Cleveland is a wild card. They could finish with a higher strength of schedule because they have yet to play Baltimore (10-4) and Pittsburgh (10-4). One win against either should push them over .500 (unfortunately though, SOS is a fluid situation). It's unlikely that either Baltimore or Pitt will be resting their starters because they're playing for the division. So a Cleveland win is unlikely. Best case scenario, Buffalo drafts 4th. More likely case, Buffalo drafts 5th - 7th. Worst case scenario (assuming Buffalo finishes 5-11), Buffalo drafts 10th.

A lot of good points here. And glad you're a fan of Biggie. It's sad how so many dismiss all rap as trash. Much of it is. A lot of it though, is poignant story-telling. If you see rap for what it is, and not try to compare it with Hendrix, Brubeck, Clapton, The Stones, Celine Dion, Phish, or whomever, it can be like listening to dramatic lyrical mini-series. But to some it will always be black folks, jumping around with their pants hanging down, talking in ebonics, over unconscionably bad noise (incidentally, that description reminds me of the dispute in an old property law 'nuissance or interference with the enjoyment of land' case where the guy complains of "noxious odors" coming from the adjacent chicken processing plant - well !@#$ing duh...ya shouldn't have moved there!). Contrary to the view of some stuffy prudes, not all rap is "noxious odor." The "rap is a huge infomercial" thing is interesting and, methinks, largely correct. Incidentally, about 10 years ago, when Cash Money, and those cats were getting big, I had a conversation with some friends and essentially opined the same thing....only not as nihilistically. I watched a BET interview with a then unknown and new-to-the-game artist, Juvenile (formerly of Cash Money) while he was in the Magnolia Projects wearing jeans in a t-shirt and some plain athletic shoes. The interview concerned his new video and album. In the video that debuted subsequent to the interview, he was flashing a somewhat pedestrian chain, and driving around in purple Plymouth Prowlers. I noticed that within a year of that video, his video were replete with cash being thrown in the air, Bentleys, Lambos, and a multitude of orchidaceous chains. It was then that I posited my theory that hip hop artists begin by showing you what they were advanced by the record company (because it represents an escape from traditional notions of "career path). The audience likes what they're shown so they buy records, download songs, ringtones, etc. The artists responds by buying more jewelry, better vehicles, and showing more money. The audience, captivated by the lavish lifestyle, then buys more albums so the artist can purchase more lavish things and show the audience what they just purchased for him. It's a weird form of vicariousness...that even admits itself physiologically. The artists are literally saying: "LOOK WHAT YOU BOUGHT FOR ME. I CAN TAKE THIS A STEP FURTHER IF YOU RESPOND TO THIS UNVEILING OF MATERIAL POSSESSIONS BY BUYING THIS NEW ALBUM." And it continues in that cyclical way ad absurdum. But how is it different then reality tv? Or Hollywood cinema? or Politicians? or the GI Bill? Why is it that the thespian is revered and the rapper is reviled? Both hope that the audience willingly suspends their disbelief long enough to buy into the narrative. Both are actors. Both discuss the implausible as if it were the commonplace and benefit financially because they have an audience for it. Why is that a scam? And doesn't it speak less to the snake charmer and more to the charmed? Isn't it simply a different approach to what people have yearned for for centuries...to be entertained and to get lost in a story.

Oh snap...you're trying to make a salient point by relying on a comedy routine.

I think that the problem is that you're presumptively ascribing characteristics to your person A and person B that presupposes the sociological outcome that you want. "I'm _______ and _______ and ________ because I'm just keeping it real." Is it that simple? Riddle me this...do you really, really, really, not think that they're both symptomatic of systematic oppression? Do you think that things happen in a vaccuum? You're not understanding my point about the hypothetical, and I'm obviously not understanding yours. Maybe that's just endemic to the world of internet debating. Lol.

You're better than this. I changed nothing about the substance of your point. I changed the articulated profession and articulated reason to something a little less anachronistic. If I said that "I watched a Tarantino flick, 'Jackie Brown', I think, at a great movie theatre in Adam's Morgan in 1994 with my best friends Hunter and Thompson." And you said that "'Jackie Brown' didn't play that day, but another Tarantino flick, 'Pulp Fiction', did." Does the substitution of the movie title necessarily impact the other substantive points in my sentence (i.e. that I was there with Hunter, and Thomspson, in Adams Morgan in 1994)?

Very good point and one that I didn't realize. I may have to re-evaluatwe my original paragraph a little bit now in consideration of these facts. I appreciate the challenge. Ok, so, this is COMPLETELY a guess, but the only thing I can think of to explain this disparity is the distinction between the affluent NW and the dilapidated SE that truncates the numbers and averages. Someone else in the area should be able to tell you as well that there FUNDAMENTALLY is a difference between the quadrants in DC. I know that Anacostia Senior High didn't spend 28,000 per student (or the equivalent in 1990s dollars) in 1992-1993 during my tenure. Very good point though.

You're essentially arguing that the "self-destructive, entitlement, keeping it real attitude - which communicates that college and a 9-5 job is selling out and being a celebrity, athlete or drug kingpin are the only ways to make it without betraying your neighborhood" is a recent phenonmenon that didn't exist 50-70 years ago. I believe that you're incorrect. If you replace in your statement "selling out" with "impossible due to Jim Crow," and replace "celebrity and athlete," with "saxophonist or pimp" you would have made an appropriately period-specific statement. And your bias against rap music shines through. You shouldn't let it get in the way of good facts and analysis though. Your analogy was a false one. It you spent another 20 minutes amending, manipulating and supplementing your original paragraph, it would still be the best non-sequitur that I've read this week. If you looked at my original statement objectively, you'd see that my point is not as simplistic as you tried to characterize it with your "Larry the Cable Guy" gem. I'll let you work on that on your free time though. As an aside... BTW, does OC just make a point and 60-70% of the folks here flock to support it? Is this some weird cult or fetish thing? Just seems odd that there is such an echo chamber in here. So many people, from so many parts of the country, with presumably widely divergent interests, and experiences think the EXACT SAME THING about so many very complex and multi-faceted issues. Seems kinda Halle Bop. Maybe it's an acceptance thing...not too sure. Maybe there are some obedience freaks in here...like Milgram experiment types. You'd almost think that people would fly against the grain if for no other reason than for the discussion.

Biggie Smalls "Ni**s Bleed" Verse 1 "Today's agenda Got the suitcase up in the Sentra Go to room 112, tell em Blanco sent ya Feel the strangest If no money exchanges I got these kids in ranges Believe them niggas brainless All they tote is stainless You just remain as Calm as possible, make the deal go thru If not, here's 12 shots, we know how you do Please make yo killins clean Slugs up in between They eyes, like True Lies Kill em and flee the scene Just bring back the coke or the cream Or else, yo life is on the shelf We mean this Frank Them cats we !@#$in wit put bombs in yo moms gas tank Lets get this money baby They shady, we get shady Dress up like ladies And burn em with 30 380's Then they come to kill our babies That all out I got gats that blow the wall out Clear the mall out !@#$ the fallout Word is Stretch, I bet they kitty The seven digits push me !@#$in real Here's the deal I got a hundred bricks, 14-5 a piece Enough to rooster a six by the house on the beach Supply the peeps with Jeeps Brick a piece Capiche? Everybody gettin cream No one considered the leech Think about it now, thats damn near 1 point 5 I kill em all I'll be set for life Frank pay attention These mutha!@#$as is henchmen Renegades, if you die they still get paid Extra probably, !@#$ the robbery I'm the boss Promise you won't rob em, I promise But of course you know I had my fingers crossed Verse 2 Since it's on, I call my nigga Arizona Ron From Tuscon, push the black Yukon Usually has the slow grooves on Mostly rock the Isley Stupid as a youngin, chose not to move wisely Sharper with game, him and his crooks, caught a ?jooks? Heard it was sweet, bout 350 a piece Ron bought a truck, 2 bricks layed in the cut His peeps got bucked, got locked the !@#$ up Thats when Rob vanished, came back, speakin spanish Lavish habits, two rings, 20 carats Heres a criminal Nigga made America's Most Killed his baby's mother's brother, slit his throat The nigga got bagged with the toast, weeded Took it to trial, beat it Now he feel he undefeated He mean it Nothing To Lose, tattooed around his gun wounds Heavy in the game, embedded in his brain And me I feel the same for this money and diamonds Specially if my daughter cryin, I ain't lyin Y'all know the signs Verse 3 We agreed to shoot till we silly Because niggas could be hidin in showers with Mac Billy's So I freaked em The telly manager was Puerto Rican Gloria, from Historia, I went to war with her Peeps in 91, stole a gun from her workers And they took drugs, they tried to jerk us We blaze they place, long story Glo seent my face, got shook Thought a nigga was comin for the safe Now she breakin, shut up, 112, whats shakin A jamaican, some bitches I swear They look gay In a black Range Rover Been outside all day If its trouble let me know, I'll be on my way Please I got kids to feed, I done seen you make niggas bleed Nightmare, this B word don't leave Ron, get the gasoline This spot, we bout to blow Lets get the cash before the cops and Range Rover cats notice Its room 112 Right by the staircase, perfect place When they evacuate, they meet they fate Ron pass the gasoline The nigga gave me kerosene !@#$ it, its flammable My hunger is unexplainable Strike the match, just what I expected The dred kid ejected in seconds And here come two Opposite sexes One black, one Malaysian We in the hallway waitin patient As soon as she hit the door we start blastin I saw her brains hit the floor Ron laughin I swear to God I hit MaxiPriest at least 12 times in the chest Spint around, shot the chick in the breast She cryin, headshots put her to rest Pop open the briefcases, nothin but Franco faces The spots hot, sprinklers, alarm systems Thats when other guests start to slip in Its time for us to get to dippin I know them niggas in the Range is on they way up Flippin, pistol grippin I know they clippin The hallway, got real loud and crowded They walked right past us I dont know how they allowed it The funny thing about it Through all the excitement They Range got towed, they double parked by a hydrant Stupid mother!@#$ers" Again, it's onery, pretentious, violent, odious...at first blush. But it's UNDENIABLY poetry. It's a narrative. Biggie is telling a story. It's no different than "Goodfellas," or "Scarface," or "Godfather," only without the visual component. The gentleman provided a window into his world. He told a story. There was exposition. There was rising action. There was Denouement. There was a conclusion. This is not artistically devoid. There is redeeming social value. There is a level of skill and proficiency required to write a good story, replete with humor, angst, drama, action, plot, and character introduction/discussion. And his story was told in 4 minutes, set to rhythm and a rhyme scheme for ease of digestion. Now there is some rap that is loud, obnoxious, crap that doesn't tell a story, isn't narrative, and contains almost no words. But there are some early Metallica songs that fit that description as well. Rap is yet another valuable thing that originates from urban culture.

Again, I'll oblige you... MUCH of the great music, art, theatre of the 20th century is a direct result of urban culture and urban experience. Jazz, Blues, Rock and Roll, Hip Hop is all the result of urbanites, in largely depressed economic communities, reflecting on their experience and expressing it artistically through the conduit of music. I'll say again, Jazz, Blues, Rock and Roll, and Hip Hop at its core and genesis, is a reflection of urban culture. Wanna argue the creative, financial, aesthetic impact of these musical genres? Will you argue against their significance artistically, societally, or otherwise? We're now talking about global import. In a more attenuated way, the genres mentioned above impacted the development and evolution of pop - which, in combination with neo-country music, dominates the population of music listeners. No significance? No contribution? No redeeming value? At let's discuss "hip hop," or "rap" music. You trivialized it with your "slap the _____ up" characterization. But does that really encapsulate rap music? The rap industry generates billions of dollars for record companies and artists annually. Billions. This is an industry that originated from the streets. Anything legal that originates from a culture, and can be continually ascribed to a culture, that generates billions in revenue and employs hundreds of thousands of people world-wide, is per se relevant, meaningful, significant, valuable and impactful. Now on to the artistry: At its core, rap music is an art form that requires an understanding of rhythm, cadence, syntax, and vocabulary in order to tell an esoteric urban story in such a way that the listener can understand through a strategic use of metaphors and other literary devices. This endeavor is made more difficult because there is a rhyming scheme that must be adhered to, and a point communicated, that holds the listeners attention. Two examples - both salacious, and onery at first blush: Little Wayne - "6 foot 7 foot" "Excuse my charisma, vodka with a spritzer swagger down pat, call my **** Patricia Young Money militia, and I am the commissioner you dont want start Weezy, cause the F is for Finisher So misunderstood, but whats a World without enigma? two bitches at the same time, synchronized swimmers got the girl twisted cause she open when you twist her never met the B word, but I f-ck her like I missed her Life is the B word, and death is her sister sleep is the cousin, what a f-ckin family picture you know father time, we all know mother nature its all in the family, but I am of no relation no matter whos buying, Im a celebration black and white diamonds, f-ck segregation" At first blush, the subject matter is odious, rude, and appears to contain no redeeming social value. But not so. If you read it, it's entertaining. It flows. It tells a story. There are double entendres, metaphors, and a continual rhyme scheme throughout the verse. There are three levels of inter-relation. It's poetry, but not in any conventional sense. The next example will highlight this principle, and the dichomoty, better.

1. Tried to resist responding but couldn't. Your name as the thread author, coupled with the topic of "urban culture," was too attractive to maintain distance. 2. I could deconstruct this argument in a few different ways but then I'll get excoriated for being "too serious" and a party crasher so I'll refrain and just play along. 3. I have to add a substantive component to this enumeration so I will say that one of the few ways that I've found to improve the culture (with respect to schools in primarily urban districts) and, by extension, the performance, is a managed form of affirmative action to address an extant economic disparity. 3a. Thesis developed further here: http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/139324-affirmative-action/ 4. Also, at least in DC, there is the issue of folks benefitting from the affluent DC job economy, but spending that money in the surburban MD and VA communities. DC transients have made Montgomery, Howard, Fairfax and Loudon counties 4 of the wealthiest counties in the nation perennially. 4a. Not much attention is devoted to how the lack of tax revenue affects DC public schools and public programs. Generally there is a functional relationship between income and tax revenue. This is not the case when folks commute to huge cities for work, and leave to another state to do everything else. Places like DC, NYC (with people coming out of NJ, CT); Atlanta, etc. are running into the same problem. It only disadvantages lower income families because education is one of the first budget casualties. 5. "Urban culture" is actually really great. I'm a city guy. We lived in West Baltimore growing up, moved to SE DC, and ended up in PG County right on the DC line before I left for college. Don't know where you grew up and I won't make any assumptions. There is a lot to like about the inner city and inner city folks. A lot of good comes out of those communities as well. I can elaborate if you care to know. The most intelligent person that I've ever met aspired to be a rapper all throughout middle and high school. He was a product of DC schools. He walked around with a hoody and headphones singing Wu Tang songs all throughout high school. He was expelled from school and not allowed to attend prom because of a "bum rush" group fight in the cafeteria in 11th grade. He went on to school, received his PHd and was teaching holomorphic functions and differentiation formulas at Cornell before getting a job with the government (keeping the country safe - when you're as intelligent as he is, I guess you don't run into clearance issues). In his current line of work, they only want the best and the brightest. Not what you may have expected 20 years ago from the young man from the ghetto of Anacostia. I'm kind using "inner city" and "urban culture" synonymously. Not sure if you are as well or if you have some other point of reference. Since you didn't specify, I'll assume that by "urban culture" you mean the mentalities, groups, dispositions, aesthetic, paradigms, inclinations, associations, concerns, experiences, behaviors, and cultivations extant amongst inner city residents. 6. In brevity, my initial reaction to your post could be described thusly: 7. I want to conclude by saying again that there is a lot to like about urban culture. I think that you short-cutted and discounted some aesthetic, subjective and abstract qualities in your post.

The same one who thinks that Robert Griffin III is a second round talent? Read an interesting article on Parcells in the last year. The guy, at least recently, bails quickly and it's debateable whether or not he leaves an organization better than he finds them.