nkreed
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Posts posted by nkreed
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2 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:
Who is staking out Bar Bill today?
I thought it was Tempo!
Also, who's going to take him out hunting?
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14 minutes ago, Rochesterfan said:
That might be, but he clearly gets 2 feet down and that action causes him to fall - therefore the way they teach it is no matter how many body parts or tucking action occurs - he still must maintain the control.
If all of that had occurred 3 more feet in bounds and he flew as he did - got both feet down and continue to fall - his knee, hip, and shoulder all landed in bounds, but his head hit OOB and the ball moved - possession would have been established after his head hit OOB and it would still be incomplete.
The reason I say be careful is because any rule change where tucking might be considered a football action could have unseen consequences- such as a WR diving for a catch in bounds - gets hands on the ball and 2 feet down. As he is falling he tucks the ball and it comes loose as he hits the ground - based upon your new definition- that would be a catch and a fumble with the potential for a huge turnover.
I think the difference here is that Poyer established control and possession with 3 feet and a tuck. In essence, after he controlled the ball he tucked AND got a third foot down.
It's a bang bang play, but imo he clearly possesses the ball inbounds and establishes himself with the third foot. OOB actions don't matter at that point.
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1 minute ago, Rochesterfan said:
I guess I really do not understand how anyone could not understand the ruling. The Refs got it 100% correct and even though it sucks - that is exactly how that call should go based upon the rules.
Poyer did everything right - caught the ball and worked hard to get both feet down, but that action caused him to fall to the ground - now the rule becomes he must maintain control of the ball through contact with the ground.
Poyer clearly loses control as the ball moves when he hits the ground. The fact that he regains control without the ball hitting the ground is meaningless. The “official” catch does not occur until he has control and is on the ground in this situation and that occurs with him well out of bounds.
If that had happened in the middle of the field it is an interception at the point he regains control, but as that occurred OOB - it is just incomplete.
There is nothing crazy or controversial about the call - it is pretty consistently called that way along the sidelines and just because it negated an Int - doesn’t change they got the call correct.
I think there is a nuanced discussion about football move with control of the ball.
Poyer very clearly possesses with two feet in, tucks the ball and manages to get a third foot down. There's a belief that the surviving the ground doesn't come into effect in this situation, since he has clearly passed the three rules of control, body, and football move prior to being OOB.
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Might as well add the play...
https://twitter.com/J_poyer21/status/1598542205706199040?t=2mYZjktj0mWEcF1O-XfOog&s=19
For whatever reason I don't know how to embed a tweet on my phone.
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He had three feet in on the play with a tuck before he is OOB. I think it was a terrible enforcement of going to the ground. That third step with possession and tuck should have constituted a football move.
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Ugly, again, but it's a win.....
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1 minute ago, Mango said:
So am I crazy that I thought that might be a safety? I thought he got his feet down on the other side of the goal line then went out in the end zone.
Momentum brought him into endzone. That's a touchback.
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1 minute ago, Orlando Tim said:
Minkah never had full possession, as neither did Gabe until he ripped it back. If the run out back of endzome with both claiming ball I do wonder rule but at no point did either have ball fully till the end.
Surprisingly, I would think that simultaneous possession happens at that point, giving possession to the offense.
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7 minutes ago, Chaos said:
Refs need to put thier hands on players to separate them all the time. Players don't get to elbow a ref because they touched them.
That's in the thick of things and when engaged with others. This is when AJ was moving his own teammate away from the situation.
Also, refs get elbowed all the time in scrums, but they recognize that it happens. It wasn't a swing for Hussey.
Hussey initiated the contact and should expect a human reaction of elbowing back in the "get off me" style. That's expected and happens in every scrum.
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39 minutes ago, RobbRiddicksTDLeap said:
As for the Lamar 1st down, I thought they had added cameras to the down and distance markers to avoid this discussion. And if they haven’t, they should. They’ve added cameras everywhere else.
They did, but this was the far side away from that camera.
Also on the whole spotting of the ball when making a toe tap catch it has been said so many times that the player who is the key part. If they have a body part on the ground in bounds after catching a ball outside the field of play, the ball will be spotted at the position when the ball is when they gain possession. If they gain possession when the ball is out of play and they are not on the field of play but can establish back in bounds (in air, but can tap those toes inbounds) the ball will be placed at the position of the ball at that toe tap (last legal play).
If the player jumps off the ground and lands out of bounds then the ball spot is where it crosses out of bounds, since there is no other reference point to spot the ball. The ball is spotted where it goes over the vertical plane of the sideline. (Think where an official marks a punt OOB when it bounces out or goes out in the air)
This is a kinda simple rule to play out for the Lamar play. It's where the ball is as it goes over the inside plane of the sideline (since he's in the air). The spot looked pretty good for a split second decision. Officials really do have a tendency to get it right when they aren't told to let replay figure it out.
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I'm showing my (lack of?) age with these:
Lately this song has come back into my mind as a favorite because it's ominous(but really Ramin Djawdi's piano scores for popular songs are really fantastic!)
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2 minutes ago, Einstein said:
I thought the league got rid of the “surviving the ground” rule? I’m pretty sure they changed that a few years ago.
They did get rid of the rule, but for whatever reason, it hasn't really gone away.
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It was not a touchdown because the receiver was falling to the ground before the second point of contact (in this case 2nd foot). As a rule, the possession must be retained throughout contact with the ground. Davis was never going to the ground, so 2 points of contact with football move was the requirement.
The two plays are comparing apples to oranges.
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7 hours ago, Nextmanup said:
Josh's arm definitely completed a defined throwing forward motion, but the ball was already gone! The ball was flying through the air before Josh ever started his throwing motion; I think that one was definitely a fumble and would have been confirmed as such on review.
Automatically reviewed on all changes of possession.
3 minutes ago, Matt_In_NH said:It was a clear as day fumble and they did review it. Called Turnovers are not challengeable because they are automatically reviewed.
Like minds!
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4 minutes ago, Iverwig said:
We can’t say that. Davis had two feet down before the ball moved.
The play doesn't end with 2 feet down. He'd need to make a football move before the catch is completed. It was too close to challenge, he would have lost.
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4 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:
It is more than just “put a heating element under the grass”. Right kind if sod, how it is installed, how it is maintained, etc…
…and a good point made upthread, how much sun will the field get…depending on how large of a roof structure is installed.
But on that case cant they simulate sun with lights. Combined with under soil heat, I don't see the issue with grass anymore. Technology has advanced significantly and made these systems more economical.
Like this:
https://recreationalsystemsint.com/products/rsi-sports-leds/stadium-grass-grow-lighting
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This is the right call. Only fumbler can advance ball.
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That's what you get when the refs gift billions of first downs to Cincy.
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That was intentional grounding.
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I like O'Sullivan's notice of the cancelled throw to Crowder on Allen's TD. It was assumed to be a pump fake, but it wasn't. If Josh threw the ball like he was going to, that was going to be intercepted and possibly a pick 6.
Also I saw McKenzie's speed on the Diggs TD made him wide open. He stopped his route at the sticks and had a massive amount of space because the DBs back was to him.
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They are really trying, but that production looked like a small step above public access TV. That's growing pains I know, but wow it's distracting!
Other than that, good for her if she cashed in. I just don't see too much draw for FanDuelTV. Maybe they will release numbers that prove me wrong.
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14 minutes ago, YoloinOhio said:
I'm confident that the WR is still Ramsey's responsibility there. Even if he's blocking, he needs to stay on his man. Hopefully someone who can diagnose man vs zone will let me know if this was a zone from 2 high, or a quarters look with the safety rotating down to put 8 in the box, leaving a cover 1 backend with the CBs having man responsibilities.
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1 hour ago, wjag said:
His discussion of his release point, spirals in the wind and preferring to throw against the wind were interesting to me.
It also explains a ton about his overthrows with the wind at his back. Imagine a new stadium where the swirling wings are toned down.
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Just now, CSBill said:
Just hoping to be the one to hit 250.
Nope not you. Me?
The "ball did not survive the ground" rule
in The Stadium Wall
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Absolutely an interception. 3 steps=possession prior to OOB.
I get the going to ground when full possession isn't established. However with three feet in and control of the ball throughout the process should have constituted possession. The going to ground there shouldn't be entertained. The league overturned this because they assumed that pretty Poyer didn't have the ball with the first foot down.
Additionally, how does looking at your feet with the ball in your hands tucked into your body and hitting that third step in not a football move for possession?