hondo in seattle
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Posts posted by hondo in seattle
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good we don't need any "talented" uncoachable players on this team.
I recall Belichick once saying that the #1 thing he looks for in draft prospects and FAs is coachability. He said they give players hard coaching in NE and he doesn't want players who can't be coached or don't want to be coached.
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Byrd's attitude is crappy right now but we have a year - maybe two - to change that. Byrd's only getting to know Donnie Henderson, Pettine and Marrone right now for the first time. Let's see if they can build a rapport with him and get him excited about being a Bill.
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When we drafted EJ, I was hoping that Kolb would do well during camp & preseason and be our opening day starter. And then we could work EJ in when he was fully ready.
Now I'm praying for EJ's knee and really hoping I see him under center against the Pats.
It's curious that Tuel, an UDFA, may be the only rookie QB starting when the 2013 season commences. Football, like life, is so unpredictable.
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I gave my reasoning for thinking that it is a mistake. It is really easy to find The Chris Hogan's and Kamar Aiken's of the world. If you cut them you can bring in a guy the next year just like them. They grow on trees. Charles Rogers was obviously a huge bust but I would rather give that talent a chance to done out. Worst case scenario you lose Brad Smith, Hogan or Easley. How many games are any 1 of those guys going to win you? I am no saying that Da'Rick would have either but in time he might have. They certainly cut him early to try to sneak him onto the PS. They gave him the Michael Jasper treatment. A project with a lot of raw ability that with either become a star (Jason Peters) or flame out (Michael Jasper). IMO, you see if he becomes a star at the expense of a guy that you can easily replace.
I understand and respect your logic. And I agree it's better to gamble on a future superstar than to settle for certain (and replaceable) mediocrity.
But how long should Marrone and his staff wait for the potential to manifest? How much loafing can they suffer before cutting bait? How long should they risk Rogers work-ethic and other issues becoming contagious? I think they gave Rogers enough time and made the right decision.
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I don't get people still standing by Rogers. But I stand by what I wrote a couple days ago...
Roger's problems go way beyond his drug history. Here's what one predraft scouting report had to say about his weaknesses:
"Off-field maturity and on-field effort have been issues. Stops his route at times if not the primary target. Body language on the field can be defeating. Lacks great explosiveness to run by corners, no extra gear. Will struggle to track the football at times. Not a very instinctual receiver, doesn't always run the routes he should, doesn't fight to get open when the play breaks down."
http://www.nfl.com/d...gers?id=2540179
We've already heard of similar things at St. John Fisher - like Rogers loafing back to the huddle instead of running like the other receivers. This doesn't sound like the kind of guy that Marrone wants on the team.
Right now the NFL WR that Dar'rick Rogers most resembles is Charles Rogers who also had tremendous potential but never accomplished anything as a pro because of issues with maturity and consistency of effort. "Potential" just isn't worth much without some other important attributes.
Ike Hilliard will have to do heroic work as receivers coach for Rogers to survive the Turk.
http://forums.twobillsdrive.com/topic/160674-bills-wrs-revisited/page__st__40
It takes more than an athletic receiver's body to be a good NFL WR. Rogers just doesn't currently possess the necessary mix of skills and attitude needed to succeed.
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Ever watch him at Tennessee as a freshman/sophomore against soon to be probowl nfl corners? It'd answer a lot of your questions about what people see.
Evidentally, Marrone wasn't seeing the same thing. Or, probably more precisely, he was seeing too much of the bad stuff and not enough of the good stuff.
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I think Whaley will be scouring the waiver wire for a CB over the next couple days. I wonder who might become available.
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Color me unsurprised. The guy loafs, doesn't pay attention and rarely produces. What kind of message would Marrone be sending if he kept Rogers based on perceived potential? It just wasn't going to happen.
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http://www.nfl.com/n...out-eight-weeks
Our best young player on offense (EJ) is hurt. Now our best young player on defense is hurt.
Not an auspicious beginning to the 2013 season.
Greg Rosenthal of NFL.com writes:
"It's a crushing blow for new defensive coordinator Mike Pettine. The former New York Jets coordinator was going to count on Gilmore to cover the opposing team's best receiver, like Antonio Cromartie and Darrelle Revis once did in New York. This injury will limit Pettine's creativity and force a rough-looking starting cornerback group to start the season."
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Like some others, I think the Bills keep Tuel. I don't think Hackett relishes the idea of trying to teach 2 QBs his offense with 2 weeks remaining before the opener. Let's remember that Hackett is OC and QB coach both. He doesn't have a lot of time for make-up classes.
That leaves Leinart, Lewis and Kolb battling for one spot. I'm guessing Kolb goes to IR and Lewis goes to PS if still eligible.
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I disagree that it was a bad move to put CJ back in the game mostly because CJ said he wanted to go back in.
I also agree with the coaching mentality that you want to get the player to "get back on that horse."
The subtext of Spiller's career can be seen in the two most infamous coaching statements attached to his career:
1) "Cj was getting winded out there."
2) "We're gonna run CJ until he pukes."
Hackett and Marrone look to me like they're trying to toughen CJ up and get him ready for heavy usage.
We have a board full of posters who think that CJ didn't get the ball enough last year and want to see him get many more touches this year.
I'd say that you can't mentally and physically prepare a running back for a major role by hiding him on the bench.
IMO the only way putting him back in the game is if there was a real injury involved that CJ and the training and medical staff somehow missed. Other than that I think the backlash is an overreaction, much like the reaction to the game itself.
CJ had a cut? And for that some fans didn't want him back in? A cut? A boo-boo?
If he had torn a ligament or sprained an ankle or something like that, Marrone would need to keep him out. Otherwise, I agree with San Jose.
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The guy already had a storied injury history when they decided to keep him instead of Tavaris Jackson. Shows a complete lack of foresight.
I understand why OBD decided to sign Kolb and give him a look. But I couldn't agree with you more about TJax. Kolb had a record of fragility and to get rid of the only other veteran QB struck me as strange. Depending on EJ's recovery, we could end up starting Matt Leinart against the Pats with a mere two weeks of preparation. Bad news.
For the Bills sake, but - more imporantly - for Kolb's sake, I hope he's okay and able to safely resume his career.
And I hope to see a healthy EJ under center when NE comes to town.
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I have a different theory. The quick pace offense has some inherit strengths and weaknesses. The major risk with that fast paced offense is that if you don't get enough first downs, and have too many three and out series, you are putting your defense in jeopardy by having them too exhausted. I don't have the stats on hand but I'm sure that the Skins ran a lot more plays than the Bills. The major differential in plays can make a difference on performance.
This has been discussed in other threads.
The old K-Gun often acted in a hurry-up mode. Then again, that offense had Hall-of-Famers on it: Kelly, Thomas, Lofton and - hopefully - Reed. With all that talent, it was likely to get first downs.
I wonder how wise it is to run a up-tempo offense with much less talent. It's going to produce a lot of 3-and-outs. I really hope Pettine and the Bills staff are working hard on the conditioning of the defensive unit, because they're going to be on the field a lot.
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With all the cute remarks here, I am putting a depressingly serious thought on here. This is a General Manager mistake, complicit with the head coach. WHY were there only three QB's in camp? Answer.....save a few bucks...should have been a fourth who at least knew the playbook at this point. From the coaches point of view...more reps for those left on the roster. But, both GM and coach are rookies. So, the Bills will pay for having a rookie GM and a rookie Head Coach. And they will pay big, we are now officially in the Clowney derby. These are mental errors on the part of the Bills management, we are used to that. I thought that a new QB should have been signed when Manuel went down....but, still saving bucks then. Wahley did not make the calls until after the game yesterday. To little, to late. Way to late.
I share the bolded concern. I was surprised and dismayed when we cut TJax. That left us with one experienced-but-fragile QB and two rookies. The fragile vet has been hurt twice since then and now we're flying in retreads who have no understanding of our offense.
I get that they wanted to give EJ more reps. But whether Jackson was in camp or not, they could have given EJ exactly the number or reps they wanted.
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I think Chan was a better de facto OC than most people give him credit for. When Chan came to Buffalo, we had a poor line, no QB worth mentioning, a forgettable TE, one WR with talent and a couple good RBs. Somehow he got some decent production out of that.
CJ averaged 6 yards per carry last year partly because Chan didn't run him until he puked. Chan carefully picked the optimal times and optimal plays to use CJ.
And now Levitre is gone. So, yeah, I am worried about the running game.
Then again, it's only preseason. We don't know yet how effectively Marrone & Hackett will maximize the talent they do have.
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The two preseason wins proved nothing. The preseason loss proved nothing.
We're probably not as good as we looked against the Colts. We're probably not as bad as we looked against the Skins. We won't find out until the regular season gets under way. I'm taking this game like any other preseason game... with a grain of salt.
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EJ Manuel won the starting job tonight. He was the best player.
+1
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It was painful to watch but I hope this ends the silliness that Tuel ought to be allowed to compete with EJ for the starting spot.
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Ever watch him at Tennessee as a freshman/sophomore against soon to be probowl nfl corners? It'd answer a lot of your questions about what people see.
I've seen his highlights. It's the 'lowlights' that concern me. Maybe I don't know how to evaluate college ball but even his highlights don't convince me he's better than some of the other receivers we have on the roster. Guys who loaf, guys who don't block, guys who don't run the right routes, aren't great by definition. A lot has to change for Rogers to become great.
I'm reallying hoping Hilliard, Hacket and Marrone can make those changes in Rogers and prove you right. I'm just not exactly expecting it.
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If I drank beer, I'd drink one for Ronald F. Theel.
I was living in California at the time of "The Comeback." My wife (now ex) came in when the score was 35-3 and tried to persuade me to take her shopping. Although I was miserable, I refused to budge. She asked, "Has any team ever come back from a score like that?" I wasn't definitively sure but grumbled, "No... but anything's possible." She responded with something like, "Well then, don't be stupid. You know they're going to lose so it's better to take me shopping."
I wish I had instead been able to watch the game in person with someone like your dad. You have great memories to treasure. May he rest in peace.
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Carlin Isles was both a sprinter and football player (RB) at Ashland University. As you can imagine watching the vid, he was a talented KR. However, at 5' 8" and 157 lbs, he's just too small for the NFL.
But his speed, open field running skills, and understanding of angles make him a natural at rugby. Still new to the sport, he's tearing it up.
http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/9482734/carlin-isles-future-us-rugby
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I don't get all the love for Rogers. Yes, I know he's strong & athletic and that some draft pundits (not all) thought he might have 1st or 2nd round talent. They thought that about Woods, too. The difference is that Woods was actually drafted in the 2nd round because he's a polished, talented WR with his head on straight. Rogers wasn't drafted in the 1st, 2nd, or any round because not a single team thought he was worthy of even a 7th round pick. Professional scouts, apparently, have no love for the guy.
I hope the Rogers lovers on this board turn out to be correct and the scouts wrong. But from what we've seen of Rogers so far in preseason (and what's been reported about Rogers performance in practices), he's on the bubble. And if he gets cut, he won't end up on the PS because some other team will sign him to kick the tires and see if there's anything there.
Roger's problems go way beyond his drug history. Here's what one predraft scouting report had to say about his weaknesses:
"Off-field maturity and on-field effort have been issues. Stops his route at times if not the primary target. Body language on the field can be defeating. Lacks great explosiveness to run by corners, no extra gear. Will struggle to track the football at times. Not a very instinctual receiver, doesn't always run the routes he should, doesn't fight to get open when the play breaks down."
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2013/profiles/darick-rogers?id=2540179
We've already heard of similar things at St. John Fisher - like Rogers loafing back to the huddle instead of running like the other receivers. This doesn't sound like the kind of guy that Marrone wants on the team.
Right now the NFL WR that Dar'rick Rogers most resembles is Charles Rogers who also had tremendous potential but never accomplished anything as a pro because of issues with maturity and consistency of effort. "Potential" just isn't worth much without some other important attributes.
Ike Hilliard will have to do heroic work as receivers coach for Rogers to survive the Turk.
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Leadership has got to be high on the list. Maybe the first thing. If you don't have it, you're toast.
I agree with this.
And how about the ability to read defenses? Which implies a wililngness to study film.
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Does the deal look bad in hindsight, perhaps, but there was no way of knowing how good Goodwin would be. Plus, only preseason. McKelvin has done it in the regular season. And he has good cover skills, just TERRIBLE ball skills. Those can be corrected with proper coaching. The talent is there, hopefully it comes together this year. If so, we got a steal.
I agree with the first highlighted sentence. And I'm hoping the 2nd highlighted sentence proves to be true.
I. Rapoport on Tuel/Manuel.
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I get what you are saying but I don't know if I agree. Whaley could have said something like, "Jeff's done some good things and there are some things he needs to improve." Or, "EJ's hurt so Jeff's gonna need to step up." Or something else equally vague and noncommittal. Saying there's a 'little something to him' seems like a genuine sentiment. Though it's not an overwhelming compliment.