hondo in seattle
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Posts posted by hondo in seattle
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The OL has not played well, but why is everyone's play deteriorating with Marrone and Hackett in charge? Glenn, Wood, Pears all had the worst seasons of their careers. I wonder how much of the OL struggles result from poor scheme and coaching.
This is an interesting point. When Marrone was named the HC of the Bills, I remember hearing good things from NO about the work Marrone did with the OL. I thought it was curious at the time because Marrone was the OC for the Saints and I didn't note anyone praising his OC skills with Sean Payton running the show. It seemed that as OC, Marrone was really a glorified OL coach but at least he was good at that.
Yet our OL sucks and players seem to be regressing.
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@RQUINN619: #Bills Must Prioritize OL Over QB in 2015 Offseason (vines&adv stats) http://t.co/GaNgzGvrYH via @TheBillsMafia http://t.co/bVOGmaE7Cd
Good read. A lot of research.
Thanks for the link. This was a great article with some good insight on how the OL play impacted the offense and play calling. The old truism, "Games are won and lost in the trenches" is still valid. We excelled in the D trenches with 3 of 4 players making the Pro Bowl. We were horrid in the offensive trenches with just two players with above-average grades and others near the worst at their position.
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Food for thought from http://billsmafia.co...-nfl-offseason/
The Bills’ offensive line has surrendered 37 sacks, 82 QB Hits and 113 pressures. In simpler terms, Kyle Orton is getting hurried, hit or sacked on 38.2% of his dropbacks, the sixth highest rate among 27 qualifying quarterbacks…
It’s tough to get passes off when a quarterback’s own lineman is sitting in his lap the instant the ball is snapped. So, Hackett relied on operating out of the shotgun. Move Orton a few yards back, create space between himself and the defenders in hopes of giving an extra split second to make a play. That’s why 449 of the Bills’ 556 dropbacks were out of a shotgun formation.
But sometimes even that isn’t enough, as Orton’s snap-to-sack time of 3.14 seconds was the fourth fastest time at his position. Another way to limit an opponents’ pass rush is to get the ball out quickly, using screens, slants and quick, high-percentage short throws to move down the field. That’s why Orton’s average time from snap to attempt was 2.32 seconds, the third quickest time among 27 qualifying quarterbacks.
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Agree with hondo except QB. Who you going to get? Pickings are poor from college or free agency. Use a 5th or 6th for a shot from college and hope EJ has learned a little..
That's the big challenge. We might just have to keep Orton because the alternatives may be even weaker. Hopefully, we'll build a better team around him.
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I'm in the pissed category.
To make next year different, here's my Christmas List....
Three new coaches (OC/QB/OL), two new offensive guards, and one new QB.
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When we traded Lynch, I assumed the Bills knew something I didn't. On the surface, it was a terrible trade. But if Lynch, for example, was a drug abuser on the verge of a suspension, the trade would make sense.
Living in Seattle, I can tell you that the fans here feel they stole Lynch in that trade and they're overjoyed to have him.
He's kept his nose mostly clean since he's been here. He's described by the Hawk players as a good teammate.
I'm not sure what drove the Bills to rid themselves of Lynch but I think hindsight says it was a bad move, whatever you may think of Lynch as a person.
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Most overrated coach the Bills have ever had.
As much as people hate Hackett they loved Gailey equally.
Why? ONE win vs New England* when Brady had a meltdown, the refs forgot who they worked for, and the Bills fot EVERY lucky bounce. They won by 3 and Fitz and Gailey were heroes forever.
Chan was bereft of player talent but did a credible job with the little he had - at least on the offensive side of the ball. Fitz, CJ, Stevie all enjoyed the best years of the careers under Chan.
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Chan got offers but decided to retire and garden.
He's still crazy as a loon. I'll never forget 5 wide on third and inches, or Gailey calling for deep throws with a lead against Tennesee and 2 minutes on the clock. Guy was out of his mind.
True, but at least he was unpredictable.
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To be fair, he looked solid the first few games.
Yep. And I was encouraged.
After yesterday's performance, I'm falling off the Orton bus.
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For a while, Chan made Fitz look like a capable NFL QB.
He made Spiller look like a Pro Bowl RB.
He made Stevie look like a Pro Bowl WR.
He made a weak OL look good.
Good coaches get the best out of their people. Marrone/Hackett don't do that. Gailey did. So, yes, I'd bring him back as OC.
Oops, just noticed C Biscuit making almost the very same point...
He made Fitz, SJ, Nelson, Chandler into viable NFL players. Spiller was one of the best rbs in the NFL under him. The oline was a strength.
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I am actually getting worse as i age(52)...just the opposite as you LOL.This Simmons column spelled it out perfectly. http://espn.go.com/e...=simmons/020204
The fear(irrational as it may be) that I will be in the ground before this team wins a Championship makes every stupid decision, screwed up play, bad call etc just send me through the roof. I dont want no stinking continuity ...i want freaking wins against 2-12 teams!
I am getting to be that guy I said i would never be...the one that is no fun to watch a game with. That sucks
The last time I was in Buffalo I saw a sweatshirt reading "Just one before I die" and instantly bought it as it perfectly captured my feelings on this subject. I wore that shirt yesterday and wanted to burn it by the end of the game.
I'm 55. With 32 teams in the NFL, the probability is the Bills will win one SB by the time I'm 87 (about the average life expectancy for a male in the US).
But then probability says the Bills should have won a SB by now. They have not. And probability says the Bills should have won about half their games since their inception. They have not. The Bills have a tendency to confound probability in an unhappy way.
Intellectually when you reflect on the careers of guys like Bill Belicheck (who was fired by the Browns), you have to realize that coaching staffs need time to mature and do their work. Emotionally however, under the circumstances, I get impatient. For example, I want Hackett fired now. I'm tired of waiting.
P.S. Your fear is not irrational at all.
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I've never felt more strongly that Hackett needs to be fired than I do right now after this debacle.
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Let's not forget McKelvin is missing too.
Kiko, Leodis, Marcell, Stephon... that's a lot of talent to be injured at the same time.
Somehow Orton's stats don't look terrible but he was terrible to watch. The offensive line was even worse. The D didn't play it's best game today but I walked away blaming the offense.
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Most people will blame the QB. However, could anybody really excel playing in that offense today. The line,OC and OL coach (who always seems to go unmentioned), were the main culprits today.
Good point. We often blame Hackett and the offensive line - and rightly so IMHO - for our offensive woes. But when you watch our offensive linemen miss assignments, I'm not sure how Pat Morris escapes criticism. Our OL was horrific today and he's the guy paid to make sure they are not horrific.
Morris has been an NFL OL coach since the 90s so he must know something. But it's not translating to the field very well this year.
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I've made both of these statements in other thread but they are worth repeating
1.) If we had a competent QB who could make simple throws, we would be easily in the playoffs and this conversation about the OC would not be happening
2.) The offense is Marrone's offense. I don't think Hackett has autonomy, therefore he does not deserve the blame. Unless Marrone is willing to give up control of the offense to a new OC, I think Hackett stays.
I think Hackett has some authority but this is indeed Marrone's offense. And I think Hackett deserves blame because he's running Marrone's system (which he helped develop at Syracuse) to the very best of his ability. I don't think Hackett would be any better if he was granted more autonomy.
If Marrone is pressured into firing Hackett, things will become interesting for Marrone. Right now, Marrone is running his offense through his protege who shares the same offensive philosophy. How well would Marrone handle an OC who was an independent thinker and wanted autonomy?
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Russ Brandon's job has been to make money and expand the fanbase of the Bills. He's done a great job at that. It's the GM's job to put a winning football team on the field.
Yep. Let's hope Whaley is as good at his job as Brandon has been at his.
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45 pages? Jeesh
I'm too lazy to look but I wonder how long the AFC Playoff thread was last year?
Compared to where we've been, it's nice to be borderline relevant.
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A question from the article, for the knowledgeable fans here. Marrone is quoted in that article: "Obviously, they played at a very high level," Marrone said of his defense. "We were able to go in and, early on, we took away some of the stop-nines they were trying to run and get them to the second read..."
What exactly are 'stop-nines'?
kj
I guess you and I are the only ones who don't know.
Here's my best guess though: a "nine" is a streak on the standard WR route tree. I'm guessing a "stop-nine" is where a WR looks like he's going to streak but then stops.
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Huh?
We're going to trade a young QB who just might some day be good for an older QB with poor leadership skills who has proven he will never be good?
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Hughes could recognize his performance is tied to Mario, Kyle and Dareus. If he leaves for a lesser team, so might his production. So he leaves a mil or two on the table in order to continue being a stud? Might happen.
There might be something to this. Jerry must like being successful after 3 years of being labeled a bust. Sometimes players thrive in one environment and wither in another. For Jerry, that risk might change the calculus of the contract negotiations a little.
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I just want to thank Bandit for starting this thread and join the chorus singing that this is TBD at it's very best.
There's too much uneducated opinion and too many ad hominem attacks on internet boards for my taste.
This thread, however, has educated me.
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The idea that business comes before football isn't new.
When Polian and Littman weren't getting along, who did Ralph fire?
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While it's true that when an offense works well, the playmakers get the lion's share of the credit.
But the corollary is not true that when an offense struggles, the OL gets all the blame. Usually the QB get's the greatest share of the criticism. The OC will get his share, too.
Our OL is getting blamed because they deserve it. But EJ, Orton, Freddy, CJ, Hackett and the WRs have all been getting blamed this year too. Personally, I don't see the OL receiving an unfair share.
And the way the OL should respond to the blame is by opening holes for our backs and keeping defenders off our QB.
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Some really good discussions here but I don't understand why anyone is making assumptions about "propaganda" or "scapegoats."
Obviously, every business is conscious of its reputation. The NFL is no different. What the public is told is always PR. That's not to say it's dishonest. In many cases, it's simply an edited version of the truth. And that's all I expect from Whaley and Marrone - a redacted version of reality.
But PR doesn't preclude accountability. I'm sure Whaley holds Marrone accountable in ways we cannot see just like Marrone holds his coaches accountable and those coaches hold their players accountable. Whether they're holding the right people accountable in the right ways remains to be seen. Except it will mostly remain unseen. I really don't see any evidence that Marrone will create a scapegoat and I never heard him make Ike Hilliard into a scapegoat for all the problems we had last year. Leaders who assign their failures to scapegoats quickly lose their credibility and I hope Marrone doesn't play that game. My sense, based solely on the comments that get reported in the media, is that the players actually respect Marrone.
Like the OP, though, I really do hope Marrone takes dramatic action to fix this offense. Clearly Marrone/Hackett have failed to create a really efficient passing attack (as the OP asserts) or an effective running attack. We're poor at sustaining drives, poor in the Red Zone, poor in general.
A picture's worth 1,000 words
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
While I'm not saying Orton is good, the fact is that he's getting the balls out of his hands faster than most other QBs in the NFL. My guess it's because he has no confidence in the offensive line.
(Orton's snap to attempt time is 2.32 seconds, third fastest of 27 qualifiers).