hondo in seattle
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Posts posted by hondo in seattle
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"When a pickpocket walks down the street, all he sees are pockets."
The OP isn't an EJ fan - clearly - and only seems to notice the bad stuff and miss the good.
It's hard to know what the players truly think of EJ. But certainly a number of them have praised him this year.
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I think the Bills have 10 or 11 new starters (counting old starters in new positions). It may take a while for the team to gel (if it ever does).
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The draft probably wouldn't have helped with a proven backup QB. The problem with drafting a QB every year (as suggested by some) is there are only some may reps to go around. And there is only so much (required) attention you can give to a developing QB. When Washington drafted both RG3 and Cousins, I wondered how they expected to develop two young QBs at once., That's very hard to do.
But don't assume Whaley wasn't looking for an experienced backup until last week. He may have attempted to sign someone else sooner (we are now fairly sure he's been trying to sigh Orton for awhile), I think some here think he should have just signed anyone, just to sign them. That's a crazy idea, IMO, If it isn't a guy you like, why bring him in?
Fair enough point. But even 1st round QBs have a fairly low success rate in the NFL. Given the importance of the position, I was among those advocating for the Bills to draft another QB this year.
If Manuel crashes and burns this year, Orton will suffice as a caretaker. But we'll have to wait until next year to roll the dice in the draft again.
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Orton is, by far, my favorite pick from the QBs realistically available.
In 2009 and 2010, when Orton started for Denver and had some talent around him, he completed about 60% of his passes for a QB rating of about 87. His more recent stats with Dallas are even better, though in very limited action.
Having started 70 games for 4 different teams, he's a perfect mentor for EJ.
Regards to comparisons to Fitz: I really have trouble understanding how anyone who witnessed both them play could rate them as equals. I really like Fitz but his arm is neither as strong nor as accurate as Orton's.
As for Orton's pay, I have to guess that we paid what we had to pay. I'm glad Whaley and company anted up instead of going the season with Tuel as the backup.
If EJ fails, Orton will take over and do reasonably well. Then next year we'll draft another QB with an early pick.
If EJ succeeds, he'll be aided by Orton's experience.
This was a very good signing.
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Given that none of our 3 young QBs have improved much - if at all - from last year, does anyone else worry about the coaching they're receiving?
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This is the second year in a row that we have signed QBs the week of the last pre season game and played them (I assume Palmer will play some) as a tryout. This year we don't have Kevin Kolb to kick around either.
Reeks of incompetence indeed.
I would love to know who made the decision to roll with the same QBs we had last year this year.
I actually thought Lewis could be a good #2 when I watched him last year. Considering how little preparation he had, I thought he looked okay when thrown into action. And Tuel seemed to have a live arm and just needed to be coached up.
Apparently Whaley thought similarly. And we both turned out to be wrong. So now we're shopping and kicking tires. OBD clearly made a mistake but I don't know if it "reeks of incompetence."
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Whats the point of this?
Different era, completely different game when Kelly was playing.
I don't think it is a "completely different game." Certainly both the rules and offense schemes have evolved in ways that help QB stats. But football is still football.
I think the stats tell a story: neither EJ nor Jim were stellar in their first ten starts. But that's a pretty meaningless story. Lots of HOF QBs have had crappy starts as have lots of sh*tty QBs.
Nothing in these numbers tell us what kind of QB EJ will be.
EJ lovers think they see something beyond the numbers - strong arm, good study habits, etc. - that will help him eventually excel in the NFL.
EJ haters think they see something beyond the numbers - "slow eyes," lack of competitive passion, etc. - that will prevent him from excelling in the NFL.
The numbers themselves don't tell us much about EJ's potential.
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If you were a real Spitoons fan, you would know that McDermott was cut in '33.
And they cut him early so he would have the opportunity to latch on with another team.
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I'd sign Orton. Orton would need some time to learn the offense which would give EJ time to prove he's ready to step up.
I'm not sure how long I'd wait but at some point if EJ wasn't producing, I'd hand things over to Orton (who is not a bad QB).
Even if Orton didn't end up starting, he'd be a good mentor for EJ and an insurance policy if EJ got hurt.
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Fans tend to see things quicker than the teams do....
Really?
It's like me saying I know more about your work than you do.
I used to be an army officer and was struck by the clueless arrogance of some of the correspondents reporting on military operations. They had no idea what they were talking about but pontificated with confidence.
Marrone, Hackett, et al might not be geniuses. They might not be winners. But they sure as heck know more about NFL talent evaluation than anyone here.
We have no idea what concerns the coaching staff are sharing with each other, or what schemes they might be devising to work around EJ's weaknesses. They're not going to talk about these things publicly of course.
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Preseason is never the time to panic.
We all remember Levy, Kelly and company going 0-4 in preseason in 1990. In fact, I don't believe the Bills ever had a winning preseason record during the SB years. Preseason is a time for vanilla offenses, vanilla defenses and talent evaluation. Not for panic.
When Trent Green injured himself in a preseason game in 1999, Rams fans began to worry. Worry turned to panic when they turned the team over to a former stockboy with a 47.2 QB rating in his limited NFL action. And thus began "The Greatest Show on Turf" - which produced a victory in SB XXXIV.
So I wait until we start screwing up in real games before I panic.
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An exceptionally quick, athletic, poised QB could have got this to Fred. But the main problem here is the OL broke down and did not provide adequate protection.
Hindsight is 20-20. Yes, EJ does seem to glance at Fred. But no QB will always make the perfect decision with a second or two to react when facing rapid unexpected pressure. This one play doesn't damn EJ. Lots of Hall of Fame QBs have made comparable errors.
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That doesn't answer the question. If you had a choice of Stevie or Hogan who are you giving the roster spot too?
Just to play devil's advocate, I'll chime in with Hogan because EJ will know where Hogan's going to be.
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From what I'm hearing, under 900 mill is an embarrassment to the NFL, and that because the bids are so low that the NFL is upset with Morgan Stanley who screwed this who thing up so badly with their "ultra restrictive non disclosure agreement"...ultra secretive bid process. The comish is going to try and speak to the Wilson trust into firing them.
Redo the entire process and have it open so there will be more competition in the bidding process allowing others to openly know what the bids are. This could draw out the sale until next year.
Just some speculation to think about here
The Jags reportedly sold for $760 million a couple years ago. Buffalo is small market and the sale of the Bills involves a restrictive lease and restrictive NDA. And who knows what else the trust is requesting that might temper the bidding.
Furthermore, we don't really know what anyone is bidding. Unnamed sources are reporting bids anywhere from $800 million to $1.3 billion.
I don't think any part of this process is embarrassing to the NFL. In fact, I suspect Jamestown native Roger Goodell is happy with how things are playing out so far. I bet he's a closet Bills fan so he'll be thrilled if Pegula buys the team at whatever price.
The only thing that would make Goodell and the NFL happier is if WNY builds a new state-of-the-art stadium.
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I really don't see this as a bad thing.
The players got a little feisty. Good! Players need to have some passion, some fight in them.
Marrone reined them in. Good. A coach is supposed to establish discipline.
Let me tell a story about when I was a tank platoon leader in the army stationed in Korea. A group of my soldiers got into a fight with a group of soldiers from another battalion. My battalion commander asked me about the event. I confessed it was true. He told me that it was unprofessional and couldn't be condoned. But then he added, speaking in a low voice, "But tell me something, do your guys win?" I replied in a serious tone, "Sir, we kicked their asses." And he said something to the effect of, "Great!!! The army's too soft these days. We want soldiers who are fighters - who have that warrior spirit!" He also took consolation that the losers were from another battalion, not his.
I think Marrone is like my old colonel. He has to establish discipline but, at the same time, appreciates the warrior spirit.
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Maybe Stevie needs to go and play in Houston where Fitz is the only QB in the league smart enough to know where Stevie is going.
I used to believe this (kind of) but now I wonder if Fitz just threw the ball toward some general area and Stevie got himself there.
Stevie is talented but his creative freelancing was hard on EJ and is apparently hard on Kap too.
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Good find, NoSaint. This isn't news but makes you wonder how this year might be different...
"Supporting the claim that establishing the run doesn’t necessarily mean play-action success are last year’s Bills (minus-.18 EPA). Buffalo led the league in rushing attempts but ranked last in EPA/play on play-action. For a team like the Bills, those numbers tend to have a significant relationship. Head coach Doug Marrone’s tendency to lean on his ground game was a way to protect his group of young quarterbacks, a group that isn’t set up to make the quick reads necessary on play-action throws."
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For someone who's a supposed expert on sports franchise finances, he's got a lot of basic facts wrong about the sale process. It wasn't Morgan Stanley that decided on a quick sale and it isn't Morgan Stanley that's dictating the tough bidding terms.
Yep. Good points.
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"The circus that has been masquerading as the sale of the Buffalo Bills has received three non-binding bids to date, each below $900 million, according to two sources familiar with the sale of the National Football League team. Both of these sources are not directly involved in the sale as of yet."
Are these sources any better than the other sources reporting different numbers?
And, more to the point, do we care - as long as a Buffalo loyalist wins the bidding?
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Long successful coaching careers don't always have auspicious beginnings.
In his one year as a NFL OC, BIll Walsh's Chargers scored below the league average. In his first two years as a HC with the 49ers, he finished 2-14.
BB went 36-44 as HC of the Browns before finding success with the Pats.
Marv Levy went 4-12 his first year as a NFL HC, 2-5 his first partial season with the Bills.
Marrone is a young HC. Hackett is a young OC. Both need to grow and improve and they probably will.
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That's kind of true. But one of the reason's Kelly is remembered so well (and is a HoF'er) is that he was not afraid to let it fly. He had his share of bad INT's too, but he was a gamer. The completion percentage stat is way overrated in my opinion. Not nearly as important as # of touchdowns, yards per attempt and W/L record.
I mostly agree. But I think W/L record is way overrated. Flutie (or, Tebow, more recently) didn't win on the strength of their quarterbacking. They got wins from the play of their defenses.
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We don't know who the new owner will be. We don't know his football philosophy. We don't know if he'll keep Whaley or Brandon. We don't know how well Marrone will do this season. But we do know Marrone will be fired when the season is over.
Does this make sense?
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Kelly doesn't have the money to buy the Bills. He's apparently teamed with Gundlach who also doesn't have the money. Now they have talked with JBJ who also doesn't have the money.
The groups are looking for ways to put together a team that:
Has enough money.
Can satisfy the Trust on non-relocation.
Can get NFL approval.
Could we see a "Super Group" emerge to challenge Pegula? Wouldn't shock me in the least.
Certainly seems like what they're shooting for. But it's awfully late in the game. And who - besides JBJ - really needs Kelly? And who - besides the TO Group - really needs JBJ?
Pegula and Golisano can both do the deal on their own. Maybe Trump could use Kelly for PR reasons.
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While I am concerned about Hackett, I'm not concerned about his preseason red zone play calling. I'm decidedly in the camp that says preseason is for practicing plays and evaluating talent. It's not a time for creative play-calling.
ESPN Power Rankings/Watkins Trade
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Whatever your point of view, didn't this ship already sail?