hondo in seattle
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Posts posted by hondo in seattle
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It's still all speculation but there seems to be three general possibilities regarding Ike's dismissal:
Ike and the players. Maybe Marrone didn't think he did a good job coaching and developing our young receivers. No one can claim our WRs excelled on the field.
Ike and the coaches. Perhaps Ike didn't get along with Hackett or one of the other coaches. Maybe he was argumentative with fellow coaches or criticized them behind their backs.
Ike outside the Bills. Maybe Ike has personal problems that interfered with work.
Marrone's comment about 'differences in philosophy' suggests - vaguely - the second possibility but it's hard to know. Marrone clearly didn't want to be specific.
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Why do people think that player quality on offense and defense matter, but think that Special Teams is 100% coaching?
Now, I am not saying that Danny Crossman shouldn't be scrutinized for the poor "teams" last year, but maybe there is some truth to him not having a good "core' of players dedicated to Special Teams.
Also, I think he had to deal with a LOT of turnover and new players on special teams, especially early in the year when it seemed that every DB on the roster was out injured. Early, the Bills were starting backup-backups at CB and S and filling in special teams with guys from the practice squad or guys just signed off the street.
One more time, Crossman should be scrutinized. I am just saying that players also have a big hand in special teams success.
McKelvin averaged something like 17 yards per punt return in 2011 and 2012. In 2013, he averaged, I think, 5.6 yds. That's a dramatic drop off. Did McKelvin suddenly become slow and clumsy? Or did the coaching change?
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Maybe Chan saw some real potential in Edwards that he just wasn't able to develop. Maybe Zimmer, a strong veteran DC, will be able to mentor Edwards in ways Chan couldn't. Zimmer will probably be calling the shots in any case.
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When you are offerred your first head coaching position, you take it. He'd be a fool not to even though it's Cleveland. You think Jay Gruden had second thoughts about accepting the Redskins HC position because he'd be working for Snyder? I strongly doubt it. Would you turn down a hefty pay raise at work because "it isn't the right fit?"
I used to think like this but no more. Your success or failure as a Head Coach is highly dependent on the quality and support of the front office. Al Davis - toward the end of his life - had trouble getting quality coordinators to interview for his perpetually open head coach position, and rightly so. If I were Pettine, I might pass if offered.
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We gave up more long runs than any team in the NFL... Driesbach had no NFL experience... He had never been a LB coach before... I guess Marrone considered Driesbach a swing and a miss.
Maybe Marrone or Pettine have a better replacement already lined up. I'm giving Marrone a pass on this one.
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I am sure most of the people looking at this thread already read the story about it in the Bucks Country paper, but if not, here is the link:
http://www.buckscoun...two-bills-drive
The guy seemed a little broken hearted and I feel bad for him. He obviously loved what he was dong. I have no idea whether he deserved to be fired or not, but clearly something was wrong with this defense.
Still, the article was a reminder that these are people too, and whatever your walk in life, it sucks to lose a job you love. I hope the guy lands somewhere else he likes as much as Buffalo.
Yeah, this article made me feel sad.
If Driesbach didn't see this coming, Pettine and Marrone did something wrong. This is Management 101. If someone is under-performing, they should be told what their mistakes and weakness are - so they have a chance to correct them - before termination. Driesbach seemed genuinely shocked, and clueless as to the reason why.
But we only have his side of the story and that may be all we ever get (unless JW digs up the other side).
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Then Marrone, in order to maintain public inegrity, would need to say something along those lines. It wouldn't have to be a public flogging of Crossman or excoriating his efforts to the media. It could simply be: "We've reviewed all of the film and spoken to our Coordinators and coaches and there are a few key areas that need to improve and I believe with this Off-Season we will. First, on STs we gave up too many return yards, missed too many blocks, didn't stay in our assigned lanes, and it cost us a few games and some key field position. But working with Danny, I know with another year and continued coaching this will turn around. We all know what's at stake." Boom...done....doesn't need to do more than recognize what every other fan in Buffalo sees: a statistically significant regression in the ST's performance and then indicate what will be done to remedy that fact. And in case you're about to argue that he doesn't "owe" us an explanation, again it was Marrone's words that said he knows how important the BILLS are to Western NY and its fans. If so...provide some idea as to how "accountability" is defined and how it relates directly to STs.
Just out of curiosity, why does Marrone need to "maintain public integrity"? Personally, I don't think he needs to explain his thinking on every single matter. What matters is that his players and coaches believe in him and I get the sense that they do (though who really knows outside the locker room?). The public doesn't need to believe. They'll believe when he starts winning. There are times when going public might not be in the best interest of the team.
On another note, I thought this quote in the Buffalo News was interesting...
'“That pains me, I’m not going to lie,” admitted Bills defensive line coach Anthony Weaver the week before the end of the season. “The thing that gets me is a lot of the time it’s gash plays. It’s not like they’re milking us for 5 yards at a time and working their way down the field. … To me it’s the 20-yarders, the 30-yarders, those are the things that are killing us.”'
While Weaver was unhappy with his own unit, he wasn't exactly praising the LB play either.
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I'd like to add their OL has really performed well. Not sitting back on their laurels every play to protect the pass has helped them defeat the DL by using the run drive blocks to wear them out. OL who constantly have to pass block often times wear out a lot faster. The Pats have really done something special the last 5 weeks of play. I can easily see them riding these RBs to the big show.
Ridley and blount are both FA IIRC and they also have Spikes and Edleman up for contract, too
+1
I wish our OL could open holes like the Pats line has been opening recently.
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I'm not sure QBR is the perfect stat for measuring QBs but that's really a moot point.
The bigger point is that we all know EJ didn't play very well in 2013 but none of us know how well he'll play in 2014.
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so, based on that, you're done with EJ, too, then, right?
jw
JW, it's not a fair analogy. Crossman has been in the league for years. He's not getting better. He doesn't have a record of making ST units better. EJ is in his first year as a pro and he's improving. We don't know what EJ's ceiling is. EJ deserves another year. Crossman probably didn't deserve his first year and has done nothing to prove the doubters wrong.
Just so we're all on the same page, here's how Danny Crossman's Special Teams units have ranked (according to Football Outsiders) since his first year at the post, 2005:
2005 - Carolina - 5th
2006 - Carolina - 24th
2007 - Carolina - 30th
2008 - Carolina - 10th
2009 - Carolina - 29th
2010 - Detroit - 11th
2011 - Detroit - 29th
2012 - Detroit - 30th
2013 - Buffalo - 30th
It's like a complete mystery. Maybe he just needs a certain profile of player to put together a solid unit? I don't know...
Crossman's results do very with talent, which confirms Marrone's comment about core players, but the scary thing is that - on average - Crossman's ST units average 22nd in the league. That's not a good record. And has been pointed out, his trend is that he seems to make teams worse over time rather than better.
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This!
I've been advocating for years to build a better O line. While I'm no football expert by any means, I usually go by what I see in terms of the entire unit, as I'm far to lazy to evaluate each player individually, unless they are particularly good or bad.
I agree. I don't see enough holes for the backs to run through. Nor do I see enough push in short yardage situation. In short yardage, we're actually getting pushed back more often than not.
Pass protection could be better too. Clearly guys like Brady and Brees simply have more talent than many of their peers. But there's a strong correlation between pass protection and passing productivity. QBs with clean pockets usually do well. EJ, CJ and Fredex would all benefit from a better O Line.
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I don't want to defend Crossman - who should be fired I think - but how much of the blame belongs to Marrone?
I've heard that the reason the results a guy like Bobby April gets varies from team to team is because of these two variables: (1) ST talent and, (2) head coach philosophy. Different head coaches have different attitudes toward special teams. Some devote far more practice time to ST. Marv Levy gave it more attention that most head coaches, for example. Maybe Marrone doesn't want to take time away from the offense or defense. Maybe he's retaining Crossman because he knows he's partly to blame.
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Hackett is a young rookie OC with limited NFL experience. I agree he did a good job with the backup QBs and didn't have the best tools to work with. I'm concerned, though, how poorly he used CJ. CJ's yards per carry went way down under Hackett.
Another concern is that Marrone used to be a NFL OC. You might think he'd do a better job of mentoring Hackett.
Finally, I'm a little bugged by the uptempo offense. Our defense gave up a fair number of yards because they were on the field all the time. We were 7th in most plays faced. An uptempo offense works best when you have an offense that can consistently earn first downs. We didn't have that. Our offense had fewer yards per play than 28 other teams.
I think the jury's still out on Hackett but there are some vaild reasons to worry.
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Coaches don't tackle. Players do.
It's the coach's job to bring out the best in his players. Crossman doesn't do that. McKelvin, for example, averaged 18.7 yard per PR in 2012. He averaged a paltry 5.6 under Crossman. Bobby April knew how to get the best out of his players and our STs were ranked consistently in the top 5 under his leadership. Football Outsiders has us ranked 30th under Crossman.
Crossman's resume doesn't unambiguously scream winner. Yes, back in 2008, his talented Panther squad led the NFL in ST. But with the Lions, he once gave up 4 ST TDs in two games - first team since at least 1940 to give up a kickoff and punt return for touchdowns in two consecutive weeks. Lions fans wanted him out last year as much as Bills fans want him out this year.
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Hire Norv as a QB coach, pay him more than most QB coaches, and then have him mentor not only our young QBs but our young OC too.
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Here's some tips:
1) Be extreme as possible…I can't overstate this
2) Claim you know when players will not succeed (which is almost always)
3) Want to get rid of EJ, CJ, SJ, Marrone, Hackett, Whaley, Brandon, insert any player here...
4) Get "peter panned" at least once
5) Choose up sides in the Flutie/Johnson debate
6) Have a plan for how to keep the Bills in Buffalo or be sure they will leave in 7 years
7) Drink often
I wish somebody gave me this sage advice when I joined the board. Great stuff.
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Cutler........yuck. Not a QB I want to build my team around. An average QB, who take too many sacks, turns the ball over too much and doesn't have great pocket presence. If I'm a Bears fan I'm not thrilled with this news. Cutler might get you to 10 wins if the chips fall right, but he's not a guy who can advance his team deep in the playoffs. Will never contend for championships.
Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Almost any NFL starter can contend for a championship if the team around him is strong enough. Otherwise, I agree. I wouldn't want to build a team around Cutler either. If he hasn't solved the flaws to his game by now, it's unlikely he ever will. We're still not sure what we have with EJ. Bear fans know what they've got and it's not great.
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Then hiding under the table when he is actually needed for anything.
In response to the OP's question,
-"Marrone announced that he fired wide receivers coach Ike Hilliard over a "difference in philosophy." He said he does not believe anyone else will be fired, even special teams coach Danny Crossman who had a rough year."-
-"The Bills finished second in the NFL with 144.2 yards per game, but their 4.2 average per carry was 14th. That was an indication that C.J. Spiller and Fred Jackson made some big plays, but there were also far too many plays that failed. Spiller had 30 runs that were held to zero or negative yardage, tied for sixth-most in the league."-
I saw the interview and didn't understand Marrone to be saying definitively that Crossman wouldn't be fired. But maybe it was my own hope shading my interpretation of his comments. I don't get the thing about the lack of core ST players. McKelvin is a core player. His PR average was awesome in 2011 and 2012. It sucked last year under Crossman. The core ST player is fine. The ST coach is the problem.
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It seems Marrone is blaming the poor performance of the WRs on Ike while blaming the poor performance of the Special Teams on the players.
It seems to me Marrone watched enough game video, not to mention live action, to know which coaches need replacing. And I'd be surprised if the players expressed a lot of faith in Crossman. It's disappointing to me that Crossman still has a job. The ST players deserve better leadership. We fans deserve a better product on the field.
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Ike Hilliard was fired on Black Monday. At the time, Marrone said, “The evaluation starts with me. We’ve already made one change. Ike Hilliard is no longer with us." He seemed to be hinting that more changes would follow. But so far, nothing.
So what do you guys think? Will Marrone make any more changes to his staff? Will he hire a dedicated QB coach? Will he release his buddy, Danny Crossman? Will any other coaches be replaced?
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Good to see Kiko is leading in the unofficial PFT DROY voting, garnering 36% of the vote to Richardson's 24% (at the time of this writing).
Honey Badger has 8%.
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prediction....yes prediction....
PAIN
That's kind of like saying the sun will rise tomorrow... just because it always has.
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How about some blame for the players getting faked out of their jocks by a guy running in slow motion?
How about guys not staying in their lanes? It looked like a bunch of kids running randomly down the field. There was no apparent organization. No plan. No scheme.
McKelvin averaged 19.5 yds per PR in 2011, 18.7 in 2012 and 5.6 in 2013!
The special teams have underperformed all year. Which is not surprising because Crossman doesn't have a good resume. I can see no reason to keep the guy.
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You're forgetting about his tenure as GM. It's not as if Brandon just started on the job a year or two ago, he's been here a while now.
The GM experiment clearly didn't work. But I'm not really sure who was calling the football shots back then. I don't think it was him. His job was to "whip up kool-aid" and sell it - i.e. sell tickets. His job is bigger now but still on the business side of things. He's not a personnel guy, not a coach.
BREAKING: Vikings to Hire George Edwards as DC
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
If you're a HC with a DC background, you might not want an tenured DC with an established philosophy running your defense. You might want someone younger/less established who you can teach your philosophy to.