garbag3man
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Posts posted by garbag3man
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In hindsight would it have been wiser to trade down and select either Derek Carr or Terry Bridgewater?
I also consider Watkins an elite talent. But without the qb position solidified his talents are gong to be underutilized. The Raiders selected Carr two years ago and then selected Cooper this year. They appear to have gotten the drafting sequence for positions right.
I know that there are a lot of armchair talent scouts here, and even myself (a strong supporter of EJ) can safely say that he is done here. HOWEVER, that is exactly what we had done. We drafted a QB (who got injured in his first year, and was still a question mark after only 12 games in his first season), and then drafted a super star WR. Carr had a 76.1 QB rating last year, not exactly a superstar (I know he showed flashes), and I don't want this to be a conversation about EJ.
My only point is that we in fact did draft a QB, and then a super star WR in the next year. The QB didn't pan out, but it was what we did.
The bi-polar impatience that this fan base & team has (while understandable) is what ruins young players, and makes it hard to lure a good coach here. We are already calling for our 1st year HC's head, because we are 1 game below .500 (with a favorable schedule the rest of the way) with EVERY player we have having been hurt. We insist that we draft a new QB in the first round every year, despite the fact that the NFL game takes time to learn and get comfortable with.
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Guys...Josh Johnson hasn't even completed a pass for us this year. Worst player on the team!!!
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EJ is not an NFL caliber, starting QB. People just forget how absurdly below average he was. He could not hit a guy, in stride over the middle of the field beyond 10 yards. Is it possible he could improve this offseason? sure. but as of today he is not the best option to beating the Green Bay Packers. I can't believe how many people are clamoring to see him play. EJ could throw 57 times each week and still not get a 300 yard game. As mediocre as Orton is, at least he can make some decent throws. He's not the answer either though.
He can't make this throw?
Or are we saying he can't make this throw?
Or maybe he can't make this throw?
http://www.buffalobills.com/video/videos/Week_2_Miami_Dolphins_vs_Buffalo_Bills_highlights/21ff68b4-6df8-4209-bb21-b19aabcee183 (33 seconds in).
There are real things to complain about with his play, but let's not pretend the guy can't make NFL throws. It's just silly.
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Did I miss something? Improving at what? Holding a clipboard? What have you seen that would lead you to believe that EJ has improved as a quarterback?Lots of people saw it.
He is saying that RT is improving in Miami after his staff stuck with him.
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Marrone deserves to stay. He has us in a better position than we have been in a long time.
Also, let us not forget that Jim Kelly is involved in this organization, and a guy like JH who is a massive a**hole, and has a bad history with JK might not be the best guy with this organization.
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Found this on youtube the other day
Orton is not a instinctual runner and he doesn't want to run ala Brady or Manning but he can slide in the pocket and move around but you have to think hes really just finding out who he can trust on that line .
Judging by the way he looks, that may have been 2-300 bottles of jack ago...
That being said, if our protection is as bad as it is, maybe moving the pocket would be a smart thing for Hackett to try. Let KO show off the rockets he has attached to those legs!!
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Alphadawg is right. Too many fans want this to be EJ vs Orton. I like EJ Manuel, but I said on here straight away after the Houston game "that is the kind of performance that gets you benched." They made the change, it was hard to disagree with it at the time to my mind but some did and they are entitled to their opinion.
But this isn't about EJ now. They are not going back to him this season unless there is an injury. That means the question that Alphadawg is posing is the correct one - is Orton's play and the all round performance of the offense at the moment good enough to get us to the play-offs? My take is that if our D keeps enough people to 20 points or fewer it will be. If this offense needs to score north of 25 points to win I don't see it happening.
I don't think that the current production from the offense is enough to get the Bills to the playoffs. I don't think that is on Orton -- I think he has played well enough, he simply needs more protection. He doesn't have the best pocket awareness, and if we can't stop Dixon from getting trucked/whiffing on big blocks, those mistakes are going to hurt us. We need to keep him clean and standing for us to have a chance to make a run against the stream of mediocre teams that we play over the next month+
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I will add, if we are going to talk about a ball that I don't think I have seen EJ throw, it's the pass to Chandler that he dropped. That was an OUTSTANDING throw from KO.
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Every game takes on its own identity......we are winning games because of our defense.....our offense is squirming along because our OL play is absolutely horrible
The one thing that I DO KNOW is that EJ Manuel does not make that throw to Watkins.....for that matter dont you remember how bad our red zone offense was with EJ Manuel overall? Dismal
Meanwhile....Orton just seems to have the clutch factor in the end zone......he is willing to make the throw
By the way none of this means I have given up on EJ Manuel the player.......I just think he is exactly where he needs to be right now....holding the clipboard behind a veteran QB.
I 100% agree with the overall point you were making. However, I am not going to speculate on whether Manuel throws that pass to Watkins. He has thrown a number of good passes over his career, and I think if we go back to the CAR game last year, we would all be singing his praise about the passes that he threw down the stretch to lead them on that drive.
I think Orton is the right QB right now, but I have a hard time seeing people say things like "Our red zone offense was dismal with EJ at the helm."
Of course EJ had a bunch to do with that.
We also all know that with KO at QB, we have dialed up passes on 55% (11/20) of our red zone opportunities, and with Manuel, that number was 38% (16/42).
Some of that may have to do with confidence that the staff has in EJ, I will concede that, but let's not act like this is happening in a vacuum.
--Also, let's keep in mind that EJ threw for four TD and rushed for another in Red Zone opportunities this season.
Just imagine E.J. under center for that last drive.
Yeah, I can't either.......
I call it 'being a coward', but point taken.
I can, I saw it happen last year, at home against CAR, also saw it happen in TOR vs ATL last year, but for two TERRIBLE fumbles. AGAIN, I agree with you that KO is the right QB for this team right now, but can we PLEASE stop pretending like EJ hasn't done these things before? Because he has.
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Count me among those that hope that this means we can get a sweetheart deal on CJ and see him back here next season (and used the proper way).
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I still think EJ has what it takes to be an NFL QB, and a good one for the Bills.
I also think that KO gives us the best chance to win this year, as he has more experience playing behind absolutely HORRID OL play. I said a few years ago, that Matt Ryan and Joe Flacco were the worst things to happen to rookie QB's in a long time, and I am pretty sure that it is a big part of why we expect EJ to be a stud QB in what is still 13 starts in the NFL.
I don't think that young QBs should be asked to throw as much as EJ has, especially considering the stable of RBs that we have. Everyone needs to stop pushing their agenda on this, because it leads to some silly things being said.
All we hear on this board is about how many more "downfield" throws that we have seen in the last 3 weeks, which is just silly. EJ threw 68% of his passes 10 yards or fewer. KO has thrown 65% of his passes < 10 yards. WOW, big difference there.
KO has had a healthy Sammy Watkins, and he is throwing for more yards because he's being asked to throw the ball 40+ times a game. That may be because the OC trusts him with the offense more, but I don't put any stock into things that Nate Hackett thinks at this point.
tl;dr: let's all take a step back, and stop just spouting things off. We're all Bills fans, and this is most likely the best thing for the team this season, and for any chance at salvaging EJ's career with the BIlls (as much as some fans don't ever want to see that happen).
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Have you watched the last two games? If you can't see that Orton is making throws that E.J. has not or never could make, then you were watching two different games than the ones I watched. Is he perfect? Absolutely not, but if you find that guy let me know, cuz I would like to watch him play too. Is he better than E.J. ? Absolutely 100% unequivocally yes. That we are even discussing this makes me wonder if Bills fans are even watching the games.
The majority of people here (in my opinion) don't think that KO is a more polished, more confident QB who is making better throws this season than EJ did in the HOU or SD games.
I think you make yourself sound silly, and your point is less valid, when you say things like "making throws that E.J. has not or never could make" because that is just wrong.
Did EJ have some bad games, and make some TERRIBLE decisions? Of course he did.
Does he need a LOT of work on his accuracy? Of course he does.
Has he shown that he can make most of the throws that you would want him to be able to make? Of course he has. For evidence, look at the bomb he threw to Watkins in the SD game. Or the fact that through 2 games this season, we were all talking about how he has made a big leap in throwing to a spot, instead of waiting until a WR was WIDE open.
You are correct, KO gives us the best chance to win now. I personally think that EJ has what it takes to be a solid QB, and sitting will be great for him. That being said, saying things like you did above, makes most rational people who have watched the games completely dismiss whatever point you are making.
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> EJ and KO are both .500 in the only stat that any fan on this board should actually care about.
I care about winning percentage when evaluating the team as a whole. But I wouldn't use it to evaluate individual players. If (for example) a LT hasn't allowed a sack or pressure all season, and is blowing defenders up in the run game, I don't need to know his team's winning percentage to know he's a good player. You could say the same thing about a player at any other position. That specifically includes quarterback.
> 2. EJ, through the first two weeks was completing 60-70% of his passes, and had a QB rating of about 95.
Both completion percentage and quarterback rating can be inflated by attempting a lot of short, high percentage passes. Given that Manuel almost never attempts passes more than 5 yards past the line of scrimmage, I think it's safe to say his quarterback rating overstates his play. This season, both his QBR and his air yards per attempt are among the weakest in the league. (31st best IIRC.)
> 3. In games that EJ throws fewer than 30 passes in his career, he is 5-1 with a 128.95 QBR
If the Bills don't ask Manuel to attempt a lot of passes, it generally means that the running game is successful and the defense is playing well. I'd expect the team to win a lot of games under those circumstances regardless of the quality of quarterback play.
As an aside, it's easy to confuse quarterback rating with QBR. Quarterback rating is an old way of measuring a quarterback's performance. Kelly Holcomb and John Elway had nearly identical quarterback ratings. There are better tools available for measuring a QB's performance. QBR is a relatively new stat; which measures a QB's performance on a scale of 0 - 100. Given that a QBR of 128.95 is impossible, I think you meant to write that Manuel had a quarterback rating of 128.95 in the games you mentioned.
QBR actually still stands for QuarterBack Rating
Total QBR is the ESPN stat they made up to make Tebow look like a better QB. Different stat, abbreviated "TQBR"
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Ej can still learn a lot from watching. Orton doesn't need to hold EJ's hand, just show him how a professional commands the huddle, leads the team, practices....yada yada yada...
Not to mention, seeing this all from a guy who has been benched a number of times has to be a comfort to a guy who needed a bit of a confidence boost at some point.
No one here questions that EJ needs to work on a number of things, and that he is a highly unfinished project. That being said, a few important things to note:
1. EJ and KO are both .500 in the only stat that any fan on this board should actually care about.
2. EJ, through the first two weeks was completing 60-70% of his passes, and had a QB rating of about 95.
3. In games that EJ throws fewer than 30 passes in his career, he is 5-1 with a 128.95 QBR (and I think we all can agree that a young QB who is an unfinished project should only be throwing < 30 passes a game).
Like a lot of the people who are EJ supporters have said, this will most likely be good for him (a chance to get his head right, and watch the way that the team wanted him to do last year before Kolb got concussion number 1234123412534345 of his career). I personally think EJ has what it takes to be a VERY good QB in the NFL, and he needs to get out of his own way. But he also needs an OC that allows him to progress the way that young QB's should (Russell Wilson has only thrown 30+ 7 times in his first two seasons, and had some of his worst QBRs in those games)
NOTE: I am not saying that EJ is RW, just an interesting point in differing opinions on developing young QBs.
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lol. ok. that's right, EJ beat the world by himself. Him and his 19.8 QBR, barely breaking 200yds passing per game.
I don't think he is saying that EJ won those two games singlehandedly. I think his point is that if you read this board, and their "critiques" of EJ Manuel -- It is a wonder the guy is able to dress himself without falling over. Apparently people on this board choose not to see the good passes that he throws (just like many of the people who wan't EJ in there choose to ignore the good throws that KO makes).
I said above, I think this decision was the correct one for all people involved (as long as we keep winning/staying in the hunt). That being said, in the only stat category that matters, EJ and KO are tied .500.
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Every Qb wins some games and loses some games sometimes i swear you guys are looking for a unicorn to play QB
Fitzpatrick is about as much like Orton as Orton is like Tom Brady
Of course every QB wins some and loses some (even EJ right?). That being said, the problem that I had with Orton Sunday (and in the Detroit game) was how long he stared his receiver down in both of the picks. Didn't look away, didn't notice that the DB was breaking on the pass before he even started to throw it, just looked him in the eyes, and threw it.
I like Orton, I think he's got a good arm, and I like his mentality. I don't like his complete lack of pocket awareness, and I don't really love how he locks onto receivers sometimes. That's all. I'm not looking for Peyton Manning out of the guy (nor was I looking for that out of EJ).
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From what I have seen throughout his career, Kyle Orton is Ryan Fitzpatrick. The guy has a strong mentality, he's ready to throw the ball 40 times a game, and he has a pretty good arm. He is going to make 2-3 terrible decisions that are going to lose games/keep games closer than they should be.
That being said, and as an EJ fan, I think that starting KO for a while is just what the doctor ordered for the team for the rest of the season, and for EJ as well. Whatever happened, we all saw that EJ regressed in the SD & HOU games. I don't think he should have been throwing 30+ passes, and I think we should have been moving the pocket more, but he regressed. I think that this is an opportunity for him to be able to sit back and watch a QB who just goes out there and plays, and really grow from this.
KO isn't the answer at QB for this team long term, he is a caretaker. He is a guy we can put in there, and possibly win some games, and I think in the meantime, EJ will be growing into a QB who can start in this league for quite a few years going forward.
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There havent been a "rash of arrests lately". People are just noticing them right now.
In fact, "a rash of" means a large number of. I would say that the number of DV arrests of players in the NFL is in fact "a rash of."
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And you are the exact problem. People admittedly making assumption that they have no idea about. I'll do it for you. A report by the US Department of Justice stated that 1.3% of women experienced domestic violence in the general public for a one year time period. On average, of these 1.3% of women, they each encounter 6.9 assaults per year. https://www.ncjrs.go.../nij/183781.txt
In the NFL, the 5 players in the last year that have been associated with domestic violence (one including a child only) account for only 0.25% of the players and there certainly are no reports of up to 6.9 assaults by any of them.
Now, obviously not every incident is reported and anyone who is good with statistics and logic can point some holes in the comparisons I just made, but a reasonable conclusion from these is that it occurs 5 times less often in the NFL than it does in the general public.
Apparently, no one cares about women and children in the general public though, only the ones that are beat up by famous people. And there is where my problem with the media lies.
I agree with your point that the media are not covering this issue as a whole, however we are talking about the NFL, and if there is an increase in violence. It doesn't make sense for the ESPN to cover Steve who lives in Rochester beating his wife. It does however make sense for them to cover the rash of arrests recently, and if they can use that coverage to effect change, I don't really have a problem with it. That doesn't mean that don't wish that it was covered more in the normal media.
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Same here Buftex. I could not disagree more either, e.g. your inference that if someone doesn't proclaim their innocence, one would assume they are guilty? just a plain asinine argument. But I didn't rip on you. Whatever.
I don't care what Bob Costas thinks about gun control either because I'm pretty sure if I met the guy I wouldn't agree with him about much of anything. The media grabs onto something they think they can utilize to affect social change and they will not let it go.
The issue here is this **** isn't even real news. ISIS, West Bank, Crimea, Afghanistan. And we're listening to talking heads with room temperature IQs talk 24-7 about football violence. get a real problem.
my issue isn't specifically what happened to any one player it is the endemic use of media power try to manipulate what happens to people and force us to agree with them on certain issues.
This is an absolutely silly thing to say. OF COURSE THIS IS NEWS. The conversation is about the SEVERE lack of respect that is shown towards women in this society. If poor, poor, multi-millionaire psychopaths (who I agree are a very small percentage of the league as a whole) are villified in the media, and it leads to even a modicum of change in the way that our society treats/views women...who cares. This is definitely news. The only difference about this conversation is that the sports media are driving this conversation, because that is the medium in which it happened.
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Top 10 QB's for 2014 season only.
#1- P. Manning
#2- A. Rodgers
#3- D. Brees
#4- P. Rivers
#5- T. Brady
#6- A. Luck
#7- R. Wilson
#8- J. Cutler
#9- C. Newton
#10- M. Stafford
Above, you said that QBR is a good stat to use for who the top 10 QB's are. Are you saying those are who you think will be top 10 by the end of the year?
I ask, because a cursory glance at the statistics has EJ at #13, and Brees, Stafford, Brady, & Luck (yet to play week 2) all behind EJ, and considerably out of the aforementioned Top 10.
-Not saying that EJ is better than those guys, just looking for clarity.
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Didn't read page 2, so not sure if this has been covered, but the woman in the pictures is NOT the woman who is filing the compliant...
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At some point people have to realize that this kid lost to every good football team he has played this year (with the exception of maybe Duke). He's like college Matt Flynn, the guy has more hype surrounding him from one game 15 months ago.
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DYlan, DYlan, DYlan, DYlan, & DYlan.
Because he spits hot fire!
Sammy Watkins...
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
As a fan, I am just as impatient. But I also know that rash decisions, impatient decisions, are ALWAYS bad decisions. We have a new owner, he has been here for 1yr, and is investing in this team. Despite disappointment, and frustration, patience is still necessary, or we will continue making stupid decisions.