birdog1960
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Posts posted by birdog1960
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How about the simple fact that Ralph did not believe that teams should move out of their area?
Well, that was promised to congress at the time of the merger by the NFL so I concede that is a plausible explanation. If that's it then I applaud him for keeping his word when others did not.
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One more time. There are NO Buffalo Bills without Ralph Wilson. There is no team here in 1960. There is no team when there were numerous profitable offerings throughout his 50 years to leave this dying city. There are no Super Bowl appearances. There is no stadium in Orchard Park. This is "Its a Wonderful Life" in all it dying city mode. It is unbelievable that he stayed. The only people who should really be upset is his family. He has cost them hundreds of millions of dollars by not moving to LA or Houston when he had the chance and the league would have let him.
So, all you whiners, sobbers and complainers about Ralph, if you have ever enjoyed a wonderful fall afternoon in Orchard Park or on Dodge and Jefferson, it is because of him. Almost all others would have taken the money and run like the Buffalo Braves. Look at the stats about Buffalo. Why in the world did he stay? Count your lucky stars.
So Ralph didn't move or sell because he loves Buffalo and its people so much? There could be multiple other reasons, including deals none of us know about that would explain his staying. But, you choose to believe (based on his strong philanthropic history and generous demeanor, I suppose) that the most flattering explanation to Ralph is correct. Does it seem in character for him to give up hundreds of millions of dollars out of the goodness of his heart? What is this estimate based on? Finally, to paraphrase your last paragraph ..."a crappy city deserves a crappy team so be happy with that crappy team". I just don't accept any of the premises or the conclusion in that statement.
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everyone has the right to their opinion, but some of your proported "facts" are off or misleading, thus stunting the thrust of your point.
Butler, who was "fired" in December 2000, was fired because he refused to commit to a new contract and it was widely rumored that he was going to jump ship and go to San Diego anyway. Mr. Wilson wanted to re-sign Butler, but Butler refused to negotiate.
"The ONLY justification for his HOF induction ..." i think not.
you overlook numerous contributions, from his role in helping negotiate the framework of what proved to be the eventual AFL-NFL merger, and how it included the very important revenue-sharing clause. it was at Mr. Wilson's urging that the AFL negotiated a TV contract that allowed each team a $900,000 cut that caught the NFL off guard, and made the AFL a league to be reckoned with, thus forcing the merger.
Mr. Wilson's role on numerous influential committees helped form the game that is being played today and also averted a major labor dispute in 1977, that could have set the league back by decades.
i think you discount the role Mr. Wilson had in preserving the Bills, never mind establishing the team in Buffalo in the first place, a city that might not have had AFL or NFL for that matter without Ralph.
and do you discount him too for turning down several offers to relocate the team, including one by Tex Schram, who offered to come up to Buffalo and help pack?
i don't recall Polian bringing the Colts a Super Bowl in 1992.
it's easy to play the pessimistic role and find fault. heck, we in the media get accused of that all the time. but what's your point and to what end are you trying to get to, especially when cherry-picking negative and sometimes erroneous "facts" to support your case and dismissing the positives.
oh, and to your point in questioning ... "where is Indy & SanDiego?"
check a map, the first is in Indiana, where they have a big car race on Memorial Day weekend, and the other's in southern California, just north of the Mexican border and where they have famous zoo.
jw
The players and coaches on the 68 Jets and the 69 Chiefs had nothing to do with the merger, right? It was all Ralph's doings.
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I just can't feel bad for the Titans fans. I was at the "miracle in music city" game, and while the titans fans were very hospitable (and some there were actual original Oilers fans) the memory makes sympathy impossible. I think that one play, more than makes up for all the AFL wins over them. Plus, Nashville is a great city (if the bills are decent at all this year, consider going to the Titans game-check out the honky tonk country music bars the night before the game).Excellent post, and hard to argue any of those points.
However, here are the fans of NFL teams that wish they could replace their history with the exact history of ours in Buffalo you listed above:
1) The Detroit Lions under the Ford family.
2) The New Orleans Saints under whoever and then that screwball car dealer that used to dance around with that stupid hat after the Saints won a few games years ago - Bentson I think? After over 40 years, still 0-0 in SB's.
3) Despite their amazing run in last years' playoffs, Bidwell's Cardinal fans would absolutely have loved to trade their history with ours over the last 50 years, both the fans in St. Louis and Arizona.
4) The Cleveland Browns from 1965 on, under scum bag Modell and then the Lerner family.
5) The Tenessee Titans fans, since they have only been to one SB and lost it, and of course their Houston fans before them, under Bud Adams who regularly lost to our Bills in the playoffs.
6) Possibly the Chargers fans??...They have had their share of lousy losing seasons over their long history, and also have never won a SB either, with a 0-1 record. (Playing in 4 straight is still better then playing and losing just one, right?)
So although the Bills overall history is in the bottom third of NFL teams, we can always point to other fans in the NFL that have had it worse then us over 40 to 50 years.
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Agreed. To my recolection the NFL needed all 8 teams and if it werent for the Bills, and Ralph fronting Al Davis $400K that would have broken the deal. Im too young to know this. But thought I read that once. Someone please school me.
He was protecting his investment. We all try to do that. It was a good bet and paid off handsomely but it's hardly heroic. Many of the guys in the HOF qualify as heros but Ralph...not so much. BTW jahbonas, love the "riding secretariat to second "metaphor but I think it's misapplied here. Levy was a great coach.
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Ralph Wilson IS the Buffalo Bills. If you hate him that much, I suggest you find another team to root for.
Would love to... unfortunately (actually, fortunately in the bigger picture) I had many of the same kinds of experiences with my dad and Buffalo and Bills games that Tim Russert described in "Big Russ and Me" and I hope those memories never leave my consciousness. That's how I can loathe Ralph Wilson and still love the Bills. I suspect many others on this board maintain their loyalty for similar reasons. But many of us won't be sorry when a new owner finally takes over. So, I'll ignore your suggestion.
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RW is only in the HOF because he was one of the original owners and had kept the team in Buffalo, not because of winning or how he runs the franchise.
As a fan, do you feel those are legitimate criteria for induction? Do you think future visitors to the HOF, 20 years from now will huddle before his bust and gush over his importance to the game.
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As I wade through the flotsam and jetsam of another flood of mediocrity by the Bills, I feel compelled to (again) remind everyone of Ralph Wilson's track record as Bills owner:
In 49 seasons, the Bills have had only 17 winning seasons. That roughly means that out of every three seasons, we have a winning record in only one.
The Bills all-time winning percentage is a paltry .475. Only 8 of the 32 teams in the NFL have a lower winning percentage.
Only four coaches in Bills history have been able to post a winning percentage during their tenure here, Lou Saban, Chuck Knox, Marv Levy, and Wade Phillips. Those four coaches have accounted for 16 of our 17 winning seasons. Aside from those four, Mike Mularkey is the only other Bills coach with a winning season. Marv retired. The others were fired.
Our greatest coach, Lou Saban, died never having been recognized/rewarded by Ralph Wilson for our two AFL Championships.
The player that many longtime Bills fans consider the greatest Bill ever, Cookie Gilchrist, has never been recognized/rewarded by Ralph Wilson for his great contributions to the team's early success (the two championships).
Our greatest general manager, Bill Polian, was fired by Ralph.
Our second greatest general manager, John Butler, was fired by Ralph.
Ralph Wilson is in the Hall of Fame for his contributions towards founding and building the AFL and his role in the merger, etc.
But as the owner of the Bills, he's done a horrible job. Yes, he's kept the team here but the end result of that is that we, the greatest football fans in the world, continue to endure season after season of Ralph Wilson's clueless bumbling.
Well said. would only add that I believe ralph has done a cost benefit analysis on attempting to produce a team competitive enough to have a run at a championship and decided long ago that the costs are too high. Unfortunately, the equation still hasn't shifted in our favor as he approaches his inevitable demise.
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Remember back when you were a kid and your mother would say "if you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"
So it's time to point out Jauron's positive traits. This way we can bash him all we want but still be able to say we also notice his positives
I'll begin....Dick Jauron has never kidnapped an 11 year old girl and held her captive for 18 years
With that out of the way...Jauron has no business being an NFL head coach
Dick jauron never quoted machievelli (but neither did Marv Levy and they both went to Ivy League schools).
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Seriously, there is a BIGGER story going on here. And it involves Ralph Wilson as owner. I am convinced that the team the way it is, coaching included, is exactly all that Ralph Wilson is willing to pay for.
It will never get better with Ralph Wilson as owner.
Don't blame Juron.
Anybody want to speculate on what makes Ralph tick. If you were over 90, wouldn't you be desperate for immediate success in your lifetime project? The only conclusion I can draw is that winning football games isn't his measure of success. Guess it isn't for the HOF either.
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The D&C is the only paper there that calls it like it is. The Bills are a bottom 15 team. Lets just face it. Until Ralph is gone, and fresh new ownership pumps cash in and also moves the franchise to where top notch coachs, GMs and players want to be, they will continue to be a bottom 15 team. Just be happy there is still a team there. The area is no longer top notch NFL material. Ralph is just running it to be cash positive and he is doing a great job of that. the team stinks, but a great great team is not Ralph's goal. If it happens he is more happy, but filling the stands and collection as much TV money as he can is all he can do.
Agreed. There seems to be an unwillingness to accept any criticism of the Bills by some on this site. Kill the messenger. Yes, Bills fans are in a weak position to enact change but that doesn't mean they should just shut up and take it. Rochester D and C in a better position than most and are doing their job. Positive results from this are open to question but blithely accepting failure doesn't work either.
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Just remember Marv was a sub .500 lifetime coach with only one winning season until the Bills started their run in 1988 (40-55 over 4 full seasons and 2 partials).
"was" being the operative word. Some might contend that his success was despite Ralph.
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I'm with you Big Cat. I'm not suggesting that this is a matter of just replacing the coach but he is what he is - he's a lifetime sub .500 football coach. In football it always 100% of the time comes down to the HC. Just ask the Cowboys.
More importantly, Ralph is a lifetime sub .500 owner.
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Thank You finally some one who realizes that the preseason is just set up to evaluate, jell, and build stamina. Its more about getting used to a game situation than it is winning. Apparently for those of you on this board its about whining. So will you all shut up until about week 7.
GO BILLS!
Current betting odds to win superbowl 35 to 40:1. Between 7-9th worst in league depending on site. I've made this bet with payoff enough to go to Superbowl (if a miracle happened) last 2 years at 100:1 or greater. Wouldn't take these odds though. Would you? Do you discount the preseason that much?
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Logically, it makes no sense to invest emotionally or financially in this organization. The one constant over 50 years of mostly unacceptable teams (.475 winning percentage, 9th worst among active NFL teams) is Ralph Wilson. Coaches, quarterbacks, GM's, and entire rosters change but Ralph remains and the product remains poor. Yet he gets into the HOF and garners our allegiance. Why , because he's fulfilled the American dream and gotten richer over those 50 years or because he's stuck tenuously by a city down on its luck? To me, those aren't good enough reasons but the psychopathology continues and I too will watch the early season, cheering for the Bill's jerseys and hoping for a miracle. Wish it wasn't so but it is.
It all starts at the top...
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I'll bet these posters are just overjoyed to get your little nod of approval! I'm terribly offended in not being mentioneed (oops, better catch that misspelled word or I'll be disciplined by the master). Pontification is just as offensive as vitriol to many of us. So if you don't like the vitriol, stop the holier than thou crap.
I'm certain that you know much more of the history and inside workings of the NFL than I but I'm even more certain that I know much more about my field of expertise than you. That doesn't mean that every conclusion I make in my field is better than the one you might draw in opposition from the same general evidence. The historical corrections you made to those disagreeing with you do not in any way change the conclusion that Ralph Wilson has been a subpar owner, is unlikely to improve. and is the legitimate target of fan vitriol.
Now, if you could please enlighten me, great one, regarding Ralph's motivation to keep the team in Buffalo all these years, I would greatly appreciate it. While many here would like him beatified for this (much less put in the HOF), I wonder if he is merely keeping his word by not moving the franchise. By all means, correct me if I'm wrong (and do it with vitriol if that pleases you) , but didn't the NFL pledge before congress at the time of the merger that franchises would stay put to avoid anti trust questions. If that's his reason for staying (i.e. keeping his word) then it's certainly honorable relative to some of his colleagues but hardly worthy of adulation.