zdro22 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 This is far too real, the pain of the fans years removed from the move is horrible to see. As frustrated as I have been this is needed to keep my anger in perspective. I love this team, and never want it to leave. Now I hope the get it turned around and back to the good old days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBlood Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Does the city of Baltimore not feel bad that they got a team back by taking it from another city....... putting that city through the heartache that they also had to go through? I know Cleveland got another team but its just not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Does the city of Baltimore not feel bad that they got a team back by taking it from another city....... putting that city through the heartache that they also had to go through? I know Cleveland got another team but its just not the same. having lived there (Baltimore), people were slow to warm to the Ravens. I think now they've pretty much turned the page on the Colts, but it a lonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnng time...even with the Ravens in town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdro22 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Does the city of Baltimore not feel bad that they got a team back by taking it from another city....... putting that city through the heartache that they also had to go through? I know Cleveland got another team but its just not the same. They brought it up, ravens fans said they had mixed emotions...that wasnt point of post. It was more to remind people that believe it or not, things can get worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthICE Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 This is far too real, the pain of the fans years removed from the move is horrible to see. As frustrated as I have been this is needed to keep my anger in perspective. I love this team, and never want it to leave. Now I hope the get it turned around and back to the good old days. And fans like you are why Ralph will NEVER field a winning team. He knows he has you guys no matter what so he will never pay to field a winner. And BTW the 'good old days' were in spite of wilson. ONLY because of Polian did the Bills have any success. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCal Aaron Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I'd be more than happy if the Bills moved, were subsequently replaced by a new organization with the same name, and won a SB shortly thereafter. A total colon cleanse of the offending front office, retention of the approximately 15 years of palatable history out of 50, and new duds that replace the current base atrocities. Win - win - win. Think Ozzy is available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdro22 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 And fans like you are why Ralph will NEVER field a winning team. He knows he has you guys no matter what so he will never pay to field a winner. And BTW the 'good old days' were in spite of wilson. ONLY because of Polian did the Bills have any success. Dude relax, im one of the most angry and bitter fans on this board. I have a hard time finding one single positive thing to say about this franchise. I unlike most canceled my seats when they hired Dick. I hate everything about what this team currently is about. That being said, i still cringe at the thought of them leaving, and seeing what these people went through, i hope no one in this city has to experience that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Bob Irsay wanted to get the hell out of Baltimore for years...I think he wanted to trade franchises with Rams' owner Rosenbloom at some point in the late 70s or early 80s... eventually Irsay did what he could to force a move...the Colts went to hell and attendance lagged... in Orchard Park the former has certainly happened...the latter hasn't...yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Does the city of Baltimore not feel bad that they got a team back by taking it from another city....... putting that city through the heartache that they also had to go through? I know Cleveland got another team but its just not the same. Most had mixed feelings. Also, Taglibue could have stopped this from happening by simply putting a team in Baltimore over Jacksonville. If I recall correctly, when asked why he the NFL didn't put a team in either Baltimore or St. Louis he said something along the lines of "the NFL is moving to new markets, we are never returning to those former cities." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Bob Irsay wanted to get the hell out of Baltimore for years...I think he wanted to trade franchises with Rams' owner Rosenbloom at some point in the late 70s or early 80s... eventually Irsay did what he could to force a move...the Colts went to hell and attendance lagged... in Orchard Park the former has certainly happened...the latter hasn't...yet. I thought that's how he got the franchise in the first place. Didn't he trade FOR the Colts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zdro22 Posted October 14, 2009 Author Share Posted October 14, 2009 Most had mixed feelings. Also, Taglibue could have stopped this from happening by simply putting a team in Baltimore over Jacksonville. If I recall correctly, when asked why he the NFL didn't put a team in either Baltimore or St. Louis he said something along the lines of "the NFL is moving to new markets, we are never returning to those former cities." Taglibue did come off like a dick in the documentary. I highly recommend the 30 for 30 show. Last week was a doc on the Gretzky trade, truly great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I thought that's how he got the franchise in the first place. Didn't he trade FOR the Colts. I guess that's what it says...it says Irsay briefly owned the Rams and then the Colts...so the trade was reverse of what I thought? Eventually Rosenbloom drowned at the hands of Georgia Frontiere and the rest is history. From WackyPedia In January 1984, an unsteady Robert Irsay appeared before the Baltimore media and exclaimed, "This is my Goddamn team!". He reiterated that, despite the problems, the rumors that he was moving the team were untrue.[2] However with negotiations over improvements to Memorial Stadium at an impasse, one of the chambers of the Maryland state legislature passed a law on March 27, 1984 allowing the city of Baltimore to seize the Baltimore Colts under eminent domain, which city and county officials had previously threatened to do. Irsay later claimed the city promised him a new football stadium, something they later denied, citing the team's poor attendance. The next day, Irsay, fearing a dawn raid on the team's Owings Mills headquarters, quickly accepted a deal offered by the city of Indianapolis, Indiana; Indianapolis Mayor William Hudnut then contacted his good friend, John B. Smith, at that time the CEO of the Mayflower Transit Company, and arranged for fifteen trucks to hurriedly pack the team's property and transport it to Indianapolis in the early hours of the morning of March 29. Thus, many Baltimore Colts fans were stunned to learn that they no longer had a football team. Robert Irsay was further excoriated by Colts fans, former players, and the Baltimore press. However, Irsay's attorney, Michael Chernoff, defended his client and what became colloquially known as "The Move." "They (the state legislature and the city of Baltimore) not only threw down the gauntlet, but they put a gun to his head and cocked it and asked, 'want to see if it's loaded?,'" Michael Chernoff, the team's general counsel, said after the move. "They forced him to make a decision that day." [3] An ecstatic crowd in Indianapolis greeted the arrival of their new NFL team, and the team received 143,000 season ticket requests in just two weeks. However, the Colts' first game in the RCA Dome, then called the HoosierDome, was a 21-14 loss to the New York Jets on September 2, 1984. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 This is far too real, the pain of the fans years removed from the move is horrible to see. As frustrated as I have been this is needed to keep my anger in perspective. I love this team, and never want it to leave. Now I hope the get it turned around and back to the good old days. I just watched the show and it was great. But a few thoughts come to mind and a few questions. After doing some fact checking, I think it's still unclear about what really happened. My facts come from a book written about the NFL by David Harris. I also have read a great deal about Robert Irsay in media reports going back to my college years to the present day. 1. Irsay paid about double the going rate for an NFL team. He bought the team from Carroll Rosenbloom while Rosenbloom got the Rams in a swap. I guess he paid about 25 million for the team which was about double at the time. Rosenbloom wanted out of Baltimore after failing to get a new stadium. Plus the press was hounding him. 2. Irsay, who was a drunk and considered a boob by other NFL owners, then put in motion moving the team after he too tired and failed to get a new stadium with the city of Baltimore. 3. Irsay was shopping his team to Jacksonville, Phoenix and Indy and I believe New York was also mentioned. I think he said he would never move his team to New York (he didn't like the city). 4. Irsay moved to team to Indy the day after Maryland passed a law saying the city of Baltimore could seize the team under eminent domain. 5. Irsay's lawyer said the city "put a gun to his head" about why the Colts took less money in Indy. Irsay said the domed stadium played a role. The move was a panic move. That's why the moving vans were called and it was done in an abrupt fashion. My conclusion is Irsay made a bad deal when he bought the team and he tired to fix it and he didn't know how to. He sold his heating and air conditioning business and sunk all his money into buying the Colts. He was in over his head. He didn't know how to deal with the media and politicians and when those people threatened him he moved. He wasn't going to lose 25 million because of a bunch of politicians. He got off on the wrong foot with the media in Baltimore with his penny pinching ways and they "beat him up" as he said in the ESPN show. There's no doubt that Robert Irsay was a jerk. He did make threats. He said that if Baltimore didn't build a new stadium he was going to move and that came before the eminent domain thing. Howard Cosell hated him and let him have it for shopping the team in such a public way. But I think he had to protect his money and I don't really blame him for doing so. If someone would have set down with Irsay (NFL people) and asked how can we help, the situation might have been avoided. Saying all of that, I think the biggest mistake was not giving the uniform back to Baltimore. I think that's why it took Peyton Manning before the city of Indy really embraced that team. I read somewhere, Irsay's son said he would sell the uniform for 25 million. I think that's why the NFL kept the Browns in Cleveland. Moving the Browns uniform to Baltimore would have sucked. Another issue I have with this issue is why Art Modell was always broke. He said he had to move the team to Baltimore and become the Ravens because he was broke. He did it to protect the money for his family, yet he said he had to sell the Ravens because he was broke. What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Baltimore media didn't report much on Modell's somewhat shaky ownership of the Ravens. It was glossed over...he wanted to move the team out of Cleveland cause he couldn't secure a stadium for years...the Indians got one and the Cavs had a somewhat newer facility as well. It wasn't long into the Ravens' existence that Modell was looking to sell or looking for a minority owner to eventually take the whole team. You think about it, there are some dumbassssssses that own NFL teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RLflutie7 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 Baltimore media didn't report much on Modell's somewhat shaky ownership of the Ravens. It was glossed over...he wanted to move the team out of Cleveland cause he couldn't secure a stadium for years...the Indians got one and the Cavs had a somewhat newer facility as well. It wasn't long into the Ravens' existence that Modell was looking to sell or looking for a minority owner to eventually take the whole team. You think about it, there are some dumbassssssses that own NFL teams. That's what I don't get. Did he have a gambling problem or what? The deal in Baltimore was going to solve all the financial problems, but it didn't. I'm glad he's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l< j Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 That's what I don't get. Did he have a gambling problem or what? The deal in Baltimore was going to solve all the financial problems, but it didn't. I'm glad he's gone. To this outsider, the NFL is set up as a pretty easy gig for owners: Yeah, they need to work like hell or be lucky or whatever to be able to afford a franchise, but once they buy in they are gold. (Assuming TV revenues continue to outpace every other sector of the economy, which is very much in question.) Art Modell was a profoundly bad businessman, having failed in 2 markets. kj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalkie Gerzowski Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 That's what I don't get. Did he have a gambling problem or what? The deal in Baltimore was going to solve all the financial problems, but it didn't. I'm glad he's gone. The Baltimore tv stations were hush-hush about anything with Modell...he was on tv very infrequently... they used to show his fat head and his high maintenance wife on tv a lot when he owned the Browns. You look at some of these NFL owners and you just shake your head. They seem to get ahead through various means...Wilson getting inheritance from daddy...Al Davis by being a career chisler... Modell, I think he actually earned his money in his younger days in Manhattan...television or something, I don't know the specifics... Irsay, how did he make his money? Never saw such a dingy looking drunk run an NFL team, outside of him that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thoner7 Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 On a side note, Miami adds another celeb owner in....Ferrgie? What gives? I thought there was a rule agaisnt public ownership? How many owners is a team allowed to have? I believe there are roughly 55,000 season ticket holders. Well, a 900 million dollar team divided by 55,000 season ticket holders is about $16,400. Lets pony up Bills fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheRocks Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 I caught this program on the replay on ESPN 2 - WOW! ....really great progam! I didn't expect anything less from Barry Levinson - the man that brougt us "Homicide Life on the Street". The next episode is on "Who killed the USFL". Full Schedule Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endzone Animal Posted October 14, 2009 Share Posted October 14, 2009 My favorite relocation stories are the ones about the St. Louis and Houston fans who essentially kicked their loser, lowlife owners right out of town. It inspires me. Better to have no NFL team at all than to have a terrible product owned by a scumbag who doesn't respect or deserve the fans they expect to pony up for whatever garbage they tell them to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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