Joey Balls Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Um ... the last time the Bills played in Cleveland was 11 years ago, and it was an early season Monday night game with good weather. The Browns were coming off a playoff season, and the Bills were still in their glory years. Prior to that, if your math is correct, you must have witnessed that scintillating 42-0 rout against a 3-13 Browns team in 1990 (presumably most of the Browns' fans had left the stadium by the end of the third quarter), and the playoff game in 1989. Neither the Monday night game nor the playoff game were typical. Moreover, the Browns have been for many years tied with Arizona as the worst team in the league, and have actually fielded more boring teams than the Cardinals. So I can't say I look forward to watching the Bills stop the indomitable Charlie Frye or whatever lackluster successor arrives next on the scene. Bottom line: the Bills' divisional status is totally fine, and moving them to the central division will result in two rivalries that may one day match the rivalries the Bills now have v. the Dolphins and the Jets or Patriots (take your pick). The chance of Buffalo selling out against Cincy (no matter how good they are) after November 15 in any season is practically nil. As to one of your other points about the Dolphins' rivalry: won/loss records. This is sophistry. Of course the Bills regarded Miami as a hated rival because of the constant pounding they took from them in the 1970s. I loved those games and cared about them more than the other ones *precisely* because of the streak. This isn't Sampras/Agassi; it's two diametrically opposed cities. It's about as good a rivalry as the Bills are going to get. Indeed, one can't name another rivalry that the Bills possess that approaches it. Physical proximity isn't necessarily productive of rivalries in any case. The Pittsburgh/Cincinnati and Bears/Lions "rivalries" (two sets of teams, moreover, that have been in the same division with each other for decades) are no match for Dallas/Washington, Broncos/Raiders, Dallas/Giants, Jets/Dolphins, and KC/Raiders. The difference is that these teams don't need ringers from their opponents' hometowns to sell out their stadium. Unfortunately, the Bills do. 867659[/snapback] You should only be shot for using the word "sophistry" on a football message board McBride. You and Leah have been good to me over the years so I'll let it slide this time but next time... As for the rest of your post c'mon Dave! I give you more credit than a doofus like gordio but some of your points don't mesh. I'm still trying to make heads or tails out of your Cleveland comment. Of course the three games were atypical....that's precisely because we didn't play the Browns that often. How could they be typical? I'm just saying the atmosphere was really great. I doubt very much they have atmosphere like that at Pro Player before a Fins/Bills game. As for remembering that embarassing string of defeats to Miami in the seventies I'm a little older than you and the only one I remember was in '79 when I attended the Dempsey miss game where Csonka plunged it into the endzone for the win. That's it....that's the only one. I don't think any of them were truly as memorable as you make them out to be. I think our only real "rival" in the division would be the Jets and that's basically because of the large amount of moronic Long Island fratboys that attend who make the game unbearable. Patriots? Who cares? How could we have another rival? We've only been playing the same three teams six times a year for what is decades now. As for your claim that most rivalries are not geographical by nature that's nonsense. Red Sox/Yankees, Chicago/Green Bay, Montreal/Toronto? You even failed to mention the Browns/Steelers rivalry, a rivalry between two cities a hundred miles apart that far outshines the rinky dink Miami/Bills supposed rivalry. Sabres/Leafs? Obviously of more interest to Buffalo sports fans that tomorrow's game against the Dolphins. So we're stuck in this boring division for the sole reason that Ralphie couldn't get use of the Orange Bowl back in '58 from the city of Miami so we all gotta pay for his grudge against the city of Miami. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Balls Posted December 16, 2006 Share Posted December 16, 2006 Nobody knew the Browns were moving at the time of the 95 game. Nice to know you have your 'fuggin' facts straight though. 868207[/snapback] No you're right nobody really did. My sister and I struck up a conversation during that Monday Night game with two really diehard Browns fans (are there any other?) in front of us and they absolutely dismissed any talk of the Browns moving at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zulu Cthulhu Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 I say a move to the North would be phenomenal. C'mon the old AFL rivalries have passed. The North teams -- especially the Steelers and Browns -- are the teams with fans, cities and style of play that are most similar to the Bills. If you put the Bills in this division, new rivalries would develop fast. Maybe the Rothilsberger-Losman comparisons would rival the the Marino-Kelly comparisons. Let's face it, the Buffalo-Miami rivalry is not there anymore. Let's move on. 867667[/snapback] Sooo.. why would these rivalries develop exactly? I don't see any real REASONING in this little spray of brain diarrhea. Because the cities of Buffalo, Pitt, and Cleveland are "similar" new rivalries will develop fast. Well sorry to spoil your party, but our biggest current rivalry (albeit not as heated as it once was) flies right in the face of this argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JDG Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 1995 must of been an absolute ugly atmosphere since the fans knew the team was moving the next year, 867663[/snapback] I was actually in Cleveland during that game.... and the atmosphere was actually pretty good as "the announcement" wouldn't come for a couple more weeks yet. Interestingly enough, the announcement was made the same day that Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated. The next day, the headline of the Cleveland Plain Dealer was "Modell Moving Browns to Baltimore" - the Rabin assassination was below the fold. I sometimes joke to my Cleveland friends, when they wonder why their team has had so much bad luck in its resurrection that they are suffering from "the curse of Yitzhak Rabin" and that the Browns will never win a Super Bowl until there is peace between Israel and Palestine.... ;-) JDG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 It is fascinating, but at that point not only did no one expect the Browns to move, also at that point many pundits, considering how well the Browns had done in 1994, had picked them to be the sleeper team for the playoffs that year. Those who watched it on MNF will remember that the broadcast started with a long Drew-Carey themed circle jerk to Cleveland (his show was just starting on ABC) that did not happen to mention whom the Browns were playing that night. That game rocked... Jimbo threw a late TD to Reed to win it, if I remember correctly. He also threw one to one of those interchangeable white guys we kept signing hoping to find the next Don Beebe... the name is escaping me (it is more elusive than the receiver in question)..... I was actually in Cleveland during that game.... and the atmosphere was actually pretty good as "the announcement" wouldn't come for a couple more weeks yet. Interestingly enough, the announcement was made the same day that Yitzhak Rabin was assassinated. The next day, the headline of the Cleveland Plain Dealer was "Modell Moving Browns to Baltimore" - the Rabin assassination was below the fold. I sometimes joke to my Cleveland friends, when they wonder why their team has had so much bad luck in its resurrection that they are suffering from "the curse of Yitzhak Rabin" and that the Browns will never win a Super Bowl until there is peace between Israel and Palestine.... ;-) JDG 868729[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 It is fascinating, but at that point not only did no one expect the Browns to move, also at that point many pundits, considering how well the Browns had done in 1994, had picked them to be the sleeper team for the playoffs that year. Those who watched it on MNF will remember that the broadcast started with a long Drew-Carey themed circle jerk to Cleveland (his show was just starting on ABC) that did not happen to mention whom the Browns were playing that night. That game rocked... Jimbo threw a late TD to Reed to win it, if I remember correctly. He also threw one to one of those interchangeable white guys we kept signing hoping to find the next Don Beebe... the name is escaping me (it is more elusive than the receiver in question)..... 868889[/snapback] Justin Armour(sp?) And the Browns were def. a popular SB pick that year. They won on a Christie FG though after he had originally missed but it didn't count because Carl Banks (or maybe Pepper Johnson....1 of Bellicheck's Giants cronnies) called time out just before the snap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 Justin Armour(sp?) And the Browns were def. a popular SB pick that year. They won on a Christie FG though after he had originally missed but it didn't count because Carl Banks (or maybe Pepper Johnson....1 of Bellicheck's Giants cronnies) called time out just before the snap 868893[/snapback] Yes, Justin Armour! Good memory. I knew it wasn'T Brad Lamb, but he was the only one I could think of. So the TD pass to Reed pulled them close late? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted December 17, 2006 Share Posted December 17, 2006 WE WILL NEVER MOVE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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