Fake-Fat Sunny Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Thank you sir! I said before Peyton said it's the best way to learn and his word is has good as any. I know many don't know that Dennis Shaw was benched half way threw Fergy's rookie year and he did very good for a rookie. If he's healed then what's the point. I'm so sick of Bledslow. 49397[/snapback] Peyton Manning is clearly a singular talent at QB in the NFL and why anyone would simply take what worked well for Manning as the method which must be followed by lesser QBs (I think Losman is no Peyton Manning, do you think he is?) makes little sense. My sense of Losman is that when one looks at his specific pluses and minuses shown by his performance in college and in the pre-season, he is a player who stands to improve and profit most from things he will learn off-field rather than things he will learn on-field. In terms of his development, both is better! By playing the game, he will see NFL Ds up close and personal, assuming he is not killed will learn to play at NFL speeds against NFL opponents and will learn to make good decisions under the gun. However, from what I have seen of Losman, I'm less worried about him perfecting these skills than: 1. He needs to practice his mechanics so he always is throwing off the correct foot and getting the most jucie out of his body for any pass he throws. The highlight films from Tulane I have seen show JP making some phenomenal throws under the gun because the Tulane blocking was so bad, however, though one canget away with questionable throws, spirals and accuracy in college he will likely get raped if this is the norm of his pro style. Even worse, co-ordination rather than free-lancing is even more important at the Pro level and he will have to make the same throw the same way for his recevers. I see his work in this regard as watching a lot of film to understand what he could do better and watching film of the good QBs like Manning to learn what they do well. This will need to be augmented with him getting on the field for practice throwing, and also working with running patterns with Evans and the reserves, but i think he has work to do in this area before he gets the practice of doing this in a real game. he should be working on this now even without being able to take the field. 2. He needs to understand how our offense works and be able to anticipate Clements calls even before he makes them. Again film review is the key. 3. If he gets really good not only will the Bills O become second nature to him, but he will learn opposing Ds as well. JP really has a singular opportunity right now to make himself a better more productive QB without the distraction of being prepard for this weeks gameplan so that he doesn't pull a Billy Joe Hobert if he were the back-up or even the disaster QB. I for one would love to see JP on the filed being Peyton Manning but he isn't Peyton Manning from all I have seen, he really looks like he will be more productive in even the short-run (next year) for the Bills devoting his time right now to soaking up knowledge from Sam Wyche than worrying about Troy Vincent taking off his head for being an uppity rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Peyton Manning is clearly a singular talent at QB in the NFL and why anyone would simply take what worked well for Manning as the method which must be followed by lesser QBs (I think Losman is no Peyton Manning, do you think he is?) makes little sense. My sense of Losman is that when one looks at his specific pluses and minuses shown by his performance in college and in the pre-season, he is a player who stands to improve and profit most from things he will learn off-field rather than things he will learn on-field. In terms of his development, both is better! By playing the game, he will see NFL Ds up close and personal, assuming he is not killed will learn to play at NFL speeds against NFL opponents and will learn to make good decisions under the gun. However, from what I have seen of Losman, I'm less worried about him perfecting these skills than: 1. He needs to practice his mechanics so he always is throwing off the correct foot and getting the most jucie out of his body for any pass he throws. The highlight films from Tulane I have seen show JP making some phenomenal throws under the gun because the Tulane blocking was so bad, however, though one canget away with questionable throws, spirals and accuracy in college he will likely get raped if this is the norm of his pro style. Even worse, co-ordination rather than free-lancing is even more important at the Pro level and he will have to make the same throw the same way for his recevers. I see his work in this regard as watching a lot of film to understand what he could do better and watching film of the good QBs like Manning to learn what they do well. This will need to be augmented with him getting on the field for practice throwing, and also working with running patterns with Evans and the reserves, but i think he has work to do in this area before he gets the practice of doing this in a real game. he should be working on this now even without being able to take the field. 2. He needs to understand how our offense works and be able to anticipate Clements calls even before he makes them. Again film review is the key. 3. If he gets really good not only will the Bills O become second nature to him, but he will learn opposing Ds as well. JP really has a singular opportunity right now to make himself a better more productive QB without the distraction of being prepard for this weeks gameplan so that he doesn't pull a Billy Joe Hobert if he were the back-up or even the disaster QB. I for one would love to see JP on the filed being Peyton Manning but he isn't Peyton Manning from all I have seen, he really looks like he will be more productive in even the short-run (next year) for the Bills devoting his time right now to soaking up knowledge from Sam Wyche than worrying about Troy Vincent taking off his head for being an uppity rookie. 50014[/snapback] I think this issue is a REAL tough call...Of coarse, if the Bills beat NE Sunday, this argument should get pushed off at least for another week or two. That being said, assuming the Bills are 1-5 or 2-4 after the Baltimore Road Game, I would have JP ready to Start vs. Arizona at Home. I agree with both sides of this actually...Sitting behind Bledsoe will do nothing but help JP's progress, but there is also no substitute for the real thing. Look at Carson Palmer this year. Yes he sat and got valuable learning time last year, but the Bengals look to be heading towards the possibility of missing the playoffs this year in order for Palmer to take his lumps. If JP was able to Start 10 Games this Season, I believe the progression in his game will be significant by the time 2005 comes around. There is just no substitute for live bullets, and he will struggle, that is a given... The health issue seems to be a concern for some here, but if he's cleared to take contact he's ready...period. This is NFL Football, it's a brutal Game and you just can't protect a guy because you fear injury. What happened to JP was a freak accident, and I seriously doubt the injury will be an issue by the time Oct. 31st comes around. Now here's the key to this whole deal. First off, Bills Fans will have to realize the Season, for all intents and purposes, will be over if Losman is entered in as the Starter. The reason I believe that to be true is because I feel MM, Wyche, and Clements must stick to the Game Plans that allow JP to be relatively successful. That means a TON of running the Ball, Play Action, etc. They will have to dial things WAY back in order to allow JP to learn on the Job, and to keep him from geting killed... In the end, I just can't see the Bills keeping Bledsoe in there if the Season looks lost anyway. And I do believe the Arizona Home Game will be a great opportunity to get JP in there vs. a less than average opponent. Right now Arizona is 0-3 and giving up 370 yds. per Game on Defense. Who knows? Maybe JP gets a little confidence in that Game, the Bills win, and all of a sudden the Team gets a spark. Like I said, if they are 2-4 or 1-5 before Arizona, I think it's a good time to throw the Kid out there and see what happens... Disregard if the Bills win Sunday though. And that's what I want right now more than anything, even JP...B) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justice Posted September 29, 2004 Author Share Posted September 29, 2004 I think that Losman NEEDS to play this season, but us fans need to adjust our expectations. It's not important that Losman comes in and does or doesn't play up to the level of Manning, Marino, or McNabb, either in their rookie season or prime. What IS important is that Losman simply breathes some life into this team and gives management help to determine what our true week points are. Is it the 0-line? Tight end? Can we say for sure that our veteran QB is no longer servicable? Is it the scheme or how the scheme is applied? Very few lessons can be learned by continuing to stay the course. It is necessary to experiment to see what does and doesn't work with our personnel. You make some good points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Actually, FWIW I'm pretty sure Fergy started every game. It was his job to hand the ball to OJ or the FB (who together racked up almost 1000 yds to go w/ OJ's 2003). When it was necessary to throw more than 20% of the time, that was when Fergy was benched in favor of Shaw. 49563[/snapback] Well you got one out 2 right....Fergy only started after Shaw was benched midway threw the season. He did not start every game. Your right about what he did with the ball. They had the best RB in the league and Jim Braxton was a good fullback so somewhat like the Bills this year they kept it on the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seq004 Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Actually, FWIW I'm pretty sure Fergy started every game. It was his job to hand the ball to OJ or the FB (who together racked up almost 1000 yds to go w/ OJ's 2003). When it was necessary to throw more than 20% of the time, that was when Fergy was benched in favor of Shaw. 49563[/snapback] My bad, you were absolutly right. I looked it up at billszone. He beat him out in preseason. Old-timers kicking in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest I'm the quarterback! Posted September 29, 2004 Share Posted September 29, 2004 Peyton Manning is clearly a singular talent at QB in the NFL and why anyone would simply take what worked well for Manning as the method which must be followed by lesser QBs (I think Losman is no Peyton Manning, do you think he is?) makes little sense. My sense of Losman is that when one looks at his specific pluses and minuses shown by his performance in college and in the pre-season, he is a player who stands to improve and profit most from things he will learn off-field rather than things he will learn on-field. In terms of his development, both is better! By playing the game, he will see NFL Ds up close and personal, assuming he is not killed will learn to play at NFL speeds against NFL opponents and will learn to make good decisions under the gun. However, from what I have seen of Losman, I'm less worried about him perfecting these skills than: 1. He needs to practice his mechanics so he always is throwing off the correct foot and getting the most jucie out of his body for any pass he throws. The highlight films from Tulane I have seen show JP making some phenomenal throws under the gun because the Tulane blocking was so bad, however, though one canget away with questionable throws, spirals and accuracy in college he will likely get raped if this is the norm of his pro style. Even worse, co-ordination rather than free-lancing is even more important at the Pro level and he will have to make the same throw the same way for his recevers. I see his work in this regard as watching a lot of film to understand what he could do better and watching film of the good QBs like Manning to learn what they do well. This will need to be augmented with him getting on the field for practice throwing, and also working with running patterns with Evans and the reserves, but i think he has work to do in this area before he gets the practice of doing this in a real game. he should be working on this now even without being able to take the field. 2. He needs to understand how our offense works and be able to anticipate Clements calls even before he makes them. Again film review is the key. 3. If he gets really good not only will the Bills O become second nature to him, but he will learn opposing Ds as well. JP really has a singular opportunity right now to make himself a better more productive QB without the distraction of being prepard for this weeks gameplan so that he doesn't pull a Billy Joe Hobert if he were the back-up or even the disaster QB. I for one would love to see JP on the filed being Peyton Manning but he isn't Peyton Manning from all I have seen, he really looks like he will be more productive in even the short-run (next year) for the Bills devoting his time right now to soaking up knowledge from Sam Wyche than worrying about Troy Vincent taking off his head for being an uppity rookie. 50014[/snapback] Agreed but please anyone but Bledsoe, replace Bledsoe with anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Guest Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 JPL = RJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg de'Ville Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 ...huh? Jimmy Swagger? J.P. Swagger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tatonka12 Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 I certainly hope they don't toss JP to the wolves coming off a broken leg. The future needs to be protected better than that. 49148[/snapback] the future???????????? that remains to be seen,sorry but Ive hear that one too many times over the last 7\8 years or so .I'll belive it when I see it! and from what little Ive seen I think there will be a lot of dissapointed bills fans once agian!we need a leader IF he's it ! he'll have to prove it!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fla Bills Fan Posted September 30, 2004 Share Posted September 30, 2004 He needs experience. Let him make rookie mistakes in a year that doesn't matter and then next year he will be ready. You can't sit a guy because your afraid he might get hurt. Football doesn't work that way. You can't learn how to swim without getting in the water. BTW. I'm willing to bet the O-Line doesn't look as bad with JP at QB 49145[/snapback] Yeah, what you said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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