SDS Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Let us know the scoop on Mike and what he did and did not do for your organization... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
airhunter11 Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Just reading some posts from this Brett Favre (lol?????) forum...and it seems like they really care about the guy. He seems to be well spoken and respected in Packer circles despite his firing. Seems to me like they still want him. Sherman Posts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dry martini Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Just reading some posts from this Brett Favre (lol?????) forum...and it seems like they really care about the guy. He seems to be well spoken and respected in Packer circles despite his firing. Seems to me like they still want him. Sherman Posts 570267[/snapback] The most interesting comment was the quote from PackerNews that Sherman's contract extension will pay him 3.2 million next season minus anything he gets from another team. Ralph Wilson's reaction to the PackerNews article: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Mom Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I guess folks don't want to bother registering or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenmachine Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Let us know the scoop on Mike and what he did and did not do for your organization... 570248[/snapback] Well I'll say that when nobody expected Mike Sherman to be the head coach for the Packers when he they had a vacancy in 2000 after they fired Ray Rhodes. I also don't think many expected him to be hired for the GM position in 2001. Many Green Bay fans didn't feel that he was ready for that at the time. IMO Sherman was so so as a GM. He had many ups and downs along the way. After going 8-8 with Rhodes he was fired. Sherman took over and led them records of 9-7 in 2000, 12-4 in 2001, 12-4 in '02, 10-6 in 2003 and 10-6 in '04, and 4-12 this past year. IMO Sherman is a decent coach. A business like coach. Not a great motivator. Many times over the years it just seemed like the Packers did not get up enough for certain games or were just outcoached when they shouldn't have been. Even when the Packers had there best years in 01 and 02 under Sherman it always felt like they could have and should have done more. The Packers IMO were the best team in a weak division when they won there 3 straight division titles under Sherman. And it usually showed when they got into the playoffs. They never made it past the second round in the playoffs under Sherman. The mystique that the Packers had under Holmgren of being unbeatable at home was lost under Sherman. There best chance of advancing past the second round was in 2003 against the Eagles. IMO the Packers should have won that game. There were several reasons why GB didn't win but one of the main things that sticks out besides 4th and 26 in alot of Packers fans minds is when Sherman punted the ball on 4th and 1 at around the Philly 39 yard line towards the end of the game. A first down there probably would have gotten them the win. Sherman decides to punt and Philly tied the game I believe. Sometimes he's too conservative IMO. He had a pretty good amount of talent in Green Bay but Green Bay never had a defense under Sherman like they did under Holmgren and that possbily is one reason also why they never got to an NFC title game or Super Bowl. In 05 Sherman was relieved of his GM duties to concentrate on coaching. Ted Thompson was brought in and did let Mike Wahle, Rivera, and Darren Sharper go. If Sherman had stayed GM I believe the Packers would have been in a better situation to win this past year. He more than likely would have kept OG Mike Wahle even though they were kind of tight against they cap they could have made it work. And also maybe would have gotten a little better help when other players like WR Javon Walker and Terrance Murphy went down with injuries. Yes the Packers did lose some talent this past year in FA but injuries also sealed Mike Sherman's fate as well. IMO Green Bay looked stale, predictable, and uninspired this past year. Sherman also from what I've heard didn't really have a relationship with new GM Ted Thompson. It's gotta be tough to lose your GM role and just so back to being the coach after having it for 4 years. Even though Sherman had his flaws he is a very dedicated coach. He is a solid coach. Maybe a change of scenery is all he needs to get back on track. I just hope that if Tom Rossley his good buddy is your Offensive Coordinator that he isn't calling plays. He's too predictable. Sherman took over playcalling from him last year and they went on a nice winning streak. I can honestly say after going 4-12 in 05 those 3 straight division titles in 02,03, and 04 felt pretty good. Of all the candidates out there Sherman would probably be a good fit for you guys. After the Holmgren years Green Bay fans (myself included) were pretty hard to please. Most people in Green Bay felt he deserved another chance this past year due to injuries and loss of talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 TEA wrote over at packerchatters.com: "I think Sherman might be a good fit for the Bills. He certainly has demonstrated his ability to put together a decent staff of assistants, manage the heck out of practice schedules and players, and inspire them enough at just the right time to pull out play-off experiences. I have to be honest that letting Sherman go at this time was the right thing for the Packers to do. Not having any inside sources, I speculate that Sherman had created such a close, comfortable "family" atmosphere amongst his loyal players that he just couldn't come down hard on ones who were continually making the same mistakes over and over, leading to declining success. I think Sherman the GM left Sherman the HC with too many holes and not enough quality depth and when we suffered all those injuries, our season spiraled downward to the 4-12 mess we got this year. I have no way of knowing what sort of conditioning program Rubin designed and Sherman approved, but for years we have suffered multiple nagging injuries like pulled groins and hamstrings, leaving several players unable to practice from early in TC to the start of the regular season. Sherman always "erred on the side of caution" leaving the players and units with lack of reps to be sharp until 4-6 games into the season. Our new coaching staff must see a problem too as they have fired our strength and conditioning coach Sherman has a great December record but needed to after getting off to several sluggish starts. Several on this board have been critical of Sherman's game time decisions and lack of ability to make adjustments, as well as not having his teams ready to match the intensity of their opponents. I agree with those views. Sherman is a high character guy, a great citizen and public figure for your community, but I just lost confidence that he could ever out coach his opponents and win the big games with the chips on the table. Apparantly Ted Thompson thought the same thing, at least at this time in Packer history. I hope Sherman gets a new start somewhere so we can see if we were right or wrong. Best of luck with whoever your new coach is." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 Deadfish added: "I think MS is is very well organized, so he always has his team prepared. I also think he is fair with his players and therefore has their respect. I don't know if he makes the greatest game day decisions, but I think this is more of a cases where he's taken chances and things haven't worked out." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SDS Posted January 17, 2006 Author Share Posted January 17, 2006 my link over there in case you want to visit... http://www.packerchatters.com/forums/index...?showtopic=2543 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorolf Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Hi everyone. Mike Sherman is a very GOOD man who cares about his players and is a tireless worker. He loves the game, and puts pretty much everything he has into the job. Sherman is a solid coach that was able to keep the players fighting through some pretty adverse conditions this year. Personally, though, I wanted to bring in a new coach. His playcalling, or rather that of his pal Tom Rossley who he refused to fire, is insanely predictable. Everyone and their mother knew what was going to be called on third down and in a wide variety of situations. The team even bragged (maybe not a great word) that they could move the ball on certain plays, such as the famous U-71 package, despite the fact that the other side knew what was coming. Then, we saw the talent level drop precipitously due to injuries and the loss of our two guards and suddenly those screen plays and sweeps didn't work so well. But his predictability and typically conservative plays were only part of what I perceived as an issue. Many Packer fans would disagree with me about the importance of motivation, but I was constantly frustrated by the fact that the team would come out of the tunnel flat far too often. Even if they came out on fire to start the game, they would be flat after halftime. With all the one-score games we lost this year, I truly believe that was a significant issue. I like Mike Sherman and believe that he will take some lessons learned from this year to his next job. He has the potential to be a very, very good head coach, but is probably a touch overrated at this point due to the talent he had playing for him. He is too loyal to his friends on the coaching staff, and has to make sure the team is ready to play at peak levels every time they step out of the tunnel, but I believe that overall he will do a solid job wherever he lands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
faede Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Mike Sherman is going to get you a ton of divergent opinions. Some Packer fans hated him. Some loved him. In the end, I just think his time had run out. What you get with Mike Sherman is organization. The guy knows how to run a team. Practices are crisp and well planned. He's absolutely meticulous. Unbelievably hard worker. His a disciplinarian, but not harshly so... the inmates do NOT run the asylum. He has an O-Line background and came up with the U-71 run formation for us, which was very very effective. When he was fired.. he went to the team and gave a small speech. The players gave him a standing ovation and did so for a good while. He will grind some players the wrong way.. especially the flashy showboat type. He loves his players and his players, for the most part, love him. Probably the highlight of his coaching career was getting in the face of Warren Sapp after he blindsided our LT, Chad Clifton with a cheap shot. What you won't get... Mike Sherman is not a fiery coach. He doesn't show a lot of emotion. He's even keel through thick and thin. He's not the best developmental guy. He's not going to teach your young players to make big leaps unless he hires good position coaches. He sticks with coaches too long. It's admirable, but there a time when you just have to cut bait on a bad coach. He won't. He's not an offensive genius. He's not going to perform miracles on your offense. His pretty conservative, for the most part. You're not looking at a guy who'll take a ton of chances. By the way. If you hire Mike Sherman, there's at least a shot he'd try to bring Jim Bates with him.. as he is no longer our DC. That's a positive right there!! Overall. He's a good coach. He got a raw deal in Green Bay, but it was probably about time he moved on. He's a great man. He grew up on the east coast. And if you give him a solid defense, he'll do very well. He took a Green Bay team that was headed into mediocrity and quite simply didn't have that great of talent and turned them around for one last solid playoff run until it all bottomed out. He's a good coach. He'd do well in Buffalo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milwaukeefan Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 From Packerchatters and here is my two cents on Mike Sherman. If you would read half of the posters over there, you would think we fired Vince Lombardi and Ted Thompson (the GM) was the anti-christ himself. Mike Sherman's teams were very talented in his early years of his career and in my opinion underachieved greatly. I am not sure if this was his fault or just the players. Towards the end when talent left or was traded elsewhere his teams began a slide. The last 3 years his teams had to get behind the 8-ball with 1-4 starts or 2-4 starts before they played with any urgency. It seemed they felt they could just toss their helmet on the field and the other teams would fold. I would think Sherman could take a talented team to the playoffs but if you ask him to develop young players it would be a challenge that I am not sure he could do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Love Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I'm a die hard lifelong Packers fan reporting in as requested: I sincerely believe Mike Sherman is a very average Head Coach in the NFL and was a fairly mediocre HC in the playoffs. He did improve upon his first playoff coaching experience which was the debacle in St Louis where he and his coaches devised a 3 DL/8 DB lineup to combat the Rams passing attack. After getting blown out, thankfully he never tried that defense again. Mike Sherman is an exceptionally good person, a high character guy. He would be great for the community of Buffalo. He would do charity work in Buffalo, he would demand good character from his players and coaches (and would generally get it). Team chemistry is big with him. I'd invite him to my parent's house for dinner, I'd trust him around my wife, and I'm thrilled that he is no longer coaching the Packers. The guy is loyal to a fault. And I mean that literally. Despite his good friend Tom Rossley being an extremely predictable and occasionally inept (imho) Offensive Coordinator, Sherman stuck with him. Despite some of his favorite players (such as Robert Ferguson or Cletidus Hunt) not playing up to their potential, he stuck with them. He never held Brett Favre accountable when Favre continually threw passes up for grabs en route to a 29 INT season. Just pray he never becomes your GM. In my opinion he was one of the worst GM's in football in the last 10 years. He traded up in the 3rd round to draft the worst punter in the NFL (!), he gave multi-million dollar contracts to loafers like Hunt. He passed on Chris Chambers to draft Robert Ferguson (actually that was technically Ron Wolf's pick in Wolf's last year as GM, but it has been acknowledged that it was Sherman's pick). He traded away literally a dozen draft picks to move up in the draft 7 or 8 times in 4 years, thus gutting the teams' depth. He traded up for Hunter Hillenmayer, then cut him after 3 weeks of training camp because someone else was supposedly a better special teams player, and Hillenmayer ended up starting at LB for the Bears. To his credit he did hit on a few good draft picks such as Javon Walker and Nick Barnett Sherman is very good at game preparation, and is somewhat innovative in devising offensive schemes. I think he is actually above average in calling plays. (Why he stuck with Rossley calling plays, I'll never know, but the Packers O was better when Sherman was calling plays). He is EXTREMELY organized. Most players love him, but some of his former players like Mike McKenzie hate him... The worst aspects of Sherman's coaching is in-game. He is very poor at clock management. He coaches not to lose, instead of coaching to win (Witness his not going for it on 4th and 1 in the 4th Quarter of a playoff game vs the Eagles when the Packers had 'em on the ropes and the Eagles couldn't stop the run...I think he lost some of the team after that game) I think, like Bill Bellichek, he has the potential to be much more successful his 2nd time around as a HC, but I kinda doubt it. Hope and pray he doesn't bring Tom Rossley with him, and keep him far away from the NFL draft. It is a legit concern to call into question his player evaluation skills... I think, at best, he is more like a Marty Shottenheimer, a good solid coach who can't win the big one One thing is for sure, he is the guy least likely to be on the TV news for being caught with 2 hookers and a snootful of blow, that ain't gonna happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Love Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 One other thing: check the stats on Sherman's won-loss record in September. The Packers ALWAYS started slow under him, every year, for whatever reason. When it happens a few times, that is one thing, but every year? Makes ya wonder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Wow thanks for the insight guys. Do you think where ever Sherman goes he will bring Bates with him? And how was Bates as a defensive coordinater? Thanks! And did the front office in Green Bay completely clean the coaching staff out? Who remains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorolf Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I strongly suspect that Bates will not be going anywhere with Sherman. Bates, however, is an excellent defensive coordinator. He got close to everything possible from the marginal talent we had this year and a lot of people wanted him to be the next head coach. And yes, I believe the entire coaching staff has now been cleared out. Oh, and the weight room assistant was fired, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mile High Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 I strongly suspect that Bates will not be going anywhere with Sherman. Bates, however, is an excellent defensive coordinator. He got close to everything possible from the marginal talent we had this year and a lot of people wanted him to be the next head coach. And yes, I believe the entire coaching staff has now been cleared out. Oh, and the weight room assistant was fired, too. 570455[/snapback] Was there friction between the two at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Love Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Wow thanks for the insight guys. Do you think where ever Sherman goes he will bring Bates with him? And how was Bates as a defensive coordinater? Thanks! And did the front office in Green Bay completely clean the coaching staff out? Who remains? 570451[/snapback] I think there is a good chance Bates might go where Sherman goes. Personally I think Bates is a little over-rated. His defenses in both Miami and Green Bay were not great against the run, and you know how that goes, "if you can't stop the run you can't win in the playoffs"..... Part of that is the scheme, part of it *might* have been personnel There are a few coaches who are still under contract but haven't been re-hired as of yet. For the most part the front office cleaned house, and I thank God for that. I don't know Buffalo Bills football like you guys do, but I'd take an 80 year old Marv Levy over Sherman any day... count me in as a bigtime Lee Evans fan, by the way, being from Wisconsin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Love Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Was there friction between the two at all? 570457[/snapback] Not publically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ Love Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Let me ask you guys a question: did the Packers dodge a bullet by not hiring Wade Phillips? (He interviewed for the position) I personally like the hiring of Mike McCarthy as the new Packers HC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorolf Posted January 17, 2006 Share Posted January 17, 2006 Was there friction between the two at all? 570457[/snapback] Nothing that was public knowledge, but I never got the impression that they became great friends or anything like that. In fact, I saw Bates show affection toward his defensive players, and several offensive players, but I don't recall even seeing the two of them TALK on the sideline, much less exchange friendly embraces, etc... Plus, Bates is jonesin' for a head coaching job himself. I can't imagine him agreeing to join the staff of a new coach with a likely 3-5 years minimum before a job opens up there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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