Kipers Hair Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 In August, there were a small group that believed the Bills were a 5-11 to 7-9 team at best due to the change at QB, the lack of OL development and ignoring the loss of Pat Williams. After witnessing yet another beating at the hands of a mediocre team, is everyone finally gettig comfortable with the fact that the Bills are still at least 2 years away from being a contender? IF JP is to be the next Eli Manning or as some like to believe Carson Palmer - that won't be until next year or later in Palmer's case. Maybe, (hopefully), the game will start to slow down for him, but we're going to need another 10 starts to determine if that will happen - will TD, (who's seat must be getting warmer by now), hang in there and give him the opportunity to play to see if he has what it takes? If it's about survival - we won't know if JP can play this year... The O-Line needs another year to plug in talent, (not on today's roster), and heavy prayer that the line will meld quickly. Face is, our OL Coach wonderboy might be good, but he can't make Wayne Gandy into O Pace, (or even a Glen Parker or Dusty Ziegler by the looks of it). Just as troubling - There is currently nobody on the roster to replace Pat Williams. With an honest eye - how's how next year will play out - we will draft a big man for the O or D line next year, (it will be a top 5 pick and Donohoe will take the riskier of the players available...because "he's a gutsy genius"), and get the other starters in Free Agency as we let Moulds go...(the spin TD put's on it is that his skills are deminishing...even though Jerry Rice would be a failure with JP throwing it to him). TD slaps the franchise tag in Clements - telling the fans he is committed to winning. The Bills retain his services for 2006 only as Clements will not sign a long term deal and will be gone in 2007. TD let's Fletcher walk, moves Spikes to the middle and tells everyone that this is an upgrade...fans hail TD's creative genius. TD signs some mediocre free agents, drafts a high motor white guy or two from a Big Ten school and the Mountain West, and signs an undrafted free agent who wowed everyone at the combine. We again read how JP is studying diligently and working out like madman..."boy, he looks like a linebacker"...The Buffalo News writes a couple of feel good stories about his family in CA standing by him through thick and thin...The fans go wild when JP sits in with the Lowest of the Low at Thursday in the Square... Camp opens - Willis is in Miami, holding out because he wants a long term deal. TD plays hardball and starts extolling the virtues of Shaud Williams - "Look at the stats last year...he averaged 4 yards a carry...". For security, TD brings in Marcell Shipp. TD spins his magic and the fans hail this visonary GM and start to talk of Executive of the year. We assuredly will be in the Superbowl this year...What with JP studying film and working out so much, our depth at RB, high draft pick talent at DT, (never mind they need 2-3 years in the league to develop), and all those free agents. Season ticket sales again grow...Face it, all TD does is put people in the seats...not winners on the field. We will never win with him at GM and Ralph in the owners box. Now go ahead - start throwing out your "doomed" lines or whatever other gibberish you have concocted, but realize, all of the cheering has still landed one victory so far. Keep settling for this swill TD is serving and nothing will improve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Surfmeister Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 "Season ticket sales again grow...Face it, all TD does is put people in the seats...not winners on the field. We will never win with him at GM and Ralph in the owners box." I have been saying this for years. Inside the offices at One Bills Drive it is a business that needs to make a profit. They need to be successful to keep the office staff and other workers employed. Their key to success is putting people in the seats. In the Buffalo market there is a magical thing that does this for the Bills front office ... hope. As long as the Bills fans have hope, they will buy the tcikets. Once the season tickets are sold, what happens on the field is sadly secondary. This is evident every off season while other teams are making exciting moves and trades there is nothing out of the Bills office. Bledsoe was a perfect example of a "new" player that gave the Bills fans enough hope to buy the tickets, but his play on the field behind the lame O Line was not the answer. Now he's gone, playing for the Tuna in Dallas. So with all this said and done ... Sunday rolls around in Buffalo New York. And it is either watch the Bills game in person or on TV or give up on the NFL. So people still watch the Bills. Just like that old old song by The Cars "You're all I've got tonight. I need you." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralVaBills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 In August, there were a small group that believed the Bills were a 5-11 to 7-9 team at best due to the change at QB, the lack of OL development and ignoring the loss of Pat Williams. After witnessing yet another beating at the hands of a mediocre team, is everyone finally gettig comfortable with the fact that the Bills are still at least 2 years away from being a contender? IF JP is to be the next Eli Manning or as some like to believe Carson Palmer - that won't be until next year or later in Palmer's case. Maybe, (hopefully), the game will start to slow down for him, but we're going to need another 10 starts to determine if that will happen - will TD, (who's seat must be getting warmer by now), hang in there and give him the opportunity to play to see if he has what it takes? If it's about survival - we won't know if JP can play this year... The O-Line needs another year to plug in talent, (not on today's roster), and heavy prayer that the line will meld quickly. Face is, our OL Coach wonderboy might be good, but he can't make Wayne Gandy into O Pace, (or even a Glen Parker or Dusty Ziegler by the looks of it). Just as troubling - There is currently nobody on the roster to replace Pat Williams. With an honest eye - how's how next year will play out - we will draft a big man for the O or D line next year, (it will be a top 5 pick and Donohoe will take the riskier of the players available...because "he's a gutsy genius"), and get the other starters in Free Agency as we let Moulds go...(the spin TD put's on it is that his skills are deminishing...even though Jerry Rice would be a failure with JP throwing it to him). TD slaps the franchise tag in Clements - telling the fans he is committed to winning. The Bills retain his services for 2006 only as Clements will not sign a long term deal and will be gone in 2007. TD let's Fletcher walk, moves Spikes to the middle and tells everyone that this is an upgrade...fans hail TD's creative genius. TD signs some mediocre free agents, drafts a high motor white guy or two from a Big Ten school and the Mountain West, and signs an undrafted free agent who wowed everyone at the combine. We again read how JP is studying diligently and working out like madman..."boy, he looks like a linebacker"...The Buffalo News writes a couple of feel good stories about his family in CA standing by him through thick and thin...The fans go wild when JP sits in with the Lowest of the Low at Thursday in the Square... Camp opens - Willis is in Miami, holding out because he wants a long term deal. TD plays hardball and starts extolling the virtues of Shaud Williams - "Look at the stats last year...he averaged 4 yards a carry...". For security, TD brings in Marcell Shipp. TD spins his magic and the fans hail this visonary GM and start to talk of Executive of the year. We assuredly will be in the Superbowl this year...What with JP studying film and working out so much, our depth at RB, high draft pick talent at DT, (never mind they need 2-3 years in the league to develop), and all those free agents. Season ticket sales again grow...Face it, all TD does is put people in the seats...not winners on the field. We will never win with him at GM and Ralph in the owners box. Now go ahead - start throwing out your "doomed" lines or whatever other gibberish you have concocted, but realize, all of the cheering has still landed one victory so far. Keep settling for this swill TD is serving and nothing will improve... 462790[/snapback] Some of us even got grilled for not drinking the Kool-Aid and believing that the Bills were only decent last year because of their schedule. Hmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drnykterstein Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 It wasnt blind optimism, my optimism was based on the following formula: Given: JP > Bledsoe MM > GW + stupid Great Defense + Great ST - Bledsoe + (JP x Sam Wyche) + MM = Super Bowl anyways... yes my optimism is gone, the Bills are now in "prove it to me" mode Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BackInDaDay Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 No one can tell the future, but there are definately elements of truth buried beneath your sarcasm. Makes me uneasy, but that's one good post. I think this franchise is being primped to sell. RW doesn't have any family that wants to operate it, so he's gonna leave them the cash some outsider will pay him for it. Unfortunately, under those circumstances, all that matters is how the business looks on paper, not on the field. Well, family comes first, and what with the Federal inheritance taxes scheduled to revert back to their less forgiving nature in a few years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gantrules Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 My favorite line to this is "Give me a better option" I refuse to go to another Bills game until they make the playoffs. Period. I've wasted too much money as it is on a franchise that has things like the "Celebration of Champions" so we can remember what it was like when this team wasn't a disgrace. Call me fair weather but I've endured 10 years of being below mediocrity and have a hard time believing in a franchise that only values my money for a below average return. So, Mr. TD and Mr. Ralph Wilson you ain't getting another buck out of me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 My favorite line to this is "Give me a better option" I refuse to go to another Bills game until they make the playoffs. Period. I've wasted too much money as it is on a franchise that has things like the "Celebration of Champions" so we can remember what it was like when this team wasn't a disgrace. Call me fair weather but I've endured 10 years of being below mediocrity and have a hard time believing in a franchise that only values my money for a below average return. So, Mr. TD and Mr. Ralph Wilson you ain't getting another buck out of me. 462978[/snapback] I hope other fans are like you...but come Thursday, the bandwagon will be rolling again with visions of some great run and a fruitless sacrifice by TD...Until TD is gone, we'll suffer the same fate every week... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralVaBills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 My favorite line to this is "Give me a better option" I refuse to go to another Bills game until they make the playoffs. Period. I've wasted too much money as it is on a franchise that has things like the "Celebration of Champions" so we can remember what it was like when this team wasn't a disgrace. Call me fair weather but I've endured 10 years of being below mediocrity and have a hard time believing in a franchise that only values my money for a below average return. So, Mr. TD and Mr. Ralph Wilson you ain't getting another buck out of me. 462978[/snapback] I used to hate fans for jumping on the "I'm not going to anymore games bandwagon". However, with prices the way they are, so that these guys can live lavish lifestyles, your logic is more commonplace among fans. I will still go, just for the comraderie of the people around me, however, I understand why some may not be able to continue live support for monetary reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I used to hate fans for jumping on the "I'm not going to anymore games bandwagon". However, with prices the way they are, so that these guys can live lavish lifestyles, your logic is more commonplace among fans. I will still go, just for the comraderie of the people around me, however, I understand why some may not be able to continue live support for monetary reasons. 463193[/snapback] Hope you enjoy seeing the Bills move to Los Angeles and suddenly winning a Super Bowl, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralVaBills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hope you enjoy seeing the Bills move to Los Angeles and suddenly winning a Super Bowl, then. 463210[/snapback] I hope they don't move, but even more perplexing to me......how are they suddenly gonna win that Super Bowl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 Hope you enjoy seeing the Bills move to Los Angeles and suddenly winning a Super Bowl, then. 463210[/snapback] I've been waiting for this one...I also think it is inevitable...I hope not, but if this is a business, it's worth a Hell of a lot more in LA... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I hope they don't move, but even more perplexing to me......how are they suddenly gonna win that Super Bowl? 463219[/snapback] Simple, because once they move, the new owner will take the shackles off and they'll suddenly have a stadium with 8000 luxury seats and boxes. The root issue with the Bills today is not the coaching (though it certainly isn't helping), the GM (see above), but the OWNER and MARKET. WNY is an anemic economy at best. LA certainly is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralVaBills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I've been waiting for this one...I also think it is inevitable...I hope not, but if this is a business, it's worth a Hell of a lot more in LA... 463223[/snapback] This one is about as overused when things get tough about as much as the "It's only pre-season moron / Dooooooomed" crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 I've been waiting for this one...I also think it is inevitable...I hope not, but if this is a business, it's worth a Hell of a lot more in LA... 463223[/snapback] So, go ahead and throw your juvenile rant. See where that ends up, because if the fanbase starts thinking and acting liek you, that is EXACTLY what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralVaBills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Simple, because once they move, the new owner will take the shackles off and they'll suddenly have a stadium with 8000 luxury seats and boxes. The root issue with the Bills today is not the coaching (though it certainly isn't helping), the GM (see above), but the OWNER and MARKET. WNY is an anemic economy at best. LA certainly is not. 463226[/snapback] Can't really argue all that business stuff with you. What you say all makes sense. However, I'm not gonna worry about where the team ends up. We can certainly B word though about where the current regime is taking our franchise while it's in Buffalo. And in the last 5 years, it's abysmal. Nothing has panned out the way they have drawn it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralVaBills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 So, go ahead and throw your juvenile rant. See where that ends up, because if the fanbase starts thinking and acting liek you, that is EXACTLY what will happen. 463232[/snapback] That is definately true Joe. But in this day and age, you can't expect people to blindly throw away money at a bad product. Going to a pro sporting event isn't cheap anymore. People don't necessarily jump off of the bandwagon, they just need to watch where to best use their money. Especially if you aren't from Buffalo. And gas. And hotel prices, parking etc. There is a couple here in Richmond, that is gonna most likely drop their season tickets next year, and it's killing them, but hey.....I can't blame them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted October 3, 2005 Author Share Posted October 3, 2005 This one is about as overused when things get tough about as much as the "It's only pre-season moron / Dooooooomed" crowd. 463230[/snapback] Yeah but...If they are running the Bills like a business and not a passion, it makes sense to move it right? The Packers are an organization based in the passion of it's fan-base. While I think Ralph has the passion, what his family wants is a divestable asset... Unless the NFL moves in and protects the cities interests, the franchise as we know it will be moved..maybe not LA, but toronto seems an option as the NFL is proving that foreign markets are in the radar... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 That is definately true Joe. But in this day and age, you can't expect people to blindly throw away money at a bad product. Going to a pro sporting event isn't cheap anymore. People don't necessarily jump off of the bandwagon, they just need to watch where to best use their money. Especially if you aren't from Buffalo. And gas. And hotel prices, parking etc. There is a couple here in Richmond, that is gonna most likely drop their season tickets next year, and it's killing them, but hey.....I can't blame them. 463253[/snapback] I go to one game a year. Every year running for the past 10 years, I've been to at least one, if not more games. One year I even had season tickets. I'll continue to support the team, no matter what, because my heart would be broken if they ever left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 Simple, because once they move, the new owner will take the shackles off and they'll suddenly have a stadium with 8000 luxury seats and boxes. The root issue with the Bills today is not the coaching (though it certainly isn't helping), the GM (see above), but the OWNER and MARKET. WNY is an anemic economy at best. LA certainly is not. 463226[/snapback] What??? All the teams have the same salary cap. We can spend as much or as little as rules permit. This team has spent plenty of money bringing in some top tier talent (Spikes, Bledsoe, Fletcher, Milloy, Vincent,etc...) What we haven't done is spend the money on top tier coaching. We need to have the staff consist of the Walshes, the Fishers, etc... not the Pittsburgh connection rejects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CentralVaBills Posted October 3, 2005 Share Posted October 3, 2005 What??? All the teams have the same salary cap. We can spend as much or as little as rules permit. This team has spent plenty of money bringing in some top tier talent (Spikes, Bledsoe, Fletcher, Milloy, Vincent,etc...) What we haven't done is spend the money on top tier coaching. We need to have the staff consist of the Walshes, the Fishers, etc... not the Pittsburgh connection rejects. 463259[/snapback] BINGO. Think coaching doesn't help.....see Charlie Weis. Think great defenses don't win games despite having no offense....see Baltimore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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