JoeF Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 It seems from reports that both Bennie Anderson and L J Shelton are straight ahead blockers with limited mobility. That may be great for running between the tackles. However, if Willis's speed returns and with JP's mobility, are either the optimal type of lineman for the additions to the scheme we are going to make? Do they have the stamina to run the no huddle when we move to that pace? Think about this--Teague is pretty darn mobile, so is Chris V and so is Ross Tucker. One of the things that impressed me most about Mike Williams the last half of last year--was his ability to get out wide and downfield quickly once he got in some semblance of shape the last half of the season...I am not sure about Shelton but Anderson may never show this skill or stamina. Gandy does have this skill. This may be some of the hesitancy with acquiring either Shelton or Anderson. If the scheme adjustments involve more off tackle runs and roll outs, its interesting that they did not go harder after DeMulling, who is very mobile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 It seems from reports that both Bennie Anderson and L J Shelton are straight ahead blockers with limited mobility. That may be great for running between the tackles. However, if Willis's speed returns and with JP's mobility, are either the optimal type of lineman for the additions to the scheme we are going to make? Do they have the stamina to run the no huddle when we move to that pace? Think about this--Teague is pretty darn mobile, so is Chris V and so is Ross Tucker. One of the things that impressed me most about Mike Williams the last half of last year--was his ability to get out wide and downfield quickly once he got in some semblance of shape the last half of the season...I am not sure about Shelton but Anderson may never show this skill or stamina. Gandy does have this skill. This may be some of the hesitancy with acquiring either Shelton or Anderson. If the scheme adjustments involve more off tackle runs and roll outs, its interesting that they did not go harder after DeMulling, who is very mobile. 288237[/snapback] Teague has no power and is a finesse blocker. He maybe good against speed rushers, but he will never get any push in the run game, and will stuggle against power rushers. I have said it in the past but I have seen Shelton play RT, and he never got beat. Now granted most LE's are more power rushers and run specialists. That said, with a little TE support he has proven he doesn't get beat in the pass game, and he can move off the tckle spot and makes blocks in space. He is great at every aspect of run blocking. He will also do well in blocking on screens. Anderson, from what I saw is more then capable of moving from the guard spot. Again he pulled, and did everything needed with baltimore. They say he is a step slow in pass blocking, but as long as you have a FB or RB who can chip a blitzer up the middle Anderson will do well even in pass blocking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted March 26, 2005 Author Share Posted March 26, 2005 Teague has no power and is a finesse blocker. He maybe good against speed rushers, but he will never get any push in the run game, and will stuggle against power rushers. I have said it in the past but I have seen Shelton play RT, and he never got beat. Now granted most LE's are more power rushers and run specialists. That said, with a little TE support he has proven he doesn't get beat in the pass game, and he can move off the tckle spot and makes blocks in space. He is great at every aspect of run blocking. He will also do well in blocking on screens. Anderson, from what I saw is more then capable of moving from the guard spot. Again he pulled, and did everything needed with baltimore. They say he is a step slow in pass blocking, but as long as you have a FB or RB who can chip a blitzer up the middle Anderson will do well even in pass blocking. 288248[/snapback] Thanks VA. I have never seen either play much... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Navy Chief Navy Pride Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Teague has no power and is a finesse blocker. He maybe good against speed rushers, but he will never get any push in the run game, and will stuggle against power rushers. I have said it in the past but I have seen Shelton play RT, and he never got beat. Now granted most LE's are more power rushers and run specialists. That said, with a little TE support he has proven he doesn't get beat in the pass game, and he can move off the tckle spot and makes blocks in space. He is great at every aspect of run blocking. He will also do well in blocking on screens. Anderson, from what I saw is more then capable of moving from the guard spot. Again he pulled, and did everything needed with baltimore. They say he is a step slow in pass blocking, but as long as you have a FB or RB who can chip a blitzer up the middle Anderson will do well even in pass blocking. 288248[/snapback] Agreed. They have both proven themselves for their respective teams. I would love to see WM rush for 1500 yds behind that duo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Thanks VA. I have never seen either play much... 288257[/snapback] I am a fan of Anderson's. Although I have DTV, the locals pull in the Baltimore games as well as the Skins. because they are close I watch them a lot. Anderson is a mauler, and I think unfairly knocked for his pass coverage. I think Boller sucks, and when people knock Bledsoe, I say it could be worse and point out Boller as an example. As far as Shelton goes, I didn't know him until last year. he was written up and shown on several pregames shows when Arizona had somewhat of a resurgence mid-year. He was given credit for it, as they say he was solidifying the line. They also talked about his run-in with Green, and sveral media outlets really blasted Green because of it. Shelton from what I saw, is really a pretty good tackle and IMHO an upgrade over Jennings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 I am a fan of Anderson's. Although I have DTV, the locals pull in the Baltimore games as well as the Skins. because they are close I watch them a lot. Anderson is a mauler, and I think unfairly knocked for his pass coverage. I think Boller sucks, and when people knock Bledsoe, I say it could be worse and point out Boller as an example. As far as Shelton goes, I didn't know him until last year. he was written up and shown on several pregames shows when Arizona had somewhat of a resurgence mid-year. He was given credit for it, as they say he was solidifying the line. They also talked about his run-in with Green, and sveral media outlets really blasted Green because of it. Shelton from what I saw, is really a pretty good tackle and IMHO an upgrade over Jennings. 288265[/snapback] You hit the nail on the head on both counts. I've seen quite a few people knock anderson for pass blocking without mentioning the following. Boller sucks, and they have no wr's. When your pass blocking for a team who's qb has the accuracy of a blind man, and who's wr's can't create any seperation to save their lives pass blocking becomes quite difficult. I'd venture to say pass blocking for the ravens offense has to be the most difficult job for an olinemen in the entire nfl. If you're moderatly good at it than more power to you, and before people go knocking bennie anderson, from what I remember seeing last year all pro LT John Ogden got burnt pass blocking for Boller as well. Anderson is a mauler, and would be perfect with the mentality of the bills a smash mouth running team. I never watched many cardnial games but when I did see them play, LJ Shelton rarely ever got beat. He's good at pass blocking and a great run blocker, and while I wouldn't say he's an upgrade over jennings at least not pass blocking, he is imo a better run blocker. I'd call it an even squash. Losing jennings and replacing him with equal talent in shelton for less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Here is a starting comparison for some Bills vs. Shelton and Anderson. Jennings in 52 starts has had 13.5 sacks allowed and 26 penalties. Jennings made a mistake resulting in yards lost every .76 games. Shelton prior to this year was a LT. In 82 games he gave up 30 sacks and had 23 penalties. Shelton once every .63 games Pucillo had 12 starts and 6 sacks and 4 penalties Pucillo once every .833 games Villarrial has played in 132 games, only 24 sacks, and only 14 penalties. (note, I had no idea he was that good) CV once every .28 games - this is amazing Anderson 64 games, 18 sacks, and 22 penalties Anderson once every .61 games Gandy in 32 games has given up 15.5 sacks and has 9 penalties. Once every .77 games So again, if you are more of a stats guy, Anderson while not even close to Vilarrial is an improvement over Pucillo or Gandy. Shelton by the stats is a fairly big improvement over Jennings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Boller may suck but damn if he didn't tear us a new hole last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Oh yeah and Teague. he is interesting. At center he is shown as only giving up .5 sacks and 6 penalties. Teague Career stats show 78 games, 18.25 sacks, and 17 fumbles. So once every .45 games. This seems very respectable. But lets compare his stats at just left tackle. He had 50 games, with 17.75 sacks and 11 penalties. Once every .58 games. If you look at it, he is actually an huge upgrade over Jennings and a slight upgrade over Shelton. However, by the stats, you work on his penalties and leave him at center if those are correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Boller may suck but damn if he didn't tear us a new hole last year. 288300[/snapback] No as much as I look at football being a team game, and blame goes to multiple people, that was Drew's loss almost single handedly. He was terrible and gave the game away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Nice job, VA. Doesn't seem anyone else, at present, is interested in Anderson. Seems the Bills could sign him for the Vet min. or slightly above, if they wanted to. Hoping the Shelton deal goes through, plus a top road grader Guard is one of our 2 picks on Day 1 of draft day. Anderson keeps losing $$ every day and could be signed later for peanuts. I wonder how his conditioning is. Then again, I wonder how Sheltons conditioning is, which is why the Bills shouldn't fart around too long with this proposed deal. Making sure he's in playing shape by summer should be an important consideration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Boller may suck but damn if he didn't tear us a new hole last year. 288300[/snapback] K. Boller 10/19 86 0 0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Nice job, VA. Doesn't seem anyone else, at present, is interested in Anderson. Seems the Bills could sign him for the Vet min. or slightly above, if they wanted to. Hoping the Shelton deal goes through, plus a top road grader Guard is one of our 2 picks on Day 1 of draft day. Anderson keeps losing $$ every day and could be signed later for peanuts. I wonder how his conditioning is. Then again, I wonder how Sheltons conditioning is, which is why the Bills shouldn't fart around too long with this proposed deal. Making sure he's in playing shape by summer should be an important consideration. 288310[/snapback] Until, I looked it up, I didn't realize that Anderson had even give up that many sacks. Those numbers are okay for a starting guard, not great. I thought he was a little better then that, but those are still okay. What I am amazed at, and still can;t get over, is CV numbers. Those are great numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 26, 2005 Share Posted March 26, 2005 Some of the other FA we on this board brought up at various times: Mcdougle once every .72 M Rivera every .51 B Hamilton .49 Demulling .10 (again, surprising. These are great numbers) Ross .50 in games started Mckenzie .17 Vincent .48 in games started Gibson .65 in games started I noted the guys as in games started where they don't have a large majority of starts. Otherwise there stats will be skewed when they likely only played a few plays in a game or possibly special teams only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeF Posted March 26, 2005 Author Share Posted March 26, 2005 Tucker Tucker in 04 2 sacks and 5 penalties in 16 games (12 starts).... .58 ...not bad He had significant playing time in the other 4--so you could almost say .45 Ruben Brown... Ruben Has been above .75 the last three years.. This is pretty darn good way to judge VA.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 Oh yeah and Teague. he is interesting. At center he is shown as only giving up .5 sacks and 6 penalties. Teague Career stats show 78 games, 18.25 sacks, and 17 fumbles. So once every .45 games. This seems very respectable. But lets compare his stats at just left tackle. He had 50 games, with 17.75 sacks and 11 penalties. Once every .58 games. If you look at it, he is actually an huge upgrade over Jennings and a slight upgrade over Shelton. However, by the stats, you work on his penalties and leave him at center if those are correct. Sacks are worse than penalties. So going by sacks given-up, it's no surprise the Bills aren't high on Shelton at LT. And your stats should say .x mistakes per game. As for Teague at LT, considering that 11.25 of those sacks came less than 2 years after his ACL injury, he's probably better than what his stats show, but possibly still worse than Jennings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 Tucker Tucker in 04 2 sacks and 5 penalties in 16 games (12 starts).... .58 ...not bad He had significant playing time in the other 4--so you could almost say .45 Ruben Brown... Ruben Has been above .75 the last three years.. This is pretty darn good way to judge VA.... 288331[/snapback] It can be fairly accurate. But certain people want to skew it towards their views and try to say sacks count more then other penalties. Actually they really don't. Lost yardage whether from a hold or false start hurts just as much, and can actually force longer passing down and open up the line for even more sacks. Again, it is a pretty good estimate, obviously a trained scout also has to look at the individual for body type, speed, arm length, bending ability, intelligense, moving in traffic, etc... Again, it really does give a fairly good start for evaluation from a laymans eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 It seems from reports that both Bennie Anderson and L J Shelton are straight ahead blockers with limited mobility. That may be great for running between the tackles. However, if Willis's speed returns and with JP's mobility, are either the optimal type of lineman for the additions to the scheme we are going to make? Do they have the stamina to run the no huddle when we move to that pace? Think about this--Teague is pretty darn mobile, so is Chris V and so is Ross Tucker. One of the things that impressed me most about Mike Williams the last half of last year--was his ability to get out wide and downfield quickly once he got in some semblance of shape the last half of the season...I am not sure about Shelton but Anderson may never show this skill or stamina. Gandy does have this skill. This may be some of the hesitancy with acquiring either Shelton or Anderson. If the scheme adjustments involve more off tackle runs and roll outs, its interesting that they did not go harder after DeMulling, who is very mobile. 288237[/snapback] I think more than what type of O-Lineman the Bills need, they need guys who can Block period. Right now the Bills are without their #1 and #3 OT's, and with Tucker and Teague returning as Starters...They can do better...that's for certain... Personally, I can't see how the Bills could possibly walk away from Shelton...And believe me, I have no idea if Shelton will actually be decent at all...But I think it's a gamble well worth taking at this point... I'm no GM, and I guess that's a good thing for all of us...But I have to admit I would have taken Shelton for Henry straight up in about a heartbeat... As far as Anderson is concerned...I'm all for that too... All eyes on TD I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 It can be fairly accurate. But certain people want to skew it towards their views and try to say sacks count more then other penalties. Actually they really don't. Lost yardage whether from a hold or false start hurts just as much, and can actually force longer passing down and open up the line for even more sacks. Sacks are worse than penalties. They're not only lost yardage, they're a lost down and they also expose the QB to injury. Penalties are a replay of down and the QB rarely gets touched, and a false start being 5 yards is actually LESS than the average yardage lost on a sack. Again, seeing Shelton's sack numbers, it explains why the Bills aren't jumping on trading Henry straight-up for him. I guess the hope is that McNally can make him better, and if the deal goes down, I sure hope so. As for Anderson, he can't pull and that's probably the reason the Bills aren't jumping on him either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted March 27, 2005 Share Posted March 27, 2005 Another thing WRT Villarrial's numbers versus a guy like DeMulling is that CV was protecting lousy QB's for a good portion of his career, whereas DeMulling was protecting Manning. That's pretty significant. It also puts Anderson in a better light, as mentioned above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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