MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I'm much in favor of upgrading the talent level of our OL.But a QB with some wheels will take a ton of pressure off any OL. You mean like Michael Vick and the 46 sacks HE took? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Enough talk... I agree. Time to finally address the O-line properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I agree. Time to finally address the O-line properly. 229236[/snapback] I really think we need to draft some talent, not free agents or converted left tackles. If TD can't get some talent in the second day of the draft, something is wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KurtGodel77 Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 Like I said, when the Bills can field an O-line that doesn't put Willis in the top-3 in rushes for losses, when they can find a reliable 3rd WR, and when they can get a decent TE and/or incorporate him into the gameplan, THEN we can start talking about how much Bledsoe held back this offense. 228956[/snapback] You make some good points, and I agree that the line ought to have done a much better job run-blocking. As you say, upgrading the offensive line should be a major priority for this off-season. In addition, the Bills should upgrade the QB position by replacing Bledsoe with Warner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Typical TBD Guy Posted February 5, 2005 Share Posted February 5, 2005 I thought the oline giving good protection was supposed to take the pressure off of the QB 229082[/snapback] There was a group of linemen on the 2001 Patriots roster who, at one point, were thought to be not good enough to protect their QB... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Like I said, when the Bills can field an O-line that doesn't put Willis in the top-3 in rushes for losses, when they can find a reliable 3rd WR, and when they can get a decent TE and/or incorporate him into the gameplan, THEN we can start talking about how much Bledsoe held back this offense. 228956[/snapback] See...Here's the problem with those who want to make excuses for DB...You have to go back and make 5 years worth of excuses because that's how long he's been putting up VERY similar numbers. Add that to the fact the Guy just flat out choked in some of the bigger Games over that span, and no excuse is good enough anymore... A word of advise to Bledsoe Backers, and even Bledsoe apologists...Just let it go...I did so about a Year ago now, and it made things SO much easier! Just come to the conclusion DB will never be good enough, and the weight of the World will fall off your back...Be careful though, because you have to let go 100%...If not, DB may have one good Game, or throw a single beautiful Pass and you will think maybe...just maybe...Don't do it! You'll only be let down in the long run.... Just let it go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarthur31 Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 Not the ONLY problem, just the BIGGEST one. 229007[/snapback] Where were you for the first four games of the season?? I listened to all games on the radio and read alot on this board at the time too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BB2004 Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 This off-season I suspect the Bills have upgrading the OL as one of if not the top job. If Bledsoe agrees to a paycut and with Moulds commiting to restructure, if both happen it will be quite possible to team this with our substantial cap room to not only make a run at one of the top LTs who may well be available (Jones, Pace or Tra Thomas) but still have cap room to get one of the many LG candidates who apparently will be gettable in FA or the draft. I however, have been cautioning the folks I know who care about this issue to not be shocked if the Bills decide that the OL can be upgarded by JMac leading the way to a similar level of OL improvement in'05 that he achieved with the same personnel we had in '04. Yes, Virginia, the Bills may well decide that they can both upgrade the OL and do so with the personel we already have despite many fans screaming if Tucker is still the LG. I think a key point we will be able to see if whether the Bills in fact agree to resign Jennings after the 3/2 FA period begins. If, as I suspect the market is not going to produce a deal in the top 10 OL cap hits for Jennings it may well be the best deal he can get to resign with the Bills. Again, its impossible to tell for sure because the market will not be set until we find out whether Jones is franchised again and whether Pace and/or Thomas get tagged. However, at this point I thinl Seattle won't tag Jones because they need to deal with Alexander and Hasselback and Philly will look to tag Simon rather than Thomas so the Jennings will not be the first choice among the few teams that have cap room, When one looks at the many teams that have committed long-term big bucks to LTs (8 of the top 10 OL cap hits are LTs), look at the fairly pedestrian players like Clifton and Pettitgout who are LTs with long-term big contracts at LT, and look at the the teams who have LT needs but no cap room because of other big contracts (AT has devoted cap room to player like Vick and Peerless and will be cutting players to simply make the cap and not offering big contracts) it will not be shocking if the best deal Jennings can get is as little as $3 million annually. Whikle this "poor" contract does not compare to the money the market has given to previous LTs, it certainly will be a bigger paycheck than Jennings has ever gotten so perhaps it works. What seems more likely to me is that the Bills will (maybe already have) offer him around a $5 million cap hit. If he signs for this much, it actually begins to put a premium on the Bills maintaining continuity as well as constraining how much they can devote to the OL (MW's cap hit already goes up to a bit over $5 million next year. When you combine that with a $5 mil JJ hit, it hard for me to see the Bills wanting to oer being able to devoted more than 1/8 of their total cap to 3 players in the OL and I doubt we shop beyonfd existing salaries for an LG. If JJ resigns the question becomes whether JMac feels he can get additional improvement out of Tucker and the building of chemistry with JJ, or alternately whether he feels the huge jump Smith took in moving from the Ravens PS to being a starter for the Bills can be replicated for Smih in his second year with the Bills. Neither alternative is a definite, but actually either is a possibility. My guess right now is that we tesign JJ for less than top 10 OL money and when we do we will rely on JMac to upgrade the OL by working with Tucker or Smith. I'll be more excited if we get some new blood but can easily see how this may not happen. 228674[/snapback] That would be best possible scenerio if Bledsoe and Moulds were willing to take pay cuts. I would go after Orlando Pace first. He's awesome. Jones is being highly taughted by the Chicago Bears, and they need a lot of help on the OL as well. If not those two, Jennings is good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadBuffaloDisease Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 See...Here's the problem with those who want to make excuses for DB...You have to go back and make 5 years worth of excuses because that's how long he's been putting up VERY similar numbers. Add that to the fact the Guy just flat out choked in some of the bigger Games over that span, and no excuse is good enough anymore... A word of advise to Bledsoe Backers, and even Bledsoe apologists...Just let it go...I did so about a Year ago now, and it made things SO much easier! Just come to the conclusion DB will never be good enough, and the weight of the World will fall off your back...Be careful though, because you have to let go 100%...If not, DB may have one good Game, or throw a single beautiful Pass and you will think maybe...just maybe...Don't do it! You'll only be let down in the long run.... Just let it go... To me it doesn't matter WHO is the QB. The problems with the O-line would still be the same. And as my point is that talking about how a mobile QB like JP will magically make the line run-block better, or make the WR's catch balls better, or TE's play better, is sheer fantasy. So be it Drew or JP, the Bills need a better O-line, TE, and 3rd WR, in that order. If Losman pans out, great. If not and without upgrades on the offense at the other positions, it's going to be a long season if Willis keeps running for negative yardage a lot and JP is forced to scramble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fake-Fat Sunny Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 See...Here's the problem with those who want to make excuses for DB...You have to go back and make 5 years worth of excuses because that's how long he's been putting up VERY similar numbers. 229431[/snapback] I hope TD's efforts work out and Bledsoe agrees to take back-up money in exchange for M and the braintrust really givng and JP a fair competition on the field for the starters job. If JP proves worthy on the field of being the starter, i would take Drew producing and acting exactly as he did in 2001 when he lost the starter's job to a better QB (Brady) in a hot second. I care little about his statistical numbers in this case because in 2001 Bledsoe did a great job in my book by: 1. According to Brady and all reports I have heard he worked hard and well with Brady while recovering from his collapsed lung to help the young QB learn and run the offense. This is a totally different situation since in '01 Bledsoe was made a mentor by injury and now it would be by design. However, i hope he proves to be as much of a teamer for us as he was for the Pats. 2, He did answer the bell and play QB successfully in the majority of a must-win game in the AFC championship when Brady went down to injury. The complaints of many posters (some of whose football opinions such as Simon I have really grown to respect over the years) really strike me as little more than swill. Regardless of folks complaints about what his QB rating from this games stats would have been, regardless of the "almost" fictitious INTs they whine that he almost threw in that game, regardless of their style-point complaints about his play in that he game he threw the game winning TD and played QB in the majority of a must win game. 3. Unlike most NFL athletes who are overpaid spoiled brats in my opinion he simply shut his mouth when BB correctly name Brady the starter in the SB game and proved himself to be a team player by his actions. Quite frankly I don't think any player that played an essential role in an SB run 4 years ago needs to offer any apology whatsoever for his play over the last 5 years. Add to that I think he deserved his Pro Bowl selection with his on-field play for the Bills in 2002 (if you disagree then please name the QB you think deserved ti=o go to Hawaii instead of Bledsoe) and the Comeback Player of the year accolades he earned that year. Drew certainly sucked as a QB for the Bills in the 2003 season and if i were TD I would not have resigned him and extended his contract last year (and said so repetivitely on TSW) but as bad as Bledsoe played the only thing which is worse is the convenient memories of those who claim that his production in the last 5 years was a total disaster. He sucked completely in 2003 and merely "improved" to being inadequate in 2004 as the winning streak results does not eradicate at all the bummer of missing the playoffs. However, its the rare QB who plays an essential role in an SB winning season and he should be proud of the work he did which was pivotal to improving the Bills from 3-13 to 8-8 in 2002 (even if BB laid out a textbook on how to beat him and Kevin Killdrive stupidly refused to change how he played as Clements did this past year and by the end of the season almost everybody knew how to stop him. Admitting the reality that Bledsoe does some things well is different than claiming he does everything well. He has some very exploitable weaknesses but also some strengths when used properly can provide some value to a team, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 >>>>>hope TD's efforts work out and Bledsoe agrees to take back-up money in exchange for M and the braintrust really givng and JP a fair competition on the field for the starters job. If JP proves worthy on the field of being the starter, i would take Drew producing and acting exactly as he did in 2001 when he lost the starter's job to a better QB (Brady) in a hot second.<<<< FFS, I agree that the above would be a best case scenario for the Bills. If they go with JP, there is always the chance that someone might accidently lean on him in the huddle, and thus place him in traction for another month or so. Drew would be familiar with the system, and able to heal while JP heals his weary bones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 To me it doesn't matter WHO is the QB. The problems with the O-line would still be the same. And as my point is that talking about how a mobile QB like JP will magically make the line run-block better, or make the WR's catch balls better, or TE's play better, is sheer fantasy. So be it Drew or JP, the Bills need a better O-line, TE, and 3rd WR, in that order. If Losman pans out, great. If not and without upgrades on the offense at the other positions, it's going to be a long season if Willis keeps running for negative yardage a lot and JP is forced to scramble. 229499[/snapback] I agree the Bills need to Upgrade the Line, heck...if you're not getting better, you're getting worse...But what's up with the "Willis running for negative Yards stuff??" Willis seemed to do just fine behind an admittedly average O-Line that was peppered with injuries throughout the Year...Personally I don't think this Line is anywhere near as bad as it was in past Years, and a lot of that is due to the Coaching they are absorbing now...I think this Line will be even better in 2005 because they will slightly Upgrade the Talent overall, and the Players who return will be a Year better Coached-Up... I'm not saying that JP will be the answer because truthfully I have absolutely no idea. But one thing I know for certain is the fact that the Bills can use the Upgrade at the QB Position more than any other. Simply put, throw a McNabb, Culpepper, Manning, Brady, or any other Top QB in the League on that Offense and you would see a significant Offensive improvement guaranteed...period... Now I fully understand the Bills don't have a Top NFL QB, and they likely won't in 2005...But regardless of the obvious improvements necessary on Offense, why in the World would the Team return with Bledsoe when you know beyond a shadow of a doubt what he can and cannot do...If anyone thinks TD and TM do not understand the Bills will NEVER be the Patsies equal in Division with Bledsoe at QB, you're just kidding yourself...I'm sorry... I'll never say the Bills do not need to improve on the O-Line, cause that's a given...But there is no doubt that the way this Team can improve most significantly is to upgrade the QB Position. There are no guarantees with JP, but it's well worth the gamble because if it works out, the move will easily have the greatest net gain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOKBILLS Posted February 6, 2005 Share Posted February 6, 2005 I hope TD's efforts work out and Bledsoe agrees to take back-up money in exchange for M and the braintrust really givng and JP a fair competition on the field for the starters job. If JP proves worthy on the field of being the starter, i would take Drew producing and acting exactly as he did in 2001 when he lost the starter's job to a better QB (Brady) in a hot second. I care little about his statistical numbers in this case because in 2001 Bledsoe did a great job in my book by: 1. According to Brady and all reports I have heard he worked hard and well with Brady while recovering from his collapsed lung to help the young QB learn and run the offense. This is a totally different situation since in '01 Bledsoe was made a mentor by injury and now it would be by design. However, i hope he proves to be as much of a teamer for us as he was for the Pats. 2, He did answer the bell and play QB successfully in the majority of a must-win game in the AFC championship when Brady went down to injury. The complaints of many posters (some of whose football opinions such as Simon I have really grown to respect over the years) really strike me as little more than swill. Regardless of folks complaints about what his QB rating from this games stats would have been, regardless of the "almost" fictitious INTs they whine that he almost threw in that game, regardless of their style-point complaints about his play in that he game he threw the game winning TD and played QB in the majority of a must win game. 3. Unlike most NFL athletes who are overpaid spoiled brats in my opinion he simply shut his mouth when BB correctly name Brady the starter in the SB game and proved himself to be a team player by his actions. Quite frankly I don't think any player that played an essential role in an SB run 4 years ago needs to offer any apology whatsoever for his play over the last 5 years. Add to that I think he deserved his Pro Bowl selection with his on-field play for the Bills in 2002 (if you disagree then please name the QB you think deserved ti=o go to Hawaii instead of Bledsoe) and the Comeback Player of the year accolades he earned that year. Drew certainly sucked as a QB for the Bills in the 2003 season and if i were TD I would not have resigned him and extended his contract last year (and said so repetivitely on TSW) but as bad as Bledsoe played the only thing which is worse is the convenient memories of those who claim that his production in the last 5 years was a total disaster. He sucked completely in 2003 and merely "improved" to being inadequate in 2004 as the winning streak results does not eradicate at all the bummer of missing the playoffs. However, its the rare QB who plays an essential role in an SB winning season and he should be proud of the work he did which was pivotal to improving the Bills from 3-13 to 8-8 in 2002 (even if BB laid out a textbook on how to beat him and Kevin Killdrive stupidly refused to change how he played as Clements did this past year and by the end of the season almost everybody knew how to stop him. Admitting the reality that Bledsoe does some things well is different than claiming he does everything well. He has some very exploitable weaknesses but also some strengths when used properly can provide some value to a team, 229560[/snapback] Acceptance of mediocrity at the QB Position will land the Bills exactly where the have been since DB arrived....Not good enough...period, end of story... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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