_BiB_

Hmmm, me thinks I see a new tactic forming here.....

et faisons?

They're at kerry.com trying to find something original to say.

A respectable service record? I'm not painting with a broad brush here. Your attempt to, as you guys do-veer away from the subject is noted. I'm talking about a specific point with a specific individual. Max blew himself up with his own hand grenade, but it was an accident and I think his service was honorable.

Wild, isn't it?

Don't forget the Hurricane episode. Has to be near the coast, and Plowman leads me to believe it must be to the north.

It ends up being a command policy in theater, or maybe within the individual services in theater. The only medals I've ever heard it applied to are the Congressional and the PH. It usually takes so long to get the MOH approved that the individual will probably be out of it by the time it's awarded anyway. A guy I knew by the name of Bob Patterson won one as a SP4 in Viet Nam with the Cav. We served together in Korea in 1975. Matter of fact, flew over on the same plane. As I recall, he didn't actually get the award until more than a year after being recommended/nominated.

I know next to nothing on finance, so I pre-qualify my uninformed opinion. I had thought this a great idea before-then backed up. Wouldn't a strictly consumption tax make it a crap shoot as to how much money came in every year? The government at least can make projections based on each years take. And for those with the means, especially in border states, why not go to Canada or Mexico for your bigger "consumptions?"

Sort of fits my theme, doesn't it? Won't matter to the lemmings. His first mission? No, no agenda here...

LGB. I still can't imagine him being an adult. He posted that info sometime back in one of his carefully thought out and manifestly well articulated "I hate Bush" threads.

Are you refering to the unarmed teenager who owns two businesses and hates the 80,000 dollar tax rebate he received?

I only use those on Ed anymore. This calls for a telephone pole across the bridge of the nose. The more I read here, the more I'm considering Costa Rica.

My head hurts.

Jumping in late here. We hunting squirrels now? Let me get my telephone pole.

As ex-Army, I think I can safely say it took them that long to write and staff the plan.

You miss my point. Many people came home and denounced the war...after they did their 12-13 months. I would have much less difficulty with this had Kerry done so. He didn't leave on a stretcher-and I wouldn't want him or anyone else to-but we're talking about a focus and attitude. JK could have easily remained with his unit-yet chose to take the first available out. As the circumstances surrounding at least one of his PH's are suspect, there is every chance that they were manipulated to do so. There's every chance that they weren't. But the question is certainly there. Had he remained somewhat low key and quiet about it, I wouldn't take issue. But this fella knows damn well he bailed on his oath and obligations back then, and wants to stand up now and scream his duty from the rooftops. Now, we are taking this guy and putting him in a position to lead not a dozen - but millions. And no one is questioning this. I knew after watching Clinton in action that the idea of honor was gone from our government. This is what it gives us. At least Gore didn't make his service a centerpiece.

Yes. Not Kerry, personally, just the rules. S'ok, that will never make a soundbite, as I've already stated this would have made him a political martyr at the time. Not a good move given the times. But being under the cloth and being political are widely separated, and for good reason. Not political, honest response. If you "belong" to the military, you are prohibited from taking sides in many circumstances. Unless you are a total idiot, you know why. Vote how you want, but it is expressly illegal to voice a view under uniform. I'm sorry, throwing your medals over the fence qualifies. One is considered on duty, as the country is at war, but doing things "detrimental to good order and discipline." Like I said, whatever. I understand and have met honor. He's not.

There's always time... Anyway, said more than I should. It bothers me. I've said my piece.

No, you have to be kidding me. How much shrapnel do you have in YOUR leg? I work with a guy I take smoke breaks with. Have to walk slow as we go down the hall to the door. It bothers him. I haven't personally met too many people here, maybe DC Tom can attest to the scars I have on my forehead. He didn't get to see the ones on my hip. Do what you are going to do. Your right, as is mine to not like what I'm seeing.

Fabrication and lies? Go read my post. Doesn't matter what's fabrication and lies. Why are we ignoring what FACTS are there? and what they mean? I suppose it's because the idea of thought is lost on this country. Anyone want to blame anyone for anything, blame TV and the internet. They have absolved us of the requirement to think. I think this truly sad.

Excellent point in the last sentence. I received a memo today reminding everyone of just what they can and can not do, under the law, in terms of politics this election season. actually, very restrictive. Mr. Kerrycould have been prosecuted for his activities, but knew well that the DoD was not going to make him into a martyr.

And. BRH-what I wrote has NOTHING to do with Bush. At best, you just don't understand what I'm trying to say-and why I say it. At worst, you do and it doesn't matter. Why is it such a stretch to think there was a manipulative agenda here? People take risks sometimes to attain certain "goals". The truth of the matter is, although a lot of people are killed or wounded in combat, most aren't. I know a guy who actually won the Medal of Honor and never got so much a a scratch. At least not one he got a purple heart for.

Somehow I knew this could be turned into "But Bush..." You know, even taking the darkest interpretations who's right here? Bush. At least he sat home sniffing coke and puking up his Jack Daniels. He didn't get himself into the middle of something and then toss it when it was expedient to do so and not of his liking. And the post "four months" period definitely would lead at least some to consider an agenda for the whole thing. everyone is so caught up in the fervor that no one is actually asking the right questions. I've said before, that this could and should be a non-issue, from either side. It certainly wasn't important when Clinton (or Gore, who didn't finish his tour as a REPORTER) ran. It's important to you now. I haven't made it an issue. Mr. Kerry did when he "reported for duty" at the DNC. And, I've seen that letter. They sure had a way with words back then, didn't they? I (flame me if you like) understand duty and honor. I've seen it. I've tried to live by it. I understand it. And loyalty both to and from the people under my watch. I wasn't there, so I can never truly know. But from 30 years of being around this stevestojan- I know what's not right.

I posted the same thought, more or less in a few places-but it gets lost. Have any of you trying to convince the others that Kerry is this magnificant war hero thought about this? This is something that truly bothers me about Kerry's character. I imagine that many of you have not worn the uniform, let alone have been shot at in one. It's just my experience, maybe some of you know different-that anyone fitting the scenario described above would be considered at best, a slacker and at worst, a coward. This could maybe be expected of a private draftee, but not of an officer who swore an oath and supposedly lives by the principle of "Know your men and always look out for their welfare". He not only abandoned his command, he returned home and assaulted the honor and dignity of those he abandoned. I am reminded of a story I heard on NPR, of all places of a young Army Sergeant recently seriously wounded in Iraq. He was brought back to Walter Reed, received treatment and therapy and was being interviewed from-guess where? Iraq. As soon as he were able he returned to his unit because (paraphrasing, I don't recall the exact words) "This is my unit, these are my buddies-and I don't feel right sitting there in the states while they continue the fight. We went there together, and we'll come home together". This from a 20 something junior NCO. An infantry team leader. That, my friends is the band of brothers. That is reporting for duty. Not this charade being argued about day after day after day. Will you please, at least consider this? I don't know how many of you out there have-but I've been in these types of situations and have witnessed myself the quiet courage that doesn't make the headlines, never gets heard about at all. People who did their jobs, looked out for their fellow soldiers, sometimes paying a price-but for the most part doing it in quiet dignity. It would never have occurred to these men in a thousand years to come home and throw their medals, go on TV and talk about the atrocities their brothers committed...it just wouldn't happen. End of rant. End of plea. I just ask that you at least consider this.

I didn't have the heart...fish in a barrel.