Milanos Milano

Jalen Wayne actually had a good senior bowl, good chance he can make our PS.

Iosivas practiced against the same type of talent that is found in the SEC at the Senior Bowl. Just because he had limited snaps in the senior bowl, doesn’t mean he wasn’t capable to separating against SEC talent in games. That’s what the practices are for, to determine if someone can compete against that kind of talent. We will never know what Iosivas production would have been like if he was playing on Florida instead of Shorter. It’s basically why things like the Senior Bowl and Shrine games exist, to test these theoretical matchups the best they can. All I know is that Shorter played on a team with a 1st round QB and still had garbage stats. That’s not a ringing endorsement.

Shorter was also 0 Rec 0 yards in the Shrine Bowl, so yeah.

It’s more than just the game. It’s the practices as well. 1A players are almost almost going to get the nod over 1B players. You don’t even know how many snaps he was on the field for, or his matchups while he was on the field.

I never said to not draft him at all, but drafting someone in the 1st that didn’t participate at the combine due to an injury is fairly risky. Even Gronkowski participated in the combine despite his back problems.

We will never know because Iosivas never had a chance to play against a SEC team. What we do know is he played in the Senior bowl practices, and still separated enough against high end talent to get him drafted this year to a very good Cincinnati team.

So he was injured and couldn’t participate at the combine, but we are willing to take a player in the 1st round that was hurt enough to not participate?

Well what I mean is he was taken in the 1st round, so clearly someone thinks he has all pro potential. So if Shorter can’t separate enough against SEC secondaries with a 1st round talent QB, what makes you think he will be able to separate enough against NFL secondaries with an elite QB? Well he never went to the combine to prove that did he? People that skip the combine don’t get the benefit of the doubt.

LOL I’m just simply posting 40 times. If there is one thing I’ve learned over the years, is that there really isn’t much of a difference between talented players with respect to their peers. Most talented players separate against secondaries along the same rates and space, the differences boil down to their respective QBs and coaching schemes. There really isn’t much of a difference between Mayer and Kincaid receiving wise, no matter what the scouts say. I will say that Kincaid struggled against a non ranked Florida, which is concerning. The fact that Shorter played with a 1st round QB and still couldn’t put up solid production is concerning.

It’s a combination of pure talent evaluation and production. Iosivas was separating on film more than Shorter was. Shorter also was playing with an all pro QB selected in the 1st round, and still couldn’t separate enough for his all pro QB to find him. That’s extremely concerning.

Hayden Hurst runs a 4.68 , is 6’4” 250lbs. Selected 1st round 25th overall. Put up 600 yards in the SEC, which is better than doing it in the Pac12. There really isn’t much of a difference between Hurst and Kincaid.

LOL it’s good he didn’t perform at the NFL combine or he’d be lucky to go in the first round. He likely would have struggled against the sled and bench press. Right now scouts are basically living off the USC game, which is way to emotional. At this point Kincaid is strictly a 4.7 big slot receiver which I dunno how well that is going to translate against NFL talent. Kincaid struggled against Florida to get separation.

Kelce ran a 4.6 , Gronkowski ran a 4.7 . Kelce is 6’5 250lbs and Gronkowski was 6’6” 265lbs. Just for some context. Dawson Knox 6’4” 254lbs. Kincaid 4.7 6’4” 240lbs Mayer 4.7 6’4” 265lbs

Dawson Knox also ran a 4.59 at the combine, so eventhough his stats were marginal in college and he played a way different role for his team, the potential was obviously there. So I know stats don’t tell the whole story, but Knox is a bit of a misnomer because of his teams poor utilization of his talents.

Fun fact looking at the Mayer vs Kincaid things. Mayer often time had a higher % of the rec pie vs the rest of the WRs on their team than Kincaid, AND with ND running the ball more often. That tells me Mayer would have had even better results vs Kincaid had his OC game planned differently. Mayer was often featured more often, because he was clearly the best receiving threat on the team, whereas Kincaid wasn’t featured as much despite being touted as the better WR option. Mind you, they both run a 4.7

I do not know why people keep saying this. They both have similar yardage and TDs numbers. The major difference is Mayer can block really well. They both run a 4.7 , so it’s not like he can’t get down the field as good as Kincaid.

When I scout, I want to see consistency, I want to see how well they do against top ranked teams and SEC schools. I want to see how they do against players that are getting drafted or projected to get drafted in the coming years. I also want to see the % of targets they are commanding per game and how talented their QB/WR/RBs are relative to their respective peers. Obviously watching how one separates is important, if they are getting consistently open, but are having low targets, that’s a QB problem. Honestly it would be really nice if someone developed an algorithm to determine how much exact space they were generating per route ran vs opponent strength. I would have to go back and watch the entirety of the game, I didn’t particularly watch that game. I’m not a real scout that gets paid, I can’t dedicate every single second of my time to doing major analytical projects. Although I feel I would pretty good at it if I was awarded an opportunity for such time dedication.

Let me start a better statistical breakdown, and maybe I will make a thread about it. But let’s just take one example. Utah played Florida (at the time a non ranked SEC school), they lost 29-26, he had only 2 receptions for 29 yards. He had 2 receptions of of 22 thrown for approx 10% of the throws. His team ran 39 times. 3 other receivers on the team had more receptions than he did. I’m using SEC as the gold standard for now. Was he getting open and his QB couldn’t find him, or was he struggling against SEC level talent and just couldn’t get targeted because he wasn’t open?

Kincaid had only 5 games with 5+ rec. Where Mayer had 8 games with 5+ rec. Kincaids 5 games came against SUU, USC, WSU, Oregon, and Colorado Mayers 8 games came against USC, BC, UNLV, Stanford, BYU, UNC, Marshall, Ohio State

Maybe they did, I’m not exactly sure how much time analysis they dedicate to each and every prospect they filter. Obviously they can’t go to every game or watch every single snap of every single prospect they put grades on. There are quite a few non productive games that Kincaid had against okish teams that are a little concerning. You usually want to see a 1st round talent have fairly consistent games. Mayer had more 60yrd+ games then Kincaid, against slightly better teams. There were many times Kincaid wasn’t even top 2 on the team in receiving games, where Mayer had more, etc.

If this is true, then it’s pretty sad if pro scouts get sucked into individual games. When you talent evaluate, you have to take way more into consideration than just great performances at random times. That’s to emotional for analytical accuracy.

Just hopefully nobody traps our beaver

L?

Given McDermotts propensity for bringing in quality CBs, I have at least some hope for the 7th rounder.

First 2 picks were good. Outside of that left a lot to be desired. C+