BB@Shooter
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Posts posted by BB@Shooter
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The Wyoming AD office said that the Jets scouts spent the most time in Laramie during the season than anyone else by a large margin. So I though it was a smoke screen when all the analysts were saying the Jets wanted Mayfield. Then the Jets take Darnold over Allen. I wasn't sure where Allen should have gone. I just wanted him to go to a team where he wouldn't get killed and maybe get a chance to sit and learn.
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3 minutes ago, Justice said:
Too funny. I know this game and I haven’t pretended to know Wyoming’s offense better than you. Just because you watch them play a lot doesn’t mean you know anything at all about the game. Brady has worked with just about anything at WR over the years and has excelled. Why do you think that is? His WRs go elsewhere and don’t match the production they had in NE. Why? Because it’s a timing based offense. That offense doesn’t require world beaters at WR. That type of offense helps everyone look better. The QB and the WRs. And if the oline is as bad as you say it is then they should’ve went to a timing based offense, but they didn’t. Why is that? You keep talking about Allen’s targets, well what about his competition?! So stop it. Don’t pretend to assume you know me or my level of knowledge on the game. I eat, sleep and breath football. I got what’s app chats blowing up on phone 24/7 365!
And yet you have never seen them play in person once. But assume you know more than me. Laughable. You can crap football for all I care, but I will go with seeing him live 20 times over you watching him on your phone. You make me laugh comparing New Englands offense and Brady to Wyomings situation. What about Allens competition? I watched them also. Understand one thing, Wyoming and their OC did not build this offense around Allen. They plugged Allen into their offense. You have to understand Bohl shortens the game by running the ball, working field position and relying on the defense. So our offense was very conservative. Allens receivers in 2017 didn't finish routes, came up short on 1st down markers, stood around and watched while he scrambled for his life, ran basic routes, and dropped a lot of balls that were catchable. I don't care what the stats say about his dropped balls, they dropped more than the stats show because I saw it in person. I don't care what you saw or thought you saw on your phone. I know Allens stron points and weak points. And he is cleaning his game up a lot. Time will bear that out. So go join another state site, so you know the game even better.
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6 hours ago, Justice said:
Yes. I meant the coaches.
(Bolded)It’s funny you say that too. Timing patterns actually helps out weaker WRs. It helps them get open or at least open long enough to make the catch. The ball usually comes when the defender doesn’t expect it. Makes them harder to defend. This isn’t happening with Wyoming’s offense. He actually waits for them to get open. You know who else does that? Tyrod Taylor.
Like I said, I have seen tons more Wyoming football than you have dreamed about. If the D is in our backfield as soon as Allen drops back, when is he supposed to time these receivers? Another thing you don't get, you don't the simplicity of our routes. You have taken a very small sample to talk points to me who has actually seen Allen play in person 20 times.
You are trying to tell me what Wyoming does with their receivers after watching a few clips? Wyoming receivers hardly ever get open, so you don't not what you are jabbering about. If you had a clue about how jr. high our offense looked you would might begin to understand. Why do you think you know more about Wyoming and Allen than I do? You seem like a nice guy but you are out of your depth. He led his receivers in the Senior Bowl because they got open. I know you don't want to be wrong, but you are. Don't give up your day job bud.
10 minutes ago, Scorp83 said:By you starting your post off with this...totally destroyed your point. If you don't understand that they passed on Watson & Mahomes for Allen...then you've been asleep at the wheel for the past year buddy
They may have passed on them for a qb, but they weren't assured it would be Allen. That is the point.
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2 hours ago, John from Riverside said:
I dont know if he put anyone in check....I did like that he didnt give any material to anyone to fuel any fires.
People are gonna see what they wanna see.
I saw someone annoyed that he was being bothered......but didnt take the cheese and start having terminal oral diareah of the mouth.
I was watching it and thinking the board would think Allen was a prick. I have never seen him anything but cordial and respectful to anyone and everyone. Glad he recognized scum for what it is. He might do OK off the farm and out of Wyoming after all.
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4 hours ago, Madd Charlie said:
Allen was not my first choice but digging into his history on and off the field now has me pretty pumped. I think he has the swagger of a star in the NFL. He put TMZ in check without breaking a sweat. I'm in, im ready to give this project my full support.
http://www.tmz.com/2018/05/17/josh-allen-jalen-ramsey-trash-talk/
TMZ comes off as so sleazy. I wouldn't give them the time of day. They would rather skewer you for a story as not.
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What kills me as everyone thinks they know who will be a franchise qb. Too many variables to get too deep into it. I first want Allen to play solid, manage the game, and do what the staff asks of him. I don't think they would have traded Tyrod if they didn't think they could do better. So why force so much down Allens throat, how about a game at a time, and then a season at a time. Only the truly greats start out on fire, and not even then at times. I just want Allen to have a solid year. It is not like he is taking over the Eagles or Patriots. Or that the Bills have been a juggernaut in quite some time. Let the two grow together.
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11 hours ago, Justice said:
Mahomes and Watson obviously weren’t in this draft but we did have a shot at both last year and we let them go. In return we got Tre and Tremaine and those two will play a part in whether it was a wise move or not, but I think we can all agree QB trumps all.
Great stats in college doesn’t mean you’ll be great in the pros, but since when have we ever seen a QB with bad numbers, and I mean really bad, improve in the pros? Honest question. I racked my head trying to find that answer and couldn’t.
I haven’t visited this site in a very long time. I spend whatever time I do spend on PPP, but that doesn’t mean I haven’t spent time debating all these QBs with my friends for days on end. I’ve heard it all. The things I haven’t heard from anyone is he’s great at timing and anticipation. Two traits I cherish in a QB.
I hope you’re right. I really do. I see what the Bills like in JA too. They’re certainly shooting for the stars and for that I commend them. When he passes on the run he looks like Aaron Rodgers. He shows glimpses of greatness. We need to make sure it’s consistent.
There is not one qb that doesn't have a lot of questions coming into the league. As far as timing and anticipation, how can you get that if your receivers can't get seperation? Try and force that in and the interceptions start piling up. Plus you have to understand the routes they ran, how the receivers always cut their routes short, or didn't finish their routes. And whenever Allen got flushed out, his receivers stood and watched. Didn't come back to the ball or move to open space. Is Allen supposed to do it all? I have seen him play 20 games in person, so I would know these things. You are a very casual observer, soaking in and seeing what you want to see.
Just because you and your buddies discussed him, I doubt you had half the info at best. When you say "we" need to make sure it's consistent, do you mean the coaches I would hope? Allens OC did not build anything around Allen and his arm. He forced Allen into an outdated, boring, run first, predictable offense. Any decent OC would have seen that arm and his scrambling and torched people. Not hold his qb back. And again, the front office did not pass on a qb to get Allen from the previous year. If somebody wouldn't have put out a bull **** report on him being racist, he probably wouldn't have been around at that pick. No one knows that either. So there are no facts here other than Allen is a Bill.
10 minutes ago, Justice said:It’s a well known fact Josh doesn’t throw with anticipation. I’m not gonna go digging for videos to prove it either. I’ve seen enough highlights to know that. Just watch for yourself. When he gets to the top of his dropback he doesn’t release. He watches and waits and then pulls the trigger.
As for the bolded part I seen two out patterns Allen missed on in the highlight reel you provided. Out patterns are passes that are thrown before the WR comes out of his break.
Like I said, I saw 20 games in person, and the rest on tv. And you know more than me just from watching a clip? Too funny.
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1 hour ago, Justice said:
I rarely post here and I’m not gonna go all JP Losman on Josh Allen, but I do want to go on record here before these guys careers start to unfold.
Throughout the process I ranked my favorite QB prospects as such:
1. Mayfield
2. Darnold
3. Rosen
4. Jackson
5. Rudolph
6. Allen
As evidenced by these rankings I hated the pick. I still do, even though like most fans I did my best to watch more game film and especially his offseason work where he seemed to excel most. I’m trying to be hopeful and optimistic, but I can’t ignore my initial thoughts on the kid.
JP Losman had accuracy issues and I was hard on him from the start for that very reason. To me accuracy should be the last issue a young QB prospect should have. Especially a first rounder. I’d be shocked if Allen can overcome those issues.
Many ppl bring up the accuracy percentage issue, but ignore the yards he had last year. 1800. I mean that is the most alarming statistic if you ask me.
There are other red flags as well. Inner clock seems to be off, escapes the pocket too early and he couldn’t put up great stats against weaker competition.
And yes I’ve heard all the excuses. He had a weak supporting cast. His line stunk. He was asked to throw the ball downfield more than the others (not true). His WRs dropped balls. Well when I compared him to the rest of the QBs on my list his drops were actually less than those others.
Personally I prefer the more cerebral type QBs that don’t have the cannon and athleticism to rely on. The Brady, Manning and Montana types. They win more SBs than the Favre, Rodgers, Kelly, Elway, Big Ben and Marino types. 11-6 in rings to be exact and that’s only 3 QBs vs six.
I hope I’m wrong. I’m cheering for the kid. I really am. Hopefully his issues were related to his footwork and he cleaned it up, but I have my reservations. We passed up Mahomes, Watson and Rosen for him and also paid two second round picks for him. He has a lot to live up to. I hope I can eat my words someday soon.
How did the Bills pass on Mahomes and Watson for Allen? Allen wasn't even in the mix. And if you have not read everything I or a few others put out on Allen, then you will never understand or refuse to understand why his numbers are what they are. I get tired of repeating the same old thing to every Lucy Lou who comes on here late and repeats all the same old crap that has been put to bed. You obviously don't know anything about the team or offense he was in. Or about his OC, or you wouldn't babble about the same old stuff.
I think you are just one more guy who is negative about him who will be proven wrong. If you want to know the real story on him then follow closely on some of these threads. I and some others have laid out some pretty defining points. At least read them before closing your mind to the possibility that you could be wrong. I would have loved to see Allen playing for that Oklahoma team. They would have been the national champions if they had him. Mayfield disappared in the 2nd half of the Georgia game. But no one brings that up. How about Darnold in his last game? Rosen? Oh , that's right, he didn't play in his bowl game. What did Allen do in 1 quarter? 3 TD's in the 1st quarter. And then the OC did what he always does to Allen, takes the air out of the ball. Has him hand it off on 1st and 2nd down and depending on where the ball is at on 3rd down, either has Allen run it for short yardage. Or pass on 3rd and long. The offense was very predictable to say the least. And his line sucked and Allen was the best back on the team by far. You don't know the situation he was in, but you think you do. Good luck with that. Thank you for being kind in your post. It was a nice read even if it was wrong.
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3 hours ago, eball said:
It's hilarious how folks are talking about a "processing weakness" and throwing "interceptable balls" when Allen knew that each week he was solely responsible for keeping them in the game.
The problem will be if he fails to recognize that there is talent around him in the NFL so he doesn't need to take as many risks. I, for one, believe he's smart enough to understand that.
Just look at the bowl game and the Senior Bowl. In the Senior Bowl Allen used all of his weapons including his feet and arm. He played like a man among boys in the 2nd half. One thing I always hated about his OC was he never let Allen start off the game with some easy passes to get him some confidence. You hear announcers on TV all the time saying the OC should throw in a few dump passes or easy routes for the qb to get in a groove. As a former qb and pitcher, I agree totally. You see it needing to be done at every level.
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8 minutes ago, Hapless Bills Fan said:
I think all 5 of those guys in front of Allen last year deserve to be drafted .... preferably by New England
2 freshmen,two sophomores , 1 senior . And the bad part is the year before it was 2 freshman, 2 sophomores, and 1 senior. For some reason the starters always get replaced the next year. Cummings was the lone senior this year and in the Texan's rookie camp as a UFA. He was good sized, but slow and never did pan out. I think he was a 4 year starter. Hopefully they start getting some talent recruited. They are really working the Illinois, Minnesota type areas where the big farm kids are. I wonder if the OC, line coach, and receivers coach are FBS material. I know the OC coach isn't for good reason. He does somehow get to work with good quarterbacks.
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13 hours ago, Fadingpain said:
Actually, completion % and games played in college are the only mathematically demonstrably meaningful statistics there are in terms of assessing whether a college QB will be successful in the NFL.
Did you say that with a straight face??
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20 hours ago, PIZ said:
I'm kind of shocked how bad his OL was. Hope Buffalo can come up with something better.
In most years his OC puts out one of the worst offenses in FBS football. The system they run is predicated on strong line play, much like the great Nebraska teams used under Dr. Tom. To give Bohl credit, he is slowly turning the program around. Their defense this next year should produce 6 draft picks or better in the next two years. Their defensive line is big, quick, and deep. They have some good edge rushers, a few linebackers, and db'' that could end up in camps. Now to find a running back that runs hard, and a qb to manage games and another 8 or more win season in the books after losing their best ever Pro qb.
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2 hours ago, TheTruthHurts said:
Not sure if he processes fast enough. Everything seems late. People blame it on other factors, but I don't like doing that.
Just curious as to where you are getting your info on Allen about him not processing the game fast enough? What makes you say everything seems late? If you knew anything about watching him in person you would know he couldnt lead his receivers, they couldn't get seperation. So he had to be damn accurate on ball placement or it would be an interception. In 2017 he was a lot more careful with the ball because he knew the team he had under him couldn't score much. So he had limited series too put points on the board. If you understood the dynamics of what coach Bohl runs his offense under, then maybe you could understand the restrictions put on Allen. Allen is better than he looks on video clips. You have to know and have a feel for what dynamics he was working with. Not just repeat something you heard or read. I have seen over 20 NFL quarterbacks play in person while they were in college.. So I feel I have a little understanding of what it might take to be an NFL qb, or at least a qualified opinion.
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9 minutes ago, Green Lightning said:
Lotta ifs.
What qb coming out doesn't have a lot of what if's? If they don't, they shoould.
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On 4/29/2018 at 4:33 PM, horned dogs said:
I'm torn on this, my belief is that Allen is going to look really good in training camp and preseason. It will be intoxicating watching him throw, making plays with his athleticism, and he just seems so charismatic. McBeane drafted him to be the leader and face of the franchise. Having said all that, any QB, especially one from a small school like Wyoming, would benefit from watching and learning for a time. It will be quite interesting to watch training camp develop for the QBs. I hope whatever they decide is in the best interest of his development, and I trust it will be.
I watched Andrew Dalton of TCU play against Wyoming a few times in college, and was mystified that he got drafted and is a starting qb in the NFL. At the time TCU, Utah, and BYU were in our conference with Boise State coming on board. So the competition was better than it is now. The coach of TCU was Patterson, and still is. They were known as a defensive team as Patterson ran simple schemes relying on a running game and a stout defense to win games. Much like Allen , Dalton was used as a qb that could run and then pass. For Allen, at least the 2017 team.
I never thought Dalton had what it took to play in the NFL, mostly based on the offense he ran ,and he wasn't required to throw passes that had much difficulty. The Mountain West was the old WAC , and it still put out some very good passing teams and quarterbacks through the years. It used to be shootouts every weekend with little defense being played. Before anyone says these two conferences in their time were no good, they usually had two top 25 teams in them most years.
I also got to see the Carr's out off Fresno State, Smith out of Utah, all the qb's out of BYU (Young, Wilson ,Nielson, Tatum, Gifford, McMahon, the Detmers, Beck, Hall, Bosco , Sarkisian and Walsh)and other good quarterbacks play over the years. I gagged a little in my mouth having to mention BYU quarterbacks, as we hate BYU.
What I am trying to say is I have seen enough quarterbacks play in person over the years that I can judge qb talent to a degree. See which ones who play in a system, and which ones had to be that good just to get noticed. Dalton never impressed. He had all the tools under his disposal that he should have gotten looked at. There are a lot of qb's that have passed through the NFL that never got a real chance because they were brought in as filler material. NFL teams had too much invested in the higher draft picks that they played a game of where they either passed around the known quarterbacks, or drafted new ones. Not until in recent years where defenses have gotten so fast and specialized, have quarterbacks gone down with such an alarming rate. So teams have to go deeper in their benches and find more no name stars or at least starters. The NFL used to have mostly only known names playing qb. Now it is a big mixture. Either I can't keep up with college players, or qb play has gotten to the point of those camps turning out all types and numbers of quarterbacks that just need a break to play.
Comparing Allen to Dalton and Smith coming out of college , Allen has skills neither one of those dreamed of having. And I can say that about most of the qb's I listed . Allen is not as refined as a lot of qb's, but he has that "it" factor. Allen didn't prep at camps since he was a kid, he played baseball, basketball football, and worked. So his footwork is not as clean, he is still learning as he goes. And he had one ****ty OC and offense to run at Wyoming. I would have loved to see Darnold, Rosen, and Mayfield try and survive playing at Wyoming. Rosen wouldn't have made it out of fall camp before being hurt, little alone 2 games into the season. And Vigen would have had all three of them handing the ball off on 1st and 2nd down and expect them to bail him out because he ran off tackle two times in a row and the other team knows our offense better than Wyoming does. Now you know why Allen doesn't have the same number these other guys do. Allen got screwed by his own OC, but still loves the guy. Allen in my mind is such a better qb than Dalton was at this point in their careers, that it would take a lot for Allen not to take the next step. Allen will fix things with the right coaching, and then watch out. How Allen looked in the first quarter of the bowl game this year is the real Allen. I would expect that guy to step up.
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2 hours ago, Fixxxer said:
What a moron. And Orlovsky can actually criticize anyone after that play? I think not. He didn't want to get hit, the big kitty.
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5 hours ago, Fadingpain said:
Don't confuse where he was rated with where he was predicted to go in the draft.
Ledyard himself, who had Allen "rated" as a 3rd round prospect, said in the same GR-55 segment that he predicted he would go in the top 10 for sure, or something like that.
His point being that NFL teams just can't hold off on a guy like Allen b/c they foolishly overvalue traits/talents and don't look at the whole picture of whether or not a QB prospect is likely to succeed in the NFL.
He is basically saying if you view Allen objectively, he is a 3rd round lottery ticket. If you want to predict how NFL teams will view him in the draft, he'll be picked in the top 10.
Most analysts had similar things to say about him.
Lots of Bills fans focus on the "tremendous upside" of Allen, but fail to remember that you must multiple that by the likelihood of success in hitting that upside, which is very low.
On aggregate, Allen is a traditional, lower round, high risk, likely to fail, gamble.
I think someone has a man crush on Ledyard. And please quit saying most analysts say that. Maycock , Mel Kuyper Jr. and Jeremiah had him in the ten top players if I remember correctly. I have never heard of Ledyard until today. Has he ever been on tv? R And just because you repeat that most analysts have said blah, blah, blah, doesn't make it true becauself you repeat it like a mantra. Find some quotes by some respectable analysts, and throw them out there. Most of us see you have one little link that isn't even very credible, and you are holding tight to it. And I have heard of Ledyard, but think he is a flake and don't waste my time reading anything he puts out. Kind of like B/R and USA today.
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2 hours ago, frostbitmic said:
Impressive tackle ... lower the head and shoulder and hope to hit something before falling flat on his face, much like a Stephon Gilmore attempted tackle.
I love how the RB went down 4 yards after contact which was 8 yards after getting a 1st down. If he was attempting a tackle on Allen like that, Ramsey would've been concussed.
If Allen hits him, he will definitely feel it. Allen doesn't back down . So what's next, criticizing Allen on the way he stretches? Ramsey and the media are so weak. Just like trying to make a big deal of Allen commenting on McCarron's girlfriend when Allen was 16. Like McCarron would worry about that. Bleacher Report gets worse by the day. I do believe B/R put that out.
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1 hour ago, Wayne Arnold said:
Very good defense. Craig Bohl is a good defensive-minded head coach and you're lucky to have him. The offense that's currently run, however, is terribly outdated and his OC Vigen is likely way in over his head.
Not likely in over his head, he is. Look at where his offense ranks most every year, at the bottom. Bohls philosophy is get a lead, run the ball. Run clock. Shorten the game. The bad part is that Vigen hasn't figured out how to move the chains other than punting. Vigen is not a D1 OC.
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On 5/3/2018 at 3:56 PM, Stank_Nasty said:
agree to disagree I guess.... I've watched him play plenty and saw a middling qb that could make some timely clutch throws on occasion but usually didn't win if he didn't have his defense clicking on all cylinders.
i'm not big on that going forward if that's what we are getting.
I saw Allen play in person at least 20 times. The offense they ran was a run first offense. He won 8 games two years in a row. That doesn't happen at Wyoming very often. I can tell you have not actually watched Allen as much as you say, so excuse me for believing you don't know as much as you would like to assume.
When I tell you Allen was our best back, trust me. Our line was horrible as our backs were also. Our OC is one of the worst ones I have ever seen. He didn't even begin to try to build the offense around the talent of Allen. Instead he ran the ball on the first two downs and put Allen in 3rd and long most series. Then the opposing team would play an 8 man front against us and blitz the crap out of us. And our OC didn't even give Allen a way to make the defense pay for blitzing or overpaying the run game. We hardly ever ran pass paterns across the middle, and our fullback didn't get one carry until our bowl game.
Our receivers always ran their patterns short of the 1st down markers, quit on their routes, couldn't handle average throws, and could get no seperation. The reason Allen came back for his junior year is because of loyalty, and he knew he needed more experience. Allen is a winner. He was 8-3 in the games he played this year. Probably would have been 10-3 if he didn't get hurt. He could have set out our bowl game and didn't. He could have not thrown at the combine like Darnold, but didn't. He could have only played one series at the Senior Bowl like Mayfield, but he doesn't have anything to hide. In fact he wasn't happy with the way he played in the 1st half and told the coaching staff he wanted to play in the 2nd half. Where he then tore it up. So you obviously don't know Allen, and I highly doubt you saw more than a few highlight clips, and definitely the clips where they tried to say he wasn't worth a crap. Allen doesn't care about personal stats, he cares about winning. And he is a good character kid regardless. Whoever released those tweets on him held them back until the last minute. They should be thankful I don't know who they are because it was a chickenshit deal. Allen and Buffalo will be a good match. I just wished he had a year to sit and watch. I doubt it happens though.
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@YardsPerPass interview on WGR - why he’s talked himself into Josh Allen
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I only accused you of being a know it all who won't listen to someone who has a lot more info on the subject than you do. Now you can't even get who said what to you right. I never accused you whatever you are claiming above.
You are one of those types of guys that think they are never wrong. On this subject you are. You don't see me go off talking about anything else about the Bills because I am soaking it in, trying to learn about them before I give any input. Allen and Wyoming is what I know. You claim to know but aren't even close because you aren't willing to take the info myself and others have given you to work with. You would rather run with the mob mentality and read the negatives. There is plenty of negative out there on all the qb's if you want to look. I don't look for it because they aren't the qb of my newly adopted team. Spin it any way you want, I know more about Allen and his situation than you do by a long shot. Pick a different area and I am sure you can blow me out of the water. But not this. I am around the program , I know the players and coaches. Palmer and others are not going to stick their necks out for Allen on a whim. In all actuality, Palmer is very respected in the league. Along with Chris Simms and others touting Allen.
If you can't understand all the things Allen had to overcome to get this high in the football world, then I guess you never will. He had poor stats, small school, no offers, etc,etc, and still could have been a #1pick. He wasn't groomed to be a qb his whole life like the other guys he is being compared to. He made huge leaps in the small time that Palmer and the Senior Bowl staff had him. He is a sponge about receiving instruction, and picks it up quickly. Football people don't stick their necks out for guys they don't have it. And if you look at how many qb's who had great stats and came from big schools that didn't make it, you would realize no one really knows if any qb touted is going to make it. Everyone in football had already written Goff off, a few changes and he is considered one of the best qb's playing. So I really get tired of the real analysts, little alone the self proclaimed ones that think they know who is going to pan out. All I can say is don't let his quiet demeanor fool you, he is a competitor. Watch the UNLV game where he throws a pick. He is so mad at himself he runs the guy down and puts a violent tackle on him at the 2 yard line preventing the score.
I already know you are the type who will post as soon as you see this . You have to get the last word in regardless, so have at it. I tried to educate you and save you from yourself, but it won't happen. For some unknown reason you are the guy who has to show the world you know more than the guy you are debating. Any other subject and I would let you run with it. But not this one.