ComradeKayAdams
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Posts posted by ComradeKayAdams
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On 1/28/2024 at 4:52 AM, Doc Brown said:
That's quite the liberal trend for young woman in the last 15 years. These trends have a way of reverting back to the mean over time though.
Are young women really becoming more liberal? Or are we merely responding to a global political climate that has been shifting rightward underneath us? Maybe the proper question to ask is why young men’s brains are so reactionary and conspiracy-laden, compared to young men from just a couple decades ago? In this country alone, conservatives today are demonstrably more insane than they were at the turn of the century. We know this by comparing GOP policy platforms and candidate speeches throughout recent history.
My working theory (based on the history of fascism): among men, the global shift to the right is a misdirected consequence of deep economic anxiety, in a world dominated by late-stage neoliberalism. Women tend not to feel this economic anxiety in the same way as men do, partly because the economic climate of bifurcated “haves” and “have-nots” is dictated heavily by educational attainment levels (which currently favor women by a fair amount). A bit of evolutionary psychology, however, is also at play: we know that men are disproportionately judged in society by their wealth accumulation.
On 1/28/2024 at 5:39 AM, Joe Ferguson forever said:what mean? I think the data shows women generally are against authoritarianism, warring and bullying. It's ancient and little changed from the time of the Greek play "lysistrata"....
Woah! A Lysistrata reference!
Speaking VERY GENERALLY (which is what this obnoxiously reductive thread is all about), women don’t view empathy as a source of weakness. We are not afraid of it informing our public policy stances. Logical thought, devoid of empathy, can normalize sociopathy.
I would also argue that empathy is inextricably linked with rational decision-making in highly complex social structures. A couple examples of what I mean:
1. Universal health care and labor rights optimizing macroeconomic growth.
2. “Golden Rule” principles, as they pertain to issues like environmental rights/negative externalities, LGBT rights, and blowback from imperialistic foreign policies.
On 1/28/2024 at 7:13 AM, John from Riverside said:This whole thing is kind of funny Roe versus Wade is going to destroy the Republicans at the ballot box
Agreed…if not as early as this November, then definitely by the end of the decade. I’m tempering my electoral optimism for 2024 because of Biden’s senility and also because of the obvious ethnic cleansing in Gaza that he is condoning.
If Republicans were politically savvy, they would advocate for some form of a bipartisan federal codification of Roe v. Wade, centered around 15 weeks and full of well-articulated exceptions.
They are not politically savvy, however. They have instead chosen to declare some sort of bizarre pro-choice proxy war, of sorts, on Taylor Swift and on young females everywhere. Their candid outreach program for our demographic consists of calling us dumb, frivolous, hopelessly emotional, slutty, and too focused on having careers. Their best advice for us (no joke, if you glance at their social media and news media outlets!) is to hurry up and marry a conservative who will keep us focused on our true purposes: reproduction, housekeeping, and delicious sandwich-making. Let’s see how their antiquated wishful thinking plays out electorally…< insert Michael Jackson popcorn-eating gif here >…
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12 hours ago, ScotSHO said:
All this feel good stuff does not help you advance in the playoffs. But the more I watch, the more it seems like the Bills fans want a show and care less about winning.
Um…is anyone arguing that it does??
The money goes to a GREAT cause and it hopefully makes Tyler and his fiancee (daughter of former Bills punter, Rick Tuten!) feel a little better. That’s all we’re trying to accomplish here.
Supposedly they’ve crossed the $250k donation mark. Let’s keep it rising! Any extra money can go to spaying and neutering members of Bills Mafia who are harassing Tyler.
Here’s the website where you can donate: https://www.tenlivesclub.com/
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5 minutes ago, Bills!Win! said:
Not one negative person on TBD. This is twilight zone level stuff here. The way everyone is talking here is that we know that the Super Bowl is our destiny this year. I can feel it. I thought I felt it the last 4 years but this is different. Everyone is treating this last home game like it’s the Pep-Rally for the next 2 games
That's because we already threw those people into The Pit.
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1 hour ago, Milanos Milano said:
We want to enjoy the storm. It’s part of living. Just let us do it. Weather chaos makes you feel alive because it’s thrilling.
But it’s not just about the thrills, Milanos Milano! It’s about respecting time-honored Buffalonian traditions. Risking one’s life to attend a Bills game is but one small thread in a rich cultural tapestry that is rapidly unraveling. I’m hearing it everywhere I go now:
“Don’t drive through a blizzard just to attend a football game, Kay.”
“Don’t set your body on fire and jump onto that folding table, Kay.”
“Don’t bring your battery-operated Billdo to the Patriots home game, Kay.”
“Don’t get high on LSD, cocaine, and marijuana and then cover yourself in feces from a nearby porta-potty and then hop over that fence and run down into the 40-foot hole that will become the new Bills stadium in three years…Kay.”
What next? And when does it end? Can we at least keep Dyngus Day as is? Or must pu**ywillows and water buckets soon be accompanied with bike helmets and arm floaties?
“Those who would give up a little cultural liberty for a little extra safety f*&%ing deserve neither,” said President William McKinley, I think, right before they SHOT AND KILLED HIM in the very streets of our Queen City.
If these cultural COMMUNISTS have their druthers, our new stadium will soon become a character-less dome. We’ll have to forego all tailgating in the parking lot and instead walk right to our seats before kickoff. Our beloved Bills will be members of the rechristened National Two-Hand-Touch Football League (N2HTFL). Oh, and we’ll all be eating celery sticks sans chicken wings because of the cardiovascular disease risks…while speaking to each other in some sort of culturally appropriated Canadian dialect. The end of Western New York, as we have come to know and love it, is nigh.
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3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:
4 straight AFC east titles... You know Buffalo will be in full force to welcome them home
Anybody have any flight trackers?
I think I found them....Delta, flight #8859, ETA of 4:36am at the time of this post...just about to fly over the SC/NC border near Charlotte as of 3:30am...
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On 1/1/2024 at 11:27 AM, sherpa said:
A few comments on where I think this is unrealistic.
First, the discussion of a two state solution is currently without reality.
If one state is Israel, who is the other?
Simply stated there is nobody on that side for Israel to negotiate such an agreement.
There is Hamas, who is beyond barbarism and intent on not only destroying Israel but every Jew on earth, and the Palestinian Authority which is, yet another, Iranian puppet with no desire for coexistence.
Ergo.....There is nobody to negotiate with.
Second....The defense budget.
A 50% reduction is absurd.
Beyond that, if there is a desire to reduce the defense budget, it has to start with the mission and goals the US imposes on its military, which is currently to be able to fight and win a two front war on either side of the world at the same time.
Want to cut the budget? Change the requirements.
Late edit. Regarding the desire of including a number of "relatively equal strength wester democracies" isn't realistic. There were none with the military capability or desire at the end of WWII, and there absolutely isn't any now. The UK is probably the closest, and they aren't close and about to get un-closer. Canada, France, Germany and a host of others are not in good enough shape to shoulder any of that burden at this time.
As well, the more one understands how the defense budget is as much a jobs program and technology accelerator, the more one understands Congressional desire to keep it so.
Dividing it up to their liking with funds to their jurisdictions is what Congress does.
About "jumpstarting the economy," it doesn't need to be jumpstarted.
Passing legislation that anchors it is one of the big problems, as well as constantly changing policy and tax law after every election is a gross waste of potential.
An alliance with US businesses, which are the strength of this country, (certainly not our politicians), is the way to go.
1. Israel: Well…a two-state solution has been rendered impractical because of the continuous encroachments of Jewish Israeli settlers onto Palestinian lands. Let’s also not pretend as if Israel itself has been an honest, faithful negotiator during this entire time, dating back to 1967…and especially since the Second Intifada and its citizens’ swing toward far-right government leaders thereafter. Let’s also not forget Israel’s own culpability for barbarism, dating back to the 1948 Nakba.
2. Defense budget: The 50% reduction arguments are what I’ve seen others propose. I’m personally more in favor of 25-33% reductions, which would still leave the United States spending annually about twice as much as China. Warfare in the post-Cold War era is predominantly driven by advanced technology and not by manpower. The U.S. can still meet a mission objective of fighting a two-front war on opposite sides of the globe while closing down a bunch of extraneous military based abroad, putting most of the manpower on reserve/standby, and allocating much of the military expenditures as wartime/emergency deficit spending.
3. Post-WW2 power structures: I was merely describing what would be and what would have been preferable to having the United States as the lone democratic superpower. I don’t disagree with your historical explanation, though I do think there are ways today in which the U.S. can get other countries to shoulder more of the global military responsibilities.
4. Jumpstarting economies: You appear to be acknowledging that defense budget expenditures create jobs and accelerate technological growth. A classic precept of Keynesian economics is that government has the ability to redirect taxpayer investments and spending in ways that can grow the economy better than what the individual taxpayers might do under a laissez-faire system (especially during recessions).
On 1/2/2024 at 12:00 AM, Doc Brown said:No. They're a little too out there for my taste and there all like minded anyways. It's my opinion that progressives are well meaning but naive when it comes to domestic and foreign policy in general. I appreciate your take on Ukraine and Palestine. As far as Palestine/Israel goes, I think as long as Hamas is in power you just can't negotiate with them as they don't want a one or two-state solution.
Regarding the Israel/Palestine conflict:
I don’t see how pushing hard for a one-state solution is any more naive than thinking Israel can somehow defeat Hamas long-term with three months (and counting) of incredibly disproportionate bombing…bombing that has led to 30 thousand (and counting) murders, a 65-90% civilian casualty percentage (low-end reported from IDF…high-end reported from Euro-Med HRM), over 10 thousand (and counting) Gazan children who weren’t even alive during the last time Hamas was elected, 60 thousand (and counting) documented injuries of significance, and over 2 million displaced Gazans.
Without a doubt, the ethnic cleansing of Gaza is going to foment greater regional hatred toward Israel and inspire new legions of Hamas-like terrorists…multiple times over. It has already done significant damage to Israel’s economy and international reputation. Their response to 10/7 is looking uncomfortably analogous to our own country’s stupid response to 9/11. Everyone labeled progressives as naive and unpatriotic during the early days of the tragically misguided “War on Terror,” just like they’re calling progressives naive and anti-Semitic now.
I’m a professional engineer, so I like practical solutions. In the absence of any semblance of pragmatism, however, the correct choice WITHOUT HESITATION should be the most ethical one.
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On 12/30/2023 at 11:56 PM, Doc Brown said:
True for the most part although there is some overlap. However, I never said they weren't.
Fair enough. I just get defensive with any insinuation that progressives are isolationists. I’ll skip all the vague philosophical definitions or analyses of individual politicians and jump right to two contemporary case studies:
1. Ukraine: Standard progressive policy is that Ukraine should be supported with military aid, but only with explicit diplomatic conditions that help steer the region toward actual long-term peace. The “conditional” aid requirement is an acknowledgment that Ukraine was a clear victim of an aggressor (Russia), but at the same time a sensitivity to the various NATO provocations over the years which contributed to the aggression.
2. Palestine: Similarly, standard progressive policy here is that any aid given to Israel that rightfully helps the country defend itself from Hamas terrorism should be conditional. In this instance, the conditions are that Israel immediately halt its war crimes against Gazans and work honestly toward a one-state or two-state solution with the Palestinians.
Do you still visit BillsFans.com, Doc Brown? They have an open politics subforum now, though at the moment it seems to only be populated with a small handful of far-righties.
On 12/31/2023 at 12:05 AM, Capco said:Tbh, I already had some of these exact things in mind when I wrote my other post. But I was speaking in very broad terms on a global/macro scale.
My belief that US hegemony is not only best for Americans but also best for the stability of the world does not mean I have no criticisms to levy against our foreign and domestic policy blunders.
I'm all for reducing graft in the defense budget, and not starting unnecessary wars that hurt our standing and image abroad. But I'm still all for maintaining the strongest military in the world by several orders of magnitude. Both can be done and are not mutually exclusive. I am a strong believer in what JFK once said, despite my belief that the Vietnam War was a mistake:
Only when our arms are sufficient beyond doubt can we be certain beyond doubt that they will never be employed.
Even with a corruption free military-industrial complex (lol), maintaining this kind of might is an expensive endeavor. But in the long run it is far cheaper and more beneficial to be the biggest kid on the block for as long as we can do so while also lending a helping hand to our allies and not squandering our diplomatic capital on blunders like Iraq.
It's also far cheaper in the long run to have universal healthcare than the sh!tshow we have now, which is why I support it. There's more than enough money and human capital in this country to do all of this and more if we started correcting ourselves in the areas where we are off-course.
The alternative to US hegemony is a power vacuum that is likely filled by our adversaries, or a situation where the balance of power becomes so unstable that regional wars become the norm again. Our unquestioned primacy on the world stage requires the projection of power outside our borders, and is simply not something we should ever walk away from.
I strongly, strongly believe it is cheaper and better for everyone in the long run. Like you said, we have multiple forms of power we can project, both hard and soft, and I agree that we need to be more ethical and mindful of how we wield that power.We agree on a lot here, Capco, but Mademoiselle Adams is not long for anodyne conversation when it comes to American foreign policy…
First, we need to recognize that the United States functions as a corporate oligarchy and not as a vibrant republic responsive to the interests of its citizens. It follows that our country’s foreign policy reflects the economic interests of an elite few and has very little to do with any greater good. Moreover, the American citizenry has slowly become conditioned to adopt a “might makes right” sense of international ethics for mostly selfish reasons, while ignoring any Golden Rule violations. More than anything, I blame the Fourth Estate…and that includes BOTH sides…Fox News or MSNBC…all the same propaganda wing of the neoliberal corporate oligarchy.
I agree that the United States should strive for having the unquestionably strongest military in the world. But what defense budget size is enough to meet this objective? I’ve seen legitimate arguments in favor of an annual budget reduction of FIFTY PERCENT. As taxpayers, we need to ask ourselves whether the focus still remains on national defense or whether it is now on lining the coffers for the corporate oligarchs of the military-industrial complex.
I also agree with you that the world is better off with the United States as the dominant superpower…compared to a Russia, a China, a former Soviet Union, any autocracy, or any fundamentalist theocracy. However, I would argue that a number of Western democracies of relative equal strength would have been the much preferred power dynamic since the end of World War 2. There have been way too many regime-change wars, organized coups, and draconian sanctions on America’s lone eight-decade watch to the point that very few international people (especially in Latin America and the Middle East) still see the United States as any sort of shining beacon of moral integrity. We casually override the will of sovereign nations and invade, kill, interfere, and manipulate for the economic gain of the corporate oligarchy.
23 hours ago, Tommy Callahan said:No argument. That's what state supply side does. Think trillion dollar stimulus directly to the top quintiles. Nothing but artificial bubbles. But when people actually have disposable money to spend (true supply side) then at least the economy is natural.
Yup, and a key reason why Americans don’t have enough disposable money is because they are bogged down in debt: specifically educational debt, housing debt, and medical debt. The prices of these three critical goods/services have wildly outpaced wage growth since the Stagflation Era of the 1970’s. Too much money saved by Americans is funneled right to these very specific economic markets and not to the rest of the economy, which is highly suboptimal in terms of macroeconomic growth.
So the question is: how do we jumpstart the economy and move it toward a way more optimal state? Some economic situations call for supply-side solutions and some call for demand-side ones. Macroeconomics is super complex, so much so that optimization solutions are best determined by data trends instead of by theory. I think the macroeconomics literature shows pretty firmly that government-initiated demand-side solutions would be far more preferable to our current economic malaise.
And to be clear: I am NOT opposed to cutting taxes, streamlining government expenditures, eliminating frivolous regulations, expanding free trade policies, and the like. It’s just a matter of which government expenses/interventions are considered important and which are counterproductive to macroeconomic growth. The devil is in the details, as they say!
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On 12/29/2023 at 12:08 PM, Tommy Callahan said:
Trickle down is a talking point for people that don't grasp macro or microeconomics.
But since you brought it up. wouldn't that be what all the left stimulus was?
The tax cuts hit every bracket and the corporate rate helped more than anything.
Trickle-down economics destroys the working class and shrinks the middle class. We have over four decades now of macroeconomics evidence that strongly suggests this to be true. All that tax money loosened from the government’s hands mostly gets diverted into other endeavors like stock buybacks and overseas investments, NOT domestic job creation.
5 hours ago, Capco said:The US reaps far more in benefits from being the world hegemon than it costs to maintain it.
As mentioned earlier, the position of the dollar as the world's reserve currency gives us an enormous advantage when it comes to borrowing money. It's highly unlikely that this status would remain as such if we retreated from the world stage and our obligation as the primary pillar that supports the current post-WWII world order.
That factor alone is probably enough to justify our role as world policeman.
PS - I actually liked it when Trump called out our allies for not meeting their military spending requirements in accordance with our treaties. Even if we are the primary beneficiaries, we aren't the only beneficiaries and we shouldn't be the only ones supporting the status quo.Respectfully, Capco, I don’t think this is true at all. You can still wield power (military, economic, political) on the international stage without also having to subsidize the military operations of other countries. You can still maintain a strong reserve currency without having to exploit labor and resources and governments abroad. You can do all this through diplomacy, by building a healthy domestic economy, and by maintaining a technologically superior military within one’s own borders.
There’s the ethical component of this conversation, of course, that should be self-evident. As just one example among SO MANY, I’ll raise the issue of current ethnic cleansing in Gaza that the United States essentially funds for the primacy of Middle East hegemony (via an Israeli client state).
But then there’s the matter of economic opportunity cost. International military subsidies would be better served in the broader hands of taxpayers than in those specifically of the military-industrial complex. Example: in the United States, medical debt is easily the number one cause of personal/family financial ruin. If we could actually use all that money to instead fund our own universal health care system (like the rest of the modern industrialized world does), we could free up so many Americans to become healthier participants in the economy…i.e. have much better GDP growth, which equates to greater economic power.
4 hours ago, Doc Brown said:Defense spending decreased under Obama and then increased under Trump. He talked a good game but did nothing about it. I agree with Capco that the cost required to maintain being able to be the world's policeman post WWII is well worth it. The isolationists like Ron Paul and Bernie Sanders are just plain wrong imo.
Isolationism and non-interventionism are two distinct philosophies.
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24 minutes ago, Wacka said:
Maybe they will have him from the owner's box doing the "Where would you rather be..."
As long as it's not from the same luxury box that Takeo Spikes was given.
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16 hours ago, WhoTom said:
Bills ...
They named the team after the cat, right? 😉
No, I believe our team was named after a fictional serial killer. Did you know: the original helmet logo was that of a transvestite in a standing mirror, with his private parts tucked between his legs??
Later, the franchise opted for a more "action-based" logo that better represented the skills of its newly acquired marquee player, OJ Simpson. This subsequent logo took on the form of that same transvestite, but this time chasing a great big fat person while dressed in royal blue garb befitting a queen. A red streak was used to conceal the swinging private parts.
The NFL a.k.a. "No Fun League," however, deemed this particular logo a bit too risque...so they just went with the lame charging bison that we know and tolerate today.
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2 hours ago, Billsatlastin2018 said:
Allen is already # 80 ALL TIME with 164 TD Passes. (Mahomes is #39).
#103 in Passing Yards. Should be #99 after the Charger game.IN ADDITION, it’s more than that… much, much more!
# 2 in QB Rushing TDs with 49. Cam Newton is #1 with 75.
# 9 in QB Rushing Yards.
#25 in Passing TDs All Time in the Playoffs. (Mahomes is #8).
#27 in Passing Yards. (Mahomes is #10).
Allen is by far the greatest QB Buffalo has ever seen and by virtue of a lengthy career barring serious injury, should be right there with the GOAT at the end.
Those rushing stats are crazy!
Only 6 seasons into his career, Josh is already ranked 86th in career rushing touchdowns for the regular season…a list that includes ALL PLAYERS and that is (not surprisingly) dominated by running backs.
Pro Football Reference only shows the top 250 career rushing yards leaders for the regular season. The 250th player has 3,833 rushing yards. Our Josh is up to 3,485 yards and counting, so we should see him appear on that list too by next season.
When all is said and done, I believe that Josh is going to go down as the greatest dual-threat QB in NFL history. Maybe Lamar Jackson or Jalen Hurts can disrupt that narrative, but neither has his passing game talent. If Patrick Mahomes ends up as the GOAT, then Josh’s legacy can be augmented by being the GOAT's greatest adversary. Oh yeah, and that whole “first QB to lead the Bills to a championship” legacy too…ugh, too excited to sleep now…
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On 12/11/2023 at 8:09 PM, Rico said:
His career is in free-fall.
Buffalo News -> Bleacher Report -> Blog -> ???
Oh Rico, we all know how this tragic story ends: turning tricks behind parking lot dumpsters along Chippewa Street, or perhaps behind a cluster of trees in Cazenovia Park, or perhaps even behind the Buffalo Bills field house…right outside Sean McDermott’s very office window (eek!). It’s a tale as old as time itself. Like Citizen Kane, but much less cinematic.
A rollerball pen. A notepad. A voice recorder. A word processor. All of these are instruments that a first-rate sports journalist might use to communicate with the people.
Fishnet stockings. Thigh-high boots. Cherry red lipstick. Backless bodycon mini dresses. New instruments with which Tyler must soon become acquainted in order to keep those $8 increments coming. “Go Long” is about to take on an entirely new meaning in poor Tyler’s career.
The antagonist in this story chose to turn his back on the Western New York community that raised him, via betrayal of its football entertainment exemplar, all for an easy ride on the journalism career highway. Unfortunately for dear Dunne, he himself is soon to become the easy ride on a career highway physically manifested as, say, Route 219…going south somewhere in the Southtowns.
But wait…is there a happy ending to be uncovered in this story…besides, you know, the usual happy endings?? No, not really. Dunne is done in Western New York. But if you’re looking for a silver mascara-esque lining in this Greek-esque tragedy, know that most of Tyler’s Johns will be honorable and respectful and pay him the full $8 he will have each time rightfully earned. Buffalo, after all, is the “City of Good Neighbors.” Some may even take the time to help him fix that mascara running down his face before his next trick. They may carefully lean in, shape the mascara smudges into the vague form of a charging Buffalo, and whisper ever so softly into Tyler’s ear, “Go Bills.”
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4 hours ago, Pine Barrens Mafia said:
Response from the haiku control board:
Yes. Haiku are reserved for weeks in which we're going to squish the fishHaiku control board?!
Poetry moderation?!
Two Bills Drive Nazis!
Bending tradition
Is fair game, given the team.
Billdos on field too??
Gary ran his mouth
Three decades ago to Mark.
But “third time’s the charm!”
Newtonian truth:
As Mark’s blood pressure goes UP,
Dallas must go DOWN.
Skip Bayless is wrong.
Nick Wright nose nothing, really.
But Kay understands:
Cowboys on the road…
Buffalo’s record at home…
Queen City SLAUGHTER.
Special note to Dunne:
Traitor to Western New York!
Want our 8 dollars?!
You’re an ugly troll.
We’ll “McKelvin” your front yard.
Bills fans galvanized.
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4 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
We were getting terrorized in the entire offensive line and our receivers were getting zero separation…not a whole lot was gonna be successful tonight
I see what you did there!!
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3 hours ago, stuvian said:
who's Tyler Dunne?
Apparently he’s an independent football journalist who was born and raised in WNY, went to college in Syracuse, and now currently lives in WNY. Curiously enough, he has been a Green Bay Packers fan since childhood…
Dunne seems to have many personal connections with players, coaches, and staff members who would have good career-related reasons for seeing Coach McDermott go down in flames (Doug Whaley and Jim Monos being the most prominent such names).
Dunne has also expressed personal grievances against the Bills franchise for restricting his media access with the team.
Furthermore, Dunne’s particular business model would stand to benefit greatly from generating controversy that drives online clicks.
You don’t have to be a McDermott apologist to question Dunne’s motives. If you see this person roaming the streets of WNY, please ask him why he chose to release his article a few days before the most critical game of our beloved team’s season:
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1 hour ago, peterpan said:
Younger days, I was all Bills and it was terribly depressing. Then I bought a motorcycle and that was awesome. A truly hobby. I had never experienced that before. Whether it is hunting , guns, trucks, four wheelers…..
just try some other manly hobbies and have fun with that.
ps I have also found it’s a lot more enjoyable to watch on TV. Get to the TV 5 mins before kickoff, poop in your own house, Home immediately after the game. No sun burn or frost bite…..
Good for you, Peter Pan! Absolutely NOTHING in this world is more manly than shooting defenseless animals in the woods from large distances, while prancing around in bright green tights for camouflage.
A slightly less manly idea for beating the Buffalo blues: spending more time with loved ones. Unless you’re Von Miller, I would even recommend taking a whole week off from work to do so.
Yet another idea: accept the reality that Sean McDumbDumb will always fail this team in critical moments as long as he is the head coach. Also accept the reality that the Buffalo Sabres will never make the playoffs as long as Terry Pegula owns them. Turn to the Buffalo Bandits of the National Lacrosse League. The Bandits should remain highly competitive as long as Terry Pegula is unaware that he owns them. Here is an enjoyable synopsis video of last year’s championship season:
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2 hours ago, GETTOTHE50 said:
do we still not know what is going on with elam? has the media asked about him? this is like belichick and butler
The rumor is that he's suffering from a case of Notgoodatprofootballitis. Possibly career threatening.
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On 5/18/2023 at 10:21 PM, hondo in seattle said:
Sadly, neither Miller's nor Crippen's book is currently available on Amazon. I suppose it wouldn't have a big audience, but I'd personally love to read a book that covers Buffalo football from its shadowy beginnings in the 19th century all the way to the creation of the modern Bills. Miller's and Crippen's works probably have a lot of that information.
I didn't know the great depression played a role in the demise of Buffalo professional football. But I wouldn't call Buffalo a small market team back then, even if its trajectory wasn't a good one. In 1900, Buffalo was the 8th biggest city in the States. In 1920, we were the 11th. In 1940, we were the 14th.
Here's an interesting article on the Washington Glee Club: www.nhregister.com/news/article/NEW-HAVEN-200-Jim-Thorpe-and-Co-battle-11499619.php
By accident, I found out Tommy Hughitt was the (unofficial) third leading scorer in 1920. We had 3 of the top five.
americanfootballdatabase.fandom.com/wiki/1920_NFL_season
City populations: www.infoplease.com/us/cities/population-20-largest-us-cities-1900-2012
I’ve only read excerpts from Miller’s and Crippen’s books, but I doubt Buffalo pro football history before 1920 is covered sufficiently in either book. Maybe Miller covers a bit of Hughitt’s two seasons in the New York Pro Football League (1918-1919), right before he joined the APFA/NFL?
1920’s Buffalo pro football collapsed for multiple reasons. The Great Depression was a key factor, but certainly not the only factor!
I guess “small market” is a subjective and relative term. To be more clear, I’m referring to any 1920’s city other than New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, or Cleveland as “small market.” It’s a matter of league size for me. The NFL shrunk to just 12 teams by 1927, 11 by 1930 when the Buffalo franchise permanently disappeared, and only 8 teams by 1932 (5 of which were from the two cities of NYC and Chicago). But I do acknowledge your point, and you’re not wrong! There’s evidence from newspapers back then that the NFL’s subtle disdain for Buffalo could have been due to its weather and its particular geographic location much more so than its population size.
Thank you for the article on the Washington Glee Club! It’s a great football underdog story. Now I just need to order one of their jerseys…
Yes, Hughitt was such a great player! You know what? One could make a reasonable historical argument that he was the head coach and/or a critical player on the best pro football team in the country for four straight years (1918-1921)!! You’re already aware of the All-Americans’ claims to the 1920 and 1921 APFA titles. Due to all the player movement chaos from the Spanish Flu, the NYPFL’s 1918 Buffalo Niagaras might have been on par with the Ohio League’s 1918 champions, the Dayton Triangles. Likewise, the 1919 Buffalo Prospects could have been highly competitive with the Canton Bulldogs, the 1919 champions of the Ohio League. We’ll never know because these teams obviously never played each other. It’s like asking if the 1964 AFL Bills could have defeated the 1964 NFL Browns (yes!)…or if the 1965 AFL Bills could have defeated the 1965 Packers (um, probably not…).
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5 hours ago, Irv said:
Lunatic. Hmmm. That has a nice ring to it.
I am LOVING your attitude, Irv! So refreshing. Wear their insults like armor, and their insults can never be used to pierce you. Way to defuse the verbal trauma!
You have inspired me to compose a new ad for the “Irv in 2024: Moderate Me Harder, Daddy” campaign for PPP moderator. Let’s see how this one turns out…
Some are calling Irv a moderating “lunatic.”
They find the label apt and they pray that it will stick.
Oh how smug they are, finding their own insults so slick.
That “they” is Leh-nerd S. (I’ll also blame SoCal D!ck).
Irv is mentally ill, but is not this forum sick??
Crazy…like a fox, engaging in realpolitik
For hearts and minds of PPP’s right-wing Boomer clique,
Plus some liberal trolls and one moody Bolshevik.
“Brevity!” shout the readers who want poetry quick.
Um… y’all want fisticuffs with a skinny vegan chick?!
I’ll roll y’all over like an 80’s ginger named Rick!
And I’ll strike y’alls balls like T-Bass on a field goal kick!
I’ll slap my shots like Tage Thompson netting a hat trick.
And…well…f*ck Will Shakespeare’s soul, whose boots I SHALL NOT LICK.
Point is that Irv has built a great forum, brick by brick.
And moderating is hard work…no mental picnic…
VOTE IRV FOR PPP SUBFORUM MODERATOR IN 2024.
(This message has been paid for by the “Irv in 2024: Moderate Me Harder, Daddy” campaign).
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On 5/16/2023 at 11:13 AM, hondo in seattle said:
Kay, you should write a book about the early days of pro football in Buffalo. I didn't know about the game at the Polo Grounds - or if I did once know, I had forgotten and didn't register the significance. Cool we beat the great Jim Thorpe in front of a NYC audience. Sucks that the game probably affected the important game the following day against Akron.
It's interesting when you look at the old schedules. Back then professional NFL (APFA) teams played games against non-NFL semipro and pro teams. In 1920, the great Canton Bulldogs played the Washington Glee Club - an actual glee club??? - in front of 11,000 fans and only managed a tie. Canton lost to another non-NFL team: Union AA of Phoenixville! Phoenixville billed itself as the "US Professional Champions" after finishing their season - mostly against non-NFL local clubs - undefeated.
Hondo,
Imagine the 2023 Bills traveling to Kansas City on a Sunday afternoon, and then flying back home to host the Bengals the next night. That is analogous to what the 1920 Buffalo All-Americans had to do to finish their schedule against the Bulldogs and Pros! Remember that everyone back then played on both offense and defense, with about 5 reserve players. I wish we could blame league overlords or someone like George Halas for this terrible schedule, but this was solely the fault of Frank McNeil (Buffalo’s owner at the time).
Yeah, pro football pre-1930’s was truly the Wild West compared to what it is now. You had a bunch of regional pro/semi-pro circuits throughout the country with ad hoc scheduling practices. The main goal was simply to play anyone that they thought would draw a large enough crowd (i.e. draw a profit). The Great Depression is what ultimately wiped out the decades-long football culture of somewhat disorganized independent football clubs. The NFL, however, had also been making concerted efforts since its inception to standardize and nationalize pro football. 1927 was a watershed season for this directive. Unfortunately, our beloved Buffalo franchise couldn’t survive both the Great Depression and the NFL’s targeted movement away from small-market Midwest teams.
By the way, the 1920 Union Club of Phoenixville was definitely no tomato can on Canton’s schedule! It was a famous independent all-star club from the Philly metro area and actually featured several players who simultaneously played for our Buffalo All-Americans (don’t ask me how that was allowed…). I know nothing, however, about that alleged football juggernaut known as the “Washington Glee Club” lol…
If I were to write a book on Buffalo pro football before 1960, I would probably focus on the New York Pro Football League and the emergence of football in Western/Upstate NY roughly between 1870 and 1920. Jeffrey Miller has the 1920-1929 Buffalo NFL franchise covered well with his book, “Buffalo’s Forgotten Champions: The Story of Buffalo’s First Professional Football Team and the Lost 1921 Title.” Ken Crippen has the AAFC Bills covered well with his book, “The Original Buffalo Bills: A History of the All-America Football Conference Team, 1946-1949.” My own book would be fairly comprehensive, focusing on both football strategy evolution and football player stories, while also weaving an overarching societal narrative that pays tribute to the city of Buffalo. If I write it, will you buy?? LOL…
-Kay
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13 hours ago, hondo in seattle said:
Kay, you've been very informative! Good stuff!!! I figured you'd mention Buffalo's weaker schedule and it is, admittedly, a good point.
I don't know if the Bills are building a museum at the new stadium, but they should. And they should have exhibits celebrating the professional football teams that existed in Buffalo before the Bills. I don't know much but I'd love to learn more and it would be cool to see old game film - where it exists - and artifacts like yellowed 1920's news clippings, leather helmets, and melon-shaped footballs.
My last push for wanting Hughitt in the HOF... The Canton Bulldogs are considered by many to be the NFL's first great team. There's a reason the HOF is in Canton. But the All-Americans were just as good the first two years of the NFL. Buffalo scored more points and won more games - admittedly against a weaker schedule. In head-to-head matchups in the 1920 and 1921 seasons, Buffalo went 1-1-1 against Canton and outscored them.Canton had 3 HOFers on its 1920 squad and 1 on the 1921 team. In their short history, Canton had 6 HOFers. The All-Americans, despite their dominance in 1920-1921 had none. It seems disproportionate and unfair. The HOF selection committee should recognize the All-Americans and vote one of their players into the Hall.
Like other NFL teams, the All-Americans had some weak opponents that pumped up their stats. But Buffalo could compete with the best of them. In 1921, we finished the regular season undefeated, having beaten the top NFL teams: the Chicago Staleys and Akron Pros (and tying Canton). But you know the story... After finishing the season with a convincing 14-0 win against Akron, the exhausted players took a train ride to Chicago with no days rest for an "exhibition" game that the NFL decided to count as a championship game. Undefeated... but no championship or Hall of Famers. Doesn't seem right.
I hear ya! I would love to see at least Tommy Hughitt and Swede Youngstrom in the Hall of Fame. The problem is that the people deciding who gets in have major biases against certain categories of players, particularly anyone who played pre-merger. It will take special committees and concerted outside pressure to ever get them to right these wrongs.
An additional note on uneven scheduling that I forgot to mention: the All-Americans played 20 home games but only 3 away games during the 1920 and 1921 seasons! Two of those away games were against George Halas’ Bears in 1921…and you already know the historical significance of those two games...
The third was a December 1920 neutral site game against the Canton Bulldogs. It took place at Manhattan’s Polo Grounds and was the first ever pro football game to have been played in NYC. The purpose was to showcase the Midwest regional NFL (called the APFA at the time) to a larger, more national audience. Hughitt’s All-Americans beat Jim Thorpe’s Bulldogs by a score of 7-3. The very next day, a presumably tired All-Americans team played the Akron Pros in Buffalo and only managed to tie them 0-0…and as you know, the 1920 league title was later awarded to the Pros…
When people talk about the greatest games in NFL history, I wish more would talk about this December 1920 game at the Polo Grounds! It certainly played a role in popularizing pro football beyond the Great Lakes region and into the mid-Atlantic metropolitan region. If television was around back then, maybe it would have been as impactful as the 1958 NFL Championship game or Super Bowl 3?
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1 hour ago, hondo in seattle said:
Let me ask you because I don't know, and you might...
In 1920, Buffalo led the league in scoring by a wide margin. We recorded 258 points that year. The next best team, the Jim Thorpe led Canton Bulldogs, scored 208.
In 1921, we again led the league in scoring by a wide margin. We put up 211 points that year versus 148 for the next highest-scoring team, the Akron Indians.
We were an offensive powerhouse. In the first two seasons combined, we scored 469 points. The next best team (Canton) scored 314. We outscored the 2nd most talented team, the storied Bulldogs with 4 Hall of Famers, by just about 50%!
Were we just that more talented - with zero HOFers? Or was Hughitt doing something interesting on offense? The PFRA article says Hughitt was a "progressive" coach and employed a system he learned from the "legendary" Fielding Yost. Yost won 4 national championships at Michigan with his "point-a-minute" offense. Maybe Hughitt did bring some impactful offensive scheme into the NFL??? Something lost to football history???
Hondo,
Their perceived dominance was partly due to the highly uneven scheduling that took place during the 1920’s NFL. Teams would often not play the same number of games or play the same teams. Strength of schedule varied dramatically.
The All-Americans played 5 teams outside the league in 1920, defeating them by a total score of 184-13. They would also blow out very weak teams like the Rochester Jeffersons and Columbus Panhandles.
But whenever they played the best teams in the country, the scores were much more modest. To be clear, Buffalo was definitely a great team and on par with the very best! But from 1920-1921, the All-Americans collectively outscored the Akron Pros, Chicago Bears, and Canton Bulldogs by a point total of 42-29 over 8 games. That’s an offense averaging only 5.25 points per game against the best competition. By no means was this awful offensive production by the standards of the 1920’s, but it also wasn’t evidence of an unstoppable juggernaut.
In terms of football X’s and O’s, it's hard to say how innovative the Buffalo All-Americans were. There was no real game film back then, so newspaper reports are the best evidence for historians. Fielding Yost’s offense had been around for two decades by the time the NFL began. I’m only GUESSING when I say that his University of Michigan offensive system was already fairly well-known to the players from the Midwest and to the teams from the eastern half of the league (Ohio, Michigan, and Western New York). The Ohio League teams would have probably seen it when Tommy Hughitt played against them as QB of the Youngstown Patricians. Teams from Michigan would also regularly play against Ohio League teams.
Did any of this help?? Keep in mind that I’m an AMATEUR INTERNET historian lol…you’ll want to consult the PFRA or other experts for better info. Good conversation, though! Thank you for that!
-Kay
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On 5/13/2023 at 11:29 AM, hondo in seattle said:
This is an awesome comment by someone who knows their Buffalo football history. Thanks for posting!
I get what you're saying about Hughitt not being the star. Somewhere I read Ockie Anderson - who rotated with Hughitt at QB and RB - was the better runner. But Hughitt was no slouch as a player. As I understand it, he was always on the field making meaningful contributions at one position or another. In 1920, Hughitt scored 52 points (8 TDs, 4 conversions) of Buffalo's league-leading 258 points. Hughitt, by himself, outscored our opponents who managed only 32 points against us that season. In 1922, George Halas & the Canton Daily News named Hughitt the starting QB of the NFL All-Pro team.
The All-Americans had the best record over the first two years of the league and scored - by far - the most points. They also had the biggest point differential. When you consider his accomplishments both as a player and coach, Hughitt is worthy of the HOF, though I know his induction will never happen. In 1969, when Canton named its 1920s all-decade team, they didn't include Hughitt or any Buffalo players, despite our early dominance.
Btw, it seems very Billsy that the Buffalo squad tied for the league lead in the first two seasons of the NFL but still didn't win a championship.
P.S. As a football historian, you're probably aware of the good article on Hughitt posted by the Pro Football Researchers Association:
www.profootballresearchers.org/biography/Hughitt_Tommy.pdf
Ockie Anderson was probably the better athlete, but Tommy Hughitt had at one point played basically every football position other than OL and DL. You had to have been pretty athletic to be that versatile!
Hughitt’s suitability for the Hall of Fame boils down to a question of the Hall’s size. If it’s a place to be reserved for only 1 member, then everyone besides Tom Brady is excluded. If it’s going to hold something like 1,000 members, then Hughitt is absolutely up for debate! But what about, say, 412 members? That would equal 4 members per year times every year of the league’s existence, which is close to the current total of 371. In that case, I am much more inclined to fight for some of our AFL Bills before I am for Hughitt. Three reasons for that:
1. Hughitt and his teams didn’t impact the pro game nearly to the extent that our AFL Bills did. Many fans don’t realize that Cookie’s running prowess and Joe Collier’s defensive dominance did a lot to legitimize (in the eyes of the football-viewing public) the new, wide-open, air-it-out, “gimmicky” AFL style of football. Furthermore, the AFL Bills contributed much to the early schematic blueprints used to counter all those Sid Gillman-esque teams…teams which more closely resembled modern NFL teams, ironically enough, than anything that was seen in the 1960’s NFL.
2. Fair or not, pro football snobbery back then favored anything from the Ohio League and looked down upon anything from places like upstate New York. As you may already know, Tommy Hughitt’s All-Americans were born in the pre-1920’s New York Pro Football League. He will have a steep uphill battle with Hall evaluators and football historians because of this.
3. The All-Americans franchise went downhill quickly after the exodus of the U Penn trio (Lou Little, Heinie Miller, Lud Wray) and after Ockie Anderson’s career-ending knee injury. Hall of Fame evaluators will hold that against Hughitt when determining his greatness.
You are correct in thinking that the great tragedy of the 1920-1921 Buffalo All-Americans is what could have been for the city of Buffalo... Instead of a national laughingstock, maybe the world thinks of us as they do Green Bay and Canton? Maybe Hughitt is thought of in a similar way that Lombardi is for the Packers or Jim Thorpe is for the Canton Bulldogs? Maybe the small-market All-Americans franchise goes on to survive the Great Depression like the Bears, Cardinals, and Giants did? Then again, our Bills wouldn’t have ever existed…
P.S. Yes, I’m familiar with much of the PFRA’s work! Jeffrey Miller and Ken Crippen are huge names in the Buffalo pro football history world. As a matter of fact, Ken used to post here at TwoBillsDrive as “KRC.”
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Bills colors? What say you?
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
Uh…not me, at least!!! I’m submitting a favorable review of the OP’s design for both Vogue and Harper’s Bazaar:
Take a simple sartorial spin on the classic red, white, and royal blue.
Like the timeless “little black dress,” this quintessential “big black jersey” imbues Bills Mafia’s collective wardrobe with a dash of vivacious versatility and ethereal elegance. Audrey Hepburn meets Bills Elvis Guy, if you will. On a jaunt to Wegmans? Pair this jersey with your favorite Zubaz yoga comfort pants, if you must. On a hot date to the AKG Art Museum with Johnny McDimples? Complement an oversized jersey dress version with some sassy knee-highs, if you dare.
Do you happen to be an obese omnivore whose self-discipline is as low as your ethical regard for all of God’s sentient creatures? If so, then forego a major eating disorder commitment and instead enjoy the slimming effect of this dark-hued jersey, as you waddle through the tailgate parking lot together with your fellow football faithful fatties, like a herd of corpulent bison in the night, or through Highmark Stadium seating rows like blood traversing restricted arteries after years of gluttonous chicken wing consumption.
Or perhaps your clothing preferences transcend the practical into the symbolic?
Why not make a gothic statement with your apparel and commemorate the many tragedies of Buffalo pro football with a black alternative jersey? No makeup brand or makeup color can make the tincture of slit wrist scar tissue pop quite like this decadent ebony alternative, as you showcase to the world your sullen side because your favorite football team never achieved its ultimate gridiron glory. Atone for every one of the 1921 Staley Swindle, the 1950 AAFC franchise rejection, the 1967 New Year’s Day disaster, Saban quitting for the second time, Ferguson’s poopy playoff ankle, the infamous Four Falls of Buffalo, the even more infamous two murders of OJ, the one “miracle” in the Music City, the seventeen straight years without playoffs, the Thirteen Seconds game, and everything Sabres-related for good measure (just because), as you dive headfirst into The Pit while wearing this jersey.
Or is positivity more your cup of tea, albeit not at the expense of personal attention? Then on a metaphorically lighter note, you can pay homage to the franchise’s rich heritage of civil rights achievement by approximately matching your jersey color with the complexion of venerable civil rights icons like Cookie Gilchrist, Marlin Briscoe, and James Harris. Virtue signal to the world that you were one of the good Western New Yorkers who wasn’t harassing Marshawn Lynch in the Southtowns from 2007-2010. Bask in the societal plaudits as you are commended for your social justice awareness, beyond that one time you agreed to go on a date with that mixed race guy.
In any case, no Upstate NY aesthete should dare venture into a Downstate NY world without this black Buffalo Bills jersey. For maximum jealousy effect, purchase a Josh Allen #17 version today so to constantly remind the New Jersey Jests fans what they’re missing. If they like it, then they should have put a 2018 first round draft pick on it.