[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

34 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

And it wasn't enough. It wasn't enough to get past KC and it CERTAINLY wouldn't have been enough to beat the Powerhouse Eagles.

 

Do you know why Josh Allen won MVP? It wasn't because he was so clearly better than Lamar. It's because he did what he did with what is perceived as a lacking roster across the board and Lamar had help all around him. We are not one "ALL PRO CALIBER PLAYER" away from winning a Championship. We had no business doing what we did last season with that roster. It's a miracle it happened and the idea that we'll always be able to do that with that kind of roster is a flawed thought.

 

You think we're bringing back the same team and are choosing to ignore that we aren't even there yet. There's glaring holes or places that needed improvement. We should have made improvements almost across the board. We haven't done that. 

 

We lost Mack Hollins, Amari Cooper, Rasul Douglas, Von Miller, Dawuane Smoot, Austin Johnson, Quintin Morris, Kaiir Elam, Sam Martin, Quinton Jefferson, and Jordan Phillips.

 

In Free Agency to hit the field Week 1, we signed Joey Bosa, Joshua Palmer, Dane Jackson, and Jake Camarda (as a future who is just a competition piece) to replace some of those players. That's it. Guys like Michael Hoecht and Larry Ogunjobi were going to replace a couple of them - but we won't have them until about halfway through the season, so we have to have guys in place for them as well.

 

You can yell about needing "ALL PRO CALIBER PLAYERS" all you want. You've been told time and again by multiple posters that what you want isn't feasible for many, MANY different reasons. Even if it were feasible and you got a "Blue Chip Prospect" - then teams are going to target Dane Jackson, or run up the gut on Daquan Jones and whomever we'd line up in the poor rotation we'd have there, or Josh is going to have a pass catcher fail him like last year when the game is on the line from a drop or people not getting open. One player is not going to solve all of those things. And that's not even taking account important depth that screws us when someone goes down. 

 

And just because a Draft prospect is considered "Blue Chip" doesn't mean they're going to be that. The history of the Draft is filled with just as many guys that didn't live up to their expectations them did. Or guys that were expected to be the best that were outclassed by guys who went after them.

 

We've had some of them ourselves in the Top 10. Sammy Watkins, Mike Williams, even Ed Oliver, who is decent, was expected to be much more and hasn't been as good as other DT's that came after him. Some of our best players were taken in Rounds after 1. You'd be giving up a chance on a crap ton of guys who could be the next Christian Benford, Khalil Shakir, Dion Dawkins, Matt Milano, James Cook, Taron Johnson, or O'Cyrus Torrence for one player who could completely bust out.

 

This thread has become as long as it has because you have a million posters who have pointed out a million flaws in what you're saying. And you just come back yelling the same erroneous talking points. Yell at a wall. What you want is not feasible and won't happen. We'll move around the board. We may even trade up in Round 1. But we're not going to get to where you're suggesting. And in the end, odds are we'll be a much better team all around for it. 

Pick 9 or 11 is too high? That’s the best CB DT  or wide receiver, probably on your board sitting there . Waiting around is going to get another Elam or Kincaid. 

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

18 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

No, we're not keeping 10. And there will be trades. But there won't be a trade like what you're talking about that would require into the Top 5-10. 

 

And unfortunately, after the suspensions to Hoecht and Ogunjobi, there's actually more open roster spots than I was hoping and expecting at this point. We're actually closer to 10 than we are the 1 missing piece you're talking....

 

QB:

Josh Allen

Mitch Trubisky (maybe Mike White if they want to save money and he shows up in camp)

 

RB:

James Cook

Ray Davis

Ty Johnson

Reggie Gilliam (FB)

 

WR:

Khalil Shakir

Josh Palmer

Keon Coleman

Curtis Samuel

 

TE:

Dalton Kincaid 

Dawson Knox

 

OL:

Dion Dawkins

David Edwards

Connor McGovern

O'Cyrus Torrence

Spencer Brown

Ryan Van Demark

Alec Anderson

Tylan Grable

 

DE:

Greg Rousseau

Joey Bosa

AJ Epenesa

Javon Solomon

 

DT:

Ed Oliver

Daquan Jones

Dewayne Carter

 

LB:

Terrel Bernard

Matt Milano

Dorian Williams

Edefuan Olofoshio

Joe Andreesen 

 

CB:

Christian Benford

Taron Johnson (Nickel)

Dane Jackson

Ja'Marcus Ingram

 

S:

Taylor Rapp

Cole Bishop

Damar Hamlin

Darrick Forrest

Cam Lewis

 

ST:

Tyler Bass

Jake Camarda (?)

Reid Ferguson

Brandon Codrington (maybe Shenault instead if they feel he offers more as a Returner)

 

That's 46 roster spots. There's 7 open spots right now. And some of these 46 spots they may want to upgrade from. Specifically Carmada at Punter, maybe one of the LB'ers, maybe only one of Forrest and Hamlin stick, maybe only one of Jackson and Ingram stick. Multiple positions need big time help. Specifically DT, CB, Edge, and WR. Open spots we need 2-3 DT's (and one of them should start over Jones at 1T), at least 1 CB (and they should be in the mix to start), 1 DE, 1 WR (and they should be a solid one given the lacking group we have), and 1 TE. Maybe a Punter too as I doubt we go into camp relying on Camarda.

 

Long story short - there's going to be more Draft Picks making this team than I expected would to this point.

We went to a AFC championship with this same core. We have ONE ALL PRO CALIBER PLAYER ITS JOSH ALLEN. He needs to get a rookie that he projects to be an all pro. Waiting got us Elam and dalton Kincaid. Which Beane publicly stated was his last graded 1st rounder on the board. I want the highest graded guy on the board which is a real possibility at Cb DT and WR since their isn’t a consensus number 1 player.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

3 minutes ago, Buffalo716 said:

The term generational player literally means once in a generation lol

 

Literally the entirety of the NFL all 32 teams would kill for that...

 

Tom Brady and Barry Sanders and Randy Moss were once in a generation players.. they don't walk through the door

We have ONE ALLPRO caliber player right now. Josh Allen. How about we get him a projected special player. Sauce Gardner Derek Stingley Bijan Robinson all these guys came playing at a pro ball level in their rookie season. And that’s just to name a few there have been plenty in the recent top half of drafts. Beane Needs to go get the player he regards as special at a position of need.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

Just now, GunnerBill said:

 

It comes back to @gonzo1105's point. I just don't think there is big separation between the top 2 or 3 corners and the next group.

A trade is imminent. we’re not keeping 10 rookies. We could trade out to later draft that’s a possibility or we could take a big swing and try to go get the missing piece. That’s my stance and I hope we do it.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

1 minute ago, GunnerBill said:

 

And with less talent around him he looked significantly more ordinary this past season. I'm a bit of a Will Johnson sceptic though. I do have a 1st round grade on him but a low one. I'm lower than the consensus on him for sure. I just don't think his 2024 tape is very good. 

I believe it’s Will Johnson but I honestly don’t care which corner it is, trade up and get your number one corner who is going to play like a number one corner come playoff time. Rookie contracts are cheap and we don’t have much cap. Space.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

11 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Yep. I like Barron quite a bit more than I like Johnson but he isn't what the Bills look for anyway and I don't think either of them are in that "can't miss, swing for the fences" trade up territory.

Will Johnson was considered the best player on a national championship team as a true sophomore I strongly disagree. Whatever corner gets drafted is going to have to be ready for playoff football I don’t wanna hear none of that rookie mess.  the corners we have backing up have proven not to be.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

4 minutes ago, gonzo1105 said:

Will Johnson and Jahdae Barron are good players but they are no sure thing to be lockdown NFL guys. I wouldn’t give up that kind of value when I can get Trey Amos who’s a perfect fit for the Bills, Hairston who would automatically make the Bills more athletic in the back end, or injury guys like Ravel or Morrison or a man cover guy in Thomas somewhere around 30 

Will Johnson is better than good before his injury. He was a top three pick Beane I believe they’ve messed up a few drafts for being too conservative. When you’re picking really late in the draft and the couple teams in front of you steal your guy. go get your first round guy. We are trying to win a championship. We need this CB to step in and play at an extremely high-level.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

Just now, gonzo1105 said:

I know we’ve discussed this before a bit but to me you have to take the CB at 30 unless there is just a flat out sure thing DL guy that falls into your lap. Way better value at DL at 56 and 62 than CB 

Sf publicly stated they are in “reset” if will Johnson is there go get him. Two first and a second. Take best DT pick at 62

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

1 hour ago, Warriorspikes51 said:

We’ll need to trade up for Grant IMO

Do you believe he is the best DT in draft? 

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

Are you apart of any nfl front offices?Why wouldn’t the Saints or 49ers or jets? There have already been reports of titians shopping pick. 

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

12 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

It couldn't. No way.

Pick 27 next year’s first Pick 59 two 4 round picks for Julio Jones. I’m tired of everybody bringing up all this draft chart mumbo-jumbo all it  takes is a willing trade partner. 

I believe there will be plenty of willing trading partners to grab a blue chip prospect. Julio Jones did not add up on anybody’s charts. will Johnson  could probably be had at 11 for San Francisco and all of their move show they are rebuilding.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

14 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

You are the one lying to yourself. Or you don't understand the draft. What you are talking about is a nice idea but it is next to impossible. 

 

The Giants are not tanking. They probably should be. But the owner has told the GM and Coach it is "win or else" in 2025. With that ultimatum there is zero chance they drop to #30. Even if they were trying to stack picks for next year.... the Bills are gonna have a late 1st. That doesn't help a ton. 

 

I agree we need a blue chipper. But there are very few of them in this draft (at least in terms of sure things) and we have no chance to get one.

The head coach is a sacrificial lamb. everybody knows he doesn’t have a chance to win this year. He will collect his millions and move onto a coordinator position. There is a head coach in the same situation every year. The patriots and Raiders just fired their head coach after one year and they were sacrificial lambs. They didn’t have a legitimate chance to win with those rosters.

 

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

3 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

They can't get to the Titans, Browns, Giants, Jags picks. No team in the top 5 has a reason to drop down to #30. To do that the Bills would have to be willing to do it in two deals.... and they just don't have the capital. 

 

And in this draft I am not that fussed about getting to #11 or #14. I don't think the talent differential is that big between #11 and #30. There are max 5 or 6 blie chippers in this class.

If you think the Giants aren’t in the arch Manning sweepstakes, you’re lying to yourself. The Eagles commanders and Cowboys are in their division. the saints have ties to the Manning family their team is old and no cap space a boatload of pics will help infuse some youth into that team. The Jaguars have a new GM and new GM’s want their own players. We could have the best DT or CB or WR probably with the Saints pick.

2 minutes ago, GunnerBill said:

 

Carter won't get to #5. And Jax would not move down to #30 regardless.

Hopefully we can keep 30 and give them second third and fourth round draft picks. I think people underestimate a new GM always overturns the roster and instill their own people in place you need a lot of pics to do that fast. We need one more super talented piece to dominate the league.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

10 minutes ago, djp14150 said:

 

How exactly? Needle pushers might be easier to find…..

Trade up. Titans Browns Giants, jaguars Saints, 49ers Colts all have a reason that they would trade down.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

Just now, Thurman#1 said:

 

 

As for wanting to talk about whether getting an elite talent is better than, um, not getting an elite talent ... this doesn't seem like a new or particularly interesting thought to me. I've certainly thought it. I think that everything equal we'd all agree. But things are almost never equal. 

 

Massey and Thaler is the most famous study pointing this out but every study on the subject has shown the same thing. Which is that if they want to improve your chances of better outcomes, your favorite teams should NOT use valuable high-level picks to move up in the draft. In fact, trading back generally increases the value of your output.

 

Oh, and remind me, how many Lombardi trophies did teams with Julio Jones on them win? We'll never know how many they would have won if they had used those picks rather than trading them. But it's certainly possijble it might have been more than zero.

We are already at the point where we already have a really good team. Atlanta didn’t have a Josh Allen or a McDermott. We have 10 pics and I don’t see how 10 rookies can make this team.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

48 minutes ago, ndirish1978 said:

This trade offer suggested by OP in this thread is ridiculous. Why even make a thread without checking to see if it's even remotely possible? Have you ever looked at a draft value chart? https://www.drafttek.com/NFL-Trade-Value-Chart.asp?RequestTeam=buf

 

Future picks are devalued by a round per year. So next year's third is valued as a 4th. We don't have a pick in the 3rd rd this year, so you're essentially asking us to give up 2026 and 2027 3rd rd picks for 4th and 5th rd value. Let's add up this ridiculous scenario and see how many points it gets us shall we?

 

Both 2nds this year: 624

2026 2nd (valued as a 3rd this year): 124 

2026 3rd (valued as a 4th this year): 40

2027 3rd (valued as a 5th this year): 24.2

 

Total 812.2

 

Congrats, you just traded away 5 high round players for pick 21 in the draft. This is best case scenario for your proposition as I'm using the outdated Jimmy Johnson model. The NFL isn't Madden. 

 

Let's use the newer Rich Hill draft value chart which is closer to what is actually used today

Both 2nds this year: 182

2026 2nd (valued as a 3rd this year): 41 

2026 3rd (valued as a 4th this year): 18

2027 3rd (valued as a 5th this year): 9

 

Total 250

Congrats, you just traded away 5 high round players for pick 23 in the draft.

Julio Jones went for two 1’s which one was pick 27 a second round pick which was pick 59 two 4 round picks to move all the way up to pick four. If we get a Julio Jones level player, we’re going to win a championship. I said generational talent so if the trade package which is six pics, that’s a lot of draft capital is it  enough fine . that still not the point of this post a pro bowl rookie talent gets us over the top I believe.

2 hours ago, Thurman#1 said:

This is a new thought.

I’d rather talk about trying to acquire a pro ball level talent with limited cap. Space do they to talk about some fifth string wide receiver who’s barely going to play or some third string running back who can hopefully replace cook.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

29 minutes ago, MikePJ76 said:

I don’t have the chart in front of me but I think the total point value of all of buffalo’s draft picks is somewhere between 1440 and 1500.

 

the picks you are talking about would require the entire 2025 draft plus most of next years.

I think the top 5 picks are worth more than 2200 points on the chart

 

Two 1’s two’s maybe a fourth?

Bosa groot Oliver Carter NASCAR package. That’s  a scary site.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

24 minutes ago, Richard Noggin said:

 

What team would move back THAT FAR from that high? You're talking about moving back like 50-ish picks. That's the issue with these mock draft sites where we can hold onto our best picks and still trade up aggressively. There arguably isn't enough value in the Bills trade offer you've proposed to get them into the top-25 picks! (According to Rich Hill updated chart.) And the Bills don't have a 3rd this year, so those are devalued heavily.  Even adding in next year's 1st, if you're committed to trying to hold onto 30, only gets the Bills maybe into top-15. Plus you're still needing a team to sacrifice so much in the short term. 

 

☝️(I see this was just broken down in more concrete detail 10 minutes before my own more summarized reply.)

I said a generational talent. A generational talent plays at a pro bowl level from year one. if it takes two1 and two second so be it. If Abdul Carter is rookie, Michael Parsons, we won the championship. If Will Johnson is rookie sauce, Gardner we won a championship. If whatever DT is playing at Jalen cater rookie year Championship. We already know we can win with this core. No glaring need besides a cornerback.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

13 minutes ago, BillsFanForever19 said:

 

Two massive problems with this:

 

1.) Teams in the Top 10 (where that talent is) almost always don't want to drop from the top of the Draft all the way to the bottom. 

 

2.) Even if there were a team that wanted to do that, we can't afford to give up the picks it would take to make that happen - we have far too many needs to give up the picks to do it this season. Especially after the suspensions to Hoecht and Ogunjobi.

 

We can maneuver around the board to grab guys we like. But Top 10? Not gonna happen. 

What needs? The whole team came back basically. Dt and cb? Okay go get the best one if he is a blue chipper. We have always been able to find good players for cheapor late in the draft under Beane we need an anther all pro to get over the top imo. 

9 minutes ago, Doc Brown said:

We already blew it by not trading for Metcalf.  Let me know if there's a WR who's a 6'4" physical freak that runs a 4.33 40 time in this draft.

Golden will be the next AB without the mental issues in my personal opinion.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

I never said you did say it…just comparing that idea to yours ….i can’t see it happening though like that move …

 

 

It needs to happen because we don’t have much cap Space. Prime year all pro free agents aren’t really looking at Buffalo because of New York’s taxes and weather. We are one piece away go all out and get it. I don’t want to waste a first ballot Hall of Fame quarterbacks career playing on conservative.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

25 minutes ago, Blainorama5 said:

We need Bruce Smith!!  😉

Seriously, I feel like one more all pro tips the scales  of Power. 

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

They won’t be moving down to 30…if at all …

 

Last year a number of people here wanted to move into the Top 10 to take Rome Odunze…. Aren’t you glad that didn’t happen?

I said the best Wr Db Dt or De. He never was considered to be the best as far as my memories concerned.

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

1 minute ago, Aussie Joe said:

The Browns ? 😂

 

gunna move up to 2 😂

The Saints will probably move nine. The jags just got a new GM. Probably wants to put his own players in place 

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

18 minutes ago, cle23 said:

 

You plan to trade up to #2 Overall, or even #9, for a couple 2nds and 3rds?  It would be pushing it even including #30.  Those teams need "generational talent" just as much as anybody else, probably more.

Who secretly is in the arch Manning sweepstakes? Six picks for one pick teams would listen. 3 2nds 2 3rds and a 4th 

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:

I saw in a movie we can have the 6th pick for 3 2nd round picks. 😁

Three 2nds 2 3rds and a 4th is six picks for 1. They would listen more than you think. And who secretly really wants to be in the Arch sweepstakes. 

[It’s time for a generational talent, blue chipper]

Ideally 3 2nds and 2 3rds maybe an 4th and keep pick 30.