502Buffs
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Posts posted by 502Buffs
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5 minutes ago, Commonsense said:
He is super athletic no one is disputing that, a link to how Petrino catered his play calling towards Lamar's legs doesn't exactly convince me that he can process defenses and carve them up with his arm.
Will you dispute that his athleticism helps receivers get open? I have better things to do than sit here all day and try to convince you guys he can play. I tried to show he has all the tools in my original post. I'm about to close this to replies as the points are getting watered down on both ends. You have a very valid point, but like all the QBs in this draft IMO, he's a project and needs to be coached. Anyone who thinks he's incapable of that has yet to prove that to me. This roster has too many holes now to trade up for a QB unless you guys are fine with sucking for another 2-5 years which I am not. Have a good day and go Bills!
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Just now, joesixpack said:
That's exactly what I mean.
If the guy knows he'll be tested IN ADVANCE and can't manage to do the work to score well on it (or is too stupid to realize he can) then I want him nowhere near this team.
I think he's been too busy trying to prove he's an NFL QB instead of a receiver (a position he's never played) by doing things like working on throwing mechanics, taking snaps under center, etc. to worry about some stupid math test GM's may or may not care about. I get why the score is concerning to you, but for the love of God, find another criticism to make because you've beaten this one into the ground.
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10 minutes ago, Commonsense said:
I'm willing to listen why it is a complex offense. What makes you say that? Do you know the reads and concepts they use? Do you know who did the playing? Did Jackson have checks or any ability to audible out of a play?
Everyone types down Erkardt-Perkins like that means anything. Greg Gabriel is in the know, teach me otherwise. I'm listening.
I will say I've never seen Jackson audible or check out of a play, but I think that's because there are so many reads in each play already. There is no doubt whoever is coaching him will need to tailor their offense around his strengths, like any QB in any offense, as Petrino has done.
2 minutes ago, joesixpack said:Because, every QB that people have cited played 30+ years ago.
Maybe you haven't noticed or you just don't understand the game is fundamentally different now than then. QBs need to process quickly. 13 ain't gonna cut it, sorry.So a 13 means he can't process reads quickly? Have you ever seen the kid play?
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1 minute ago, joesixpack said:
he scored a 13. I's day that's a fair indicator of being dumber than a box of rocks.
You've typed the number 13 at least 13 times in this post. It isn't lost on me I promise, but neither you or Gugny have been able to prove why that means he's a total idiot. When others have cited hall of fame QB's (who don't have the athletic tools of Lamar) who scored poorly on the test, all you say is THAT DOESN'T MATTER. Then you insult THEIR intelligence. Why? Who hurt you?
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6 minutes ago, Gugny said:
My observation has been that since 2000 - every single QB who has scored under 16 has not been a successful NFL starter. 100% of them over the past 18 seasons. Lamar Jackson scored a 13. A !@#$ing 13.
I've never said anything about a "southern slang," with regard to predicting the level of one's success as an NFL QB.
We don't put words in others' mouths around here.
I've been following the website for years. Just recently decided to start posting. I saw someone, thought it was you, criticize his interviewing skills. Eluding to your multiple "dumber than a box of rocks" accusations. I don't think it's fair to base that off of the wonderlic alone. It's a f'ing standardized test that has nothing to do with football. Out of all the 'unsuccessful' QB's in the past who scored lower than a 16, I guarantee you none of them have the tools or athleticism Lamar has. All I'm saying.
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15 minutes ago, Commonsense said:
Greg Gabriel "Louisville does not have a very complex offense"
i don't agree that it isn't a complex offense, I do agree, however with his point that Petrino hasn't exactly bred successful NFL QB's in the past.
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5 minutes ago, Gugny said:
Calling a stupid person stupid is a personal attack? Color me guilty, then.
That's brilliant. Let me guess ... you're the guy who, after a terrorist runs over a bunch of people with a car, says - "Well, I guess we should outlaw cars now!" uh hut, uh hut.
Your argument this entire time has been if a quarterback scores poorly on the wonderlic, or has a southern slang in interviews, he can't play quarterback. The hypocrisy is mind numbing.
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Just now, Gugny said:
I agree 100%. It absolutely does not matter.
Way to back up your point with examples. Lets bring in another Harvard QB! Isn't there a guy from Princeton in the draft?
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14 minutes ago, Gugny said:
If he was a CB, John, I'd be with you.
But he is (kind of) a QB. Bona fide morons don't make good NFL QBs.
Because he scored poorly on a 15 minute standardized test? With that logic let's make it a requirement that you have to post your SAT/ACT score with every reply. Doesn't matter that he ran the most complicated offense of all QB prospects (the same Erhardt/Perkins offense Daboll plans to run), ran the read option to perfection and has never had a disciplinary problem.
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I can't see a team like Cleveland giving up that much for a next year pick after going 0-16 and obviously having holes all over that roster.
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I hope to God this isn't true
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4 hours ago, Reed83HOF said:
well seeing his wonderlic score is lower than a janitor..hard pass
What does AROD have to do with this thread?
Kurt Warner bagged groceries
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8 hours ago, racketmaster said:
I agree that Jackson is underrated as a prospect, but I would not take him over any of the top 4 in this draft. A debate between Rudolph and Jackson is warranted as both seem to be a little underrated based on their college production (even though they have completely different styles). I think the lack of excitement surrounding Jackson on this board has to do with a few things:
(1) We are just coming off 3 years of Tyrod. I liked Tyrod but even I agreed we should move on from him after last season in order for this team to take the next step as a consistent Super Bowl contender. Tyrod could get a team to the playoffs but he was limited as a passer (lacked the necessary anticipation). And the feeling to want to go in a different direction are only natural. We see this all the time, when a team is poor defensively and has an offensive head coach, they typically gravitate toward a defensive minded HC and visa versa. So the feelings of wanting to try a different style of quarterback is definitely prevalent amongst Bills fans. Again, I enjoyed watching Tyrod and thought he was a solid quarterback but with the league passing rules the way it is better to have a passer than a quarterback that is too dependent on running.
(2) Tyrod and Jackson are similar players. No two players are exactly the same but it is only natural to make comparisons. That is how we try and rank and sort players. We try and identify who they play and act like and then slot them in our rankings accordingly. Again, no two players are the same but making comparisons can at least give you a rough idea of what to expect from the player upon entering the league. So who should Jackson be compared to? If we are trying to make a real NFL comparison then we are rather limited on options because of Jackson's freakish running ability. Tyrod Taylor is currently the most freakish of runners for a quarterback. He is not the most powerful and he may not even be the fastest (although he was/is a 4.5 guy at one point) but he has excellent instincts, great balance and is very elusive in the open field. I mean comparing Jackson to Tom Brady would just be ridiculous because they have completely different skill sets. Mike Vick is also a common comparison but as far as current NFL quarterbacks, there might not be a better comparison than Tyrod. That said, there are differences. Jackson is probably a 4.3 speed guy. He is a little less elusive (laterally) but more explosive and faster than Tyrod. With Jackson's speed you will see longer TD runs. As far as a passer, Jackson is also more developed than Tyrod was coming out of VA Tech (there offense was run oriented and much more simple). With that said, watching Jackson he appears to benefit from a Petrino offense that can scheme players to get open. More often than not Jackson appears to be given a combination read to one part of the field. If the 1-2 wrs are covered then his 3rd option is to take off and run (which he does well at). It is rare for me to see Jackson stand back and scan the entire field going through multiple progressions. Tyrod has developed over the years and he will stand back and scan the field (unfortunately he is lacking in anticipation and often misses windows where wrs are open). Now can Jackson be coached up to be more patient in the pocket. Sure, but it will take some time and it may never happen for him. He has often been compared to Taylor and Vick but he could also be compared to Randel El and T. Pryor who did not make it as NFL quarterbacks. Jackson's ceiling is probably Vick and his floor might be Pryor. Yes, they are all black quarterbacks but he is an elite runner and there are so few at the qb position. Most NFL running backs are black and when we see the odd white rb come out we tend to compare them to other white rbs and the same goes with wrs.
(3) Jackson will need to develop as a passer. Every qb coming out needs to improve but Jackson definitly will need to work on understanding coverages, going through his progressions, having patience and not running right away if his first 2 reads are covered. I believe Jackson can still be successful even if he does not develop too much as a passer. If he gets into the right system he can still be a threat on the ground and he is accurate enough and has a good enough arm to stretch the field vertically (Taylor could do this as well). So his legs can make him an effective player, even more so than Taylor. That said we have seen Taylor enough to know that NFL defenses are fast and the lbs and dbs hit hard. The longevity of a running qb will be limited if they do not develop as a passer because once they can no longer run away from defenders they need to rely more on their arm than their legs. Developing as a passer is harder than it seems. Running qbs have relied on their legs to bail them out in hs and college. It tends to be a learned default mode and limits the development as a passer.
(4) Intangibles/Leadership: This is more unknown as we do not get background reports or interview the quarterbacks. Some judgments can be made based on interviews and published scouting reports. Jackson seems like a good kid and a hard worker (similar to Tyrod). Watching him in interviews he is not particularly impressive as a speaker. If I am being honest someone like Rudolph is a much better communicator. This may not mean much to fans but if you listen to all the elite quarterbacks they almost always are good in interviews and most are exceptional. Quarterbacks need to be able to effectively communicate with their teammates and coaches. They need are seen as leaders and have to be verbal. Because my knowledge of Jackson as a person is limited, I don't want to make too much of this area but I want my quarterback to be able to stand up in front of the cameras like a confident leader and give smart and thoughtful answeres to questions. I feel like this might be important in the huddle showing command of the offense and effectively communicating it to his teammates.
(5) Maybe most importantly to me is I have never gotten the sense that the Bills are targeting Jackson. There seems to be little interest in Jackson from the Bills. Comments from Beane provide some evidence like when asked about Jackson Beane said "he deserves a chance to play quarterback". Not much there but certainly not a ringing endorsement for being a franchise qb. More importantly, there were never any ties to the Bills and Jackson back in the fall like there were to Darnold and the Bills. Anything that has tied the Bills to Jackson appear to be a smokescreen to me. Maybe the biggest thing to me is the Bills wanting to move on from Taylor. They tried pulling the plug on Taylor when we were still in the playoff race last season. This regime did not seem to believe in Taylor as a long term option or even as a bridge. And because Taylor and Jackson have similar styles, it would seem logical that if the Bills loved Jackson that they would keep Taylor for 1 more season to develop Jackson behind Taylor. What other qb would Jackson be better sutied to sit behind for a year than Taylor. The offenses they could run would be similar and Taylor has excellent work ethic and character (he is a true professional). The Bills would not have to move up in the draft to get him. Instead, the Bills moved on from Taylor and have been linked to trying to move up in the top 5 of the draft (if Bills wanted Jackson they would not have been pushing so hard to move up into the top 5). It's all possible it is a smokescreen and the Bills love Jackson, but I'd be surprised. And because the Bills don't appear to be in on Jackson, I've never really considered Jackson as a likely option.
All valid points/criticisms. Thanks for the reply. He is active in the Boynton Beach, FL community (his hometown) in mentoring at risk youth, He's a respectful guy in interviews. He's also certainly not afraid to be a vocal leader in the locker room, I don't think any prospect is ready to be a leader of an NFL team from day 1, I also don't think every elite professional athlete has always been outspoken or even great at interviews. As long as our guy is a hard worker and represents the team and community well, I'll cheer and support them.
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4 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:
I'm not just basing my opinion on a youtube highlights film. U ever seen Ej Manuel on youtube he looks pretty good. I actually watch full gms on draftbreakdown.
At the end of the day its all about preference i just want the QB that's best at finding open wrs consistently. Sounds simple right? In my opinion that's Mayfield. Not the rocket arm Allen or the if i didn't have my legs i won't be a first rd pk Jackson.
You just killed your argument by comparing Lamar Jackson tape to EJ Manual's. Wish some of you guys could get over stereotyping QB's, or at least not be so obvious about it. First everyone compares him to Tyrod now EJ...it makes no sense they're all completely different players. You're doing nothing but showing you don't watch any football outside of Bills games by making these comparisons which is fine, but it doesn't mean you can look at a QB and say it won't work based off of his appearance.
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16 hours ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:
Its not lazy i see him
#1 hold the ball to long way to much
#2 doesn't lead wrs consistently which leads to less yac opportunity for wrs.
#3 He's a Area Code Passer Makes Wrs work to hard because bad ball placement.
These are all major issues in Tyrod and Lamar gms.
Ask yourself this question strictly as a passer is Lamar worth the 12th overall pk?
Strictly as a passer no. If he can't run he's definitely not even a 1st rd pick, but he can. Also I disagree with the area code passer thing, that just makes no sense. Check out his passes on Youtube, a lot of his touchdown passes are in the perfect spot right on the money. Part of a WR getting open is that you have to throw them open.
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6 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:
Also he looks unnatural in the pocket his mechanics are like a high school QB. Doesn't take chances against safeties in the seem. He's an area code thrower makes his Wrs work very hard . Doesn't lead wrs open consistently . He's not Tyrod but he has alot of the same problems throwing the ball. Forget about Yac again for another 3yrs with this guy.
Have you watched any of his highlights? He's definitely not afraid to take chances. He just can also choose to take chances with his feet as well and is 100x better at it than Tyrod. I've said it before and I'll say it again, comparing Tyrod to Lamar is lazy, their games don't match up at all. You're free to disagree all I'm saying is check the tape.
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14 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:
You are right about the OL, it worked for Tyrod - I think he had the most time in the league to pass...I think that they want to move a bit away from the sandlot football and go "more traditional"; the drafting of Peterman makes it appear that way, hell even starting him over Tyrod I think points that way. The wild card/unknown in this is, can our new offensive staff develop a QB - they are all from the college ranks as well.
I ragged on the running game a little bit, because once a D stopped our running game, the game was over. Also without Tyrod back there as QB, I'm not sure how teams will play us when we rush, we did lose a running threat in the QB. I think we may take a step back there. Let's face it the entire offense is in transition this year....
No clue what is going to happen with QB, Darnold & Rosen are the top 2 passers and Mayfield isn't too far away from them. Only Mayfield & Rosen could start right away, Darnold needs time. Allen is interesting, he is either going top 5 or sliding, but he looks to be a good guy with a high ceiling who will get a chance, his release is really fast and that arm is amazing. He also needs some time. After those guys, personally I don't like the rest of the QBs - Rudolph maybe but it's meh at that point and I would probably look at Jackson over him. If it goes that far, it feels like yet another failure to grab a QB becuase we weren't bad enough to draft in a high enough position....
I'm pretty direct when I talk/write so I can easily come off like an !@#$ - it is almost never meant that way
I can't just buy that Darnold or Rosen are a better passer than Jackson. Darnold turned the ball over way more than Jackson and Rosen also proved to be just as inconsistent and, while still mobile, is obviously much less mobile than Jackson, who has freakish ball carrier vision. Allen I haven't seen play enough to be honest, but I find it hard to believe he is worththe project. Plenty of big arm QBs have come through the draft and done nothing. He couldn't even really win in whatever conference at Wyoming. I did however watch a lot of PAC-12 football just because I wanted to see these guys play and dear God are those defenses bad. I could definitely get excited about Mayfield and would even get excited about the other guys if they slid, but I truly believe now is not a time to gamble it all on trading up for a QB. The Jets set the price too high. Let them make that gamble their roster still looks worse than ours anyway. Hell I'd even be ok with Rudolph. I just can't be convinced any of these QBs are that far apart from each other, but I think Jackson makes the most sense for our team (ran the same Eackhardt-Perkins offense Daboll ran at Bama) and has the most potential to be special. Again, I'm a Louisville fan, I'm biased, but I wouldn't want us to take him if I didn't think it would work.
10 minutes ago, Lfod said:I was just reading through a lot of what you posted about the Mobile QB. It makes a lot of sense. Tyrod at first was leading a top scoring offense. As the years went on it seemed like those running lanes for him closed up and to resolve it they tried to mold him into a pocket passer and it just wasn't happening. Basically it confirmed what you posted was true because we all lived through it.
I don't know about Lamar Jackson. I don't follow college ball. I'm not sure if the mobile QB is a fair label for him or not. A person smarter then me would have to dig into his passing stats and sum it up.
I tried to if you read the original post, with video to back it up
not to say I'm smarter than you
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6 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:
There is so much wrong with this...
1.) Our OL is not that good, the right side especially - thankfully we matched Groy last year, so we at least have a center. Our depth is awful as well...
2.) The running game - aside from Shady who is 30 we have nothing. It is hot garbage as well - Tolbert last year and Chris Ivory this year? Nothing scares me there...
3.) Wilson also took an amazing Jimmy Graham and made him literally disappear from the face of the earth.
4.) Beane does not value this in a QB at all...
Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket.
You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket.
Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket.
Anybody we draft I believe is going to be a project. Jackson is capable of doing everything you just listed. I think you're assuming he's never going to feel comfortable in throwing in the pocket. P.S. this wasn't supposed to be a post about what we think McBeane is going to do. I'll leave you all to speculate that. I just think he is the best QB in this draft and is worth our consideration at 12 or 22. While I do think we need to draft a couple offensive lineman and probably a running back, don't act like our running game sucks. Losing Glenn and Wood hurts, but we have the capital to fill the holes. Which is also why we absolutely should not trade up to draft a quarterback. If we're going to throw someone in there with a bad offensive line like you say we have, I'd rather have someone mobile who can avoid hits.
14 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:There is so much wrong with this...
1.) Our OL is not that good, the right side especially - thankfully we matched Groy last year, so we at least have a center. Our depth is awful as well...
2.) The running game - aside from Shady who is 30 we have nothing. It is hot garbage as well - Tolbert last year and Chris Ivory this year? Nothing scares me there...
3.) Wilson also took an amazing Jimmy Graham and made him literally disappear from the face of the earth.
4.) Beane does not value this in a QB at all...
Brandon Beane: You know, you love arm strength. You can't teach arm strength. You can probably improve it a little bit... the accuracy is very important. You know, the guys are not as open in the pros as they are in college, and so, it will show if you've got a guy that's inaccurate from the pocket.
You have to have the leadership qualities. You've got to get guys to follow you. It is a quarterback league, and if you don't have the leadership in the other guys, that's 11 guys on the field -- if they're not following you, it just doesn't work. I've seen quarterbacks that have arm talent. We've known the names in this league -- I'm not going to call them out -- that have all the talent in the world and they've been first-round picks.... but they aren't leaders. You've got to start there. You want to be able to have a passer that can throw from the pocket. It's good to be mobile... we love that. And obviously, Tyrod brings that, and I think Peterman has some things like that. You know, all these guys have some different qualities... there's not one thing, but, at the end of the day, quarterbacks in the NFL must be able to throw from the pocket.
Brandon Beane: Yeah, I mean, calculated risk... whatever you want to call it. There are some times when they are going to have to thread the needle. It's third and long, and it's late in the game, and we've got to get this play, and they're going to put a spy on the quarterback or something like that... he's got to stand in there, trust his reads, trust his progressions... and sling it and make the throw. You have to do that. In college, you see a lot of running quarterbacks that can just make a play with their own. Everything breaks down and it becomes sandlot football, and you do see some plays in the NFL, but the speed is so different here. It takes a special player to do it, and to do it often... and again, the pounding that you take. We saw that in Carolina last year. Cam took more hits last year than he had in the previous years, so, it's a tough league. And again, I'll go back to it: You have to be able to throw from the pocket.
I didn't mean to come across as ****ty btw
Hey man, you stated your case well. I can take it. I probably did over-value our O-line, we have had one of the best rushing attacks the past 2-3 years, but losing Glenn and Wood hurts a lot. Which is why I, and the article you posted about Wilson, states you're better off having a running qb in these scenarios. In the process of his development there might be some bumps in the road, but I truly believe he will get better and better as a passer as he's shown through his college career.
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1 hour ago, Reed83HOF said:
I get where Polian was coming from, get the ball in your playmaker's hands and let him do what he does best; he's amazing and electrifying like that & can make guys miss. This allows him to make plays and use his tremendous athletic ability while not stunting the growth of the offense and possibly making it easier to defend. I honestly think he would be freaking amazing as a WR, look at what he can do on the field ! Plus he is a bit light in the frame department, I would rather have him getting hit by DBs than Watt, Suh and Clowney, et al.
I'm going to make a generalization here, but I think it is fairly accurate. I don't want him controlling the offense. I feel this way because thus far in most dynamic QBs careers their success has been that they are more athletically gifted then most others - it's much harder in the NFL - everyone is a great athlete at this level. This narrows the talent gap and they aren't nearly as dynamic as they were before. The key is for them to be able to overcome and outgrow this; they must develop as a passer. As an athlete, that is very challenging for many to overcome since they have to learn to do something new and not rely on their athletic gift which they have relied on their entire athletic life up to now.
In regards to Cam, he is a star player, but a good, not great QB. The Kardashians are stars(not sure why and I am not saying Cam is like them, but he is well known).
One of the absolute biggest, and one that gets swept under the rug because of Newton’s obvious drop in passing stats, is their quarterback being used as a runner. On designed runs for the quarterback that weren’t kneels or sneaks in 2015, Newton averaged 5.5 yards per carry (on 74 attempts) and scored eight touchdowns. In 2016, those designed runs netted the Panthers only 4.5 yards per carry (66 attempts) and five touchdowns. In 2017, he has only four carries for seven yards through three weeks. Put simply, the Panthers aren’t running with Cam Newton any more. And when they do, defenses have caught up schematically. They are no longer surprised when Jonathan Stewart turns into a lead blocker for Newton and aren’t leaving themselves a man short to stop the run.
With added defenders keen on paying attention to the run, though, it should theoretically leave Newton with more room to work in the passing game. This is the part of Newton’s regression that is easy to see in the box score. His completion percentage dropped 6.9 points from 2015 (59.8) to 2016 (52.9), and his adjusted completion percentage – which adds in drops and takes out throwaways, spikes, batted passes and passes where the QB was hit in his throwing motion – hasn’t fared any better. He went from 71.5 percent in 2015 to 65.4 percent, dead last in the NFL, in 2016.
Somewhere in the Panthers’ organization, they made a conscious effort to address that this offseason. With so many incomplete passes, it was difficult for the Panthers to sustain drives. So they drafted underneath passing threats in Christian McCaffrey and Curtis Samuel, and Newton currently has the second-highest completion percentage of his career (61.4).
The switch hasn’t fixed the problem, though — it’s actually made it worse. Newton’s average depth of target has dropped from 10.9 and 11.0 in 2015 and 2016 (two of the highest figures in the league) to 8.4 this year. And those underneath throws he’s now making were actually his weakest throws a season ago. In terms of true accuracy (putting the ball on a receiver’s frame), Newton was the third-most-inaccurate screen thrower, second-most-inaccurate when asked to lead a receiver horizontally across the field and second-most-inaccurate on throws one to five yards down the field in 2016. The offense now asks him to do more of that. Accuracy isn’t a static quantity, though; Newton doesn’t struggle everywhere. In fact, he was the second-most-accurate quarterback in the NFL when aiming at stationary or slowly moving receivers exploiting a hole in zone coverage down the field.Also I will do a LAMP, you look like you recently joined. If you look at what Beane looks for in a QB, Jackson does not appear to be that player...
I've seen interviews where Beane has talked about his ideal quarterback. Just because I recently joined this site doesn't mean I don't know what's going on. Beane strikes me as a guy that's open to new exciting ideas, especially if they don't cost a lot of capital. I get what you're saying about a dynamic qb running an offense. It's risky, but just as many if not more pocket passers fail at this as dynamic ones do. We already have a promising and a slightly maybe probably not promising pocket passer on the roster. Why not roll the dice on one of the most electrifying college football players in recent memory and see if he can develop into a pocket passer under these players and coaching staff?
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58 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:
Not a fan of sandlot football and that's what Dynamic QBs are. If you read what Beane wants in a a QB, it's not sandlot football.
Also this article actually sums up my feelings on Russell Wilson
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/12/13/russell-wilson-seattle-seahawks-mvp-darrell-bevell
This style of play is inherently inconsistent—especially if your base running game is as poor as Seattle’s has been. But when Wilson makes magic from all this, you see what you saw last Sunday night: The Seahawks prospering despite their offensive line being overmatched by an explosive Eagles defensive line. When Wilson isn’t making magic, you see an offense with few staple concepts to fall back on, and you get the Seahawks offense from the first half of the Week 12 Niners game (129 net yards) or from the second half of the Week 10 Cardinals game (97 yards), second half of the Week 5 Rams game (54 yards) or either half of the Week 1 Packers game (225 yards total).
Wilson contributes to these down stretches, too. Many times, when the Seahawks do try to find a rhythm with more traditional pass designs (their best come out of trips formations), Wilson, because he’s so accustomed to breaking down, fails to see them anyway. We always say: There’s no stat to capture throws that should be attempted but aren’t. You see these every game from Wilson.
Of course, some of the time when Wilson fails to attempt an open throw, he winds up making a spectacular, out-of-structure play (especially when you include his scrambling, which picks up late in close games). I’d love to know what Bevell and Pete Carroll say to their QB when they watch these plays on film. From what I hear, it’s mostly Good job, Russ. The veteran coaches by now understand what Wilson is.
Imagine if a 'dynamic' qb like Wilson had the offensive line and running game we do. Not saying Jackson is Wilson, but Wilson was also a 4th round pick. I'll take a risk on an unpredictable, inconsistent qb who has MVP potential. That's what Lamar is.
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28 minutes ago, BadLandsMeanie said:
Thanks 502!
Just trying to get BillsMafia on board! Notice how many of those throws are his 2nd or 3rd progressions.
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22 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:
I have nothing personal against Lamar at all, running/dynamic QBs are nothing special; they will never be a complete QB. If you want someone who is a dynamic runner and have electric moves when they have the ball in their hands, they should be a RB or WR. That is what those positions are supposed to do, a QB is like a point guard - distribute the ball to the playmakers...
This article is a bit old I admit, but it still rings true:
Peyton Manning, Colts QB: You hear a lot about how the scrambling quarterback is the new wave, with the pocket guy sort of fading out. To me the scrambling quarterback is a guy who, maybe, doesn't know what he's doing.
Bill Walsh, Genius: There just isn't a way to play the position as a pure runner. We've seen it attempted over the years, but never with great success. Steve Young was as great a runner as there has ever been in football but he didn't start to make a difference until he became a great passer as well.
John Lynch, Bucs safety: There've been a lot of tremendous athletes who didn't turn out to be such great QBs. That's because guys who run a lot may have some early success, but over time, they're a lot easier to stop.
Walsh: What happens is that sooner or later those openings to run aren't there anymore, and if you haven't developed as a passer, your wide receivers will just be standing around downfield watching their quarterback run around.
Billick: So your quarterback takes off and runs-great, you've got a 6-to-8-yard gain. But he missed the 40-yard TD pass to a guy standing alone in the end zone. The drop-back guy can make those big plays down the field. The negative side is that if he's not very mobile, there are limited ways to protect him. A stationary target can be pretty easy to knock down.
Manning: Look, we're all drop-back, pocket QBs. I mean, no one's running the option in the NFL. When Andy Reid calls a play for Donovan, he wants him to hit the pocket, go through his read progressions and then, only if things break down or nobody's open, does he say, "Okay, now go be an athlete and make something happen."
Manning: It's not who's the runner and who's the thrower. It's who's the complete quarterback.
http://www.espn.com/magazine/vol4no18qbdebate.html
Edit: RG3 if he developed as a passer, could still be in the league, his leg is shot and well he sure is no longer dynamic now. QBs need to be able to diagnose the play, pass the ball and deliver it with pin point accuracy in an extremely tight window...
Well put. It is true an organized play is only supposed to last about 6-12 seconds. He definitely does need to develop the quick decision making part of the game to become great, but his agility and ball carrier vision are something to marvel at. Doesn't mean he has to play another position.
2 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:For the defense....
The summary of this article based on everybody's collective opinion about him seems to be if he gets the right coaching and support he has super bowl winning, hall of fame potential...that's just what I'm seeing you all say!
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1 hour ago, PIZ said:
Are there any good interviews out there with Lamar Jackson? I've seen interviews with the top 4, but not Jackson or Rudolph; 2 guys talked a lot about on TBD.
1 hour ago, John from Riverside said:At least skycap has conviction about the player
You got nothing....you continue to have nothing.....and simply just react to other peoples posts without generating an opinion of your own
which makes you nothing
Every blog site needs a troll.
44 minutes ago, Reed83HOF said:Steve Young wasn't good until he was a Pocket Passer, Cam is overrated, Russell Wilson - meh...
Best was Randall Cunningham imo and it is honestly not a style of play I care for. QBs job is to read the D, call the plays and get the ball to the playmakers...
What if the QB is the best playmaker/runner on the field? Makes the job a lot easier.
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2 hours ago, BadLandsMeanie said:
I genuinely don't know.
But is there a highlight tape of him not running? It was mostly running. I would like to see a tape of him just executing an NFL style drive. Short and medium passes driving the team down the field please. That would give me a way better idea.
Good/Interesting film breakdown of Tremaine Edmunds By Chris Cooley
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
think he's gonna end up being the best player in this draft