Last Guy on the Bench
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Posts posted by Last Guy on the Bench
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Haha
@drewmagary: Know who the real losers are today? THE COLTS BECAUSE THEY SUCK A** http://t.co/KQ7u7VIyvg
Why your team sucks: Colts version
That was amazing. Too many great lines to even try to quote them all. One of the best Why Your Team Sucks ever. That dude is a genius. And the fan comments were even better.
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"We're going to the playoffs...and things like that. You can take it to the bank...M&T Bank!" - Rex Ryan
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I'm not saying it is, and I sure hope he proves the doubters like me wrong.
But how about all the rah rah yahoos are already sold on the guy being the Messiah based on his running around in preseason and completing a bunch of 10 yard passes?
Who are these yahoos?
I'm sure you could dig up one or two if you try hard enough. But most people seem to be excited about the potential they see in TT (and most of them are using a MUCH more sophisticated and nuanced lens on the different things he has done than you are), and totally willing to admit that nothing is proven yet at all.
Very few people are sure TT is going to be great or even good. Most of us acknowledge the huge gap between preseason games and the real thing, especially once opposing coaches have film. Most of us are very unsure as to how things will develop with TT. Nothing would surprise me really, good or bad. But we are excited and do see potential. That's all.
YOU'RE the one who is acting so sure about his future based on a handful of preseason plays.
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No. Read through his twitter feed (which I just did). Coaches, people in football ops, etc. means more than "some coaches." To be honest, I'm going to move on because I realize I'm arguing with people that think Whaley is a good gm. I think he's run of the mill -- good on defensive talent; lousy on the qb -- and also a bureaucratic infighter. He might be better at the player side of things than his predecessors, but that's not saying much. But if the team gets to 8-8 (the Bills real record last year if that Pats game had mattered at all), all of the sudden he's a great roster builder. I need to see a lot more than that before arriving at this conclusion. But this board features a lot of people who are inherently pro-management, so the conversation has predictably drifted to the point where it is now ("hard-headed" pro-Whaley folks snarking at the Jackson loyalists while also resorting to the cheapest trick in the book, blaming the media).
Anyway, I thought it was a dumb decision to cut Jackson for more than one reason. I'll leave it at that.
I think there are more than the two sides you are painting.
For example, I personally agree with you that it was a bad decision to cut Fred (also for lots of reasons), and in general I am fairly neutral wrt Whaley. I think he's made some good moves, but I don't think I have a complete enough picture of him (let alone a few winning seasons in the books) to really judge.
And I am a bit troubled to see this kind of stuff rearing its head after we heard about similar discord with Marrone.
However, I cannot believe that Whaley is cutting people without the general agreement of the coaching staff (or at least Rex). That would be insane. There might be disagreement within the coaching staff, but that would be normal. If Rex was either against this or uninformed about it, I would fire Whaley on the spot if I was Pegula. But I doubt that's what happened.
I am definitely not pro-management in general, but I also know that egos exist on all sides. Fred is wounded. He spouts off (as many of us might) in probably not the most mature way, even thought it's understandable. If I remember correctly he was a bit publicly disgruntled a few years back around his contract negotiations as well (or am I totally making that up?). He's a prideful guy. Whaley may not have been 100% candid with him. But I wouldn't take Fred's version as gospel any more than I'd take Whaley's or anyone else's.
To me it's a muddy picture made up of contradictory human beings.
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I'm seeing another geno smith. He's too unproven, stage is too big. You can tell in his interviews. 1TD, 4 picks kind of performance. And coaches making excuses
Wow. I see his interviews totally differently. He seems very grounded and confident in himself. And that's the way he plays too. He looks super calm on the field to me. Don't know where you get Geno Smith. Start from the fact that Geno's teammates don't seem to be in love with him, whereas Tyrod's gush about him (VaTech, Ravens, and now here). No guarantees TT is going to be good, but if he fails, I am very confident it won't be because the stage is too big for him. It will just be because he is not good enough.
I think EJ is working hard to become someone like that, but I don't think it's as natural to him. He often seems to be trying too hard to be the leader type. Not in a bad way, just in a less grounded/mature way than someone like TT. (And I like EJ and am hopeful, if unconvinced, about his future in the league.) Anyway, that's just my read on it. I could be way off.
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Leaving the semantics of the rogue issue aside (which is a minor point anyway), the issue seems to me to be that he didn't consilt the coaches. If a "football czar" with maximumum juice (like Donohoe) did it, it wouldn't be as big of an issue. But in this regime, Whaley doesn't appear to have that juice, judging from his near-death experience at the end of 2014 and the fact that the coach makes FAR more than him and is much more famous. That's at the root of this, I suspect. The fact that some in the organization on the other side of Whaley are going to the News to tell reporters about this is ... interesting. Remember that he did NOT get along with Marrone (who I still think was a decent coach who made a really bad decision on December 31), which also has me wondering. Everyone here hates Marrone, so that gets brushed off, but there's probably something there. The fact that Bucky Gleason (yes, I know ....) wrote two days ago that Whaley was lobbying for EJ also had me wondering.
I can't see any way Whaley is making any cuts (let alone Fred) without consulting the coaches. That would be career suicide, even for a Tsar, which he is not, as you point out. I think the theory about the other departments like marketing makes a lot more sense.
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No.... he isn't. He is Managing Partner and President. Football Operations are these folks:
David Wheat Chief Administrative Officer Scott Berchtold Sr. VP of Communications Marc Honan Sr. VP of Media & Content Jim Overdorf Sr. VP of Football Administration Gregg Brandon General Counsel Dan Evans VP of Information Technology Gretchen Geitter VP of Community Relations Andy Major VP Operations and Guest Experience Erica Muhleman VP Corporate Partnerships Bill Munson VP of Government Relations and External Affairs
Tying it all together, M&T called and b*tched at one of them for not giving them a heads up and the Ops dept feel Whaley made them look bad.
Now that actually makes sense, Yolo. Thanks.
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The logical guess is that football ops is Russ Brandon.
That's the only thing that makes sense to me, too.
If Brandon is leaking his unhappiness about this to Graham, seriously bad move (on Brandon's part). But it could also be a lower level employee who heard Brandon venting and then leaked to Graham. Who knows?
If Brandon is not the one who is upset, and the coaching stuff was on board, then who the hell are we talking about?
I really hope that football ops ARE Whaley and Ryan and this is wordplay nonsense.
(Edit: Yolo's theory below about all the other people with ops responsibilities (e.g., marketing, contracts) - not overall ops oversight - does make sense too.)
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Sorry if already posted. Did a search and didn't see it.
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And all that said, no one is going to beat the Fitzstyle..
Word. No one will ever come close to the master.
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He looks like a hop hop artist, not an NFL quarterback!
Nothing wrong with a "hop hop" artist, Wazzu. Welcome to the 21st century. I hope you enjoy it. -
I think he looks great.
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Way overboard IMO. And it bothers me to even complain about this site because it's so great.
Right on. This is by far the best football discussion board that I have seen. But the trend over the last year or two toward jamming all discussion into gigantic threads is a crazy overreaction to thread proliferation. It's nice not to have 20 threads on the same topic started in one day. But after a few days, there is no reason not to let people start new threads, especially because there is almost always a new angle or article or bit of info to add.
If this policy keeps going, I'm afraid a year from now there will only be one thread - topic: The Buffalo Bills. Anyone who starts a thread on any Bills related topic will have it closed immediately, as it is "already being discussed" in a previous thread.
Again, I say this with the greatest love and respect for everyone who spends time helping to run the best board on earth. But please use a lighter touch, guys.
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I think people are way overreacting to a handful of preseason throws. I strongly believe Taylor should be the starter, but we really don't know what we have in Taylor or Manuel, as they are both young and still developing. It would be crazy to throw away the one guy with an established record. Mediocre though that record might be, mediocre is better than terrible. And there is still a chance that TT and EJ might be terrible when all is said and done. I don't think so, and I certainly don't hope so, but it's worth a roster spot and a few million dollars to have some decent floor insurance.
Two other reasons Cassel might be worth a lot more than his preseason appearances would suggest:
1) These game defenses are vanilla. In practice, however, all the QBs have been seeing the full range of NFL formations, blitz packages, etc. So if Cassel is handling the real defenses in practice better than the other guys, that has to weigh more than a handful of throws against cardboard preseason defenses. Only the coaches know for sure.
2) We don't know what effect Cassel has on the young guys and on the QB room in general. Maybe he is a great mentor? Maybe he is a great teacher? Who knows? (The coaches, maybe, but not us.) I wouldn't be so quick to assume that TT's and EJ's development has nothing to do with Cassel. Maybe he is a critical factor even when he is not on the field. Then again, maybe not.
The point is that the coaches are working with a LOT more information than the fans or the media. And a lot more goes into the decision of who to start and who to keep on the roster than preseason stats. The stats aren't meaningless, but they are just a small piece of the picture.
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Good call, Gunner. TT showed a lot of pocket presence today. Just what I needed to see.
GO BILLS!!!
Exactly. EJ was terrific tonight, and my comfort level with him went way up (though I still don't fully trust him). But the kinds of plays he was making aren't consistently reproducible against good defenses game-planning against you, unless you are a QB god, which I don't think he is (yet, anyway). Not saying he wouldn't make any big plays like that - just not consistently against good defenses.
But the little things that Taylor was doing to convert third downs, keep drives going, work the team into scoring position, etc. ARE consistently reproducible by a good QB, which I think Taylor is. I think this has to be Taylor's team.
Again, though, three cheers for EJ and if he keeps on progressing, who knows where he ends up. He surely gunned some beauties today.
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I'm a little lost here. Why are media types assuming EJ Manuel is 3rd on the depth chart when the Bills put out their official depth chart and all 3 QBs were listed as starters?
Because he has apparently been getting way fewer snaps with the 1s than either TT or Cassel over the last few weeks of camp?
Some people (including Rex) have come up with somewhat tortured rationales for this, but I don't see any way to read it other than that he has been behind the other two in the coaches' minds. Doesn't mean he has been out of the competition, and doesn't mean things won't/can't change. But I think anyone who argues that he has been even with or ahead of the other two QBs is fooling themselves.
Credit to Rex, though for staying flexible and giving EJ a shot this weekend. I don't believe he had this in mind all along. Otherwise he would have kept the fairly even practice rotation he had earlier in the year.
If EJ can really pull it together to become a more confident, accurate, and comfortable QB, I will be surprised at this point but very, very happy. Hard not to root for the guy, even beyond the fact that he's a Buffalo Bill. But I'd say the same thing about TT, and I think he's got more of an NFL QB temperament and brain than EJ does. We'll see. Most exciting season (in advance) in recent memory!
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I don't have a huge problem with Simon's post, but I guess my one question is why he is so certain that Tyrod Taylor "will never be that guy." Taylor simply wasn't going to unseat Flacco in Baltimore, so he really hasn't had a chance. I don't know what body of work in the NFL we can look to, to make the determination that he absolutely couldn't be the Bills' QB for the next 5-6 years.
I'd love it if the Bills went with a Taylor-backed-up-by-EJ lineup to start the season.
I agree. Taylor doesn't have the prototypical size and cannon, but it seems like he has enough tools to succeed at a high level, IF he has the other qualities that a Drew Brees or Russell Wilson has. And that we just don't know either way.
I have been slow to judge EJ too harshly, but I definitely think the Bills should start Taylor.
Maybe it's the hangover from watching that Three for the Show vid on TT, or maybe it is indeed shiny new toy syndrome, but TT has a presence that I don't think EJ has. EJ is a great guy with lots of charisma, but I get the feeling sometimes that he is trying too hard to be "the guy" or "the leader" - he has an image in his head that isn't totally natural to him. And it shows in the pocket. He never really looks comfortable to me (even though he does seem a bit more at ease at the end of the game). I don't think TT is trying to be something. I think he just is "the guy" and I think teammates feel it. Also, he looks super comfortable in games to me - relaxed, like things are moving more slowly and clearly for him than everyone else.
I've been deluded before, but I am way in Taylor's corner right now, though I will cheer like crazy for whomever they select as the starter.
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I appreciate the OPs time and effort in going back through the plays. I have watched them back again and compared what I see to what the OP sees and I have to say I still don't entirely agree with his conclusions and I think there are still 3 maybe 4 plays that I consider he has gone first read then run.... It is, of course, simply impossible for us to know when we don't have the play calls and the route concepts in front of us and I think the OP's interpretations of what he is seeing are an entirely valid interpretation although I don't necessarily agree with them.
I still feel I need to see more of him hanging in there and getting to his 2nd and 3rd guy. If he can show something that makes me more comfortable that he can on Thursday (and again it will be impossible to absolutely know for sure) then I will be calling for him to be named the starting Quarterback after Thursday's game.
I've been optimistic all summer of making the play-offs based on the idea of a Quarterback just being an accurate distributor and game manager.... if Tyrod Taylor means we have a Quarterback who is in himself a weapon to add to all our other offensive weapons and this defense? We might be Superbowl contenders. I'm trying not to get too carried away but the possibilities are mouthwatering.
Thanks. I'd be curious to hear more about the 3 or 4 plays you saw as first read then run. Not to argue - just for my own learning.
I agree that all of these comments are interpretations of something that's very hard to decode without extensive technical football knowledge (which I don't have) and specific knowledge of the team's goals and tactics on a given play (which none of us has). Basically, I just watched the guy's head to see what he was apparently looking at. Not too sophisticated as analyses go.
Also, I do think there is a good argument to be made that even if Taylor is looking at a few areas of the field before taking off, he might be giving up on them too quickly - maybe he needs more patience, or maybe he needs to be willing to throw more often to WRs that aren't wide open? I don't know.
What makes me optimistic is that: a) he still doesn't have much NFL playing time, so he should have some good room to grow - whatever his ceiling is, he can't possibly have hit it yet; and b) there's a spark to the way he plays that will energize both the team and the fans - whether that spark translates into winning, we'll see.
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I want to upload a photo from my PC but it doesn't let me.
Ah, you're right, Fixxxer. I was watching plays on the condensed version, which only shows the original angle without the replay (usually). But I just went back and watched the full broadcast version of that play. When they show the replay, it's from behind the play, not on the sideline. And you're absolutely right - you can see Gray wide open right near the end zone and he is turned toward TT and looking at him. Would have been an easy throw and waltz into the the end zone for the TD. When Taylor starts running Gray then turns away and runs into the end zone, which is all I could see from the original angle.
Anyway, my main point isn't that Taylor is reading everything well - too early to say, and not enough info anyway. He might be missing all sorts of things downfield, he might be too hesitant to throw guys open, and/or he might be too impatient. The only thing I could tell for sure in the little breakdown that I did was that he was not just making one read and then taking off. He is definitely going through progressions regularly. How well he is doing so is another question.
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Thanks for the post, OP. Cheers.
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Great post and thanks for the time you took. That was was terrific.
On the first scramble/run, TT said that the Panthers took away Robert Woods or knocked him out of his route, which was his read so he started running.
Interesting. That makes sense. Just went back and looked. Woods goes in motion to the left, then at the snap cuts back to the right behind the LOS and then starts running along the right LOS sort of in parallel to TT's rollout. But the LB gets on Woods right away and kind of wraps his arms around him (could have called holding). So Woods has no chance for a reception let alone any RAC. However, Woods being Woods, when he sees that TT is going to run it, he starts blocking the LB instead of trying to escape him and drives the guy 10 yards downfield, helping extend TT's run considerably.
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He's fun to watch, but come regular season when coaches can game plan for him, he'll be shut down. He's also small; he'll last about 5-6 games.
Great analysis. Guess we'll see.
Much appreciated. I'm glad you had the same opinion of the horse collar play. People kept saying he had gray open but I didn't think gray turned his head or body until after TT was past the LOS running. To me it looked like he was definitely looking to throw but no one was open or ready for a pass. But I don't have a way to replay the game, so I don't know if I am just misremembering this play or what.
Good memory. Just went back and looked. It's kind of hard to tell, because Gray runs upfield offscreen right away. But TT is definitely looking his direction when he hesitates at the LOS, and right toward the end of the play when Gray comes back into view he is in the end zone running away from TT with his back to him. So unless Gray had been open and facing TT earlier when he was offscreen, TT had no chance to throw to him. The ball would have hit Gray in the back of the head.
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I was curious about the impression a lot of people seem to have that Taylor makes one read and if he doesn't like it takes off out of the pocket. So I went back and watched each of his passing or running plays in the game several times, paying particular attention to his line of sight - what he was looking at when. I didn't find the one read and run pattern AT ALL. Here is my breakdown of each of his passing and running plays in the game. Sorry it's so long, but I got into it.
First Drive
1st & 10, Bills 45 – Play action, immediately rolls out to the right – looks either designed or like he decided to keep it right away because he had so much room to run on that side. Glances up the right side of the field a little bit while he’s running, but would never have had time to set his feet anyway because the LDE was all over him. He just had to sprint past the dude. Picked up 10 yards.
1st & 10 Carolina 45 – Under center, stays in pocket, looks to the right and center then launches it to Goodwin going deep down the left sideline - incomplete. Great read. Goodwin could have caught it, though Taylor could have placed it inside a little more to make it easier. Definitely not his first read, unless he was purposely looking everyone off. Either way, not a stare and throw at all.
2nd & 10 Carolina 45 – Shotgun, fakes the handoff, immediately rolls to the right – not under pressure, this is designed. Does seem to hesitate while he looks up the field a little, clearly has the option to throw, but keeps it and runs after a brief scan. Seems to me that on this kind of play, he is never going to be looking way over to the left anyway, because it would be against the grain of the way he is running. I don’t think it is exactly first read and run, though, either. He is not in the pocket. He seems to be scanning the half of the field he is running toward and has the option to toss it to someone or keep it. He keeps it to good effect. Picks up about 18 yards (plus an additional penalty tacked on).
2nd & 10, Carolina 12 – Under center, drops straight back, looks downfield to the right, then looks over to the right flat at Williams swinging out of the backfield, then looks straight down the center of the field. Sees a big hole open up in front of him and takes off running, hesitates before crossing the LOS and either thinks about throwing or fakes it to buy himself more space to run. Gains 9 yards (plus horse collar penalty tacked on). Definitely not a one read play – he looked at three distinct places on the field before he took off.
Second Drive
2nd & 8, Bills 12 – Under center, drops straight back, looks left, sees Goodwin open 6 yards in front of the LOS and throws it to him, Goodwin cuts back across the middle of the field and gains 28 yards. This was a first read, but the read was open so he threw it. Crisp throw.
3rd & 4, Bills 46 – Shotgun, drops straight back, very quick glance to the right, then looks downfield middle. In the meantime, the RDE has blown by Darryl Johnson (listed as a guard, but playing left tackle here) and is about to take Taylor’s head off when Taylor makes his most ridiculous move of the night. He takes a quick step to the right like he is running away from him then does a supernaturally quick U-turn and runs back to the left while the RDE dives helplessly trying to tackle the empty space where Taylor used to be. Taylor has just purchased himself a vast amount of real estate as the defense has been pulled heavily to the right. He could clearly run it for a good gain, but keeps his head up and sees Williams about 12 yards in front of him and coolly feathers it to him. Williams chugs for another 10 yards before he’s knocked out of bounds. 13 yard gain (if that math seems strange, it’s because Taylor was way behind the line when he tossed it the 12 yards to Williams).
1st & 10, Carolina 41 – Play action, rolls to the right. He clearly checks out Hogan running a pattern down the right sideline first. Then he swings his head toward the center and is looking at Gray who has run a short pattern from the right TE position and Mulligan who has run a deeper pattern crossing the field from the left TE position. Taylor obviously doesn’t like what he sees, but he takes one more hesitation right before the LOS (either for a fake or because he is still looking for somewhere to throw) then runs across the line and slides for a gain of four. As on most previous plays, he checks out different areas of the field quite quickly, so if you don’t look carefully, it can seem like he has a quick trigger to run, but he is definitely not just looking at one receiver and then going.
3rd & 5, Carolina 36 – Shotgun, looks immediately to the left where Brown has swung out into the flat. Throws it to him – soft throw that lets him keep his momentum. Brown runs for the first down and a yard or two extra.
2nd & 3, Carolina 23 – Play action, bootleg to the left. This is an immediate bootleg, clearly a called play. He is not even looking downfield, just trying to get the first down. This is that crazy play where the DB hustles up in run support and dives at Taylor’s legs, knocking him off balance and seemingly stopping him two yards short. But as Taylor is falling he does a little hop back to plant his feet then dives forward for two yards and the first down before falling out of bounds. This dude is fun to watch.
1st & 10, Carolina 20 – Shotgun, drops back a few yards, looks downfield middle, then looks left and throws to Deonte Thompson running straight down the sideline. Thompson has his man beat by a step. Ball hits his fingertips in the endzone, but he can’t pull it in. Good read, pretty good throw. No chance for an int. Could have been caught, though it would have been a nice catch. Taylor holds his head in frustration.
Third Drive
1st & 10, Carolina 46 – Shotgun, looks downfield middle, seems to glance very quickly to the short left as well, then pivots to the right and tosses it to Brown sidling out into the flat. The Panthers respond quickly and Brown gets nailed behind the LOS. Not sure this was a great decision, but it definitely wasn’t the first read. Hogan was open for at least a few yard gain in the left middle (I think this is where Taylor’s quick glance to the left went), but Brown did seem to have some space in front of him to work with – it just disappeared very quickly, so I can see why Taylor threw it there. Either way, he was scanning the field, again, before throwing to Brown.
2nd and 11, Carolina 47 – Shotgun, stays calm in a nice pocket, looks downfield right, then downfield middle, then short middle where he throws to Hogan a couple of yards in front of the LOS, Hogan runs laterally and is tackled for a short gain. Taylor held the ball in the pocket for four seconds before dumping it to Hogan. He looked right and middle, but never looked left. If he had, he would have seen Brown swinging out of the backfield with MILES of space in front of him. Brown would have been off to the races. The slot DB was at least 10 yards away from him, and I think that’s the only guy he would have had to beat for a huge gain. Too bad.
3rd & 8, Carolina 44 – Shotgun, drops back a couple extra yards, looking downfield left. Again, Darryl Johnson at LT gets beat on the edge, and the RDE is on Taylor within two seconds. Taylor quickly steps up into the pocket. The pocket is now pretty clean, due to the step up and to the fact that Johnson has subtly hooked his dude from behind and then used his momentum to push him to the ground. Taylor could, at this point, have settled in the pocket for a little longer, but he sees a lot of space off to the left and he heads for it quickly. As soon as he is clear of the original pressure, his head is up and he is looking downfield left again, though this time more toward the middle than the sideline. It’s only after taking a measured, jogging look downfield that he makes the decision to hit full speed and cross the LOS. Picks up about 5 yards.
4th & 3, Carolina 39 – Shotgun, steps back, sits in the pocket calmly, very quick glance right then looks over to Thompson running down the left sideline again. Lofts it toward him quickly (he only held the ball for two seconds) and overthrows him by a couple of yards. Thompson had half a step on his man, but he seemed to me to slow a bit as he looked up for the ball. Wasn’t a great throw, landed just out of bounds. Thompson could have stayed at full speed and maybe given himself a shot. But it would have to have been a great catch – not sure anyone would have gotten to it. Still, a reasonable decision, though not high percentage. Just not a great throw.
Summary
Overall, a few of the times he “left the pocket” early seemed like designed rollouts – don’t think there was supposed to be a pocket. At other times, Taylor does like to buy himself some time and space by slipping out of the pocket – and perhaps he does do this too early at times. Nevertheless, at no time was he just making one read and then taking off and running. He always looked at at least 2 or 3 sections of the field (except when he threw to his first read), and he always had his head up when running. He also often hesitated before crossing the LOS, trying to find someone to throw to downfield.
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Tarpley looks the part out there. He's instinctive in space and has the long arms and I don't know how he will be against the run but at least he's wide shouldered for filling the run gaps. Looks like a modern ILB for the passing era. Very interested to see him the rest of preseason.
Yep, he caught my eye the other night, and I think someone on MMQB said the same thing.
Would you Choose 4 SB losses vs. 1 SB win?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Totally agree. And I wasn't a kid at that time.
I measure it by the amount of joy a team gives me. Not some frat boy ideology that there is one winner and 31 losers every year. Would I like the Bills to have won one of those Super Bowls? Sure. But that ride had a lot more peak moments than a boring team that manages to string together a one year Super Bowl run.
Of course at this point, after 15 years where the moments of joy have been few and far between, I'd take that one year Super Bowl run in a heartbeat.