Bocephuz
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Posts posted by Bocephuz
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8 minutes ago, billieve420 said:
If Terry ever decides to let McDermott go. Hopefully they look to pair up Allen with offensive minded head coach. The play calling leaves a lot to be desired. Allen has to be better no doubt. That was one of the worst passing showings I have ever seen outside of a younger player breaking into the league.
You look at Andy Reid and the consistency they have there... makes you wonder
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11 hours ago, Big Blitz said:
Confirms what I saw.
However, the issues with blitz pickups and pre snap recognition have me asking about how well McGovern is doing with this part of the game.
Great point about McGovern.. i hadn't thought of that angle
9 hours ago, Old Coot said:Great contribution to the forum. Thanks for doing this.
Based on what you saw, does it appear that, on the unsuccessful passing plays, Josh locks onto a receiver early in the play (maybe the receiver running a mid to deep pattern) or does he seem to go through his reads?
For this game more often than not he locked onto his primary read and rarely went through his progressions. He's obviously demonstrated that he is capable of going through his progressions in the past.. so hopefully it was just a momentary lapse of reason. we will see
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1 hour ago, Rich Stadium Original said:
Thanks for the intelligent reply..as I stated in the original post, have not had the benefit of seeing the whole field on the live broadcast presentation. I'm not sure what the NFL uses as its criterion for a pressure..i.e. if the qb bails early and "induces" pressure does it still count AS a pressure.
To be honest.. I'm not sure what the NFL criteria for "pressure" is. I doubt they are that nuanced.. i would guess if the qb has a rusher in his face then that is what they count.
57 minutes ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:Idk Allen’s entire career has a couple of games like this per year when teams can bring heat and he gets uncomfortable and presses and starts missing throws…sometimes the defense is stout enough where we have a shot late and we win it anyway (this game was pretty close to that) so they don’t stand out as much. Sometimes it’s an all around stinker that everyone remembers.
he may have been injured against Baltimore but idk that it led to unexpected bad play the next week
josh usually has a few games like this every year. in the past he usually comes back more focused the next week. lets hope he can do that again
46 minutes ago, DabillsDaBillsDaBills said:I'm not sure how this play would be an error by the QB? He makes a great throw on 3nd and 13 and Kincaid dropped it (or maybe he caught it and McD messed up by not challenging it).
Unless you're talking about a different play
the error is he had an easy completion to try and move the chains
but he instead chose to go for the play with greater degree of difficulty.. and I don't believe Kincaid dropped it. He was just out of bounds. Also in my opinion that challenge would have gone against the Bills. To me he did not have control when he went out of bounds.
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4 minutes ago, Sojourner said:
I’ve had it earlier on occasion than the 24 hours after game but it’s still not even available for me yet either.
NFL+ Premium here.
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9 minutes ago, Rich Stadium Original said:
Granted I may not have seen the all 22 perspective, and I don't think Allen played a great game. but I do have to take some issues with your conclusions.
There is no such thing as a "perceived pressure"...and according to NFL stats on ESPN.com last night, Allen was under pressure on 45% of his drop backs..a ridiculous number. If a Blitzer comes in unblocked, that's not a perceived pressure, that's an actual pressure.
And, he wasn't bailing early of the pocket to the right..he was going through his reads and NOBODY WAS OPEN...the bail to the right was in response to a pocket that was beginning to collapse, and he was trying to bide time hoping someone would break open...and they usually didnt.
Quarterbacks are responsible for adjusting to and beating the unblocked extra blitzer or "free man". It is the QB job to identify and attack the "void" left by the blitzer.. whether that's throwing in the area voided by the blitzer, calling in an RB or TE to chip .. or taking off to run. If the QB does not do any of these things to counter the blitz by default the error is on the QB for lack of awareness.
If you read my analysis .. I do say there there were several plays where he hit his drop and nobody was open or had separation.. and he therefore bailed to buy time. For those plays I did not give him an Unforced Error Grade.
On the other hand.. there were multiple easy button throws he could have executed within the pocket on time .. but he chose to bail out of the pocket to try and make the big play. When he incorrectly chooses to bail out of the pocket and gets" pressured" that is his fault and to me those are "perceived pressures"
I would also respectfully say if you haven't watched the All 22 and are just watching the broadcast view .. it can be very difficult to see all of these factors clearly.
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1 hour ago, GoBills808 said:
its not available yet?
not sure what you're referring to. I am an NFL + Premium subscriber and the All 22 was available around noon
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49 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:
Now let’s do coach staff unforced errors
Not making it crystal clear to Josh that we didn't need to throw deep on the last series was a big unforced error for Brady and McD
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All 22 from NFL+. Mainly sideline view do i can se WRs
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I watched every passing down snap on NFL + Premium All 22 to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays).
UNFORCED ERROR = Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision
OLINEMAN BEATEN = O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block
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OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS
DAWKINS - 1
EDWARDS - 1
MCGOVERN - 0
ANDERSON - 0
TORRENCE - 0
BROWN - 2
-DAWKINS - Had a little trouble with the bull rush ( injury affecting him? ) but generally held up well ( except for last play of game unfortunately)
- EDWARDS - Generally solid.. was only cleanly beaten once to my eye.
- MCGOVERN - Very good game. Stout in pass protect. did not give up a pressure.
- TORRENCE - Only one bad rep from what I saw.
- BROWN - had a questionable false start earlier in the game (bad call IMO). He and Edwards were both beaten on same rep late game.
Sig Plays
q1: UE1 - Josh has time... overthrows wide open Mack Hollins (could Hollins have tracked it better.. sure... could Allen have made a much better throw.. yes)
q1 -UE2 Josh has enough time.. misses deep out to Coleman on sideline
Q2 - UE 3 - Josh scrambles.. has easy button throw to open #15 .. ignores that and tries to throw cross body back over middle to Hollins. Incomplete
Q2 - UE 4 - Allen has easy button throw to open Samuel on shallow crosser but ignores that and throws deep to Kincaid who catches but is OOB
Q2 - UE 5 - Has clean pocket .. underthrows to wide open Kincaid who has beat the defense and would have likely scored td with accurate throw
Q4 - UE6 - Josh locks onto primary target on left side and does not see the free blitzer on his right until too late. If he sees it he can hit Johnson in the flat to fill the void.. instead he doesn't .. and is hit and throws it away
Q4 - O Line is beaten - Edwards beaten to inside/ Brown beaten to inside Josh scrambles to avoid takes nasty hit and leaves game
Q4 - UE 7 -Last series.. has time to throw.. has open Shavers on shallow crosser.. ignores that and forces deep sideline back shoulder to Coleman ( OPI)
Q4 - UE 8 - Passes up open Kincaid on crosser and overthrows Hollins deep left
Q4 - O Line beaten - Josh has open Samuel in middle of field but Dawkins guy bull rushes and hits Josh just as he is throwing
OL SUMMARY : The O Line was not the issue this game. For the most part.. Josh had fairly clean pockets. Most of the pressure he was under was self inflicted.
QB UNFORCED ERRORS: Josh had 8 unforced errors this game. In all the games I have graded this is one of the worst grades for #17. The line performed quite well ..most the perceived "pressure" was due to either.. 1.) not seeing the free man coming on a blitz and throwing to the void 2.) no separation from WR when he hit his drop so he bailed right/ or... 3.) He had open easy button throws that he passed up to try to go for homerun play. The most disturbing thing I saw was that more often than not Josh was locked onto his primary target and rarely went through his progressions. As previously stated there were also too many plays were WRs did not get separation. That said there several easy button throws where guys were open that Josh chose to ignore.. and the results were evident. Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially. In this case.. Josh' 8 unforced errors were a material factor in the Bills not winning this game.
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On 10/2/2024 at 2:44 AM, HIT BY SPIKES said:
Any theory as to what is happening with Torrence this year?
I was excited when we drafted him reasonably early.
I was impressed with his play last year as a rookie.
However, he certainly has taken a step back this year when he should be improving after a year of NFL diet, weight room, video watching and coaching.
it doesnt appear to be a strength issue. He is quite powerful in run blocking and i don't believe i've seen him bull rushed. He's not very good with his hands and has trouble moving laterally. I think its a technique issue.. and maybe an awareness issue.
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On 10/1/2024 at 10:19 PM, DapperCam said:
I would give Dawkins a -1 for his blocking on the trick play. He missed the initial block because he ran into Kincaid, and then he missed a second opportunity to get a piece of Van Noy after the play was already broken. Two whiffs on one play.
that playcall was so out of the ordinary and in my judgement did not count as a standard pass blocking play to be graded. no one on the OL was graded on that play accordingly
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11 hours ago, Generic_Bills_Fan said:
Ravens are consistently one of the dirtiest teams I’ve ever seen
Humphrey eyepoke exh A
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3 minutes ago, SoonerBillsFan said:
Browns issues are of his own making. He mouthed off to KVO in the first quarter and KVO responded with "Ok" to him. I remember seeing it. After that KVO went flat off.
yeah.. i recall that now. KVO went ballistic on him after that.
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18 minutes ago, Simon said:
I thought he was doing it well before the 3rd qrtr.
It was clear he didn't trust his OLine throughout much of the game.
Josh rarely climbs the pocket and hangs in to deliver a throw while taking a hit. He is capable of doing it ( think Jacksonville game throw to Robert Foster). Its certainly not a toughness issue... but it would be nice if he occasionally climbed the pocket ( when its there) instead of bailing.
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in the past i used to do lengthy in depth posts with gifs.. don't have time for that nowadays. I also did not count the Mitch TurdBiscuit reps.
I watched every passing snap to evaluate pass blocking performance as well as Josh Allen unforced errors committed (PASS BLOCKING ONLY EVALUATED.. did not evaluate running plays).
UNFORCED ERROR = Allen has time to throw, wr is open and he misses throw.. or.. Allen makes poor unforced decision
OLINEMAN BEATEN = O lineman clearly loses his one on one matchup... or.. clearly misreads stunt/combo block
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OLINEMAN BEATEN STATS
DAWKINS - 0
EDWARDS - 2
MCGOVERN - 1
ANDERSON - 1
TORRENCE - 3
BROWN - 2
DAVIS - 1
-DAWKINS - The only clean performance. Had a few dominant reps.
- EDWARDS - Was beaten twice. Both times DE got around his left side.
- MCGOVERN - Was injured briefly but stepped up and came back in. He was cleanly beaten on one play.. but other than that held up reasonably well.
- ANDERSON - Came in at C for a few reps .. had a bad shotgun snap that I am counting as a bad rep.
- TORRENCE - His PFF low grade seems justified. Torrence led the OL in bad reps with 3. He was cleanly beaten one on one several times.. and also had a few reps where he looked lost and was trying to find someone to block. He started out strong last year but his pass protect quality has slipped and he is close to becoming a liability in pass pro.
- BROWN - Brown has certainly improved from last year.. .but he was beaten one on one on a couple of nifty moves by the D end. Good news is he seems to have fixed the issue he had last few years where DE's would blow right by him on the outside with speed. For both moves that beat him yesterday you have to tip your hat to the DE.
- DAVIS - imn q4 Davis was in for pass pro in the shotgun but he lined up way too close to line of scrimmage. When ball was snapped he couldn't get out to block the LDE in time and Allen was flushed immediately.
OL SUMMARY : This was a rough game for the O Line. Baltimore did a few twist stunts.. but mostly they just beat the Bills O linemen with technique one on one. Josh' scrambling ability saved 3 or 4 sacks. The Guards ( Edwards and particularly Torrence) really struggled in one on one on several reps .. and it seemed like there was a bit of confusion on picking up stunts.
QB UNFORCED ERRORS: Josh had 3 unforced errors by my count where he had time but made bad decisions. For example .. in q3 he had a clean pocket to step into but he bailed right too early. This seems to be a pattern for Josh ( understandably so). If the o line is shaky early.. Josh gets a little antsy later in the game and bails from the pocket occaisonally when he doesn't need to. It seemed like even when Josh did have time .. .the receivers rarely had any separation ( Kincaid being the exception). Based on my history of doing this kind of analysis when a qb has 5 or more unforced errors the chances of his team winning decrease materially. In this case.. Josh actually played a pretty clean game with 3 unforced errors.
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just say "No" to Novak
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16 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:
I didn't want to use the word "ghosts" because of the famous Darnold comment but you're right and that is exactly what it is. In fact I've seen it a lot even with the best QB's. Go back and watch Mahomes in the TB Super Bowl. There are times he bails from the pocket when he doesn't have to but he was under a lot of pressure. And I use Mahomes here as I have immense respect for him.
Happens to the best of them.. especially guys like Mahomes and Allen who are super athletes and thrive when improvising. Comes back to bite em in the ass sometimes tho
14 minutes ago, PBF81 said:Size & types of players rushing?
i.e., DBs rather than LBs maybe. I haven't spent any time looking whatsoever other than superficially.
It seems to be delayed blitzes I've seen have typically been LBs or DBs.... and they either come from the outside edge... or they hide behind the Dline and then sneak in through the A or B gap
15 minutes ago, Mango said:I always look forward to these. Thank you!
My pleasure.. hopefully they provide some context
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2 minutes ago, CincyBillsFan said:
Another point about pressure and it's effect that is hard to quantify but I suspect is very important is the impact of repeated QB pressures on those moments when there isn't much pressure on the QB. According to the stats I've seen Allen was pressured on 41% of his drop backs which is very high. This will have a cumulative impact on how a QB reacts on pass plays when the rush isn't as effective and he has time.
Over the years I've seen many elite QB's get "rattled" a bit by continuous pressure and not make the best decisions or throws when their pass protection did hold up. After a DT breaks free up the gut and is in your face you become less willing to move up in the pocket because you no longer trust that the pocket will hold up. And when you're being harassed form one side with almost immediate pressure you might jump out of the pocket on plays where the pressure isn't immediate.
I think one of the keys to Allen's amazing ability to avoid sacks is that he anticipates the pass rush very well. But this will also mean he will be wrong sometimes and his anticipation will betray him and he'll bail to soon from the pocket. But against NE there are a lot of NFL QB's who would have been sacked at least 4 or 5 more times then Allen did.
I guess what I'm saying is that the price you pay when your QB is under constant pressure is that they'll bail from the pocket to soon or throw the ball into the ground on pays where they did have time & opportunity to move up in the pocket. Not sure ho you would quantitate this factor but it's real.
I address this in my post above.
this is a good point.. hate to admit it .. but sometimes Allen "sees ghosts" a al Zach Wilson. the cumulative effect of bad pass pro from earlier in a game..or .. previous games does creep in
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Just now, CincyBillsFan said:
I question this conclusion. My sense watching the game was that Allen was put under much more serious pressure on a lot more plays then Jones saw. Jones was able to "climb the pocket" largely because there was an intact pocket to climb. Some of Allen's worst pressure came up the gut leaving little room to climb the pocket.
I think NE's pass rush was far more effective then the Bills so I'm wondering how you can compare the reactions of the two QB's.
There were some plays where Morse and Torrance failed.. and there was no pocket to climb. However.. I listed several specific plays where Allen had a chance to climb the pocket in my significant plays listing. From the All 22 and end zone view it is relatively easy to see
Just now, Bocephuz said:There were some plays where Morse and Torrance failed.. and there was no pocket to climb. However.. I listed several specific plays where Allen had a chance to climb the pocket in my significant plays listing. From the All 22 and end zone view it is relatively easy to see
q1 -UE2 - Delayed blitz.. Allen has Shakir for quick hitter blitz beater but unnecessarily bails out of the pocket resulting in incompletion
q2 -UE3 - Allen has time.. has open Knox but decides to bail from clean pocket ( instead of climbing the pocket) and incomplete pass to Davis in end zone. Knox clearly pissed after the play
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1 hour ago, BillsfaninCT said:
the plays are there to be made but the coaching isn't EFFECTING JOSH'S DECISIONS. nobody demonstrating Josh "can't see them open" but constantly show him choosing a harder play. Not a lot of reasons for picking a low percentage play over a high percentage play on early downs, but he needs to be effected in such a way that he can do both, learn when to do which, and also be happy........ good freaking luck. the mental part of the game is harder for physically gifted people because you can just blast your way through a lot of stuff.... like a once in a lifetime arm...
the reason I endlessly say fire dorsey on Fina's show and Over reaction is because the coaches aren't effective. he's a generational talent but do these coaches have the mental skillset required to rewire Josh Allen without also ruining him?
I hope he's in therapy.
there's few things more difficult in sports. silver lining is that we know Josh had the balance figured out in the past.. its in there somewhere.
44 minutes ago, PBF81 said:I'm curious what his metrics are in this way.
Cook's not the prototypical blocking back to be polite. It was a weakness of his coming into the NFL and it seems as if Dorsey needs to find another solution.
Goes with not being a 3-down RB I suppose.
he is on the small side... that being said.. he was excellent the first few games in pass pro picking up blitzes.. not sure why he's regressing.
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8 minutes ago, MJS said:
A lot of people want to put it all on coaching. Heck, maybe they are right. It is way easier to evaluate players and their execution, though. It is way more difficult to evaluate coaches, at least for me. All I know is what the players are and aren't doing on the field.
well said
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1 hour ago, MJS said:
Better watch out. If you state the fact that Josh Allen didn't play well, you'll get a lot of people attacking you, even if it is true.
Nice analysis. I always enjoy these.
Hah.. thanks for the warning. .and the compliment.
The tape don't lie..
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1 minute ago, MJS said:
It's less regression and more that defenses have adjusted and playing him better. Defenses are better around the league, actually.
It is up to Josh to evolve, now. He has to get better at some of the QB mental aspects of the game because relying on his physical abilities, like he traditionally does, is not always getting the job done.
But he has actually played well this year outside of the Pats and Jets games. Against the Giants I think it was more him getting let down by his teammates. That was definitely the case against the Jags too.
good point. the whole delayed blitz tactic in the last few weeks has really thrown him off. in the past he would have just taken off running to make the d pay for that kind of blitzing.. but they are clearly asking him to dial that back.
The delayed blitzes seem to come more when he has an empty backfield. Perhaps keeping a rb in .. or going more pistol would help?
Its on Dorsey to help scheme against that tactic. But its also on Josh not to miss the opportunities that he is presented with.
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3 minutes ago, Success said:
I'm surprised at the overall conclusion. Just "eye test" from the game, it felt like Allen was harried all day. The NE pass rush looked like world beaters that game.
But I'm seeing more observations that Allen was just missing good opportunities, and not going through his progressions very well. I did notice that he doesn't step up in the pocket anymore.
It's concerning. I've been pushing back on the idea that he's regressing, but it we see another game or 2 like this in the weeks ahead....
it is tough to see if he has opportunities to climb the pocket on the live broadcasts sideline view.. but coaches endzone view uncovers those missed opportunities
Off Line Pass Pro / QB Unforced Error All 22 Review - week 5 10/6/24 - Texans
in The Stadium Wall
Posted · Edited by Bocephuz
My pleasure thank you
That is a great question. I very much paid attention to separation and opportunity. For example.. there was a play in the red zone where Josh hit his drop and not a single WR had separation ... he really didn't have a choice but to bail out to the right to buy time for one of his wrs to get open somehow. I did not grade that as "unforced"
However.. there were several plays .. shallow crossing routes in particular .. where at least one WR had separation and was open.. but Josh chose to throw deeper to a WR that did not have separation. He was not "forced" to make that decision. Accordingly I graded that as an "unforced" error.
Hopefully that makes sense.