d_wag

BB, you missed the point again buddy...... your initial question was "how do we create cap room from right now?" and i took it back a few years by questioning moves that got us in this current situation.......how to deal with the situation now is one discussion (and one i have fairly regularly)........what i'm talking about in this thread are some of the BAD CONTRACTS that got us where we are........ therefore, my point on teague stands...he is overpaid, and the reason he is overpaid is because TD gave him a contract and he hasn't performed up to it........ my point on PP stands....he is overpaid, and the reason he is overpaid is because TD gave him an extension and he hasn't performed up to it......... my point on brown stands.......keeping him this season, at a reduced cap charge (which he agreed to do) would have created more cap room IN 2004........if you don't want to believe brown would have taken a pay cut, that's your problem...... TD isn't flawless, and i don't understand why the excuse makers are more interested in covering up his mistakes with "sunk cost" logic when in fact he should be judged on what he has done since DAY 1 of his tenure........you can't say teague is overpaid now without pointing out that TD is the one that overpaid him......sorry, but that is a strike against TD, anyway you try to cut it........

for the job teague does, we could have found a replacement in the draft at under 1 million per year in cap charge.......barring that, someone could have been found in free agency at around the same amount in terms of cap charge....3 million is 3 times to much for an average talent.....he was brought in and paid LT money and then asked to play C.......he's overpaid, bottom line.... forget how easy it would be to get rid of PP -- he's overpaid.......1.4 million for a backup safety makes no sense.......1 million (his cap charge last year) for a backup safety makes no sense.......bad contract, period......you disagree that he is overpaid?? i'm not "speculating" over brown again, but he said publically he would take a significant pay cut and wanted to work to stay a bill.......i think that makes more sense then taking the entire signing bonus amortization in '04........

BB you missed a key point -- ruben was willing to work with the bills on his contract to ensure his return.........he even said he would take a pay cut.......all those numbers your throwing around don't mean jack because 1) it is quite possible he would have forfeited that roster bonus and 2) he would have reduced his salary.........keeping ruben around for another year would have been more cost effective then releasing him in the spring and absorbing the entire cap hit on the '04 books, when it is obvious we need that cap space now....... is ruben, even at this stage of his career, worse then our current cast of LG's? i seriously doubt it....... for teague, your picking up this discussion as "teague is on the roster, now do we handle it now".......back up -- teague shouldn't be on the roster because he has proven to be a bad signing......why? because he is overpaid........ for PP, again, he shouldn't be on the roster because it was a bad extension.........the fact that extension was in '02 has no bearing -- it was a bad extension then, and it still is now....... the only player of these 3 that TD inheriated was brown, and that was a horrible contract to have to deal with.....i think he could have done a better job with it, but TD wanted him off the books in '04....... but the other 2 are ALL on TD....he gave teague his deal, he extended prioleau's deal, and they both look like BAD CONTACTS now......you dispute these two are over-paid?? put the blame elsewhere if you want, but it's TD who signed these guys..........

funny you should ask BB....... for starters, he shouldn't have released ruben before june 1st......i said it at the time and was shouted down with "we have lots of cap room, no worries" comments..........with that much dead money left on the contract, it made more sense to spread it out over two years OR keep ruben around for one more season to lower the dead cap hit in '05......... secondly, extensions to average players hasn't helped the cap.......for example, prioleau is a cap hit of 1.4 million this year.........dumb extension, made no sense, but TD did it anyway........ lastly, having a guy like teague counting almost 3 million on the cap is a huge error.........teague is an average C at best, and we're paying him like he's top 5 at the position.......another horrible move...... with ruben's release after june and prioleau and teague's cap hits not around, this team would have enough money to lock up all 3 big free agents for next year...... you can call it hindsight if you want, but i was against all of these moves at the time they happened.....they all look bad now......

and ellis is a great player?? point is stats are used when talking contract, and in this case, schobel's agent will use his stats matched up against ellis to get a better deal....... TD can either pay fair market value for him, or let him walk.......seems to me he's gonna let him walk, because it would sure as hell be cheaper to sign him now then to wait until after he has another "good" season (personally, i think he'll have a "great" season)........ you guys all want a perfect player, and THEN you'll give him the big money after he's proven for 3 seasons he is the perfect player (and if his 2nd year is anything less then perfect, half of you will say to let him walk).......NFL doesn't work that way.....not successful teams anyway......they keep their good, young players around..........

i chalk this up to another excuse for TD....... there are guys all over the league working out deals right now......those teams are finding a way to lock up their good young talent, so why can't we?? i just don't buy it.....you can't tell me schobel, jennings, and williams are ALL the problem here.....maybe one, possibly two, but not all 3...... nope, that arguement was made about peerless, same with winfield, and now your gonna use it on these 3 guys....i think it's obvious -- TD is cheap.......it's not the players who are holding out for free agency......it's TD not offering them fair market value...... like i said, other teams are locking up their key young players......

the bills have the choice?? hardly.....schobel and jennings have the choice, and the longer we wait before signing them, the more appealing free agency will be for them....... if you plan on signing one of the two, why not do it now when it will be CHEAPER??? waiting until later just drives up the price.....and at that point, the bills will be lucky to retain either...... sitting back and waiting gets you no where in this league.....

schobel's 3 year production: 6.5 - year 1 8.5 - year 2 11.5 - year 3 ellis' 4 year production: 8.5 - year 1 5.0 - year 2 4.0 - year 3 12.5 - year 4 schobel was every bit as good as ellis last year, and has had a better career to date then ellis has had.......i don't know why bills fans refuse to recognize the guy is a good young player who is on the rise..... you guys keep saying wait, wait, wait.......well, by the time schobel puts up the kind of year you guys think he should, he'll have priced himself out of our range and we'll stand no chance of keeping the guy....the closer he gets to free agency, the more attrative that becomes to him.......in the NFL, you need to be ahead of the game.......by sitting back, the bills are blowing their chance......

Ellis, on the other hand, appears certain to get a long-term deal sometime after Pennington gets his. Ellis' deal is expected to be similar to the six-year contract recently signed by the Bears' Adewale Ogunleye: $20 million over the next three years, including $15 million in bonuses. http://www.newsday.com/sports/football/jet...ny-sports-print funny how the jets recognize young talent and lock it up, but bills fans don't expect donahoe to do the same thing and would rather watch our only legit pass rusher walk out the door..... every time one of these DE's signs another deal schobel's price just keeps getting higher and higher......TD has already wasted a ton of time on this already, and cost the bills dollars in the mean time if he does choose to resign him.....i just don't get it.....

the scoring error was not a judgement call......they made a mistake, and cost the guy points........ hamm didn't earn a gold.....if the guy is properly credited for his difficulty, hamm finsihes second, end of story.....i don't know why he'd want to keep something he didn't legitately earn......

hamm earned a silver medal and does not deserve a gold......why he would want to keep it is beyond me......he's a joke, just like his medal.....

i'd be pissed......this is year 4 with donahoe.......it is time for results....