Erik Flowers
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Posts posted by Erik Flowers
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6 runs in the SECOND HALF to 46 pass attempts in the ENTIRE GAME.
The way you have it worded is disingenuous.
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i provided you details. just because you don't agree with the facts i've laid out in this thread doesn't make them read any different.
let me type this slowly for you: According to attendance figures included in the media guide, the Bills have had more difficulty selling out games past Thanksgiving -- whether they've been winning or losing, whether they're in the playoffs or not, and even when it comes to hosting playoff games -- than they've had at any other time of the season through the 1990s and 2000s.
In fact, they sold out fewer games past Thanksgiving in the 1990s when the Bills were the AFC's winningest franchise, than they did this past decade that just ended, when the Bills enjoyed just one winning season.
jw
Those are generalizations, not details. Which specific games didn't sell in which specific years? What was the bills' record at that time, where did they stand in the playoff race. What was the weather forecast. Provide those details, and we can perhaps draw some conclusions about why those games didn't sell out. You obviously don't care about why, you would rather cut and paste and quote yourself. So be it. But don't pretend that your cute little article explains why.
Comparing data from two decades ago to the last 10 years is also a difficult sell, since the ticket buying patterns of fans have changed substantially. ****, near the end of the decade of futility we have more season ticket holders than we did in the superbowl years. But don't let that get in the way of the conclusion you wrote in an article you are now recycling.
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of course i'm correct. i essentially wrote the same story ... and was in the conference room with Jim Fink (the Biz Journal story author) interviewing Russ.
and yet, i guess that's not enough for at least one poster (not you Ray) for questioning where i got this information, as if i made it up. ... i mean, really.
Fact: The Bills have a difficult time selling out home games after Thanksgiving.
Fact: They've had more post-Thanksgiving sellouts in the past 10 years than in the 1990s.
Fact: They have about 57,000 seats left for their final three home games.
Add it up and it's clear: Bills fans hardly seem to be the hearty sort, they'd prefer to stay in the comfort of their own home rather than venture out to the stadium when the weather turns nasty whether the team they root for is winning or losing, hosting a playoff game or Cleveland.
jw
Stuff your pissy attitude and give me the details. Making grand statements without backing them up is clearly what you and your buddy PTR do best.
Rationalizing? Stating the facts aren't rationalizing. I'm sorry is stating that we beat New England rationalizing. Look at the friggin standings and tie breakers. We have only played 2 division games since we've yet to get the obligatory "beat up on Miami" game, the other 2 teams we're tied with have gotten so we have fewer division wins. If you want to keep your fingers in your ears and eyes shut, and pretend that this team is still awful so be it. And the "need to be miserable fans", you know the ones who need to find something wrong with everything, like the OP. Forget that this team is tied for first, has been competetive in all but one game, and far surpassed everyone's expectations to this point, there is always something to complain about. And I'm not saying blind allegience, but people are seriously getting upset over a ticket discount?
Care to edit your post?
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I don't think they are saying they are done with this team, that is just you trying to start ill will as always. All most of these people are saying is we have been here before, and have been burned too many times. It is being cautiously optimistic, and not wanting to be overly disappointed once again. If you had a wife for 15 years, and for the last 10 years she was cheating on you and bringing exotic diseases home to you every other night, then all of a sudden she behaves for a couple weeks, are you going to just assume her long history is all of a sudden changed over night? I know I wouldn't, but you make up your own mind.
The bolded is QFT.
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but there were FEWER non-sellouts in December with a non-winning team than there were in the 1990s with a winning team.
that's what makes this curious.
marketing, shmarketing. a winning team needs no marketing. it should be able to sell itself, especially in a town where "fans" like to insist that they're all about winning and the Bills.
as much as Buffalonians like to talk big about not minding the weather, they're a lot like most people, preferring to stay indoors for the most part once things turn brisk.
jw
Your response is nonsense. If fans are all about winning and the bills (two mutually exclusive concepts for nearly the Bills entire existence) then why are season ticket sales and sellouts increasing through the 2000's when they sucked? Because of marketing and regionalization.
So again - lets look at which specific games didn't sell out and the Bills record at the time and maybe we can make some progress.
And where are you getting the figures you based your story on? Quoting yourself is quite fulfilling, I am sure, but it doesn't help those trying to get to the root of the issue.
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A location the NFL has come out and said is their goal for putting a team in
A location where they have already secured a lucrative naming rights deal for a stadium that hasn't even started being built yet
A location where groups are already working on building a stadium that may rival Jones stadium in Dallas and they don't even have a tenant yet
A Location in one of the largest Markets in the US
Yup, theres no way a small market team could ever be relocated there when they can't sell out games when they are TIED (happy?) for 1st overall in their division (only because they haven't played as many divisional games at this point) in a season where even the fans complaining in this post had predicted they would be picking in the top spot the last 3 seasons
ticket sales have almost nothing to do with the profitability of an NFL team. Its all about TV dollars and corporate sales. No team will move to LA on the hope of selling tickets, because the people there don't care about football. That has been demonstrated over and over and over again.
Keep holding your breath for something to actually occur in LA. For all the progress you claim has been made, has anyone actually stuck a shovel in the ground yet?
And no, saying they are tied for first isn't accurate either. According to the tie breakers, they are in third.
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i disagree. for past 20 years ... and i haven't gone back further, it's historically been more difficult to sell tickets for games in December and beyond, whether the Bills are winning or losing, whether it's playoffs or not. the numbers state this. there's no getting around it.
i don't know how this is debatable.
jw
Throw out your stats for the 2000's we weren't competitive and were out of the running almost every year.
The stats for the 90's aren't broken down by the year. What games weren't sold out - what was our record at the time - those are factors that drive sales. You make a specific accusation based on generalized data.
And I agree with DD - there was a very limited marketing push, if any at all, in the early part of the 90's.
And of course promo crosses his facts - confusing ticket sales for attendance - but then facts are just an inconvenience to him.
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And don't let the facts get in the way of your argument. We are 3rd for no other reason then we've currently played fewer division games than New England and the Jets. Don't think you can fault the team for that, but I'm sure some of the need to be miserable crowd like yourself are totally aware of that right? Never mind that we've beaten New England and have the SAME record as the other 2 teams. You act as if we're 3-5 and barely even relevant.
Are you too dumb to realize promo is saying you are an undeserving fan, too? A need to be miserable fan? WTF does that mean? The reason I am in this thread is because I detest Promo calling out everyone on this board for being undeserving fans because we don't support the bills to his satisfaction. Maybe you are allright with that. I'm not.
But you just go ahead rationalizing how we are really in first place even though we are in third.
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What you hate is the fact that I'm right.
PTR
That you are right? You aren't right about a god damned thing. So again, take your condescending, holier than though attitude and cram it up your ass. I'm surprised you bother to attend a game with all the unworthy fair weather fans who (sometimes) populate that stadium.
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Real fans buy tickets. How many tickets do you have? Or are you trying to send the Bills a message? You were all set to buy some tickets until they lost to the Jets so eff them? Best fans in the NFL!
I bet all the folks who demand the Bills play in the elements won't go because it's too cold, lol.
PTR
I live outside the area, and attend a game or two a year. I have tickets for the Denver game, because I prefer cold weather game. Don't patronize me or question my fanhood because I think your atiitude and condescension towards fellow fans makes you an !@#$
Are some of you really that dumb that you can't figure this out? Really? More than a decade of sucking has caused this. Period. Another season of almost all Bills fans that thought we would suck has caused this. Period. An owner that hasn't spend near the cap AND has sold a home game to Toronto has caused this. Period. There are just as many seats to sell on an individual game basis as there are season ticket holders (in which I have two season tickets, and have been to every game this year....a 10 hour drive for me).
But please, spare me the rah rah crap. 10 years of pure mismanagement isn't going to be erased in 8 games. And it certainly doesn't help that the Bills are now 2-3 in their last 5 games. People still don't fully believe in this team. I think we all love rooting for these guys, but a lot of people were lost in believing in this owner's commitment to winning over the last decade or so. It has taken it's toll. It doesn't make Buffalo less of a football town, or less of a fan base.
When someone keeps rolling out dogschitt, year after year, sooner or later, people get sick of it. People got sick of it this year......clearly with the huge drop in season tickets. It doesn't come back overnight. There are far more teams not selling out games than Buffalo with FAR better records over the last 10-11 years. Fact. Many teams who are even claiming sellouts, aren't selling out games.....Washington comes to mind, for example.
So, please, save the rah rah crap. The Bills organization owes the fans much more commitment than the Bills fans owe management in this case. Hopefully, this is the beginning of our turnaround. With some competence by this team and management will come better ticket sales. But, you can't just expect blind support, after getting shat on, by masses of people, especially in this economy.
When the idea that Bills fans want to win much more than ownership, this is what happens. Hopefully, its changing. Some of you need to quit cowering in the corner because you think that if fans don't go to games, this team is gone, no matter what. I certainly hope the stadium is full for the last three games, and I will most likely be there no matter what. But I certainly can see why it might not be full. Only someone totally up Ralph's asss can't comprehend why the place isn't soldout after the last decade or so of pure fan abuse.
Yeah, because that Toronto game is packed with fans overflowing into standing room only seating, right? Oh, and in the smallest stadium in the league. Gee, wonder why that game pisses off most Bills fans. Most Bills fans would rather have an owner committed to winning, and raise prices to a satisfactory league level which would make up the difference of playing one game in Toronto per year.
The key there is an owner who is committed to winning and putting a product and resources toward the product they are trying to sell. We don't always feel that way.
Word.
Even a first place team can't get the fans excited. Might as well move the Bills now and save the money renovating RWS.
PTR
Again, we are not a first place team, we are in third. But don't let facts get in the way of you continuing to spew your bull ****.
Oh the myth has been exploded years ago. In fact Bills fans have always been full of excuses. Remember 1993's greatest comeback vs Houston? It was blacked out because the Bills lost their last regular season game to the Oilers the week before. This is the middle of the Super Bowl run and so-called fans were already blowing off the Bills after a bad loss.
So spare us (not you CB) the diatribes about how the Bills owe us something. Bills fans are so put upon, they all have it so awful, they always have an excuse, it's always someone we else's fault.
Don't be surprised if we turn on Terry Pegula eventually.
PTR
Since you hate your fellow fans so much, maybe you should root for a team with better fans. Those folks in Jacksonville and the 5 teams that have bombed out of LA sure know how to support a team.
Bills fans for all their hearty winter weather reputation have never entirely "warmed" to going to the Ralph in December.
Of their 14 non-sellouts from 2000-10, eight of them were in December and nine after Thanksgiving. According to Bills, the numbers for December were even worse in the 1990s when the team was actually winning.
just providing some perspective.
jw
Maybe it has something to do with clinched playoff spots or already being out of the running. Call me crazy, but I still prefer the cold weather games. I always attended the last home game of the year in my college years, as all my friends were home from college. Luckily for me, I was in college from 90-94. And I was at that oilers game that didn't sell out, as well as the comeback playoff game.
I hate what PTR has turned this thread into - condescend to me because of your perception of whether I buy tickets or not? Insult everyone on this board like some unsold tickets a month out are a personal affront to you? Puff your chest out like you are a better fan because you hold 4 seasons for 18 years? Big !@#$ing deal.
!@#$ you Promo - you are so full of ****. take your tickets and cram them up your ass. Buy four more seasons and maybe Ralph will let you give him his daily enema.
Sure - why do you come all that way to root for a team whose fans you obviously despise and look down upon?
Oh - its not the team he looks down on - they can do no wrong. Its you and me and every other fan that doesn't support the team to the level he feels is adequate that he despises and looks down on.
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This is ridiculous. You said "compete." In the Giants game, I do not believe there even were any turnovers from the Giants.
We were -2 in turnovers and lost the game. How is that ridiculous?
But you are missing the point of this thread - Bills nation does not suck because it isn't selling out games at the moment - and PTR is an !@#$ for suggesting it does.
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Link? 57,000 available tickets seems really high.
Better teams or the Jets? The Bills beat the Patriots and *competed* fine against the Giants.
we compete just fine when we are +4 in takeaways - when those numbers fall back to earth we struggle mightily. Lets look back at the end of the season and see where we stand, as well as the teams we beat.
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What awesome fans we have. Team is in first place at the half way mark and they still won't buy tickets. Hello Los Angeles.
PTR
No, we are in third - and just got our ashes hauled by the jets. Again. Hello LA? Get off your high horse.
This team has a long ways to go to be able to compete against the better teams in the league. This fan base has been buying tickets hopeless season after hopeless season. One slow year at the gate and we suck as fans? Go !@#$ yourself.
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They only play the game with one ball.
PTR
Phil Kessel? Lance Armstrong?
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What size shirt is he wearing in this pic, a youth large?
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Brad Smith is too dumb to be successful in the NFL.
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Holy sh--! Fitz went to Harvard?
Not exactly missouri, is it? Dumb ass probably couldn't get in.
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Jimmy has apparently been tied up in Court. It seems he had a spat with his gay lover (not that there is anything wrong with that), and shot the dude in the head.
Check out the mug shot - spitting image of the Jetz #1 fan!
http://tcriernews.com/article/Local/Local/Duffy_Trial_Set_to_begin_November_9th/22747
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Only trying to point out 99% 100% of your OP was hashed out in several hundreds of threads over several months.
Fixed that for you.
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It is a package deal i think.
Brady and Belichick. Brady to me is a very weak minded guy, that Belichick is able to manipulate.
I am not talking about Brady's talent or ability to win games in pressure situations. But if you watched yesterday, when things aren't going his way, Brady loses it. He always had. Thats why forever coaches and fans of other teams know you have to hit him.
An di for one couldn't have been more happy watching Belichick blow up.
To me, could be wrong, but it showed he thinks he is bigger then the game. The way he was treating the refs, and on the field.
Anyways, Bills won and thats all that matters. Now i really want to beat them in NE at the end of the year. When you know Brady and Belichick will be wanting to beat Buffalo.
Apparently, you're not old enough to have watched Marv Levy pitch a fit on the sideline and swear up one side of a ref and down the other. Or maybe you think Marv thought he was bigger than the game, too.
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This ironically coming from the guy with the Erik Flowers avatar. Nice
Notice I'm not starting threads suggesting they sign me...
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Why are you friends with someone who isn't a sports fan? Is he marrying a dude? Not that there's anything wrong with that...
Just because you got WAY too drunk in college one time and went for a ride on the bologna pony doesn't mean you have to miss a Bills game. Unless he is threatening to divulge the pictures, in which case you are screwed. Again.
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2005, 2005, paging 2005, please pick up the white courtesy phone. One of your threads escaped and can't find its way back. Paging 2005...
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He was working on that mix tape.
If Bills go 5-11, does Buddy get fired?
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
You are assuming he is a bigger fan of football than he is of making money.
I'm not sure he even likes football.