toddgurley

he is ancient, Bills dont go after older players usually

You never know what a change of scenery can do. While he may not be the answer, if you can get he cheap, it cant possible hurt-

its ok, I am prepared LOL-but seriously we cant write him off just yet. To go a little further, I dont think we can write off John McCargo yet either, but he is really running out of time FAST!!! I will prob catch heat for that too, but BuffaloBills.com said McCargo did not see eye to eye with former Defensive Line coach (Mcnally I think was his name), and the new COACH has lit of match under his ass. Lets hope so are we wasted a good 1st rd pick, again. Right jp loserman?

Actually, I quoted the numbers to use the reasoning we will be just fine without him, and to try to prove he was not our best o-lineman last year. The effort may have been in vain but that's what I was trying to show- I guess we will see pretty soon One last question: Do you think Peters was a pro bowl caliber LT last year? Honestly- (and like I said before I know he missed all of Training Camp, but that was his fault)

I dont think you can write off Hardy yet-LOL. I mean it took Eric Moulds 3 seasons before he became good, and he was a 1st rd pick as opposed to Hardy who was a 2nd. But I hear what you are saying

Valid points Tim, lets hope that rookie D Ends can do some damage, because we need Maybin to come through in A BIG WAY. However, I have been told not too expect more than 5 sacks from him because it's rare that DE's produce their rookie year (mario williams , gaines adams, jamal anderson, jarvis moss) I realized you named some very good rookie DE's, but I think you will agree that is not the norm- The only thing I did not understand was the Fred Jackson is better than Marshawn Lynch statement. Where did that come from? While I love fast Freddy, I do not think he is better than Marshawn Lynch. I just said he ran the ball very well vs the Pats in week 17. I truly believe the Marshawn can be something very special in the NFL. Providing he can stay out of trouble, and we get our offense line together. * You were right, Peters did have an off year, and we DID have to trade him. However, I dont think we should hate him, just dislike him strongly. *I think our interior O-line will be much improved over last years, and the trio (levitre, hangartner, and wood) could be very good for years to come. Plus I love that nasty demeanor that they all have, they are all known for finsishing blocks, which I Love. However, I am very nervous about our tackles however. Walker did a good job at LT last year, and Butler was arguable our best o-lineman last year (in terms of consistency) but as you know he played guard. With that being said, our o-line was not very good at all last year. So lets really hope that its not worst than last years and that these guys can step it up this year. Thanks for not being too busy to respond Tim- Go BILLS!

wow, that is crazy that they are chalking him up as a failure at DE after 2 seasons in which he only played at total of 24 games. Kinda early-

i see your point, but agree with fingon on this one. Now if our D ***** the bed this season, then maybe we should take a look. Chances are if we do bad this season, that Jauron is gone, and that means new coach and new schemes-

i understand-but it still had to be up there.

well we lack the personal currently. We can barely find enough "good" lbs to fit the 4-3-scheme, let alone the 3-4. Possible in the future, but only if we have the players which we dont currently

hey vj91 just so you know, Russ offered Jason Peters the Richest/largest contract in team history this past offseason before we traded him, check post #82 by Lori, better yet here it is. "There's the rub. Remember what Brandon said: "... we offered Jason an enormous contract – the largest contract in Bills history – and he had no interest in it. None." "We felt very strongly that Jason was not going to come back to camp, was not going to participate, and we were going to be in the same situation (as last year)." I think most of us agree that there was very little chance of a deal getting done". just an FYI, we did try

Hey buddy, do you own dogs? I do, and that will always prevent me from ever being a Mike Vick fan again. Sorry, but not in Buffalo-

ok, i did a jarvis moss search on this site to try and make sure this was not posted already. So sorry if we talked about trading for him, but in this case, he would be cut. so we could get him for nothing (other than the contract he would sign)

I think when he said JP in his post he was talking about Jason Peters (JP) not J.P. Losman-but i did not go back and look at the old posts.

thanks Phillster, atleast someone has a clue.

Got this from my buddy Tijo (screen name) who is a Bills fan and I just wanted to know your take on it. Considering we have some "pass rush issues" to say the least, it could be an option- Cut coming in Denver? "Some players take to a new defensive scheme with ease while others struggle. As the Denver Broncos transition to a 3-4 scheme for the 2009 season, one player who has not been able to find a niche is the team's first round pick from 2007, Jarvis Moss. Moss is a natural defensive end in a 4-3 scheme, but has been working at outside linebacker this offseason. According to Scout.com, he'll need to make a solid impression during training camp or he could face being cut". "With the uncertaincy of Schobel's foot problem and the lack of production from Kelsay and Denney and he can be a very good 4-3 DE. We also have no Idea what we will get out of Ellis yet. Also with Moss we could make Maybin a SLB over Ellison very easily". According to TIJO My Take Moss is 6'6 265lbs age 24 college:Florida Picked in 1st rd 17th overall in the 2007 draft Pre-draft measureables Ht Wt 40-yard dash Vert Broad jump Bench Press 6-6½ 250 lb 4.70 30½ in. 10'00" 16 Last Years Stats (2008): 12 games 12 tackles 2.5 sacks 2007 stats: played in 6 games 12 tackles 1.0 sacks before breaking shin Career: 24 Tackles 3.5 Sacks So he has a good solid frame and was a beast in college (I know it does'nt mean anything at pro level) Remember when he blocked a PAT vs South Carolina to keep the score 16-10 SC, and then later in the 4th he blocked the game winning FG attempt and Florida won 17-16 mostly because of Moss. It sounds like he is being cut because of the scheme not lack of talent, although who really knows. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs, and you can never have too many solid back ups. and I have read that the Bills will use Maybin at outside LB on 3rd down pass rush situations

ha ha, I do not hate Peters. I am however happy he is gone because i question his work ethic, attitude and integrity. I do think that our interior o-line is much improved and will be good for years to come. But obviously there are questions about both our Tackles? Would i want the jason peters from 2 or 3 years ago, before he thought he was the man? Sure. But I DO NOT WANT THE CURRENT JASON PETERS because of reasons listed above (work ethic, integrity, and attitude). So i do not hate him to clarify for you. and by the way, most Bills fan are happy he is gone. We may have questions about the o-line, but in general We are happy he is gone because WE ONLY WANT PLAYERS WHO WANT TO BE HERE

quoted by='thebandit27' date='Jun 29 2009, 03:13 PM' post='1465330'] "I was there as well, and I believe at no point was Buffalo in a position to win that game." "New England played the entire game with a 6th offensive lineman, and Buffalo--no matter what they did to adjust--couldn't stop them." What? we could stop them. ha ha. Total Yards from that game NE: 241 Buf: 276 Passing yards NE: 73 Buf:115 Rushing Yards NE:168 Buf: 161 Yards per attempt Running NE: 3.6 Buf: 4.6 Turnovers NE: 0 Buf: 1 You still wanna stick to that past statement? we were once again out coached by NE, not outplayed. Perfect example during that game, Bellicheat brings his offense out and lines up like he is going for it on 4th and long deep in his own end. Causing Mauron (jauron) to burn a time out when there was no way in hell they were going for it. Do you remember that stupid play? We will always have a tough time beating NE as long as Bellicheat is their coach and Mauron is ours

number s dont lie, but people do. I do agree that numbers can be misleading, but 5.5 sacks given up on ONE-ON-ONE pass protection schemes does not make you an ELITE LT or justify the highest paid contract to an O-LINEMAN. Would you agree with that? Review post #67 or #68, his one on one sacks given up alone would have placed him at 19th among LT

ok I hear what your saying. we lost 13-0 so how could it be that I think we should have won. Just re-watch the game. We should have scored points before the half, but duke preston decided to fight on the last play before the half, instead of lining up for the next play-when we were inside the red zone (the 9 yard line to be exact). At that point in the game, the score was 3-0 NE. Then to start the 2nd half, we were driving in NE territory and TRENT EDWARDS got sacked by Mike Vrabel and fumbled. Pats went down field and scored a TD off that Turnover. Play By Play Box: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playbyplay?g...02&period=3 BOX SCORE: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=281228002 Also check out the box score, we ran all over them. Freddy Jackson 136 yards on 27 carries. SO I DO DISAGREE WITH YOU THAT WE WERE SHUT DOWN OFFENSIVELY- and for the worst game we played, I woUld say it was the 10-3 loss AT HOME TO SF, which was 2nd to the 16-3 loss to Miami in Toronto. In the NE game the wind made it impossible to pass. In the 2 games i just mentioned, we did not have to wind excuse. and its ok if you disagree, I just felt pretty strongly that we let that one get away HOW ABOUT THIS BUD: WE SHOULD HAVE WON VS THE JETS (INFAMOUS JP LOSERMAN FUMBLE) YOU AGREE WITH THAT THEN? LOL

AGREE IT TAKES TIME TO REVIEW FILM, so would nt you trust and company (STATS, INC) and a professional (KC JOYNER) who does this for a living? and its not like anyone else is showing us a STAT that says different. The 2 numbers i have read about are 12 sacks (says kc joyner) and 11.5 (says STATS, INC) Which are pretty similar if you ask me?

Spencer in Ellicottville, N.Y., can't "understand why every sports writer in the nation is on the Bills' case for shipping off Jason Peters." Spencer reasons that the Bills will be better off without Peters because they went 2-0 without him last year and 5-9 with him and he was "getting burned by rookie defensive ends almost every week." Tim Graham's Response: You can be upset with Peters' contract demands and the way he forced his way off the team, but I will never understand why fans channel their anger into rationalizing that he's no good. That's the definition of sour grapes (one of the most misused phrases, by the way). Peters was Buffalo's best offensive lineman last year. He led the Bills in point-of-attack blocking, according to analyst KC Joyner. Peters went to his second straight Pro Bowl because opposing coaches and players consider him one of the league's best. Yes, Peters gave up too many sacks last year and took a big step back from his sublime season in 2007. But he was better than most. You're flat-out lying when you state he was abused by rookie defensive ends. Peters lines up against elite pass-rushers every game. That's what left tackles do. As for your suggestion the Bills were better without Peters on the field, the records you gave are not only misleading, but also wrong. The Bills went 2-1 in games Peters didn't play. Their victories came over the Seattle Seahawks and Denver Broncos, teams that went a combined 12-20. They also lost to the Patriots in the season finale minus Peters. MY RESPONSE/QUESTION TO TIM GRAHAM: I am pretty pumped that Tim G is weighing in on this. And for the record, I am a Tim Graham fan, but just simply disagree with him on this topic. Keep up good work Tim. But tim, Did nt Chris Long of STL and Quinton Groves of JAX BOTH BEAT PETERS FOR SACKS? They were rookies last year, right? So the original post was'nt way off. So he did technically get beat by rookies, right? Just not every week like the guy suggested. (and yes i know that the week 2 game vs Jax was Peters 1st start, but once again that is his fault) Also, we should have beat NE is the last game, if you watch it again, we blew it PRETTY badly. That would have made us 3-0 in games Peters did not play in, but we lost making us 2-1. Also Freddy Jackson also ran for 136 yards on 27 carries (5.0 yards per carry). That is pretty good for not having your "BEST O-LINEMAN" huh? As opposed to the game where Jason Peters did play vs NE (week 10) when the BILLS AS A TEAM RUSHED FOR 60YARDS ON 18 CARRIES= 3.3 YPC. (am tying not to compare apples to oranges) Go Bills!! Bills vs STL box score: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=280928014 Bills vs Jax box score: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=280914030 Bills vs NE (week 17): http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=281228002 Bills vs NE (week 10): http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=281109017 AND THESE STATS ALL CAME OFF ESPN (FOR YOU DEANER)

so you dont think we should have won the last game of the season vs NE? The one where Freddy Jackson ran all over them, and we still got shut out. Watch the game again, we should have beaten them. Which would have made us 3-0 in games Jason Peters did not play in. What dont you understand about that? Really?

I dont hate peters, but he in not as good as you all (Dean and others) think. Numbers dont lie, and c'mon STATS, INC has one job-STATS! ESPN USES THEM, SO HAVE TO BE SOMEWHAT RELIABLE! Official or not That is what these people do for a living, and despite what you keep saying about being "UNRELIABLE" stats know this: JASON PETERS GOT BEAT ONE ON ONE FOR 5.5 SACKS, THAT IS HARD TO ARGUE- SEE EARLIER POST: To revisit VOR's assertion that "... when a guy says that Peters was beaten one-on-one for 5.5 sacks, there's little room to start claiming bias or faulty methodology," it seemed like there was a LOT of room to disagree on whether or not Peters should have gotten out to block Abram Elam on the infamous Losman fumble at the Meadowswamp HOW YOU LIKE THEM APPLES?

Thurman, check my earlier post bud. Here it is for ya I am glad you found that, you proved my point. The article says there are 2 companies that record sacks. Now, granted that Tom Curran of NBC says this about the stat sack: "The sack stat -- who gets them and who gets blamed for them -- is one of the most bogus in football since they can be the by-product of so many things. They can be attributed to excellent coverage, a skittish quarterback, miscommunication, a teammate's pressure. Sacks are like snowflakes, people. Each one different." With that being said, the 2 COMPANIES/PEOPLE WHO TRACK THIS STAT ARE: 1. STATS, INC-Who said that Peters gave up 11.5 sacks for a loss of 106.5 yards. 2. KC JOYNER-as Tim Graham calls him in this article-"The football Scientist" says the Peters gave up 12 sacks!! In which 5.5 were in ONE-on-ONE cases alone. You cant really argue the one on one sacks. Also, the one-on-one sacks alone would make PETERS the 19th RANKED LT in the league. NOT WHAT YOU CALL PRO BOWL MATERIAL HUH? And to quote VOR from earlier-"While I don't know how much I can trust his(KC Joyner) analysis, the fact that he tagged Peters with 12 and STATS, Inc. tagged Peters with 11.5 tells me that it was indeed in the double digits." I would have to agree with that style of thinking, of course you probably disagree-