thewildrabbit
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Quote from Lee Evans:
It’s been a rough couple of games, a rough part of the season,” Evans said. “It’s not so much what the other teams do and what they don’t do, it’s about us.”
It appeared Evans was open several times down the field, but quarterback Trent Edwards rarely looked his way.
“It’s more so what teams have been doing,” Evans said. “It’s hard to get open when they drop so many people deep and you really don’t have many underneath routes to hold people there.
“It’s not one person’s fault,” added Evans. “It’s just us, as an offense, we haven’t been playing very well.”
My take is it's the game plan and coaching failure to get the Bills best offensive player the ball!
Send the rookies deep and send Lee on the crossing routes..over the middle and underneath and end around's. Lee Evans should be seeing the ball come his way 10-15 times a game.
Jebus the retarded coaches need to find a way to get Lee Evans the ball!!
Marshawn lynch should also be getting 20-25 touches a game,the more the better.Either Lynch or Evans should be the only players that should see the ball every offensive play.Utilize your best players,don't let opponents take them away.
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That reminds me,think of the SD Chargers fans and what they must be thinking now of the firing of Marty Schottenheimer after he took them to a 14-2 record. Man... talk about shooting yourself in the foot!
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Please MR Wilson, you can't take it with you!
Hire a guy who can win a super bowl for you,Bill Cower!
Or even talk Marty Shottenheimer out of retirement if Cower won't come here.
I was a big fan of Dick Jauron and his coaching style and his rep for building a strong defense and power running game.
It appears he gives his coordinator's way to much control and lets them do whatever they want. Most notably offensively, throwing the ball out of the shotgun on third and one 3 times against the Patriots should have cost Schonert his job...or at least a severe butt kicking,nope he is still calling stupid passing plays.
If Jauron refuses to take control and pound the rock then lets get Bill Cower or Marty ball in Buffalo.
Lord knows I want to see the bills run the ball like the NY Giants are doing, 200 yards on the ground against that vaunted Ravens "D"
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The problem with that theory is that unless someone can get Marshawn to actually fuggin hit the hole, the offense isn't going to move the sticks enough and running the table becomes an impossibility.
I strongly disagree! The biggest problem with that theory is not Marshawn Lynch IMO! Lynch and Jackson are both capable backs with some amazing abilities.
My take is.. its the coaching staff's inability to stick with the running game even when they get behind and the offensive line.Turk Schonert wants to throw the ball on every down and out of the shotgun no less.
The Bills Offensive line...do they in any way shape or form resemble the NY Giants offensive line? Perhaps physically but not in ability and determination. Maybe you missed the games where Kris Jenkings, Vince Wolfolk Shaun Rodgers all made the bills center and guards look like high schoool players against pro's. Kris Jenkins personally tore the bills a new one even being triple teamed!!!
What do the Bills do? Of course they try and run up the middle or off tackle. the team needs to be more creative when over matched at certain positions. LIKE RUNNING AWAY FROM JENKINS!
Miss-direction plays,toss sweeps,end around's. Basically they need to stop throwing so much and concentrate on running
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On a side note..In 1988, that was the year I first purchased 4 season tickets after I had read Marv Levy had hired ex Baltimore colts head coach Ted Marchibroda.I kept those season seats though most of the the 90's.
Mind you I wasn't a big fan of Marvs' even with his Grey cup wins and head coaching stints the Chiefs and USFL.But I was a big fan of Ted Marchibroda and Bert Jones,they could never get the Colts past the Steelers in the late 70's.
Of all the hires by Marv I think that Marchibroda was his best. He helped develop Jim Kelly into a hall of fame player after he had played in the Mouse Davis run and shoot stuff in the USFL.
Through the K-gun and no huddle,letting Jim Kelly call his own plays. Building a terrific offensive line and installing the "counter trey" for the running game.He set up an amazing offense in Buffalo.
The Colts re hired Ted marchibroda away from the Bills. Marchibroda is the forgotten man from that Bills dynasty. I think he is a big reason why Kelly and Thurman and Levy are all in the Hall.
P.S. Marv also tried to hire Tom Coughlin to run his defense! That hire might have come close to the hiring of ole Ted but Tom Coughlin went elsewhere,to the Jags as their first head coach if I recall correctly.
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I was there... cold and raining all game...water gushing down the steps.
Pretty certain it was an NFL record, the first team to ever win the division that early in the season. 9-6 win in overtime.
FAN-DEMONIUM !!!
After the win I can recall watching in amazement as fans rushed by me jumping onto the field and heading toward the goal posts,then the posts came down and went up into the stands as fans passed them around the stadium .Awesome sight,have never seen anything like it since.
One of my all time favorite games
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My take is that Jauron gives his staff complete control over offense=Turk schonert-Defense Perry fewell- Special teams Bobby April. The latter is not a bad thing as Bobby April is one of the best in the NFL.
Schonert is a rookie and Fewell is in his second year.
Not a seasoned experienced staff by any means. Schonert needs to stop trying to throw on every down and I'm not a real big fan of the Tampa 2 defense either.
So yea coaching leaves a lot to be desired on this team....That said simply running Marshawn 20-30 times a game can change everything!
The Bills could go 11-5 if they will just run the rock
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My take on JP is that he wanted to do the right thing all the time so he would wait until the primary receiver was open,which was a clear mistake,he should have just dumped it off like Edwards does.
I noticed that this last game Trent Edwards looked an awful lot like JP did in his bad games.I think that is a result of the play calling and lack of running game. Schonert has been pass happy and its giving Edwards problems. Also he has been making some simple mental mistakes like not simply throwing the ball away when under duress rather then try and force a pass.
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JP has consistently improved?? That's just rediculous. Trent has played just barely one full season, JP had four years. Granted his coaches were not that great, JP is awful though. You are blinded by the glamour of the backup QB.
JP had four years...of what? different head coaches,different offensive coordinators. Out his first year with a broken leg. JP had some really good games and some bad games. That happens to almost every new young QB though. Lets not forget that Eli Manning was getting hammered by critics for his bad play and mental mistakes until the latter part of last year when the proverbial "lights" went on and he started playing great consistently. It took him four FULL years to finally get it!
My take is if JP had started for the NY Giants instead of Eli and had that power running game behind him all this time while he learned to read defenses and garnered 4 solid years of experience, who is to say he wouldn't have developed as well as Eli?
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Drafted 04,broken leg in training camp and played backup to Bledsoe and only saw brief action in three games.
05,started 11 games in 2005,replaced by Kelly Holcomb for 5 games
06,Losman had a 62.5 completion percentage for the season, a record for Buffalo Bill quarterbacks in a full 16-game season. He was rated the 11th best passer in the NFL, with an 84.9 passer rating.Losman's performance over the last half of the 2006 season was greatly improved. However, the offense as a whole was hurt by a below-average rushing attack that created many 3rd and long situations.
07,played in 8 games
So he really had one season to develop and with a weak running game it just makes it almost impossible for a new QB to play well. Want to blame someone,blame the play calling and lack of ground game.
The Bills will continue to lose games when they force any young QB to carry the team
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Personally, I think that Turk got ahead of himself with Trent. We need to run first and them play off of play-action which I have not seen in Buffalo for a million years. Trent is a young qb and is not ready to lead a spread offense with an empty backfield. This offseason we need to fix the interior oline and get back to running the football. We have two good running backs like Tenn and Carolina and they run the ball fine and pass when they have to. Why??? Cause they have a good o-line and coachs who are committed to running the football. Just my opinion....
I agree
Also,lets not forget that the NY Giants put up over 200 yards on the ground against that Ravens Defense.
Running the ball will cure so many of this teams problems.The Bills have two really good running backs,they need to give Marshawn 25+ touches and Freddy at least 20.Trent Edwards should be throwing about 10-15 times a game max.Instead of this shotgun crap every single down.
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This last game might be a blessing in disguise,maybe the OC will now try and run the ball more instead of throwing it every down!
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I know.I know.....Edwards missed him open on that 1 replay that E$PN showed...but let's be real here: is Evans a prototypical #1 WR or is Lee more of a good #2 WR with top 'home run threat' potential??
Me thinks the latter might be more of the true statement.
#1 WR's do not go AWOL ANYWHERE NEAR as much as Evans does...and some of those WR"s also have bad talent around him.
I disagree, Lee Evens or any WR will only be as good a the QB Throwing to him. I won't blame at the receiver if the QB won't even throw his way.
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The idea that he's still recovering from the hit in Arizona is retarded. Did you watch the game against S.D.?
That's not it. I'll tell you what it is; the more he's coached by a panzy conservative chicken sh't pu**y like DICK, the more he resembles him. He becomes more and more gun shy each week, just how Jauron wants him. I'm saying this now: Jauron is ruining Trent Edwards on a weekly basis. If we don't eliminate Jauron from this equation, Edwards is toast. BTW, our D played better in the 2nd half, so your suggestion that the D was tired is also just wrong........sorry.
What I think the majority of Bills fans don't get is the fact that Head Coach DicK Jauron has given complete autonomy to Offensive Coordinator Turk Schonert in play calling.
Its the play calling that more at fault in my opinion. WTF are the Bills in the shotgun formation on the very first play?
Constant use of the shotgun is what is screwing the team up.When you run play action it helps keep the linebackers from cheating up because they don't know if its a run or pass. In shotgun all the time it leaves no doubt so they drop deeper.
I read more rants in this forum about the QB stinking up and losing the game.Its a team game...coaching,players,game plan.
My take is Schonert saw that Trent had some success early in the season against some weaker teams so he opened up the passing game,and he keeps trying to win games by throwing the ball all the time.That plan might work if they didn't use the shotgun formation so often.
I'm hoping that since Marshawn Lynch finally had the chance to show what he can do that perhaps Schonert will let him and Fred Jackson get more carries.
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That's because they're usually in 2nd and 3rd and long situations and Trent is standing there in shotgun formation where the Bills pass 100 percent of the time.
It's a vicious circle that only good coaching can fix. This isn't rocket science here, yet Jauron and his cohorts make it out to be. In football and especially in the NFL, you try to make the defense pay on every snap of the ball, In Jauron's world "hard work" is all that's needed to make up for the opposing teams knowing what play they are going to run.
Go back and watch that NE game again and Schonert is over using the shotgun formation. He used it on THIRD and ONE THREE times against the Pats,all went incomplete. The only time the bills ran on third and one it went for a first down!
If Coach Jauron takes any action it should be that he takes all the shotgun plays out of the playbook for now.
The shotgun was designed to help a QB see what set the defense is in and is mostly used in 2nd,3rd and long like billsfan mentions.Schonert uses it constantly and in strange sitations.
Seems like as soon as the Bills get behind by as little as seven points they go into full blown passing sets and ingnore the running game,which is completely stupid.
The thing is Turk Schonert is a rookie signal caller and he is working with a 2nd year QB,both are inexperienced...
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3rd and 1
we pass.
only 3 things can happen when you pass and 2 of them are bad.
You forgot to mention....THREE FRIGGIN TIMES!!! Third and one yard and the Bills go shotgun and the pass goes incomplete!!!
The Bills next play is a punt! The one time he calls a run on third and one it goes for a first down!
Schonert is putting Trent Edwards is situations that is difficult for him to succeed. On another play Schonert calls shotgun on first down and then when its second and 10 he calls I formation and runs the ball.... needless to say the RB didn't go anywhere...
So,he calls shotgun on first down and runs on second and long....oh yea he knows what he is doing
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Snow would actually work against us because we can not run the ball. Our home feild advantage could actually hurt us. It's not like the Browns are running great but they are running far better than us. This would be an advantage to them.
Good Point
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I don't love or hate Lynch, in fact I could care less who the running back is. So allow me to make a few points from an objective perspective:
1.) To say you need a great running game to win is incorrect. The Patriots went 16-0 last year without a running game. The Colts are dead last in the NFL in rushing yards per game, and they've clearly turned the corner on their season. Arizona ranks 29th in the NFL in rush yds/game, and they're definitely going to the playoffs. Even the vaunted Pittsburgh Steelers, the icons of smashmouth football, are ranked in the bottom third in the league.
2.) Practically every yard either Lynch or Jackson gain in the running game comes after contact. I don't care how good you are, it's awfully difficult to run for too many yards when you're hit the backfield on every play (it really is every play, too).
3.) Examine the top running teams in the league (top 10 in order): Giants, Falcons, Ravens, Redskins, Vikings, Titans, Patriots, Raiders, Jets, Panthers. You'll find a commonality among them. Nine out of ten operate their running games with multiple competent backs (Redskins did not, and now Clinton Portis is pretty banged up). They all split carries without seeing much of a dropoff in production, which leads me to believe that the person carrying the ball hasn't much to do with the team's success on the ground. Otherwise, would a guy like Derrick Ward be on pace for a 1,000-yard season?
Let's face the facts here, the running game (or lack thereof) is just one component of why a team is or is not successful. The Bills didn't run well even when they were winning this season. There are many other factors that are equally (if not more) important, such as quarterback play and forcing turnovers. Grasping at straws like "It's the running back's fault" or "The quarterback suddenly sucks" ignores the concept of a team game. And there's no denying that football is a complete team game. Anyone that says differently should ask the Patriots.
While I agree with most of what you say here.The thing is people keep naming seasoned veteran star QB's who don't need running game to help them win. Like Payton Manning of the colts or Drew Brees of the saints,Tom Brady of the Pats.Kurt Warner of Ariz. These are seasoned veteran super bowl winning QB's,cept Brees. Plus the teams they are on have seasoned veteran O-lines for the most part and seasoned veteran COACHES.
You can't compare the Bills players and coaches to veteran QB's who can carry a team by themselves. Trent Edwards is in his second year as is Marshawn Lynch.
The thing that gets me is the patriots can lose the starting veteran QB and put in a back up who hasn't played football since high school. Then lose three running backs and pull a free agent nobody out of nowhere and have them all win games for them.
Lastly, lets not forget the bills have two rookies on this years team making a huge impact... OC Turk Schonert and O-line coach Sean Kuglar
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Time for players to get in each others faces and time for the coaches to start setting some ultimatums. Thurman said that he COULD NOT BELIEVE how little fire is on this team (players and coaches). Each individual on this team needs to take their game up to the next level. He believes that the talent IS there and they are just not using it. The coaches need to use the strengths on this team.
#34 also mentioned that he would always get in the faces of his line and call them out when needed!! Soooo lets get some freakin' leadership on this team and get PISSED OFF!! Turn the page already and get PERSONAL on that field Monday Night!!
The crowd will FEED off of this and the ship can be righted (disregard all comments I made about this team NEVER winning with Jauron) well, not all.
Wake up Bills WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
After the first week of the season and poor line play Redskin running back Clinton Portis called out his O-line and up to last week he was the leading rusher in the NFL,currently he is the second leading rusherSo his line responded.
I'd say Ok to someone calling out ... but the Bills have some different circumstances. First, Marshawn is only in his second season and is not a veteran,either is Trent Edwards.
Second,the Bills have two new rookie coaches and it is showing up big time.Offensive coordinator Turk Schonert and Offensive line coach Sean Kugler.
While the OC is calling shotgun in the most inopportune times.like 3rd down and one three times against the pats,all went incomplete and the result was three punts,.this makes absolute no sense to me.The one time it was 3rd and one he called a running play it went for a first down.
The Line speaks for itself,basically the same personnel as last year but playing horrifically bad this year.
I'm not certain that "calling out" anyone at this point would help anything.Head Coach Dick Jauron needs to step up and take control of this situation and do his job. Coach and instruct his assistants properly....if he can
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Last year the Team had so many Injuries and yet they played very well considering Trent and Marshawn were rookie's. That team was noted for over achieving. They played hard every game and you would figure that with the upgrades to the team that they would be even better this year....
Is it the two rookies this year in new OC Turk schonert and OL coach Sean Kuglar why now...
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Honestly, I couldn't agree more. Lynch was banging out a decent 3-4 yards every attempt. We got some mojo going and instead we start the 2nd half with shotgun shotgun shotgun shotgun. Christ everyone and their mother can figure out exactly what the bills are going to do based on their formation. The one time we ran a shotgun draw we got 8 yards. Did we do it ever again? Of course not. On short yardage situations, where Lynch is money, we were trying to be cute with little screens and dump passes instead of just handing him the ball. The defense in this game up until that last drive wasn't doing all that bad, and kept us in it. The play calling was more than predictable and stupid.
How many times did we line up in a singleback formation and run it to the left? How many times did we run a shotgun formation and try to pass over the middle? This has got to be fixed.
Couldn't agree more Either!!!
New OC Turk Schonert is calling the most idiotic plays at the most inopportune times. Like 3 times he called shotgun on 3rd down and one...all for incomplete passes.
He called shotgun on first down and then an I formation run on second and 10...makes no sense
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The troubles start at the top. We have one of the worst owners in sports. I've watched the Bills since 1964. You can name our successful General Managers on two fingers;(1) Bill Polian; (2) Whomever led the team in the mid 60's. That's it.
One forgets, or is too young to know, or remember the futility of this team from the late 1960's to the early 1980's. You want to see bad? Check the drafts and the won-loss record during all of the 70's. In those days Wilson had Harvey Johnson running the team. A joke. Modrak has been running the draft since Donahue came in. Look at his abysmal record; i.e. Mike Williams, JP Losman,. How do you take Marshawn Lynch over Adrian Peterson? Lynch is good, but Peterson is spectacular. If you are going to draft a running back, you better move up and draft the right guy. (perhaps they tried, I don't know). The same thing happened with Patrick Willis (San Francisco grabbed him just before we picked) and Paul Polsluzny.
Dick Jauron was laughed out of Chicago. In short, he had no answers as to why his teams failed. He had one good year and the rest were poor. I listened to 3 years of talk radio criticism of him. His schooling, and "gentleman personality" had no bearing on his poor coaching. He went through offensive coordinators like a "lady of the night goes through motel doors". It was non-stop. Each time a coordinator was replaced with someone as poorly qualified as his predecessor.
When they discuss how nice a guy is, instead of how he wins, you have a problem on your hands. I'm interested in winning, not making friends on the field. Give me the guy with the funny hair-sprayed hair, or the fat guy running the team in Miami. They are winners, not "nice-guys". By the way, Lou Saban, our only coach to actually win a championship (in fact 2x), was not a nice guy.
Finally, don't forget that our chief line coach retired this year, and his assistant was named his replacement.
While I admit Mr Ralph Wilson had fishooks in his pockets for the longest time...I still admire him. He did after all hire Bill Polian and the Bills did manage to go to four straight super bowls under him.
...COUGH How many times have the Cleveland browns been to the super bowl ?COUGH...
They made fun of Marv Levy when he was first hired as the Bills head coach,he used the "wing T" at Kansas City while he was head coach.Now he is in the hall of fame!
The problem with the Bills is the head coach is only as good as his assistants, remember Marv hired some great ones.Like Ted Marchibroda to run the offense!!!
The Bills have two rookie coaches in key positions atm, Turk Schonert Offensive coordinator and Sean Kugler Offensive Line Coach and it is showing big time
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I'm starting to hope the Bills O-line can learn how to "cut block",seems like that will be the only way to keep Trent Edwards from getting killed this season.
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Trent has ruined this season with his brilliant consecutive trifecta of losing to the Dolphins, Jets and Patriots. Sorry and no offense pal, but you suck. He's clueless and needs to sit and watch Losman being given his final chance to resurrect his career as a Buffalo Bill.
These last three losses are so historically bad for this franchise that I don't think we here at TSW are even fully aware of the magnitude.
I know LABillsfan is going to give me flack and plenty of others here, but drastic times call for drastic measures. I think Trent has tossed every last bit of 5-1 cache he had with these last three abysmal games against the AFC East division. It's time to shake things up and put a QB in there that can actually get the ball to #83. If Losman fails, then give the ball to Hamden. I'm done with Edwards. You and your head coach can take a hike.
After reading these threads it makes me wonder if we are all watching the same game...
There are other factors to consider.The Bills OC is calling the strangest plays at the most inopportune times,like shotgun on third and one.. THREE FRIKKIN TIMES against the pats and all went incomplete.Schonert is putting Trent is some plays its difficult to succeed in.
The Offense has no running game,again Schonert calls shotgun on first down and then I formation run on second down and 10,makes no sense.
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I have seen some bad offensive lineman in my time, but to see the absolute high school level play, for lack of better words, by Preston/Fowler and Chambers/Whittle is just mind boggling. Just how did these guys make it onto the active roster? Its not just bad---its pathetic. These guys are getting beaten to the point where you just want to go up to the other guy and tell him to cut it out because its just not fair. They look so ridiculous trying to block their opposing players, its almost comical. Its like the kid growing up whose parents forced them to play sports, even though they had no athletic talent, and then they got put in the game and everyone loved to play against them because they were so bad. They work really hard, but you can tell, they just aren't any good. These guys are consistently blocking the sides and backs of their opponents and half the time are falling over because their guys are by them so fast, they lose their balance trying to block and fall forward before catching their balance.
This isn't a joke---go back and watch them attempting to run block in the last 3 or 4 games...I almost started laughing. Among the funniest things I noticed(well, not really funny since I am a Bills fan) was that Preston actually was blocking players INTO the hole numerous times because he had no ability to lock on or sustain a block, and when the player started moving towards where the play was headed, he kept pushing them---only it was right into where the hole was supposed to be. However, the funniest thing was when Preston and Chambers attempted to execute a double team block on Wilfork. Wilfork beat Preston to the inside quickly, causing Preston to lose his balance. Chambers lunged after him to no avail, and both players chased him as he met Lynch 2 or 3 yards behind the line of scrimmage and made the tackle, at which point both Preston and Chambers ran into the pile and fell over it. It was a total Keystone Kops moment where the cops fall all over themselves trying to catch the bad guys. This stuff would be comical if the Bills weren't paying these guys to be professional athletes and perform at a high level. I can understand getting beaten once in a while---it happens to even the best. To get beat on, literally, and I am in no way joking here because I actually watched every running play closely, half----not 1 or 2 plays a game---HALF the running plays resulting an opposing player to be in the backfield before Lynch hits the LOS, is just a freaking joke. This is like a bad high school player trying to play against a really good one...this stuff should not be happening in the NFL. The fact that these guys are suited up and starting in an NFL game is making me sick to my stomach....we could find guys off the street who would do better than that. It almost makes you wish you could have Tuten Rayes, Mike Gandy, Trey Teague or Bennie Anderson back----I don't ever remember them getting beat that badly with such regularity....I know our running game was a lot better then....
Dude its not funny....its kinda sad
Kris Jenkins also had his way,the bills O-line were his bitches.
There are other factors to consider.The Bills OC is calling the strangest plays at the most inopportune times,like shotgun on third and one.. THREE FRIKKIN TIMES against the pats and all went incomplete.Schonert is putting Trent is some plays its difficult to succeed in.
The Offense has no running game,again Schonert calls shotgun on first down and then I formation run on second down and 10,makes no sense.
Trent Edwards
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Or Maybe the rookie Offensive coordinator has his head up his ass. Turk Schonert has been putting Trent Edwards is some difficult situations. Calling the shotgun play most of the time every game. He called the shotgun on 3rd and one three times against the pats,wth is up with that?
The Bills rarely run play action pass which would keep the defense guessing. Schonert wants to keep calling shotgun passing plays which keep getting Edwards hurried,harried,hit and rushed! Either that or the defense drops 8 into coverage and takes Lee Evans away,the rest of the receivers drop the ball or run the wrong routes!!!
Did you happen to notice that Steve Johnson was starting over James Hardy!That's right the 7th rounder got the nod over the 2nd rounder.
Yea nobody on the bills has opened up and said it but Hardy is just like the 49ers tight end Vernon Davis all talent and no brain. His route running stinks and has caused some interceptions!Stick that in your objectivity!