_BiB_ Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 You know, there may be "a bit" more to this than I previously thought... I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong. I was wrong. 104531[/snapback] Appreciate that Chris. Please help spread the word. We all need to be together on this. I hear people speak of their children's future. That's why brave young men and women are dying as we speak. It's not an unnecessary war, and we haven't taken our eye off the ball. You think I make this stevestojan up as I go along? The world is at a critical crossroads. We either deal with it, or put our heads in the sand and let our children deal with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 You think I make this stevestojan up as I go along? 104533[/snapback] I know that's a rhetorical question, but frankly, if most of your posts came from just about anybody else, I would've written them off as partisan blustering. I know you well enough to know that's not your style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 We were playing in a best ball fundraiser at Ford's Colony in Williamsburg. My partner Ed was/is pretty good, so we were playing pretty quickly. We couldn't play through, and after the 3rd hole of waiting (people ahead of us didn't understand the concept of best ball) we started pounding beer. By the 17th, We were ripped, and I got my ride on the firetruck. The marshall wasn't terribly impressed, but given the amount of crap he saw people doing (carts on greens, not raking hazzards, driving at a par 3 while the team ahead was on the green, you know the drill), he didn't say much to me. Just shook his head and rolled his eyes. Ed's wife (Teresa's boss) had to drive up from Va Bch and get us home. On the way home, I think we were somewhere around Newport News when she expressed the desire "to choke your drunk asses." 104520[/snapback] That's really pretty funny. Having a Caddyshack flash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuntheDamnBall Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Another scary thing is 50 years from now. Think before you reply folks. In 50 years or so the middle east is going to run out or run very low on oil. They have no other economic value. If these guys don't start reinventing themselves and bring something else to the table, things will be a thousand times worse than it is now. 104518[/snapback] Oh, but they do. Look around, these people are obviously not resting on their laurels. They are part of the ENERGY trade now, not just the oil trade, and have diversified, since it is an enormous and lucrative industry. For example, what used to be Niagara Mohawk and is now National Grid is owned by an English corp. with Saudi interests. The power structure will remain pretty similar regardless of the commodity. Many of these people are not idiots -- they see the writing on the wall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 We were playing in a best ball fundraiser at Ford's Colony in Williamsburg. My partner Ed was/is pretty good, so we were playing pretty quickly. We couldn't play through, and after the 3rd hole of waiting (people ahead of us didn't understand the concept of best ball) we started pounding beer. By the 17th, We were ripped, and I got my ride on the firetruck. The marshall wasn't terribly impressed, but given the amount of crap he saw people doing (carts on greens, not raking hazzards, driving at a par 3 while the team ahead was on the green, you know the drill), he didn't say much to me. Just shook his head and rolled his eyes. Ed's wife (Teresa's boss) had to drive up from Va Bch and get us home. On the way home, I think we were somewhere around Newport News when she expressed the desire "to choke your drunk asses." 104520[/snapback] Sounds like a reunion at the Auburn Country Club is needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 This is why Iraq is key. And Khoffi doesn't want us blowing up poor old Fallujah. That happy little coalition of pirates want this mess to go on as long as possible, because it allows them that much more time to undermine anything we and our allies try to do. Every day we bleed is another day for them, and for the uprising of protest within our own nations. Ice talks about the economy. Ice, if you are out there this IS about the economy. If this doesn't work out right, there won't even be one in ten years. 104525[/snapback] Good grief. This is starting to sound like paranoia. They're all out to get us - the French, the Germans, the UN, the Democrats ..... Maybe, just maybe, Annan recognises that the assault on Fallujah is going to make a bad situation far worse. How's Samarra looking now that it has been "pacified"? As the Iraqi President, Ghazi Al-Yawir, put it "attacking Fallujah is like shooting your horse in the head because there is a fly on it". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 Good grief. This is starting to sound like paranoia. They're all out to get us - the French, the Germans, the UN, the Democrats ..... Maybe, just maybe, Annan recognises that the assault on Fallujah is going to make a bad situation far worse. How's Samarra looking now that it has been "pacified"? As the Iraqi President, Ghazi Al-Yawir, put it "attacking Fallujah is like shooting your horse in the head because there is a fly on it". 104545[/snapback] It's not Fallujah, it's what's within it. I liken it to Afghanistan, South. Lot's of "Bad Guys" holed up there. They can give up and join in the rebuilding of Iraq, or they can die. Baath loyalists still working for Sadaam and the POS Zarqaui. I would dearly love to see that resolved diplomatically. But it's gotten to the point where it's not a good idea to let them slip quietly into the night to set up housekeeping somewhere else. It's not paranoia, it's understanding that everyone is doing things in their own self interest. Chirac loves to see an undermined, weakened America, as it gives him impetus through the UN to consolidate his power base in hopes of being king of the EU, which is the only viable counterpunch to the US in terms of global influence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paco Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Threads like this are quickly going the way of dodo. Good reading, gentlemen. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campy Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Sounds like a reunion at the Auburn Country Club is needed. 104544[/snapback] That sounds like a good idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark VI Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Threads like this are quickly going the way of dodo. Good reading, gentlemen. Thanks. 104551[/snapback] That's because it requires more than sound bites and name calling. Eliminates a lot of posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chicot Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 It's not Fallujah, it's what's within it. I liken it to Afghanistan, South. Lot's of "Bad Guys" holed up there. They can give up and join in the rebuilding of Iraq, or they can die. Baath loyalists still working for Sadaam and the POS Zarqaui. I would dearly love to see that resolved diplomatically. But it's gotten to the point where it's not a good idea to let them slip quietly into the night to set up housekeeping somewhere else. It's not paranoia, it's understanding that everyone is doing things in their own self interest. Chirac loves to see an undermined, weakened America, as it gives him impetus through the UN to consolidate his power base in hopes of being king of the EU, which is the only viable counterpunch to the US in terms of global influence. 104548[/snapback] The things is these cities cannot be pacified. The US simply does not have enough men to garrison all the rebellious cities. Look at Samarra - the US bombarded it, killed a lot of civilians, probably a small amount of rebels, announced it was "pacified" and then a few weeks later the rebels regroup and things are more or less back to the way they were. Who knows if Zarqawi is even in Fallujah? If he isn't then demanding that they give him up is an impossible condition. As I understand it, the Fallujans were willing to allow Iraqi National Guard units to enter the city, but were adamant that there should be no US presence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_BiB_ Posted November 6, 2004 Author Share Posted November 6, 2004 The things is these cities cannot be pacified. The US simply does not have enough men to garrison all the rebellious cities. Look at Samarra - the US bombarded it, killed a lot of civilians, probably a small amount of rebels, announced it was "pacified" and then a few weeks later the rebels regroup and things are more or less back to the way they were. Who knows if Zarqawi is even in Fallujah? If he isn't then demanding that they give him up is an impossible condition. As I understand it, the Fallujans were willing to allow Iraqi National Guard units to enter the city, but were adamant that there should be no US presence. 104581[/snapback] It's a mess we brought on ourselves. No one wanted to admit we were involved in an actual counter insurgency operation until it was too late. That said, what's done is done. Things just can't go on the way they are. I'd be all for the Iraqi National Guard if they could be trusted. At this point in time, they can't. I'm hoping that once Fallujah gets cleaned out, we go away and let them police it. It's a step. No one wants it to be this way, but Coaltion forces now realize much better just what it is they are fighting. Itmay be hard, next to impossible, but it's going back to hearts and minds along with bullets and bombs. But nothing is going to get accomplished unless a good deal of the bad guys get taken down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Oh, but they do. Look around, these people are obviously not resting on their laurels. They are part of the ENERGY trade now, not just the oil trade, and have diversified, since it is an enormous and lucrative industry. For example, what used to be Niagara Mohawk and is now National Grid is owned by an English corp. with Saudi interests. The power structure will remain pretty similar regardless of the commodity. Many of these people are not idiots -- they see the writing on the wall. 104543[/snapback] Oh you're right some do. UAE, the royal family in SA, Pakistan is starting to come around, even Libya. That's the point, they are asking for help to make it happen, they are supporting these effort to a point, but you have to realize they have to sell "ALL" of their people of these ideas over time. In the meantime they need help rooting out the bad guys and not looking like the bad guys themselves or they loose credibility with their people. As I said and as Paul said, we have people looking 20-40 years down the road. The effects of this may not be fully known until then. We will make mistakes, and yes it may cost some loves in the short term. But it will save millions or billions of lives in the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted November 6, 2004 Share Posted November 6, 2004 Threads like this are quickly going the way of dodo. Good reading, gentlemen. Thanks. 104551[/snapback] ditto Carry on............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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