Sisyphean Bills Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 No, he would be an insane choice over Williams. Pass rushing defensive ends are extremely hard to get, especially big ones. Are you seriously telling us that you would prefer any tight end in football to Julius Peppers? This is who Mario is being compared to. 664338[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Williams is not likely to fall to the Bills, and even if he was around at the 8th pich I think Davis would be a pretty good choice. Look at team like the Falcons, Cheifs, and Chargers. The main reason why they are so good is because of thier TE, except for the Falcons who have both a good DE and TE. Either way taking a TE is a must for the Bills. How long has it been since the Bills had a quality TE like an Antonio Gates......... 664244[/snapback] Didn't you start this thread outraged at the notion of the Bills selecting a TE over a DT?! Now you think they should take VD (I know that sounds bad) over Super Mario? Holy reversal, Batman! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Didn't you start this thread outraged at the notion of the Bills selecting a TE over a DT?! Now you think they should take VD (I know that sounds bad) over Super Mario? Holy reversal, Batman! 664356[/snapback] Actually he said.... I think it's a good choice. Even if he did, what's wrong with people taking in more information, reassessing something & changing their opinion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Actually he said....Even if he did, what's wrong with people taking in more information, reassessing something & changing their opinion? 664359[/snapback] He changed the first post to reflect his new position. It originally said: "Are you serious?! We neet a DT!" There is nothing wrong with changing your mind at all. But to go from being so against selecting a TE that you feel the need to start a thread about it, to suddenly believing that VD is superior to Mario Williams (the best player in the draft) is astounding. Especially when you make that transition in less than 48 hours. I am all for people re-evaluating positions, but both of these assertions are slightly ridiculous to begin with. That's the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'm all for taking Davis because after looking at the draft around #8 he would be the best player available (according to most mock drafts), but if a guy like Mario Williams is there at #8, he is the pick cause Davis is no longer the Best Player available. Although I would take a good look at Williams or any top 5 guy who drops to 8 before drafting them to figure out why the dropped that far down Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CosmicBills Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 I'm all for taking Davis because after looking at the draft around #8 he would be the best player available (according to most mock drafts), but if a guy like Mario Williams is there at #8, he is the pick cause Davis is no longer the Best Player available. Although I would take a good look at Williams or any top 5 guy who drops to 8 before drafting them to figure out why the dropped that far down 664401[/snapback] Absolutely. Though most of this discussion is a bit moot since it's unlikely VD will be there at 8 for the Bills to pick. I'm not a draft expert at all, but I think it's safe to say for certain there are TWO players guaranteed NOT to be there at 8 no matter what happens: Bush and Williams. Everyone else could potentially slip depending on how many QBs go before 8 etc. I am hoping for Davis to slide to 8, though I'm not banking on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted April 18, 2006 Share Posted April 18, 2006 Williams is not likely to fall to the Bills, and even if he was around at the 8th pich I think Davis would be a pretty good choice. Look at team like the Falcons, Cheifs, and Chargers. The main reason why they are so good is because of thier TE, except for the Falcons who have both a good DE and TE. Either way taking a TE is a must for the Bills. How long has it been since the Bills had a quality TE like an Antonio Gates......... 664244[/snapback] Every time Vick starts to scramble he looks for the Mighty Crumpler. Talk about a security blanket. The guys like a human wrecking ball with hands!!! If you can be convinced LSI , maybe Levy is at least considering what a Vernon Davis could do for the team. He knows someone has to fill Moulds big shoes. You can't take away from an already hurting offense without helping it . Takeo's return will be like a breath of fresh air with bad intentions!!! THe heart of the defense will be back!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know about you guys , for a rebuilding year , I'm looking forward to it !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oneonta Buffalo Fan Posted April 18, 2006 Author Share Posted April 18, 2006 Every time Vick starts to scramble he looks for the Mighty Crumpler. Talk about a security blanket. The guys like a human wrecking ball with hands!!! If you can be convinced LSI , maybe Levy is at least considering what a Vernon Davis could do for the team. He knows someone has to fill Moulds big shoes. You can't take away from an already hurting offense without helping it . Takeo's return will be like a breath of fresh air with bad intentions!!! THe heart of the defense will be back!!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't know about you guys , for a rebuilding year , I'm looking forward to it !!! 664582[/snapback] I think everyone is looking forward to this rebuilding year my friend. THis is what we've been waiting for, for the past 5 years now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 I think everyone is looking forward to this rebuilding year my friend. THis is what we've been waiting for, for the past 5 years now. 664843[/snapback] I Was watching Vernon Davis in the college Football All-star challenge , he didn't win but I loved the way he hustled. Strikes me as a real hard worker. Doesn't come as a surprise , Vince Young steals the show!!! What an athlete!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton's Arm Posted April 19, 2006 Share Posted April 19, 2006 These points really present a superficial examination which does not match some good posts you have done in the past. You raise the issue of other ways to address the OL besides just first-day draft picks; mentioning 2nd day picks and free agency. I'll address these two issues separately. Second Day Draft Picks While it's too early to evaluate the 2nd day picks from 2005, we can look at the guys from 2001 - 2004. I believe I'm correct in saying that only three players from the second day of those drafts are still with the team: McGee, Euhus, and Aiken. Given that 21 players were chosen during that timeframe, you're looking at a 1/7 chance of any given pick working out. Other teams also experience low success percentages for their second day picks, which is why picks in later rounds have so much less trade value than do earlier picks. From 2001 - 2004, TD used seven 2nd day picks on offensive skill players, as opposed to just four picks on offensive linemen. While this isn't as bad as his ratio on the first day of the draft, it's still not the 6:5 skill:OL ratio you'd expect to see based simply on the number of players on the field. Free Agency Typically, successful teams build mostly through the draft, and use free agency to acquire the last few pieces of the puzzle. This is especially true for offensive linemen, because continuity is so important to having a good line. The goal is to draft a given OL, and have him spend his entire career with your team. This creates continuity. Too often, the alternative is what the Bills experienced with Chris Villarrial. One of the best available free agent OL the year he was signed, Villarrial provided just two good years for the Bills. After an injury-plagued year this past season, his position has become a question mark. Unless you can sign an offensive lineman at a very early point in his career--as the 49ers did with Jennings--it's going to be very difficult to achieve continuity on the OL by using free agency. Assuming your free agent OL have the same 3 year longevity as Villarrial, you're looking at replacing an average of nearly two OL each year. Not only will your OL have high turnover, it will constantly have to endure poor play from veterans who, like Villarrial, faded fast. Overall, TD's investments in the OL have tended to be minimal. More often than not, he'd choose to draft the OL on the second day of the draft than on the first day. As for free agent signings, he often went after cheaper players like Anderson or Gandy, instead of breaking the bank on more expensive OL. His minimal investments brought minimal returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted April 21, 2006 Share Posted April 21, 2006 You raise the issue of other ways to address the OL besides just first-day draft picks; mentioning 2nd day picks and free agency. I'll address these two issues separately. Second Day Draft Picks While it's too early to evaluate the 2nd day picks from 2005, we can look at the guys from 2001 - 2004. I believe I'm correct in saying that only three players from the second day of those drafts are still with the team: McGee, Euhus, and Aiken. Given that 21 players were chosen during that timeframe, you're looking at a 1/7 chance of any given pick working out. Other teams also experience low success percentages for their second day picks, which is why picks in later rounds have so much less trade value than do earlier picks. From 2001 - 2004, TD used seven 2nd day picks on offensive skill players, as opposed to just four picks on offensive linemen. While this isn't as bad as his ratio on the first day of the draft, it's still not the 6:5 skill:OL ratio you'd expect to see based simply on the number of players on the field. Free Agency Typically, successful teams build mostly through the draft, and use free agency to acquire the last few pieces of the puzzle. This is especially true for offensive linemen, because continuity is so important to having a good line. The goal is to draft a given OL, and have him spend his entire career with your team. This creates continuity. Too often, the alternative is what the Bills experienced with Chris Villarrial. One of the best available free agent OL the year he was signed, Villarrial provided just two good years for the Bills. After an injury-plagued year this past season, his position has become a question mark. Unless you can sign an offensive lineman at a very early point in his career--as the 49ers did with Jennings--it's going to be very difficult to achieve continuity on the OL by using free agency. Assuming your free agent OL have the same 3 year longevity as Villarrial, you're looking at replacing an average of nearly two OL each year. Not only will your OL have high turnover, it will constantly have to endure poor play from veterans who, like Villarrial, faded fast. Overall, TD's investments in the OL have tended to be minimal. More often than not, he'd choose to draft the OL on the second day of the draft than on the first day. As for free agent signings, he often went after cheaper players like Anderson or Gandy, instead of breaking the bank on more expensive OL. His minimal investments brought minimal returns. 665694[/snapback] One things for certain , More attention will be given to the O-line under Levy's watch. How he goes about it remains to be seen, While the odds may be slightly against you, I believe good quality players are still possible on the 2nd day. Its hard to put O-line above some of the more skilled positions, but on the other hand, most of the skilled players are useless if your QB is running for his life on every play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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