Fake-Fat Sunny Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Cliff notes begin: TD really got canned not because of one immediate event but because of five total years without making the playoffs. MM could not be canned because RWS owed him about $3 million, but while he clearly bears no blame for the GW faux pas, he quit rather than be in the position of firing his friends (Clements already maybe Wyche to come) cleaning up the mess TD made the last 5 years. It simply ignores too much reality and history to try to blame JP for what clearly involved much bigger problems and issues than one player. Cliff notes end. I think it is too simplistic to try to lay blame on one person for the firing/quitting (TD/MM) or to try to explain all of this as a force on oneside which had one vision and a force on the other side which had a conflicting vision. Fox News may have a view of the world that there are but two forces good vs, evil on any impoertant issue, but the real world is more complicated than that with the various forces involved really having a tangled web of alliances and problems with each other that in the end just could not stay on the same page with the pressure of the Bills lousy record. As best as I can tell the forces were: RWS- The primary force as the owner who really entrusted TD to run the team for 5 years, but in the end, this alliance went south because TD did not produce a winning record and his plan for doing so really had a potential but not likely chance for success (simply a winning record and maybe a playoff berth for us) next year. He fired TD because the future is now for this old man. TD- The primary implementer who made three fatal errors (amongst the great/good/bad moves) dyrubg his reign of error. These mistakes were: 1. Choosing GW over Fox and Lewis (though if he wanted Lewis it appears he really would have had to suck up to him and his wife to convince them to come here and TD was not going to give the keys to the kingdom to an HC after Cowher ran him out of Pitts). 2. Extending Bledsoe after he was a wash his first two seasons with a great year in 2002 and a horrendous year in 2003. TD should have counted his blessings and made the split then, but he did not and really bound his future to Bledsoe's play by giving him a bonus to extend him. 3. The thrid error was reversing field and cutting Bledsoe. This was a mistake not because Bledsoe was capable of leading the Bills to the playoffs (he certainly was not capable of leading the Bills there over Pitts in 04 or the 'Boys in '05 though he had a good enough season to further cement his eventually making the HOF by putting up a winning record), Once TD made the dumb decision to extend Bledsoe he should have stuck with it. As it was he created the worst of two worlds with Bledsoe being a part of killing us in 04 and Jp being a significant part of killing us in 05. At any rate, RWS finally had to make him account for his failure to make the playoffs and TD had not been able to lead his chosen group to playoff success. MM- His situation in many ways is the least tenable of three lead guys as he is the least in control of the situation of the three. TD's firing meant that some head hads to roll in addition to his. However, MM's was owed 3 years so his head was not gonna roll. He in essence had to make a choice between staying here and collecting his million a year until RWS decided to pay him when he was gone, OR because staying here now meant he would be less in control and part of his job was gonna be to fire the one's he brought here (TD was no longer around to protect his gang) it simply ceated a bad world for MM. I can see that he decided to quit as staying meant he would have to do his job and his job already meant firing scapegoat Clements and might one day soon mean firing Wyche and others he cared about because they did not agree with Marv. This is not to say one side is right or one side is wrong (that simply is not how reality is convenient enough to make it that easy) but that the dynamic of the Bills organization changed from disagreements between MM/Clement, JMac/Clements. etc from being a stimulating challenges to find the best answer from this honest disagreements to folks running the risk or lifelihood of getting canned if they disagreed with The Golden Boys. I think that MM ended up being forced to do a variety of things like taking the O playcalling away from Clements which were simply uncomfortable things for him to do regardless of whether this move was dictated by Ralph, TD, or MM hinself. Ukimately, this is a long winded (photoned) way of answering your question. I do not think JP is (or judges) at fault for the TD/MM firing/quitting because there were simply much bigger issues which drove these events. JP's failure was certainly a part of TD's demise and ultimately MM's demise at a Bill. However, the die began to be cast for these exits right from the start whn TD screwed up picking GW over Fox and Lewis. I do not think one can rationally blame JP for these errors which were not the immediate reason's TD got fired but clearly were a big part of his equation of failure that got him canned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattypro89 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 JP gotta feel like he is the reason that both MM & TD got fired. How could he not feel this way . If he plays lights out and we have a winning record or at least hope for next year, I think MM and TD would have not been fired. 8-8 and a decent finnish and they prolly wouldnt get the ax. JP was given the keys to the car and crashed it , not only did he crash, its looks like he never got his learner permit . Was he the worst QB in the league last year ? Maybe not but he was damm close . If we go 9-7 with JP , MM and TD are now thinking about draft . I personally think that if we had a more experienced coach last year then our record would have been better as would JPs devolpement. Bill Parcells had a press confrence about mid-season . I think it was when the cowgirls beat KC and openned up the offense . A reporter asked him why he dosent open up the offense more often . His reply was that in his coaching experience , coaches who always " go for it " tend not to stick around . Remember MM after the miami game trying to explain why JP threw a pass on first and goal . " I was just trying to go 4 it " . What about trying to run it and maybe give your struggling RB a boost. So JP if you are reading this , yes you did suck last year but the season was lost because of the philosophy of our coaches and a crappy GM ! 572377[/snapback] yea we gave him the kets, but took them away and gave them back and then took them away again. this kids head has gotta be so messed up we never gave hiom a fighting chance. i would like to believe hes got a chance to be real good. so i say its not his fault couse we also had a crap defense, somewhat due to injuries, but also had no run game, which was not JPs fault couse Holcom didnt help it all. give the kid another chance, a real chance next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMIEBUF12 Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 why would he think that? i think he is thinking well if mike had played me more after the 1st benching maybe we woulda won 2 more games! jp is probably also thinking how he should be lucky all he has to do to impress the new coach is work hard this off season and really focus on the things that kelly holcomb is better than him right now......................reading defenses. jp wins the qb race by the 3rd week of training camp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cr8ZyA$$BillsFaNnTexas Posted January 18, 2006 Author Share Posted January 18, 2006 Well, was it coaching, the GM-VP, or was it JP? Seems you've taken multiple views. Personally, JP's play surely didn't help TD & MM, but they created the mess, not JP. Also, JP had nothing to do with the collapse of the defense..... 572573[/snapback] The first paragraph of my original post was about what ? JP and if he thinks that his playing QB cost the coaches/gm there jobs . The second paragraph clearly states my opinion and that was the coaching was a factor in our crappy season . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 JP gotta feel like he is the reason that both MM & TD got fired. 572377[/snapback] I wouldn't think so. In contrast to his portrayed "like wow, dude, surf's up and I'm the big Kahuna" persona, the young man showed to me to be a decent sort who played as hard as his abilities allow. He might not pan out, but he's shown me, at least, that he's not a putz. I won't hang the workings and problems of higher-ups on him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsObserver Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 try telling that to a football brain dead guy like pac pie 572431[/snapback] please make some sense. and it's pacpie. pronounced PAHK-PIE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1billsfan Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 JP gotta feel like he is the reason that both MM & TD got fired. How could he not feel this way . If he plays lights out and we have a winning record or at least hope for next year, I think MM and TD would have not been fired. 8-8 and a decent finnish and they prolly wouldnt get the ax. JP was given the keys to the car and crashed it , not only did he crash, its looks like he never got his learner permit . Was he the worst QB in the league last year ? Maybe not but he was damm close . If we go 9-7 with JP , MM and TD are now thinking about draft . I personally think that if we had a more experienced coach last year then our record would have been better as would JPs devolpement. Bill Parcells had a press confrence about mid-season . I think it was when the cowgirls beat KC and openned up the offense . A reporter asked him why he dosent open up the offense more often . His reply was that in his coaching experience , coaches who always " go for it " tend not to stick around . Remember MM after the miami game trying to explain why JP threw a pass on first and goal . " I was just trying to go 4 it " . What about trying to run it and maybe give your struggling RB a boost. So JP if you are reading this , yes you did suck last year but the season was lost because of the philosophy of our coaches and a crappy GM ! 572377[/snapback] No. Losman knows he had a part in the teams bad year, but he's not stupid enough to buy into what you're suggesting. JP had to play QB behind TD's JV offensive line he built. JP was yanked by MM the first sign the team was heading for losses with him at QB instead of showing faith and letting him win the games and win over his teamates. Do I have to mention the defense? Didn't think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mattypro89 Posted January 19, 2006 Share Posted January 19, 2006 why would he think that? i think he is thinking well if mike had played me more after the 1st benching maybe we woulda won 2 more games! jp is probably also thinking how he should be lucky all he has to do to impress the new coach is work hard this off season and really focus on the things that kelly holcomb is better than him right now......................reading defenses. jp wins the qb race by the 3rd week of training camp. 572618[/snapback] thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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