DFITZ1
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Posts posted by DFITZ1
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DISCLAIMER: I have not seen last night's game.
I understand that the first string of the 2011 Buffalo Bills did not perform particularly well in the modified scrimmage that took place in Denver last evening. It appears that certain players struggled.
Every year we have fans who draw one of the following two conclusions from such a performance:
(A) The Bills suck! $%&%$@#!!! I'm so done with this team!
(B) Relax! It's preseason and the gameplans are "vanilla" (if I had a nickel for every time I heard the word vanilla during preseason I'd be a wealthy man).
The truth, my friends, lies somewhere in the middle. If certain positions or players look overmatched, there are definitely concerns. That said, I've seen a lot of ugliness in the preseason thus far from a number of supposedly pretty good teams (FYI, the Eagles' starting offense and defense looked miserable Thursday night). I'm pretty certain a lot of positions are still being contested on the Bills roster, and everything is being geared towards getting the team ready for KC on 9/11 -- which is still three weeks away.
I'm not suggesting fans shouldn't be disappointed by what happened on the field in Denver, but history has shown that what occurs during preseason is rarely what occurs when the real games begin. By way of example, I recall Fitz' quote prior to this week's game. He said he hoped the Bills would get some productive work done, but in the very same sentence he stated it was a GOAL to not have anyone injured. Does anyone think this is the same mentality a team goes into the regular season with?
I'm not saying the Bills will be "fine" or that there isn't a lot of work to do; I just believe far too many fans read far too much into these scrimmages.
Well said, and backed up by Gailey's comments in Mark Gaughan's blog in the Buffalo Snooze. Gailey purposely played a base defense (no blitz's_ for the purpose of assessing strengths and weaknesses. Also, the o-line was not to chip or slide (prevents o-line injury, but I'm sure Fitz doesn't feel great about this). Once reading Gailey's comments, you know this was more a scrimmage than a game (like the OP mentioned) and it's not the right time to condemn the team.
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I only read the play by play. TG I didn't see it. It sounds like a colossal lack of effort. No long passes, non-aggressive. My only comment is fans should not react like Wall St and sell off this team based on one pre-season game. Heck, last year we thought Edwards was good in pre-season and look what happened. Give these guys a chance to digest the film from this debacle and get back on course.
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Has anyone realized that having a robust WNY economy is the only viable means of keeping the Bills in Buffalo long term? Regionalization towards Syracuse and Toronto are vital until then. Demanding that some billionaire white-knight come along, spend his hard earned fortune to buy and operate the team in an econimically shrinking region is a pipe dream. Until that is reversed, having the Toronto games is smart business (just have them in December when a dome is a good idea, giving up games at RWS thru the 2nd week of November is bad business).
The way to keep the Bills in WNY is the same as necessary to keep the population from shrinking, demand your local and state polticians lower taxes and regulations to rebuild the economic base. The state passing a responsible budget (i.e income equals expenses) is a start but not an end.
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He made one horrendous call, which, unfortunately has branded him...similar to wrong way Marshall's bad moment. If you examine the body of work though, a different conclusion would be drawn. A man should not be judged harshly for one bad day, unless of course it's O.J.
Well said. I could add that Leon Lett got branded after Don Beebe chased him down and spoiled his hotdogging moment. For anyone criticizing refs, it's easier to ref from the stands or he TV chair, than when the whistle is in your hand. After being forced to fill-in for absent refs in youth and adult rec sports, I got a new appreciation for what they do. It's not as easy as it looks.
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question on fitz's contract. how long is he under contract? is there a sense that he wants to remain a bill after his contract is up? is levi brown a serious possibility to run the team?
I never knew the Bills had a QB named Fitzgibbons? Did he come out of Belfast?
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Have actually seen Peterson play?
You're just as likely to find a solid pass rusher in the 2nd round as you are at the top of the first, and there is no clear cut QB worth taking at 3. Our secondary is equally depleted as our pass rushing at the moment and you do not want to be relying on McGee who is aging VERY quickly and an inconsistent McKelvin. Patterson can be our Revis and at the same time letting our pass rushers get more time to get after the QB. There shouldn't even be a moment in our heads where we completely throw out the idea of drafting this kid IMO. We're in need of stars and guys who have no questions coming in. He IM0 is the closest thing to a sure thing as there is of the top 5 available players.
The Bills have "over-drafted" at secondary and RB through the naughts. Unless we effectively draft a OT, DL or LB in the first round, we will be drafting #3 next year. Remember 1st round guys like Bruce Smith and Cornelius Bennett (drafted in rd1 and traded to us)? That's how the 90's defense got solidified, among others. Imagine the Bills if the "lack-of-brains trust" had drafted Clay Matthews instead of Aaron Maybin, or imagine the Packers if they had not taken Matthews. Since the Bills either drafted the wrong position, or drafted the right position with the wrong person, it confounds the mind predicting an outcome.
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Ok, DFITZ1, this one's a little off subject but, bet you don't remember the Stith brothers, Tom & Sam from the early 60's St. Bonaventure basketball program.
I'm afraid not. I was way too young then. My fate was I didn't start following the Bills until '66, so I just missed the championship years, though I have vague memories of warching the '65 Championship. However, I do remember Johnny Bench vriefly playing for the baseball Bisons.
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Anybody remember seeing Calvin Murphy during halftime as part of the Niagara University's Purple Eagle Marching Band? He was their baton twirler I think?
I remember seeing him twirling on TV but I don't remember if it was at a football game or not (probably was). That brings up another great Buffalo sports moment. Calvin Murphy, Bob Lanier, and Randy Smith all played college hoops at the same time in WNY. 3 NBA stars all at once! (Would've been nice if the Braves drafted Lanier!).
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i remember that game when the bills beat the 49ers in 72. john brodie was the qb for the 49ers, they were actually favored to beat the bills and the bills came out and stung them. i remember the big tight end we drafted from ohio state, jan white, have a decent day. the one thing about war memorial was the 45 thousand sounded incredibly loud, the stadium was known for being loud, much like memorial stadium in baltimore was, in the those days.
One more thing about the 49er's game. John Brodie was either taken out or injured late in that game and his back up - none other than Steve Spurrier!
DFITZ1, thanks for making the effort of posting those photos. Great color. I attended a few games at the Rockpile in 1966 - 67. I was in my last 2 years in high school then. After that, 4 yrs in the Air force as I didn't want to be drafted. College as a deferment wasn't an option as I wasn't college material. I'd wear the same clothes to games as I'd wear to school. There were no Bills jerseys, hats, ect.,ect., back then. Today, kids dress for school in team jerseys, hats, ect., ect. The ying and yang of things. Just thought I'd bring in a little socialogy of the times then & now.
I don't have any real wild beer stories per se to tell about the R-pile. Yeah it was a rickety old place. But I was thrilled to watch our Bills live. I was from a small town in the far eastern part of Niagara county. My older brother and I & a couple of his buds would go in on this package deal where we would drive to some bar outside of Lockport, get on this tour bus, and it would take us to the stadium, pick us up after the game & return to that bar. With those few games I attended then, I saw a home opener against the Jets w/ Joe Namath. And believe it or not, on one pass play, he did one of those jump-passes!! That must have been before his knees were REALLY bad. Saw a Bronco game when they had those orange & blue helmets w/ that corny looking white horse bucking up. In the middle of the field it would be so chewed up that dust would get kicked up & that dust cloud would be as high as the players. Geat times, great memories. I'm glad I grew up to see those & many other great sports events.
Glad you like the pics, and glad you could share some great memories. It may not have been a "state-of-the-art" venue, but thank God it was there when needed to get the franchise started. We wouldn't have the 90's AFC Championship stories at the Ralph today, if not for the AFL championship days at the Rockpile.
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Some of my friends and I knew Shorty Lalonde. He used to drive the Zamboni at Bison games. He did equipment and skate sharpening too. I remember on Mondays after school, they'd open up the Aud for kids to go and skate during hockey season.It was a glorious time. I also remember Spikes swallowing his tongue and convulsing. I think it was while playing the Jets at Shea. The thing I remember most about Ernie was his huge hands. If you haven't seen it already, you might enjoy this: youtube.com/watch?v=HeQYK59rMmY&feature=related
Great U-tube link! Thank you.
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Great photos. I became a Bills fan in 1963 as they detroyed the NY Jets at old Shea Stadium in the first football game my dad took me to. Everyone with us was jets fans as we got free tix from Leon Hess as guys in my neighborhood worked at the Hess oil refiner where I grew up in NJ. Only thing was after seeing Gilchrist and the Bills destroy the Jets is that I was hooked on them and have never stopped in 47 years. Now my 2 boys also are hooked and we go to Buffalo once a year in addition to NJ when the Bills are in town. Great photos of the old goal posts on the goal line. Those were the days. I also remember the game that the opposition claimed that Gogo was offsides on his KOs and the refs called it twice or so one game as his plant foot was over the 40 yard line on his plant. Not sure if this was 1964 or 1963. Rememeber Tom Day extending his arm to the QB after a sack to help him up. Those were the days of Tracy, Jacobs Stratton, best LBs ever. Sestak, Day, Dunaway, Byrd, edgerson, Saimes, etc. real tough players who played for pride , not $.
My first game at WMS was in '68 where Darryl Lamonica and the Raiders flattened the Bills 48-6 and Joel Collier was fired as HC the next day (though he was a tremondous DC, including years afterward for Denver and the Pats). However, I was jealous of my brother who went to WMS a week or 2 later and watched Joe Namath and teh Jets get embarrassed by teh Bills who had about 5 int's. That's teh year the Jets won SBIII and lost only 2 games, and it was to the 2 worst in the AFL.
I was at the last game at WMS against Detroit (17-17) and saw OJ make his longest run of his career against the Steelers. 94 yards into the tunnel (Pit won anyway). Speaking of the tunnel, you could get up pretty close to the players coming out onto the field.
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Great pictures.
The photos are actually from November 1, 1964 - Houston at Buffalo.
Pete Gogolak (#3) was on the team in 1964 and 1965.
Walt Cudzik (#53, far left of second photo) was on the the team in 1964 only. The Bills did not have a #53 in 1965.
#20 is Bobby Smith, a backup running back who played in 1964 and 1965.
I had an inkling feeling I had the wrong year. I was going to check the date out but never got around to it. Thanks for doing so, I'll change the title. At least I got the right era!
I loved the Courier Express! Writers like Phil Ranallo and Paul Jayes, and I think Charlie Barton was the best hockey writer ever in the city of Buffalo.
And also Jim Peters. I know a guy at work who worked with at the Courier for a short time in the 60's and he went with Jim Peters to training camp when it was held in Blasdell. With the writers mentioned, as well as Jim Kelley and Larry Felser, Buffalo was blessed with first class sportswriters.
Thanks for sharing the pics! Those are cool! I'm too young to have seen a game at War Memorial Stadium.
That is something I really used to think was cool about Rich Stadium. Here little old Buffalo led the league in attendance for so many years, partly due to the fact that we had one of the biggest stadiums in the league for a very long time.
Sadly, we live in the day and age when it's more about luxury boxes and branding rather than about filling the seats with loyal, die-hard fans (and it's not just football).
Selling out Rich Stadium on a regular basis was a surprise to RWS. His idea was to build with all the seats you can, since at the time, all home games were blacked out. When the Bills started selling out even with blackouts lifted, the Bills checked where all the fans were coming from, and found out that they had a sizable contingent from Rochester; hence, regionalization of the Bills dates back to those early Rich Stadium days.
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Memories! Nice pix.
Only went to the Rockpile once as a lad, but I'll never forget the obstructed views (roof overhang supports) while trying to watch the game.
I remember watching the Bills beat the 49er's thru those beams in '72 (I think). While they were a slight pain, there were days when that roof at WMS was so welcome when teh rain (or snow) came down in sheets.
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I was going to games then. This pic is taken from the end zone whose seats started just above field level and slowly rose up. They were not near as steep as the end zone in the background. In those days they did not have nets to catch the ball after PATs or FG's so when the balls went into the stands whoever caught it kept it. But getting the ball was complete mayhem. Not only were the balls in the air but fists, elbows and knees...anything goes for a free AFL football. Seldom did the guy who caught the ball wind up with it and almost always came up from the pile covered in blood. What a riot. You think it's tough in the end zone at the Ralph? Bunch of pu$$ies compared to back in the day. And nobody got thrown out of the game then. Beer was served in bottles, all the men had a flask of booze. Parking was on the front lawn of the homes in the Fruit Belt. And Cookie Gilchrist had LOOKIE LOOKIE HERE COMES COOKIE stenciled on the side of his Caddy.
I sat in that end zone for a Bills-Broncos game in '69. The Bills won big and that end zone was active for ball hogs. I do recall security sometimes coming by to take the ball back (to much displeasure). I went left to get ready for a kick, but stayed too far back. But like you said, better I didn't. If I came home all bloodied my parents wouldn't let me there again (oh, yes, my brother and I went with another family).
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They really are excellent!..........I know that kid in a candy store feeling. I love finding old pics (never found any as cool as those, though) and old newspapers.
It's neat seeing the scoreboard advertisements when M&T boasted itself as Manufacturer's and Traders Trust Co and the Buffalo News was the Buffalo Evening News (it was the BEN in WBEN before it became WIVB). Though, I preferred the Courier-Express because my father worked there.
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Those are classic pictures!
Glad you like them. I was like a kid in a candy store when we found them. Getting a good slide scanner was key, too. This is from an Epson V500. It has a really good digital "cleaner" on it that removes dust and particle spots, except, it blurred out the player numbers so I scanned without that filter. It works great on virtually all others.
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That's pretty damn cool. Well before my time, though.
My first Bills game was in the Rockpile about 5 years after this picture was taken. Darryl Lamonica was on the field but as an Oakland Raider and they ran over the Bills in brutal fashion. It wasn't unexpected, but seeing a game there on a warm, sunny September day with 45000 fans filling the seats was still a big thrill.
It all began somewhere.
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Here's a couple pictures from the Rockpile during warm ups before the Bills-Oilers jousted on what I believe was openning day. This is from a slide my late father-in-law took from the west end zone seats. Actually, they are both teh same slide. The full picture, then a close up of teh field. If you show actual size, you can see Kemp, Lamonica and Gogolak just to teh left of the right-hand upright, Elbert Dubenion is to the right of the upright, and possibly Cookie Gilchrist (running towards the camera) to the right of him. My father-in-law, who passed last year at 89, was an original Rockpile season ticket holder, who in his lifetime got to see what many still dream of, the Bills carried off the field as champions.
Second pic. Higher resolution pic of the players.
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From an ESPN insider article....
"They do this with a personnel blueprint nearly every franchise has tried to duplicate: by getting as many as 10 pairs of eyes on every draft prospect, they are able to pick exceptionally well, with few big mistakes, and restock their roster each fall with young, talented and cost-efficient players who perfectly fit their schemes."
Obviously we have a scout department, not one person stands up and says, hey this maybin kid has a 30" waist or can we afford a reggie bush type player (spiller)on this roster,etc. Or, we do have guys objecting and RW and TM just over ride everyone?
How much is scouting and how nuch is (lack of) front office strategy. The Bills have been notoriously lean when it comes to stocking the OL, DL and LB corp, despite past history supporting their value (Billy Shaw, Joe D, and Bruce Smith in the HOF). The quality of play in the trenches, will improve the quality of play behind them. The non-trench players can't make the linemen look better (cover up their faults, at best). Unfortunately, the Bills have wasted picks on RB when the trenches needed immediate help. Also, we whiffed twice in lineman with Mike Williams and Maybin (to name 2). There draft day strategy seems more impulse than a development plan. I would love to see how Modrak and all assessed Maybin and his contemporaries. How could Maybin be considered the best available pass rusher boggles even the amateur mind.
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To be accurate, prior coach Jim Hofher recruited all but Roosevelt. Here's a little trivia for you: There are 6 UB players signed to NFL teams right now...
DE Trevor Scott - Oakland
C Jamey Richard - Indianapolis
S Mike Newton - Indianapolis
WR Naaman Roosevelt - Buffalo
RB James Starks - Green Bay
QB Drew Willy - NY Jets (futures roster)
CB Davonte Shannon has some NFL draft prospects as well. A golden age for UB football.
PTR
Extra trivia. Two UB alimni played in the latter years of the AFL. Gerry Philben - NY Jets ; John Stofa (QB) - Miami Dolphins
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Yup.
Starks - undrafted
Fred Jackson - undrafted
NFL rushing champ A. Foster - undrated
Runner up: J. Charles - 3d round
2d runner up: M. Turner - 5th round
Sure there are a number of first round RBs starting around the leauge, but the RB is the easiest piece to find to have a good running game. OL and a QB that has to be respected are far greater priorities.
Well said! It should be incredibly obvious to Bills fans (especially older ones) who saw OJ languish in mediocrity until a great OL and a decent QB in Fergy propel him to greatness (I won't bring up what brought him down). The RB does need to know how to find and hit the hole, plus have the moves and power for extra yards. However, if the OL is bad, everyone behind them looks that much worse as well.
My theory - the team that controls the trenches, controls the game.
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What's dumb is picking a running back at #9 when we already had Fred and Marshawn. Ok, perhaps that's old news. What isn't old news is that either Fred or CJ will be under-utilized as long as their on the same roster. Why not make up for yet another strategoc draft blunder and get an impact player for CJ and let Fred do his thing!! We don't need a #9 pick backing up Fred--c'mon now!!!
Dr. E - best to quit right now. I posted the idea of trading CJ for a critical need position and I got flamed so much the air conditioner in my house kicked on just reading the responses.
What most posters don't infer is that any trade offer would have to be a good one (a #2 seems like a loss) and if the offer isn't good, you don't trade. What others also forget is sometimes you have to give up someone very good to get someone great. The trade that landed Cornelius Bennett in '87 is a great example. Bill Polian was questioned internally about that move and it was masterful. Also, many forget that OJ wanted to be traded in '76. Lou Saban wanted the trade to keep team unity and had a deal in mind with the Rams (for Lawrence McCutcheon plus draft choices, I think). Instead, RW made OJ a sweet deal to stay, but gave nothing to the rest of the team. The players became disgruntled and the coach quit. By 1977, we had reached a 2009 type low.
Whether picking and/or keeping CJ is the right move won't be known for another two years.
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Joe Theismann
Agreed! The guy would never shut up! There was no point to having another analyst or play-by-play announcer because Jow wanted teh spotlight himself.
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John Rauch, the genius, decided to use OJ as a decoy a lot in his rookie year, and would set him out as kind of a wingback. Not split out wide like a WR but more like just off the tackle or tight end. Really smart.
OJ was a rather lousy receiver, although the Bills should have thrown him the ball more out of the backfield. 30 was the most he ever caught, and that was his rookie season. In his 2003 yard season 1973 he had six total catches the entire season, which is remarkable. The 1975 season was even better than 1973, where he ran for 1800+ yards, had 28 catches for a whopping 15.2 yard average, and scored 23 TDs.
I remember being at Rich for the last game of '75 where OJ broke teh TD record at the time. A meaningless game unfortunately. It was played during a lake effect storm and in addition to watching the game, you had to watch for snowballs. Chuck Foremen of the Vikes got hit in the eye with one and it shortened his career.
I agree about OJ and pass receiving. Between he and Thermal, I've felt that OJ was the better pure runner, while Thermal was the better all-around back. TT made many spectacular catches downfield and could run pass routes as good many WR's.
Glad to see the Chicken Littles are out in full force
in The Stadium Wall Archives
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I only concluded it is preseason - never said we will make the playoffs.