tomato can
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Posts posted by tomato can
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The bottom line is Chrome got eaten up by the field and the length at Belmont. The difficulty of the Triple Crown signifies greatness and Chrome is simply not that...bottom line. This guy needs to shut up.
I disagree. He did not get eaten up by the field or the distance at all. Ride On Curlin however did get eaten up by the field and the distance. Chrome was right there with the leaders throughout beaten only 2 1/4. He definitely can not wear the tag of "greatness". but he is a pretty special horse. Competing the way he did in these 3 races in span of 5 weeks is remarkable.
The owner does not need to shut up. The guy is obviously passionate about the sport and his horse. Coburn is new to the sport and this was emotional time for him. Tonalists owner took the high road when asked about it. He did so because he has probably been there already and has had his share of disappointments with his horses. I bet Coburn is not the first owner to express his displeasure with the process, he is just the first owner to have a TV camera in his face and say it.
If there is any change that makes sense is leave everything as is and just extend the time period between the Derby, Preakness and Belmont.
Definitely agree here. These are 3 grueling races in a span of 5 weeks. Most t-breds race about 10 to 15 starts a year. More would probably enter and others would be less likely to duck them if they had more time to recover.
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Yeah... But years ago, how would the horse racing circle of treated Tonalist's owner for keeping him out of the previous two? I am glad Coburn expressed it. The group doesn't say boo for what Tonalist's owner did... Maybe they should? This keeps up where there is no honor amongst the guys racing, there will be silly changes. Racing could have benefited from a Triple Crown winner. The game is so different in many ways than in the past... Horses are so differnent too. There probably won't be another Triple crown winner ever if the races are continued to be gamed...
I dont believe Tonalist was eligible to race in the Kentucky Derby? It used to be you had to have a certain amount of money earned to qualify. If I am not mistaken that has been changed and you earn points from the prep races prior to the derby and need to have enough points to qualify. I personally enjoy it more when the horses who are good enough to race in these big 3 races take on the task. I think that the purses have increased a lot and the urgency to race in these 3 are becoming less. I guess if I had a horse that was good enough to race in the triple crown races I would want to get in and not manage him like a hot house flower....you may never have another chance to race in them....I have no issue with Coburn expressing his displeasure. But you have to take on all comers regardless. I believe the owner or trainer of Tonalists said the win was bitter sweet. I'm not sure what he feels was bitter sweet? Other than stopping he horse that was trying for the feat?
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It's supposed to be exceptionally difficult to win a Triple Crown, it's the ultimate accomplishment. If you can't beat all comers regardless of what races they have run or not run, you're not a legendary horse and not deserving of a TC. And that's why Coburn is dead wrong.
You are absolutely right. You have to beat all comers regardless of what races they have been in. I dont take any issues with Coburn expressing his displeasure with the process but he did know the process before he got into this and thats the way it is. He is certainly free to express his opinion but the bottom line is his horse did not get it done.
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I understand how tough the Triple Crown stretch is on the animals...that's why only 12 horses have won it in 140 years; it takes an exceptional horse.
California Chrome wasn't exceptional.
The closest I've seen in my lifetime have been Sunday Silence and Charismatic--the latter, I believe, would've won had he not rolled his ankle on the stretch of the Belmont.
There's always next year--Jess's Dream perhaps?
No argument there that it takes an exceptional horse to accomplish the feat. I thought he had a nice trip today and plenty of racing room turning for home....those 3 races are absolutely grueling. I also understand the owners disgust with the process where horses skip races and then come into either the Preakness or Belmont very fresh and unused. Right now thats the process.
The closest to accomplishing the feat was Silver Charm in my opinion.
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I believe Medal Count was in all 3 races as well.
Medal Count skipped the Preakness to freshen up for the Belmont.
I wont say the owner was whining. I think he has a point. I always viewed the triple crown races as a big test of endurance. In 1997 Silver Charm and Free House raced all 3 as did a few others. Captin Bogit one of the main contender raced in the derby and preakness and surely would have saddled up for the Belmont if not for I believe an injury. Not sure why Touch Gold did not enter the derby? He did mix it up in the Santa Anita Derby with Silver Charm and Free House and enetered the Preakness and Belmont.
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Looks like the topic of conversation will be California Chrome's owner's comments after the race. Wow!
Yes it will. Ride on Curlin raced all 3 races (derby, preakness, and belmont) and he was flat also.
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Silver Charm was mentioned earlier, albeit not as in great detail as you put it.
I remember that Triple Crown very well. Those three races were all thrillers. I remember how in that Preakness race that Touch Gold stumbled out of the gate and still managed to come in 4th. Captain Bogit was an exciting horse as well, too bad he could not run in the Belmont.
My apologies Mark, Silver Charm was mentioned and I missed it. Those races were definitely thrillers. That Santa Anita Derby battle was equally as good. Captain Bogit was very exciting and it was disappointing that he was not able to go in the Belmont. With the Belmont being even longer and him being an great closer he may very well have been able to run them down. He just ran out of real estate in the Derby and Preakness. Touch Gold was awesome in the Preakness to stumble out of the gate and still get back into the race was impressive.
Not to knock California Chrome but over the last several years it seems like the top derby contenders that do not win the derby all seem to be passing either the Preakness or the Belmont. I guess the money is so good in other big races there is no real urgency to race in the Preakness or Belmont anymore.
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No love for Real Quiet from the both of you?
No love for Silver Charm? This horse was amazing and had some really good competition. Leading up to the Derby he chased a highly regarded filly Sharp Cat around the track through some blistering fractions in the Santa Anita Derby and lost to Free House by a nose. Some wondered would Silver Charm have anything left for the Derby. He was awesome in the Derby holding off a late charging Captin Bogit and Free House to capture the roses by a neck. The Preakness was even better and all the top horses were in it, Silver Charm, Free House, Captin Bogit, and Touch Gold and boy did they not disappoint, it was an unbelievable finish between Silver Charm, Free House, and Captin Bogit with Silver Charm prevailing by a nose. Silver Charm, Free House and Touch Gold gave us another epic battle down the stretch in the Belmont, with Silver Charm losing by a half length to Touch Gold. Those 4 races by Silver Charm were simply amazing. The compeition was so good. A great story behind Silver Charm. For all the money Silver Charm would earn in his career, the gray or roan son of Silver Buck attracted a meager price of $16,500 when he was sold as a yearling in 1995. He was later re-sold for $30,000 and then in the spring of his 2-year-old season was purchased privately for $85,000 by Baffert on behalf of the Lewises. He might have lost the triple crown by in my eyes he was one of the all time greats. If you have a chance youtube those 4 races. They were just remarkable.
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An awful lot of baby boomers got theirs working in industry and all the sudden demnd a pristine environment? Interesting article. The article was posted on another forum and the baby boomer activists were fighting with the young activists! LOL!
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Since he hates capitalism so much he should let her have it all....
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/documents/Michael-Moore-divorce-476321
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He leads the charge against Sterling on behalf of the players and calls for him to be banned.....Should he also be banned from his line of work???
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Yes, because Liberals are forcing them to be so
Oh, I though you would be an expert on this too, lol. Ya, thats why they are pushing for taxes on home solar panels and trying to stop the solar subsidies.
Since solar only works a portion of the day, the electrical grid is required. What you fail to consider is the fixed cost associated with the grid infrastructure. If you install a 5kw system and offset the kwh energy your house consumes you are being subsidized. If your connected to the grid with a net zero bill, then the other customers (without solar) are carrying the fixed cost of the grid. Which makes you greenies a bunch of freeloaders.
If every house installed solar and offset their energy the grid couldn’t survive without any income. The solar systems will not work without the grid. Solar power will quickly disappear at the exact moment the subsidies do!
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Again, nations that have done exactly as you suggested, and fully implemented "green energy", have seen their energy costs skyrocket. High energy costs means a worsening manufacturing market, as you're seeing now, with those countries manufacturers pulling up stakes and moving their production for the US. It has not created cheaper energy, or more jobs.
So you have to choose:
Do you want the US to be competitive in global manufacturing markets, or do you want energy policy centered around "green energy"? You can't have both.
Problem is most of these "environmental radicals" convince an awful lot of people that this type of energy is cheap.....and the selling points are that this type of energy is so friendly to the environment and that others forms of energy (coal, natural has, oil, ect) pollute their drinking water, pollute the air they breathe, and has saddled them with all the health problems they have.
Oh and they still believe that we are going to get 10 million green jobs.....
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Transitioning to solar power and other forms of renewable energy will make is even more competitive. Think about how our trade deficit would fall. We should always be looking towards the future. Will it take an investment? Sure, nothing good is free. But tell me which of the following industries didn't get major help from the government: railroads, aircraft
, computers and/telecommunications.
Please view the link below. A solar plant was built on the southeast side of Chicago in the West Pullman neighborhood. No break in energy rates for the residents. The local Alderman was not at all excited about the project because it created very few jobs, one full time to be exact and six other jobs for security, landscaping, and general maintenance. Oh and the utility company was banking a $50 million dollar stimulus loan guarantee from the department of energy.
http://news.medill.northwestern.edu/chicago/news.aspx?id=151773
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I posted about this on a local message board for my neighborhood and the local enviro's(and we got a lot of them) always argue this......
"The price for energy from coal is deceptive as it does not include the cost of the health care costs from asthma, and other diseases caused by air pollution, it also does not factor in the cost for environmental imparement and clean up of the land, rivers and streams.
Our environment is worth passing on to ur children. http://www.ohvec.org/galleries/mountaintop_removal/007/
Reduction of Interest.
LMAO!!!
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Big elecricity rate increase coming for us im Chicago. When you heavily subsidize wind power (and rate fix the electricity cost from it, without regard to whether anyone actually needs the power at the time) and force/regulate base load electricity (coal and soon to be nuclear) out of business and off the grid, I don't know how you could possibly expect any other outcome but this. The environmentalists and politicians making "green" decisions funded by them caused this and it will continue to get worse. Anyone elses rate soaring?
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If you've got above a certain percentage of your lot paved, you have to pay a tax for having too much water runoff when it rains, since the runoff pollutes the Chesapeake Bay.
Of course, the extra pavement in our yard is because the county paved the easement for the storm drain - yes, we have a storm drain, so we don't have excess runoff, but we get taxed for it anyway...because of the county's easement.
It's the way of the People's Democratic Republic of Maryland: in lieu of sound policy, just levy a tax. Have to pay a licensing fee to change a light bulb too, theoretically.
That is just ricidulous. How does this rain tax prevent pollutants from running into the Chesapeake Bay??? Maybe they should just rip up all sidewalks, driveways, and paved streets and parking lots.....
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They should tax these "greenies". Let them get off the grid if they do not like it. Why do you get taxed for the rain?
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http://news.yahoo.co...-111300623.html
This is not a push back against renewable energy. How exactly are people with solar panels ultimately doing utility companies a service? The utilities have to pay them. They receive less revenue from solar users and are forced to allow solar users to use the transmission lines that the utility companies bought and are responsible for repairing when outages occur. Its not like Solar Joe is required to go out and fix neighborhood lines or to pay the linesman when an outage occurs....
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Interesting comments from Mark Levin......
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From what I have been reading the Bundy family had grazing rights dating back many years. His family built the water sources (wells) on the land which granted them grazing and water rights.
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The American Cattle Rancher is thrown off public land so it can be sold at a very generous price to the chinese who are going to build a 5 billion dollar solar plant that we will be forced to purchase our energy from?....environmentalists will champion this even if it means trampling on our liberties and freeddoms because they will stop at nothing to force us to the inefficent & expensive renewable source of energy.
http://www.reviewjou...ce-headquarters
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Nice explanation. If it really played out like you said. I would say: "No" to your question.
YET... Was Hooker screaming from the mountain tops not to build on the land. Heck no. Were they obligated to "scream from the moutain tops?" Heck no, if they weren't being vindictive. I suppose, being vindictive played into their side of the argument.
Do the right thing.
Anyway... Somebody has to be commended for the subtle brilliance in designing this:
http://www.amazon.co...7/dp/B004UU0AF6
Again, a subtle gr8 addition to anyone's train collection! :-O
Some other interesting notes from a report I read.....
It was a dump site by the local government, and then appropriated by the federal government as a dump site for the army. In other words, by the time Hooker Chemical Company began using it as a dump site in 1942, Love Canal had a long history of being used as a waste dump. Hooker Chem also took what it thought were reasonable measures to bury and seal its waste. Hooker Chem even took precautions before dumping in it. They drained the canal and lined it with thick clay and then after filling the cavity with stacked barrels they covered it up. They took care to bury the most potentially dangerous chemicals at twenty-two feet and bought the 70-foot-wide banks on either side of the canal. Hooker Chem could hardly be cited as a heedless corporate villain playing fast and loose with the public welfare, it was not even a residential area at that time.
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Cost benefit analysis is the correct answer. Until you quantify the harm it's impossible to have a meaningful discussion on the matter.
Thanks Rob. That is the answer I was some what looking for. Thanks everyone else for chiming in. I never heard of the Hooker Chemical story(well before my time
). I looked it up and read a few different articles and reports about it. Seems like the blame could be passed around. One fact that stuck with me was 4 years after the sale a lawyer for Hooker Chem showed up at a board of education meeting and continued to impore them to abandon the plans for development. Seems to me that Hooker Chem continued to go the extra mile and raise the red flag even though they had no interests left in the land....
Secretariat
in Off the Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by tomato can
Examining the top 2 finishers. It appears the original goal for Commissioner was to get into the Kentucky Derby, Back in April Commissioner was well beaten in the Arkansas Derby and it appears he did not qualify to make it into the Kentucky Derby. His blood lines suggest that he would handle the distance well. In early May he finsihed a very good second in the Peter Pan Stake at Belmont and appeared to like the track. I am guessing they decided to skip the Preakness and have him fine tuned and ready for the Belmont. He ran a very good race.
Tonalists did not race in any of the derby prep races so he definitely did not qualify to get it. He has been very lightly raced. Winning 2 of 3 starts this year. His last win was in the Peter Pan Stake right here at Belmont back in early May. He also appeared to take to the track very well. My guess again was they skipped the Preakness so their horse would also be fine tuned and ready for the Belmont. He won the race.
With the triple crown being such an a difficult feat to accomplish the odds suggested Chrome would lose. I guess a good handicapper that did not get caught up in the hype of a triple crown winner could have cashed in on this race.
This however is the process enroute to a triple crown. You have to take on all comers regardless. You are right in saying do not hold your breath, the odds are very slim we will see this happen.