tonyd19
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Posts posted by tonyd19
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Terry is cheap........too soon?
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Barry Horowitz.
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I am preaching to myself here, but we all really need to remember today...The Buffalo Bills for as much as we love them, will never love us back. The can't . Football can't love you back. Do not put the Bills ahead of your family time etc. Basic stuff we can all forget at times I know.
The most frustrating thing for me is the complete inconsistency. The last ten years we have a great offense 2003 and a terrible defense. Then a terrible offense (with basically the same players) and a great defense in 2004. Then....both sides are terrible for about a decade, but some parts make strides. For example, the defense is average, but the line is really strong, or the offense is bad, but the run game is really good. Like last year, we had on of the top run offenses in the league, and this year (with the same players) can't and many times don't try to run the ball consistently. I do not understand it. It seems like Murphy's Law every year.
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Thats insane. How can you say that? How can you think that Ej could look any worse than Orton today? In my eyes, everything was there, the offense played well, the game plan has been there for the last two weeks. Coaching isnt a problem, theres one glaring weakness on this team and we all saw what it was. I have no idea of Ortons stats today and i dont care. He looked awful. All i know is, is EJ stronger and faster. No offensive TD's says it all. EJ could have just as easily had no TD's today either. But i dont think he would have, i think EJ would have been able to punch it in once. Just on the energy the rest of the team was carrying alone.
And i dont wanna hear about the WR Mutiny either. Whos this mutiny consist of anyways? Woods? A second yr player that hasnt proven anything? And a rookie? Neither one of those guys has any place forming a mutiny. Woods is a professional football player, hell catch balls thrown by who the coach say throws them, not the other way around. Or maybe Hogan was gonna mutiny? Or Chandler? Doubtful
EJ is friggin terrible and will never start for this team or any other unless he improves dramatically. If he was better than Orton, he would be playing. He is not playing because he is awful. I really wish EJ was the next Tom Brady...I really do. And I hope he proves me wrong. But as of now EJ is friggin terrible and will never see the field again short of injury.
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There is no way Buffalo will be allowed to cover the spread.
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Tell that to the WR's, they're the ones who got EJ demoted almost got killed.
Fixed
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Mr. No Neck versus the Incredible Douche
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ehh. One made a mistake and has acknowledged it from the very outset and even his wife has supported him throughout and the other is as certain that he has the answers to all the riddles of the universe as he is that the sun will rise tomorrow. I can tell you which offends me more.
I'll just quote CS Lewis. "If you don't understand books written for adults, you should not be discussing them." Not sure how this became a religious discussion, but I find your comments very shallow and offensive. I also find it very hypocritical of someone who grew up in an area settled by Christian missionaries, who have done more for your way of life than you will ever fully contemplate, mock and demean the beliefs of 2 billion people to the level of a 6 year old child. You obviously do not understand the logical and fact based defense of Christianity, Nor do you, based on your idiotic statements, seem to have the intellectual capacity to have an intelligent conversation about it.
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Guess you missed when Mario Williams signed here. Or when Brandon Spikes signed here. Or when Corey Graham signed here. Or when Kyle Orton would rather play here than in Dallas. Or when Keith Rivers signed here. The Bills have signed just as many, if not more big name players the last few years as anyone.
Yes, and we paid more for everyone of them then most teams would have. You can call it the Buffalo premium if you like. They either do not sign or you must overpay for them to deal with the hassle.
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Actually, I do believe the explanation; I just don't agree with it.
In my mind, it's the same as the decision to keep Mario and Hughes on the bench for the first 7 snaps of NE's final TD drive. I sat in the stands, wondering aloud why the team's 2 best pass rushers aren't in the game. I figured the answer was that they were saving them for 3rd down; turns out (as Marrone said in his post-game press conference) that was indeed the reason. I hate that reasoning; it's stupid. That doesn't mean that I don't believe it.
I think it's quite obvious that what Marrone said about Mike Williams is genuinely his thought process; I just don't agree with it. Much the same as I understand that they dress Lee Smith as a blocking TE, when they could just as easily dress another WR or RB and use Urbik or Hairston as a blocking TE (since they're just as likely as Lee Smith to get open and catch a pass). I understand the thought process; I completely disagree with it.
I think we are basically on the same page as I agree with you, I just believe it is an excuse, not the actual reason. I think the special teams reason is a justification. I think MW was pissed about not being targeted more, made it known and was pissing off the coaching staff. So they decided to send him a little message. Your explanation regarding using another lineman in place of Gragg is perfect. Also, do you really need 3 kickers. Can Carpenter really not handle a few kick offs?
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Or it could just be that you don't agree with their logic. Their logic doesn't have to be the same as yours in order for them not to be lying...that's the point here.
They didn't dress Williams because they felt that Gragg was essential to the game plan as Chandler's backup, and that Hogan/Goodwin were more important on ST. I don't agree with those decisions; that doesn't mean that they're lies.
You are correct, that does not make it a lie.
However, it's not that I do not agree with it, it is in fact that it is not logical. At the end of the day, you do not bench players who are your starters for back ups. If this had been a playoff game, would this decision make any sense? Should we deactivate Orton or EJ because we are going to a heavy run set formations and just don't plan to throw much? Why deactivate your 2/3 receiver for your 4/5? They say special teams. So you deactivate a 40 to 50 play guy to have a 20 play guy on the field? You're going up against one of the best corners in the game without all your healthy weapons at receiver? If this is actually the reason, I would have to question if this man is fit to coach at all. Also, I do not think anyone (you included) actually believe that special teams was the reason. Mike Williams can't play special teams? I am sure he would have preferred that over being inactive.
No, there is certainly something else there and the message being sent from the front office confirms it. If anything the special teams issue was an excuse, if not an outright lie.
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i didn't compare the coaches. I compared the decisions. Unless anyone knows the whole story, I don't see how you can assume he made the wrong one because he has been a HC all of a year and a half. He has to make the tough decisions, easy to criticize when your job isn't on the line. I (and many who grew up in Bflo) know all about mike Williams. Forgive me if I don't jump to defend him. But again, I really don't know these exact circumstances so not jumping to conclusions either way.
i said that about Pears yesterday. Smith is useless!
Yolo:
I just want to make sure you understand this thread is not actually about Mike Williams, it is about how the organization handles big time players and the waves that can have on the future of the franchise. The player could be anyone. It is how this team responds to high profile high talent players. You just do not see other teams doing things like this. You would not see the Yankees deactivate a high profile player who is in their prime for a post season series when they were not injured because of some problem the coaching staff or whomever had with them. It is not how winners are built. This is the crux of my problem.
Now you can argue Mike Williams is not that big time of player. But to Buffalo he is a big time talent. When you look at it from the perspective of he is a big time talent who actually wanted to be here (was his dream to be here) then 6 weeks later wants out. Then you look at how the team bad mouthed players like Marshawn Lynch (deserved or not) how he was lazy, did not run hard, didn't put in full effort...and he goes to Seattle and does what he does. It makes the whole franchise look like absolute fools. And nobody wants to play for (or coach or work for) a team that 1) Always loses, 2) Will bad mouth or disrespect good players, 3) Will publicly attempt to humiliate them. They either won't come play here or you will have to massively overpay to get them here.
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You've done your part Yolo...I no longer have any idea what the poster is upset about.
Not that difficult. Lets look at the options.
1) Mike Williams does not fit the scheme this week, therefore we will not play him.
2) Mike Williams has an attitude problem, therefore we will not play him.
1) If he does not fit the scheme, you have to show the player is not talented enough than the other players to contribute to a victory. Since the front office themselves are not claiming this and since the players previous performance indicates otherwise, you can logically deduce this is not true. He is more talented than the other players in front of him, therefore there is another reason he is not active.
2) If he has an attitude problem, then there are better ways to handle this problem, than to deactivate him, making a public issue out of a discipline issue and making your entire team look bad. We can also deduce that this should not be a problem because the team has come out and said, they have no problem with his attitude.
We can logically deduce that the team 1) Does believe he more talented than other players who were active and 2) Does not have an attitude problem based on their own comments. Therefore we can conclude the front office is lying about the reason he was inactive. Hence, the chaos and lack of professionalism at the franchise level I originally was talking about that makes the team look bad.
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Huh? Ok....but you were criticizing them for making it public. Every team is required to make inactives public by the league.
What I said was by deactivating him they made it public. If they wanted to send a message to him regarding his professionalism, they should not have deactivated him. Thus allowing the entire organization to save face and look better. By deactivating a talented player and then to come out and say they have absolutely no issue with his professionalism calls into question his talent level. Also when they GM comes out and says "If he is #1 WR, as he claims to be." You can infer that the player claims to be a # 1 wideout but that is not how the franchise sees him. Once again it calls into question his talent level.
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I am not arguing anything. I said it was likely one OR the other. I don't see the first one that hard to believe. Or the second.
Gunner on coverage units
I understand and agree with you that it was one of these problems. What I am saying is that either way it is really bad for the team. Just a bad decision either way you slice it. Reflects badly on the team, on the front office and how this team makes decisions and responds to internal problems. Very unprofessional on all fronts.
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Williams didn't claim that. His agent did. Whaley said " if he gets me compensation worthy of a No. 1 wide receiver which he (agent) claimed he is, then we would entertain it.” As I said in the other MW thread - agents call all the time requesting trades. It only gets out in the media if the agent wants it to. Whaley did not make it public. The agent did, and then he had to answer it. I don't think he wants to trade him and therefore is pissed he needs to deal with it now.
There isn't any such thing as "publically" deactivating a player. Every inactive is made public for every team, every week, within an hour of the game. It's a rule.
That is self refuting. If it is public then it is public.
Also, who made the trade request is irrelevant. It is how the GM responded. Being "pissed" reflects badly on the entire franchise. By doing so he devalued the players talents, made himself look bad, and made the team look unprofessional. All bad.
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With AW inactive, they had to activate a S (Ladler)
Marrone just said in his presser he has zero issues with MW. Just a roster decision on needing 3 TEs and the WRs who also play ST. So I think it comes down to 2 things - Marrone is trying to light a fire under MW to boost his game/commitment or there ARE issues but they don't want to hurt his trade value by saying that.
If anyone here actually believes MW was not active because of a three TE set, I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Your argument is self refuting. Was he deactivated because of personnel or because the HC wanted to motivate him? If it is the former then you have to explain why a WR in his prime, who has 1,000 yard 10 TD production is not worthy of a roster spot in the biggest game of the year. If it is the latter, then you have a front office who is now not only questions the players motivaation, but also their talent level. Like I said, it is all bad.
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What did they do "publically," and what were the snarky comments? There are valid reasons for him to be inactive. I was surprised. But I do see why it occurred, even absent of off field issues.
He was never listed as the #2 WR, going back to the first depth chart in TC. The money is irrelevant, they are trying to win. Good coaches play the players who give them the best chance. His agent can think whatever he wants, that is his job. To what players is he the #2?
Whaley came out after the trade request and said, and I am paraphrasing that Williams claims to be a #1 WR and if he can find someone to compensate them he will trade him. This is a comment full of sarcasm that just sends a bad message to players. Don't get on the bad side of the GM or he will make public comments about your talent level. The public question is obvious. They publicly deactivated him and then had to explain publicly why they did so.
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I don't read anything into it knowing the game plan of utilising the TE matchup. It was such a big part of the game plan that they had to have Gragg, his backup, active in case Chandler got hurt. The WR depth is such that they also had to have Goodwin and Hogan active as they both play ST, and MW does not. Nor is he a starter. But I don't discount the fact, knowing MW's history (going back to his HS days) that there could be an issue with the player that - not surprisingly - the organization doesn't want out there.
If there is a problem with Williams ( which his history has shown) I agree that the HC should take action. But with A Williams being inactive, you could still activate Williams and just not play him often and keep the 3 TE sets. The problem once agian is not so much about Williams the player. It is about a HC whop deactivates a fairly well know highly paid player, A GM who comes out and makes a very backhanded statement about the player and how the organization does things.
But I have a question.
What if Mike WIlliams has been a model citizen behind the scenes, like the front office says he has? Then it is even worse. Now you have a reformed bad image player who the Bills have now made an issue not over his attitude, but his talent. If you are Mike Williams how do you not feel taken advantage of in that situation. A team that does this to you in your prime knowing people outside the organization will question your work ethic or attitude because of your history. As I said, there is no good that comes out of that decision. The only good that could have come from it would have been if the Bills won, and they came out the next day and praised Williams for his sacrifice for the team.
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Williams is the #3 behind Watkins and Woods. Just saying.
He was the #2 starting WR at the beginning of the year and is paid #2 (potentially # 1) money. He has a history of putting up big time stats and is in the prime of his career athletically. To agents and players he is the #2 receiver on this team.
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Outsider perspective here, but I thought I would throw my two cents in.
Sounds like something internally is going on, and I think that players understand that it is a business. Stuff like this happens all over the league, and I don't think MW is that big of a National player.
Winning and money cure all. Being a fan of another smaller market team, I think a lot of Free Agents would prefer to go to another organization for night life, weather, etc. But if Marrone wins this will not be an issue. Maybe he had it with some crap behind the scenes and he doesn't want to deal with it and he is setting an example?
I agree with setting examples with bad players (if in fact that is happening, which there is no evidence for) But you do not do it so publicly and you certainly do not send your GM out making snarky comments about the player the next day. Just really bad optics for the entire team.
Belichik benches Dobson for 2 games and cuts Thompkins, but he's a genius. Everyone always wants to blame the coach, unless it is the coach of another team then it must be the player.
I'm sorry how many playoff games have the Bills won in the last 15 years? Belicheat is the stabilizing force I was originally talking about. Yes, winning matters. If Marrone takes the team to 4 Super Bowls and wins a couple then he can do whatever he wants. Until then, your comparison is not valid.
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Kind of conflicting...
We don't know the whole story. We do know MW's history. Everyone wants to blame the coach, though.
I understand why you would think that. As I thought of that too while I was writing it. What I mean by it is we need a stabilizing force for this team. The move is a lot less about Williams the player as it is the message it sends to the rest of the league. Dumb moves like this are screaming for a calming presence. I should have clarified that is you remove Marrone, you absolutely must replace him with a highly respected long term answer that can stabilize the organization. Believe me, nothing would make me happier than Marrone having a Levy like career, but you just cannot do what he did yesterday.
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I do not mean Mike Williams the player is a big problem. I mean taking a highly compensated, highly talented, well known player and making him a healthy scratch for the biggest game of the year (to date) is a big problem for this franchise. If you ever wonder why big name free agents do not want to play here, it is basically the below reasons.
1) We have constant coach and scheme turnover. Essentially, the franchise is in perpetual chaos.
2) Nobody wants to come to an organization like this and have their value diminished by a coaching staff who does not use them properly, changes their position, or puts them in situations where they cannot maximize their value and or skill level.
3) Every few years we have a high profile player, who wants out of here for some reason or another. Players talk and do not want to deal with constant front office and personnel problems.
Now back to Mike Williams. We have a very skilled well known, national player. He grew up in Buffalo, he said his dream is to play in Buffalo. Now, 6 weeks into the season after being exposed to the organization he wants out of Buffalo. We have a head coach and front office who lay out a b.s excuse as to why our #2 wide out is inactive for a huge division game. And then lay out another b.s excuse regarding how they are not shopping him, but would look at offers for him?
Does the coaching staff and front office have any clue how this type on nonsense looks to potential free agents, potential coaches, and potential front office personnel around the league? How about to player agents and future draft choices? This crap has to end now. We cannot take a highly talented player like Williams who by all accounts has been a model citizen here, has worked hard, and who is very talented and treat him like that. Regardless of what you like or dislike about him, it sends a terrible message about the Bills as a whole. That move yesterday was absolutely unacceptable. If I was Terry Pegula, it would be the catalyst to remove the entire coaching staff at the end of the year. I would make sure I sent MANY messages through back channels that this type of crap is over. I would pay big money to bring in a well known, high profile head coach to solidify the organizations standing and give him a very long term contract.
I have been a fan of Marrone to this point, but the move yesterday to deactivate Williams may have set this team back 10 years. It was that bad.
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Tony D...
Excellent post. Really well thought out.
Thanks for the support. I appreciate it.
NFL Comish Goodell declines Interview on NBC W/ Bob Costis
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Bob Costas is a politically correct empty suit. The sooner he is off the air, the better every sports telecast will be.