BRH
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Posts posted by BRH
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In a vacuum, your points have some validity.
I think the reason your argument isn't stronger is that, by any measure, when John Kerry's service to this nation during Vietnam is stacked up against George W. Bush's, there is absolutely no contest at all.
So Kerry came home from Vietnam after four months of combat. Not only did George Bush not set foot outside this country, he got a transfer to another state's Guard so he could work on a political campaign, then missed his flight physical, then didn't show up for drills, and finally was released early so he could go to business school. And while Kerry has produced several witnesses who attest not only to his presence but his bravery in Vietnam, Bush has yet to produce one credible witness who can attest to his PRESENCE at drills in Alabama. Who can be fairly said to have done his duty? Certainly not Bush.
If Bush had done a full year's combat tour in Vietnam, don't you think his supporters would be on a teeny bit stronger ground criticizing Kerry's four months there?
With regard to Kerry's anti-war activities, I think the majority of this country today thinks our involvement in Vietnam was a mistake and needlessly wasted the lives of over 57,000 Americans. It's unfortunate and tragic that the civilian portion of the anti-war movement included the returning soldiers in its wrath. Most of the returning veterans who were against the war -- including John Kerry -- did not do this. The Winter Soldier Investigation and Kerry's subsequent testimony to the Senate FRC were intended to expose the wrongheaded policies that our government was forcing the troops to effectuate in Vietnam, not as an indictment of the troops themselves.
I disagree that he "assaulted the honor and dignity of those he had abandoned." His target clearly was the government that put them in such an untenable situation. I.e.,
We are here to ask vehemently, where are the leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We are here to ask where are McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatric, and so many others. Where are they now that we, the men whom they sent off to war, have returned?I do understand the rage of the veterans who think Kerry was attacking them. Some of them -- many of them, maybe -- didn't participate in such "atrocities." Others probably did, but feel that Kerry violated some code by reporting it -- and maybe they just didn't want to be reminded of it. Whatever the reason, I understand their anger.
But that is no reason to do what they have done in 2004, which is to spread lies and other baseless smears across the factual record of John Kerry's service in combat.
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Oh here it is. From www.crushkerry.com. Imagine dat.
It contains such gems as
In fact, his hairdo in the 1970-72 period would not meet Navy standardsTell me honestly, do you really think that if all this were true, Colson and O'Neill wouldn't have tried to use it in some fashion when they were working to smear Kerry in 1971?
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I've come across that term, with nothing substantial, in connection with Kerry. What I've heard is that he had some obligations either before or after his active duty, and that those requirements were not met or any records are not available.
Has anyone else heard anything?
And before anybody starts flaming, this is just a question.
Haven't heard anything... but then, I don't wallow in the far-right blogs. Perhaps someone who does can point us to a source. Where'd you hear it, Cincy?
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OMG you arte too funny...
Do you even read your own posts...
O'Neill said Kerry was not in Cambodia in Christmas 1968 as Kerry had stated in his seared memory... Because he was patroling in the Mekong Delta 40-50 miles away....
Kerry's campaign has already backed away from this "seared memory" of Christmas 1968...
then LATER...."Kerry went, and I went, to a place called Bernique's Creek — that was our nickname for it — at Ha Tien. That was a canal system that ran close to the border, but that wasn't at Christmas for Kerry. That was later for him"
He doesn't know Kerry was patrolling "40-50 miles away" because, as he said, he wasn't with Kerry at the time. He knows only what he, O'Neill, did two months later. (Those are the kinds of things you can learn by reading my posts.
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My business is thriving. Companies are spending more and more money on technology which in turn requires more programming from companies like mine which in turn means I'm close to hiring two people in the next couple of months.
What do you do for a living that the economy is killing you?
I'm a lawyer. I also care about more than just myself.
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Ok I recognize a reading comprehension disability when I see it so I'll go slowly...
Read the transcripts and you will see...
O'NEILL: Alan, yes, they are, Alan. It's two different places, Alan. One place is along the Mekong River, right in the heart of the delta. The second place is on the west coast of Cambodia at a place called Ha Tien, where the boundary is right along that border.
Where Kerry was in Christmas of 1968 was on this river, the Mekong River. We got about 40 or 50 miles from the border. That's as close as we ran.
Later, Kerry went, and I went, to a place called Bernique's Creek — that was our nickname for it — at Ha Tien. That was a canal system that ran close to the border, but that wasn't at Christmas for Kerry. That was later for him.
So it's two separate places, Alan, and the story is correct.
You should have gone more slowly. Let me help.
O'Neill today says he was never in Cambodia.
This directly contradicts what he said to Nixon.
On This Week last Sunday, O'Neill claimed that there is no watery border between Vietnam and Cambodia and so Kerry could not have crossed into Cambodia or been anywhere near it in a Swift Boat. He now says that there is such a border: "a place called Ha Tien, where the boundary is right along that border."
Right here you can see a map showing the location of Bernique's Creek in Ha Tien. Scroll down a little further and you see a picture with the following description:
Here a Swift Boat is seen departing Ha Tien in the late afternoon hours up the Giang Thanh for patrol. Cambodia will be on the left bank as she departs the lake area with South Vietnam on the southeast or right side.Hm it looks like there is plenty of water along the Cambodian border, doesn't it?
O'Neill is now backtracking by saying that when he said "there isn't any watery border" he was only talking about the Mekong River...which runs north through South Vietnam into...uhmmm...Cambodia. Of course, although he claims his patrol only came within 50 miles of Cambodia on the Mekong, he has no idea what Kerry did on the same river, because he said, and I quote, "I was there two months after him."
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I think this guy ripped that story right off of Fox News.
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He's on tape telling the President of the United States that he was in Cambodia.
And in the "next sentence" he admits that he was also "along the Cambodian border," when he's now telling everyone he never came within 50 miles of Cambodia.
He either lied to the President, or he's lying now. Or maybe he's just ... flip-flopped.
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I'm talking about Thurlow, whom Lambert saved.
When Thurlow does things like claim that the initials "K.J.W." on the after-action report mean that Kerry wrote the report (even though there are other after-action reports with those initials describing incidents at which Kerry wasn't even present), it's really difficult to consider him a credible witness. It's even more difficult to do so when Thurlow readily admits that the reason he is attacking Kerry's service record is because he's mad about what Kerry said after the war. I'd like a logic diagram on THAT Thurlow statement if anyone wants to provide it.
Given the facts, the records, and the testimony thus far, is there a fair jury out there that would believe Thurlow's account over Kerry's?
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Yet another liar has been exposed today, this time by a person who shares the SBVL's outrage against Kerry's anti-war activities (which, if we're all honest with ourselves and each other, is the only thing driving their smears on Kerry's war record. Well, that and the Bush campaign, of course):
Thurlow's account disputed by the man who saved him
Robert E. Lambert doesn’t plan to vote for John Kerry.But the Eagle Point man challenges claims by a group called Swift Boat Veterans for Truth that there was no enemy fire aimed at the five swift boats, including the one commanded by Kerry, on March 13, 1969 on the Bay Hap River in the southern tip of what was then South Vietnam.
Lambert, now 64, was a crew member on swift boat PCF-51 that day. The boat was commanded by Navy Lt. Larry Thurlow, a now-retired officer who questions why Kerry was awarded a Bronze star for bravery and a third Purple Heart for the March 13 incident.
"He and another officer now say we weren’t under fire at that time," Lambert said Wednesday afternoon. "Well, I sure was under the impression we were."
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Jimmy Craig offended you?
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And from that Fox News link comes this bit of hilarity from Sean Hannity:
HANNITY: Yes. What you said to Richard Nixon was, "I worked along the border; I was in Cambodia."And what you said in this interview, "Our patrol was about 50 miles from Cambodia."
Consistent statements.
This would be like me saying, "I grew up in Western New York, I lived in Buffalo. My home was about 50 miles from Buffalo."
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Yeah, Dole woke up one morning and decided all by himself that you know what, I want to go on the Sunday talk shows and tell everyone that John Kerry was never disabled in Vietnam. The campaign had nothing to do with it.
At any rate. the one thing all the Swift Boat veterans can agree on is that John Kerry was in Vietnam.
You can't even find someone to say that George Bush was in Alabama, for christ's sake.
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JOHNS: Behind the scenes, Kerry's aides were fighting the swift boat charges with unusual ferocity. They say they have evidence one of the top members of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth is an outright liar.
The co-author of the book "Unfit for Command," former swift boat commander John O'Neill said Kerry made up a story about being in Cambodia beyond the legal borders of the Vietnam War in 1968.
O'Neill said no one could cross the border by river and he claimed in an audio tape that his publicist played to CNN that he, himself, had never been to Cambodia either. But in 1971, O'Neill said precisely the opposite to then President Richard Nixon.
O'NEILL: I was in Cambodia, sir. I worked along the border on the water.
NIXON: In a swift boat?
O'NEILL: Yes, sir.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JOHNS: Now, O'Neill may have an explanation for this but he has not returned CNN's calls. What does seem clear is that a top member of the swift boat group is now being held to the same standard of literal accuracy they've tried to impose on John Kerry.
"I was in Cambodia."
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Then you probably also saw O'Neill try to explain why 30 years ago he told Richard Nixon he "was in Cambodia" and yet is now saying he wasn't.
More and more of their stories get discredited and exposed for lies every day. It's actually kind of amusing to watch.
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There's an election in Chechnya in less than a week. The Chechen rebels have already stated their intention to take their terrorism to different parts of Russia (this on the heels of bombing the subway and a rock concert in Moscow).
If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...
Swift Boat Founder contradicts on report
in Politics, Polls, and Pundits
Posted
They have backed away from the timing of his searing memory but not from the searing memory itself.