SteamRoller67 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 why not put him at DE and slide Maybin to LB (ala: Shawn Merriman), Maybin is quick enough, and he's got an LB number already.... You're talking about a 3-4 pass rush LB and and the Bills need a 4-3 cover 2 LB. That's a big difference in ability and the requirement of the defensive scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinWPB Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 it doesnt work like that in the NFL since salaries are not gauranteed In his case , yes it does. Ellis in the last year of his contract is owed $1.5 million by the Cowboys as part of a contractually agreed upon settlement. ... If he signs with another team for less than 1.5 mil. this year the cowboys have to make up the differance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpcolosi Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 In his case , yes it does.Ellis in the last year of his contract is owed $1.5 million by the Cowboys as part of a contractually agreed upon settlement. ... If he signs with another team for less than 1.5 mil. this year the cowboys have to make up the differance... i've never heard that. because he was cut prior to making the roster his contract shouldn't be guaranteed. in addition, he was a june 1st cut in order to save roster bonus $$. I am pretty sure the cowboys aren't on the hook for anything, and the 1.5mil you are referring to is instead the owed or pro-rated portion of his SB that will go towards the Cap number for the cowboys... maybe you are talking about something different that I don't know about, but if so, please post where you got that from. all this said, maybin is not moving to OLB on our team since his coverage skills are not why signed him, and Ellis playing over maybin for a year or two would be a good thing. I am a huge proponent of rookies not seeing the field at first because it gives them a lot of time to develop, but teams hate to pay guys to ride the pine. the only problem is, it works to sit them and have them learn . signing ellis would also make kelsay/denny better in that they play less... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinWPB Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 i've never heard that. because he was cut prior to making the roster his contract shouldn't be guaranteed. in addition, he was a june 1st cut in order to save roster bonus $$. I am pretty sure the cowboys aren't on the hook for anything, and the 1.5mil you are referring to is instead the owed or pro-rated portion of his SB that will go towards the Cap number for the cowboys... maybe you are talking about something different that I don't know about, but if so, please post where you got that from. all this said, maybin is not moving to OLB on our team since his coverage skills are not why signed him, and Ellis playing over maybin for a year or two would be a good thing. I am a huge proponent of rookies not seeing the field at first because it gives them a lot of time to develop, but teams hate to pay guys to ride the pine. the only problem is, it works to sit them and have them learn . signing ellis would also make kelsay/denny better in that they play less... Don't have a link handy but if you google ellis's release and 1.5 mil there are a zillion links available that report this. It was originally on the NFL.com story of his release but that original link now goes to a different site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLynchTrain Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 COme now all of you. If you guys remember, Ellis was pretty angry that he had to switch from DE, where he played all of his career, to LB when Parcells switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. He actually wanted a release for a while. Now I don't know if he's changed his tune since then, but he might want to go back to being a 4-3 DE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamRoller67 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 COme now all of you. If you guys remember, Ellis was pretty angry that he had to switch from DE, where he played all of his career, to LB when Parcells switched from a 4-3 to a 3-4. He actually wanted a release for a while. Now I don't know if he's changed his tune since then, but he might want to go back to being a 4-3 DE. He turns 35 in August. Long in the tooth for a pass rushing DE. I'm not sure when Parcells converted him to a 3-4 OLB (around 2004?), but his numbers as a standard 4-3 DE from 2003 and earlier are very pedestrian. Career Stats (from NFL.com) Season-- Team-- G-- GS--Tackles--Sack 2008 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 36 8.0 2007 Dallas Cowboys 13 10 31 12.5 2006 Dallas Cowboys 9 9 30 4.5 2005 Dallas Cowboys 16 13 35 8.0 2004 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 59 9.0 2003 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 48 8.0 2002 Dallas Cowboys 15 15 66 7.5 2001 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 60 6.0 2000 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 -- 3.0 1999 Dallas Cowboys 13 13 -- 7.5 1998 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 -- 3.0 TOTAL ................365-268-97-77.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JinWPB Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 He turns 35 in August. Long in the tooth for a pass rushing DE. I'm not sure when Parcells converted him to a 3-4 OLB (around 2004?), but his numbers as a standard 4-3 DE from 2003 and earlier are very pedestrian. Career Stats (from NFL.com) Season-- Team-- G-- GS--Tackles--Sack 2008 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 36 8.0 2007 Dallas Cowboys 13 10 31 12.5 2006 Dallas Cowboys 9 9 30 4.5 2005 Dallas Cowboys 16 13 35 8.0 2004 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 59 9.0 2003 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 48 8.0 2002 Dallas Cowboys 15 15 66 7.5 2001 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 60 6.0 2000 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 -- 3.0 1999 Dallas Cowboys 13 13 -- 7.5 1998 Dallas Cowboys 16 16 -- 3.0 TOTAL ................365-268-97-77.0 I guess if you call averaging 8 sacks a year pedestrian Did we have that many as a team last year? Didn't feel like it. Oh, sorry you said 2003 and earlier, that would be 6 sacks a year. How many did Ellison, and our high motor DE's have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpcolosi Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I guess if you call averaging 8 sacks a year pedestrian Did we have that many as a team last year? Didn't feel like it.Oh, sorry you said 2003 and earlier, that would be 6 sacks a year. How many did Ellison, and our high motor DE's have? he played a lot from a down lineman position which is where most of his sacks came from. 3-4's often use 4 down in pass rushing situations. thats what happened with him. He is a natural DE, not an OLB, and he doesn't want to be an OLB in a 3-4. this gives us a slight advantage of NE since they need a much bigger DE for a 3-4 if they used him at end. lets hope we can out bid these guys: http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/conte...r_de_ellis.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamRoller67 Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 I guess if you call averaging 8 sacks a year pedestrian Did we have that many as a team last year? Didn't feel like it.Oh, sorry you said 2003 and earlier, that would be 6 sacks a year. How many did Ellison, and our high motor DE's have? Schobel played in 5 games and had 1 sack before his injury. Denney and Kelsay combined for 6 sacks in 2008. Ellison doesn't rush the passer very often....It's a Tampa cover 2 scheme. Mitchell had 4 sacks in '08 and rushed the passer quite a bit more than the other LB's. http://www.buffalobills.com/team/team-stats.html I don't think adding a 35 year old DE turned OLB turned DE again player is going to help the Bills in 2009. I have nothing against the guy, but I don't think he's a fit here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted June 3, 2009 Share Posted June 3, 2009 He turns 35 in August. Long in the tooth for a pass rushing DE. I'm not sure when Parcells converted him to a 3-4 OLB (around 2004?), but his numbers as a standard 4-3 DE from 2003 and earlier are very pedestrian. Add Wade Philips into their changeover to a 3-4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Could He help? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRupp Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 We may never be high in his wish list, but I'd be shocked if the Bills did not make him an offer af at least what Jason Taylor was offered by us. I also agree, with that question about "what would do with Chris Kelsay?" I am not sure if we'd cut Kelsay of we signed Greg Ellis or if we'd go with Schobel, Ellis, Kelsay, Maybin and Denny and cut Chris Ellis, but that is exactly what I'd do. Play Ellis on more passing downs but also on 1st and 2nd down in a rotation allowing all our DE's to be very fresh and not have any pressure on Maybin to be above average for a rookie and get 8 sacks. I don't that will happen, but we need almost 15-20 more from our team over last year to make the playoffs and I do not think we'll get it with our current players. So, I feel the only way we get him is to pay him at least 1 million more than everybody else and/or get TO's help recruiting him if it would help. I honestly think the Bills HAVE TO TRY and WILL TRY to sign him b/c we already tried once to get a big time pass rushing vet. I am thinking a 1 year deal and I'd go as high as 3.5 million maybe 4 but I bet most of you all and the Bills think it is too much. Not me. Not for a one year deal in a year we need to make the playoffs. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 We may never be high in his wish list, but I'd be shocked if the Bills did not make him an offer af at least what Jason Taylor was offered by us. I also agree, with that question about "what would do with Chris Kelsay?" I am not sure if we'd cut Kelsay of we signed Greg Ellis or if we'd go with Schobel, Ellis, Kelsay, Maybin and Denny and cut Chris Ellis, but that is exactly what I'd do. Play Ellis on more passing downs but also on 1st and 2nd down in a rotation allowing all our DE's to be very fresh and not have any pressure on Maybin to be above average for a rookie and get 8 sacks. I don't that will happen, but we need almost 15-20 more from our team over last year to make the playoffs and I do not think we'll get it with our current players. So, I feel the only way we get him is to pay him at least 1 million more than everybody else and/or get TO's help recruiting him if it would help. I honestly think the Bills HAVE TO TRY and WILL TRY to sign him b/c we already tried once to get a big time pass rushing vet. I am thinking a 1 year deal and I'd go as high as 3.5 million maybe 4 but I bet most of you all and the Bills think it is too much. Not me. Not for a one year deal in a year we need to make the playoffs. Peace. Ellis was casted off because he was a liability in coverage much like Roy Williams was. In a division with westbrook, portis, and the giants crew, he was a liability. He should have never moved to LB though because he does not have the hips for coverage. A move back to end, could allow for another 2-3 solid years for him! Him on one side and Schobel on the other using maybin and ellis for relief would not be a bad setup at all. What to do with kelsay then I'm just say'in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 4, 2009 Share Posted June 4, 2009 Add Wade Philips into their changeover to a 3-4. Nope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDRupp Posted June 5, 2009 Share Posted June 5, 2009 Ellis was casted off because he was a liability in coverage much like Roy Williams was. In a division with westbrook, portis, and the giants crew, he was a liability. He should have never moved to LB though because he does not have the hips for coverage. A move back to end, could allow for another 2-3 solid years for him! Him on one side and Schobel on the other using maybin and ellis for relief would not be a bad setup at all. What to do with kelsay then I'm just say'in Either take the hit and cut him or start and play him 1st and 2nd down as a rotation player with Denney. Since I am not paying, I am not sure I care that much since I am not paying. I think they could use Schobel, Kelsay, Ellis, Maybin and Denny. You saw the formula to beat this team with Brady thanks to the G-men in the Super Bowl. Pressure Brady! Got to do it very well or Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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