Fake-Fat Sunny
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Posts posted by Fake-Fat Sunny
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As long as the wear gas tanks when they play so they can burdt into flames when the are tackled either one would be entertainment that I would watch.
I think this gas tank idea would also revolutionize figure skating and make it a must see event if they had them.
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Actually rather than this being the NFL trading off immediate cash for long term cash I think this actually creates a no lose situation for the NFL.
Either the broadcast nets will pay through the nose for the NFL in the next contract round or the NFL has a credible threat that they will move the majority or all of the games to cable.
Since local station will buy the rights to games, the NFL will not miss the chance to reach. profit from, or advertise to local fans unwilling or unable to pay for cable (actually basic cable-TV is classified the same as a utility like phone or electric in Buffalo public housing).
This strikes me as as an intelligent business move for the NFL.
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I hope and I do not see the Bills trading up to get any player.
If we were one player away from winning or even getting to the SB next year and that player was in the top 7 then by all means trade value away to get him and risk the huge cap hit vested in taking a player at the MW/Harrington spot in the draft.
However, even if one buys into the reports on D'Brick the Golden Boy stated calculus of win now seems to dictate first that there is a real limit to the value of a player whose primary value is that he will become out LT for years to come after he hits in stride in his second year (if we are lucky- when did Pace/Ogden. or Walter Jones make their 1st Pro Bowls).
Add to that the Bills being more than 1 player away so not only does time a player contribute count against us trading up for a long-term great payoff, but if anything our goals of winning sooner rather than later actually dictates us trading down for extra help instead of trading up or staying where we are.
Third, add into this that trading up actually will strip us of needed resources and agree with you that we will almost certainly not trade up and if we do it is a death sentence in 06 and maybe in 07 also.
I think this draft will be interesting because it will be more fluid than usual. I hope someone makes us some stupid blockbuster offer and we move down, but instead I look for some real draftday movement as we try to get that extra thrid rounder by trading down who make the Pro Bowl as Travis when we chose him but we still get the player we targeted with the pick as we did that year when got Clements anyway and he also got the Pro Bowl nonor once.
Even with good maeuvers such as this TH turned out to be an idiot and Nate has failed to live up to the lofty goals he set for himself.
We'll see.
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Buddy Ryan didnt get along with other coaches. His players loved him. Even when he was coach of the Cardinals and they were pretty terrible, his players mostly loved him. It goes back to that respect thing. He treated them like men, and stood behind them, and developed an us against the world comraderie with them. It goes a long way with these guys.
The thing is that it can certainly go a long with the guys in terms of providing a good experience in their lives but clearly in terms of Buddy Ryan's HC records it did not go very far or far enough in terms of producing Ws.
What folks don't seem to get in many posts is that how the fans and owners calculate who is the guy to hire or calculate whether someone was a good hire is quite different than how fans make this calculation.
The error which is bigger than this one however, is the false assumption that everyone calculates what is good in very different ways.
Unfortunately what is the right thing to do for one person and what is the right thing to do for another person can be very different things depending upon their own goals (even worse folks are making decisions based on what they "think" are their goals but really what drives their decision-making may be something unconcious or even stupid that is the REAL reason they did what they did).
Should all of us fans simply throw up are hands an stop predicting outcomes since at best we will know in retrospect what was done and really we will never know the whole truth? IMHO, no not all all, The game is entertaining to me in large part because sports are so unpredictable.
It's fun and weird for me to watch what happens. My paycheck and the well-being of my family is not dependent at all on what goes on with the Bills (though my wife was pissed when Flutie Flakes went away, Peca Pickles simply did nothing for her). Since my deep affection for the Bills is totally a self-selection on my part, it gives me the ability to root and feel great win they win, to feel like crap briefly when they lose, but to walk away and do important stuff when I want to.
Racking up Ws is a lot of what the game is about and it is the foundation which allows a team to become a TEAm. However, though us fans judge the season basically on whether we got enough Ws, when it comes right down to it the players, the coaches, and most importantly the owner's judgment on success and whether an employee is a good man (generally since except for low level front office jobs and a few relatives of owners the NFL is a man's world) is not dependent in the long run on Ws but on other factors.
This is a wholely reasonable way for a participant in the game to make judgments in my view.
I developed a number of good friends and a few life-long buds from our joint participation on teams which were flat out bad and losers. In the end, it is only a few owners, GM, players etc who are going to judge the value of a year based on how many Ws the team got. Winning a championship is a unique thing which builds relationships and shared memories which can last a life time. However, even the players know better than anyone else that if championships are your measure of success that each year 31 teams will be losers and only 1 will be a winner.
One must go into this trying to build a team capable of winning it all, but if one is ultimately satisfied only if you win the championship or even by producing a winning record, through no action or fault of your own (for instance the ref may blow the call on the coin-flip) the year is almost certainly going to be a failure for you.
Yes Virginia, to paraphrase Vince Lombardi, winning is not the only thing and actually in the final reel it isn;t much at all in judging whether you had a good season or not.
Ironically, despite it not being the real measure of success, it is the one thing which can unite all parties to pull together for the same goal. The real value of success will be found in whether and how that team united and became a TEAM regardless of how many Ws were achieved.
Though us fans are for the most all about the Ws and making the playoffs and the SB, most participants in the game seem to realize that if winning is the only thing that in the big picture it simply means that almost all the time (unless you are lucky enough to be Tom Brady) you are going to lose.
Folks who say that the decisions are all based on winning are simply wrong.
My favorite quote about the NFL came from a player (Hollywood Henderson I think or maybe Duane Thomas) he was asked whether the upcoming SB would be the most important thing in his life. His reply, if it so important then why do they play it every year.
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I think you are right. Many posters seem to lay out a description of NFL coaches and their desires (or owners and their desires) which I think are actually based n their desire as fans to first and foremost get Ws, when though this is the first thing most folks on the team are thinking about and working toward, there are simply other factors which make a differene in their actions and reactions about jobs.
My sense is that most coaches live in the real world, and that the real world of being an NFL coach is certainly about winning, the individuals real world is also about being part of a team, having a good experience (in addition to winning because if you get the W's even a bad experience can become a lot better), making big bucks, and probably most of all taking care of and being part of their family.
There simply are too few prime jobs in the NFL for most folks to be an idiot and generate backtalk about themselves on the NFL rumor wire that they are rude people or difficult to deal with.
While this is not fatal (jerks like Buddy Ryan and Mike Ditka got multiple shots at being an HC) these fellows had proven chops as important parts of SB winners. Nothing can get folks to overlook the fact you are a jerk like winning the big one.
However, in the end, most people just will not crap where they eat and treating someone with disdain or rudely (even if they deserve it is simply not a job seeking strategy which succeeds in most cases.
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The Bills routinely pay their players and free agents millions of dollars each year in bonuses. Paying Bates a few hundred thousand dollars a year more than they would like represents the cost of a top notch DC and the new realities in the NFL. I don't like Snyder, but paying for top coaching is a smart investment. In two years, Bates' salary requirements will seem more than reasonable. From all accounts, Bates is a difference maker. I am sorry, but Lynn or the guy from the Bears do not have his experience or track record with successful defenses. I also don't want to hear that this means that DJ will be running the defense. Our head coach needs coordinators that he can trust and delegate to, so he can focus on his own responsibilities, which are numerous.
You are right that Jauron needs co-ords he can trust and delegate to, but due to these reasons Bates may not be the best choice for the job.
Jauron's record of production has been one of having teams which are solid on D (running Jauron's system), but not so strong on O since Jauron was an NFL D player.
Bates was attractive in many ways in that he is a former interim HC who would not have to install HID D with the Bills to make his bones and put him in line for the next HC openings. He has a rep as a good teacher and has seen lots of stuff in his career.
However, I think Jauron was probably most attracted to him because Bates showed the ability to learn the Jauron way, add some good suggestions to it to tweak it, but in the end, Jauron was not going to have to fight or dicker with Bates over what base D scheme they were going to employ and how they were going to work it.
It does not surprise me that the Bills were willing to fork over the usual amount of exhorbitant $ that a DC gets to teach playing this boys game, but they were not willing to expand the envelope in terms of payment and Bates had other options (he stuill is under contract to and will get a great nickel from GB) besides the Bills even with the last DC job gone.
Again, I think it is pretty impossible for any of us outsiders to know exactly how the coaching staff background and skillsets match up with the players, but in the end it would not surprise me at all if Jauron makes judgments about the individuals applying for the few remaining openings with a retinue of position coaches he mostly inherited as to how these individuals help fill out and complete the coaching staff team he is putting together.
A brief look at the resumes and pictures of the current Bills coaching staff and openings is that it would not surprise me if his DC and remaining hires are:
1. Have reps as smart guys who are good teachers who DO NOT have the experience level to be able to run any other D but Jauron's or have enough experience they have no need to enforce their own D over Jauron's to make their rep.
2. Really provide background and demographics to the staff that fill out this team. As many of the folks on staff now are older, of caucasian descent, and have whatever background they have in terms of regional chops, the best way for Jauron to build a winning team is to get fellows who can relate well to youth, are of A-A descent and fill out wherever he feels their may be regional gaps.
The baseline will be to get bright guys who are good teachers, but making this a good team will likely make the marginal difference that determines whether the Bills go that extra mile in laying out bucks to get a particular individual.
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Right on target I think. Jauron has a rep from all I have heard which is much like GW ( functionally that is and ignoring the accumualation of list which blew TD away) when came to Buffalo- great on defense but needing some help on offebse.
Its a precious co-ordinator job so I actually don't think that a lot of folks will reject it if offered even if Buffalo does not strike them as the perfect location or set-up (some will if their kids are committed to a particular school where they are, but most coaches and their wives have already chosen the coaching career track and thus are committed that at some or a couple of points in time they are gonna move to some burg for a few years that is not perfect).
Overall, while I do not think folks will reject Buffalo if it is one of the few co-ordinator jobs open, if men have a choice (go to Buffalo or stay in sunny dot.com SF for example we may lose out if the candidates have a choice).
My sense is that Jauron and the Bills are still operating in an employers market where there are only 32 DC jobs in the world for the several dozen guys qualified. I think this means that rather than the Bills being forced to take a particular candidate because the desperately need someone with a particular skillset and level of talent, as far as a DC goes Jauron is looking for a particular type and likely will have several options to choose from to find a guy whom Marv, Ralph and Modrak are enthused about and he is in.
As far as a DC, it appears Jauron is looking for a guy who will run his D and learn and master his way of running a D so he can teach it well to the players and do game calls well on gameday.
I don't think Jauron needs and likely does not want someone with aspirations for making his name in Buffalo running his D.
Bates was a good choice as this former interim HC has a rep as a smart D guy and a good teacher who has no overwhelming need to prove himself worthy as a potential HC candidate because he got good reviews for his brief term trying to hold together the Fins ship of state after Wanny got canned. He was no where near as postentially good as Saban whom MI eventually got, but he is a candidate for HC jobs the next time around or for plum DC jobs. Further, he is under little logistical pressure to take a particular job as he is still under contract to GB.
As a choice instead of Bates, it would not surprise me at all if Jauron chose a guy whom he thinks is bright who can learn and teach his way on D. Further, he is probably making a calculation as to what his coaching staff (much of which he inherited is missing and looking to fill that out with the hire.
My guess is that in the real world looking at the Bills coaching staff and his team that there are several areas Jauron may be looking to supplement the skillsets and background of his position coaches. The guys he has on his staff now appear to be older men so he may want a younger guy who can relate to the boys he must turn into men. There are only a couple of position coaches of A-A descent in this group and though many folks focus on this issue only through the prism of ideology, for those who live in the real world also he probably wants to get the proper role model of A-A descent as a majority of the players will likely be of A-A descent. It would not surprise me if he will not be a slave to but would certainly benefits from the staff having some regional diversity. We all share the same TV so that there is some regional exposure for all (though TV is a fake world which presents many things as stereotypes) but if he perceives that there is a disconnect between the regions the team comes from and the regions the position coaches he has come from he may be inclined to pick a coach to fill out his squad that makes it the best team for managing the TEAM rather than simply picking and choosing individuals based on their football skills.
We'll see.
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I think the answer to you question is that any team has more than one goal (just win baby for example, sell tickers and make money is a potentially related but is a really different thing than winning, the guy in charge dealing with his own personal demons).
Any answer which is based on pursuit of just one goal or is based on some selection of one drive for descision making is almost certainly going to be wrong and if it is right on the outcome it probably is coincidence.
A real problem occurs when quite often the pursuit of these goals results in contradictory choices being the best way to accomplish them.
A business ignores the customers at its own risk, but sometimes in order for the team to be the winner it means that football guys in charge better ignore the bleatings of customers to make this move or that move because its the popular choice.
Teams often flow back and forth between emphasizing goals and one day will empasize satisfying the customer (ex. drafting a well regarded QB as the 1st round pick where if Pitt wins the SB, it will mark the 1st time a 1st round QB pick delivered an SB win to the team which chose him since Dallas chose Aikman in 1989) other times the same team might be in control of guys who think they have a winning vision on their hands and they will simply ignore popular pressure to stay the course .
My sense is this Bills team is really likely to emphasize winning more than satiafying the fan base with particular moves because it is unclear how long Ralph will remain on this earth. I think this is reflecte by Marv's statement that the goal is to win now.
Though I think that you are correct that the Golden Boys in charge are inerently conservative types (the occaisional advanture like the $10K RWS "risked" to buy the Bills was chump change for him compared to the real money he was spending on his construction business that has made him a multi-millionaire) I think that the desire to win before RWS dies will actually cause the Bills to make some fairly dynamic moves.
I think that ultimately things fell apart between RWS and TD when it became clear that he really had used the 05 season as a training camp for JP and if the D carried this team to the playoffs that was great but really he was on a 2 year plan to even make the playoffs if it occured in 2006 and even if JP worked out it might take until 07.
Particularly when this years D did not come anywhere near its stated goal of being another 85 Bears or Ravens D (my sense is that this D actually performed badly because they lost a little of their edge when they sensed that TD had really decided to use this year to train JP rather than go for it. Ironically, i think TD and MM disagreed over this same point as MM wanted to maximize chances of winning now using Holcomb where YD was interested in justifying his decision to go with JP) there was no way thar RWS could stand for simply training for the future when there was no sign of JP positive development and we were losing bad so waiting was painful.
I think you actually are incorrect to peg TD as being purely a force of radical moves, his decision to cut Bledsoe and train JP was actually a conservative one to the extent it was a choice to invest for the longer term rather than win now.
I also think it is a mistake to present the modern NFL team as really representing one man's vision. TD made final decisions but ultimately it was a partnership as:
1. The modern NFL team is simply too big of a business for one guy to really run and determine everything.
2. TD had a passive/aggressive management style where he seemed to be willing to let someone else like GW have his way as long as he avoided responsibility for GW mistakes. For example, TD apparently gave in to GW on whom to get to replace Sheppard as OC and gave in to GW's choice Kevin Killdrive and stalled off on hiring his choice Clements til GW was gone (at least that is how TD stated it in the welcome MM press conference.
3. TD really went back and forth getting Bledsoe (a radical move unexoected by many which worked one year) however, he took the conservative approach of staying with him and extending him. He then took a radical move of cutting Bledsoe (though ultimately by commiting to a long-term payoff from JP this can also reasonably be categorized as a conservative choice.
At any rate I look for what can reasonably be described by some as some coming radical moves from the Golden Boys as they attempt to win now, they are gonna die soon anyway so $ don't matter as much if radical moves screw up . and success is going to be found more in Marv administering a bunch of forces and thus lettimg them do some wild things than it will this inexperienced GM having one way to do things which he follows all the time.
It well may not work but I think it will be a wild ride.
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Also if you check out the link it specifically says below the list that it is a listing of what it would cost today 1/21/06 in this case and not what the tag will be after 3/1/06 when the new cap applies and not only do the Bills and all teams have mor money to work with, but items like the Vikes 1 year extraordinary cap payout to Winfield in 2005 come off the franchise tag #.
Based specifically on the link you posted it is certain that the franchise # will change and several outlets such as Mort and the update given above state the new # (which no one knows for sure until the NFL releases it because no besides the NFL and the folks who signed the contract no what it says specificaly in terms of deadlines for allocations of payments.
Even if the #s on the Commish site are taken as a prediction of the 06 cap (which it specifically says it is not) this is merely one site which contradicts multiple other sources.
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Because Wyche is a great football mind with a lot of experience, a good guy by all accounts and the kind of smart, reliable, positive influence that's not easy to find and that you want helping to guide your organization.
The Bills organization just took yet another large step backwards in an offseason in which only a couple steps forward could have made them a very good team.
It also may be a big loss if he really is seen by JP as central to his development as a QB or has built a relationship with him/
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Apparently the coaching contract rules are that a team owes the amount of the contract signed minus whatever amount he is paid by an NFL team under a new contract.
Thus, if Baters is holding out for more $ it is for an additional amount that was offered him above the salary the Pack are paying him. If the Bills (or any team paid him less then the Pack would merely have to cought up the extra amount giving him a level of compensation equal to his agreement with the Pack for the two years remaining on his deal.
There apparently is some jawboning and not forgetting in real life that stops coaches from merely hopping to colleges while under contract to the pros and in essence double dipping. There also are some long memories about NFL teams showing bad form and having the Packers pay for their DC by giving Bates a low ball contract to do the same job.
However, the big factors to take anything which anyone says with a boulder rather than a mere grain of salt is that in addition to none of us mere mortals fully understanding the contract rules coaches operate under, no one knows for sure what jobs were offered or for how much.
The moral statements as to whether Bates (or the Bills) are right or wrong in what the offered or what he has rejected seem to be fact-free opinions for the most part.
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AS I said earlier, I'm surprised it took this long.
Wyche came here because MM made him an offer which saved him from the wilderness of illness forced retirement.
The sickness he had not only forced him to drop the multi-hour high pressure job of being an HC, but cost him his voice and ability to yell (seemingly a job requirement for a coach) or even speak loudly (certainly an essential part of teaching QBs as we emphasize the importance of lessons with volume and cadence is all important for a QB).
It was great that MM got to repay a favor to Wyche who rescued MM from player retirement and I think a career selling insurance by giving an asst. coach for quality control role with TB.
I was surprised when Wyche did not leave when MM resigned but I guessed he seemed to be staying around as though he is greatly healed it still is a question whether he has enough of a voice to teach or take on a role like OC that he is easily mentally capable of taking on.
His stayimg around so long and apparently even queing up to have a returning coach "interview" with Jauron made me think that perhaps with favors being done by both men the scales were equaled.
My guess is though with Fairchild just coming aboard as OC that he has a QB coach coming with him and thus Wyche is gone, We'ell see in the next couple of days whether someone like the Rams QB coach comes over (then they made Wyche walk the plank or Wyche gets a job with MM in MI (which if it happens quickly probably means Wyche himself flew the coop.
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Moderator, thank you for putting together these Schneck threads and my apologies for missing the first post with this news when I started my thread!
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Agreed, I think this is a sign of security. Living in fear has been a staple at OBD for years as we went from Butler trying to prove he could get to the SB as GM without Polian (which I think he did as the final team was really his team more than Polian's IMHO).
However, a theme of the final Butler years was a continuing effort and overcompensation by him and Ralph trying to live life without a star like Jimbo at QB. Their fiscal and player assessment miscalculations around, TC, promising a fair shot to DF, paying too much too soon to RJ, adding in the fear factor of TD being overidden by avoiding gettin run out of town by a guy he hired, and the miscalculations of extending Bledsoe and then cutting Bledsoe have really been fatal mistakes based on insecuritt IMHO.
Its nice to see folks recognizing that they are not perfect and getting resources to supplement them even though these resources could replace them if necessary.
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If Bates comes here as DC it creates an interesting convergence of folks here.
Jauron is obviously the HC with actually two previous stops with HC experience in Chicago and as the interim in Detroit after Mooch was sent away with $10 million for sitting around.
His GM Marv is primarily known as an HC where his record as HC got him into the HOF.
A leftover on our staff from the TD/MM era is actually former HC Sam Wyche. There are signs that he well may stay here since he is under contract. My first guess was that he would leave as MM brought him in to return the favor to this former HC who left the game due to health, but the signs point to him staying as QB Coach right now.
Bates also has served as an HC when he did interim duty with the Fins before Saban came in, but he earned some support among fans and players to actually be named the HC until they attracted Saban.
It would be an interesting collection of talent as many HCs are ubcomfortable with even one former HC around as fans will call for the former to step up as soon as the bad times which always occur happen.
Ralph supposedly had to beat back Marv from resuming the HC job so he still thinks like an HC. It would be a very interesting poker game or a fun hot stove to be a fly on the wall watching these four talk shop.
If they hit it off it can be a potent team (however if Jerry Sullivan has his way) and they can be baited into a let's you and him fight we may yet have the same too many cooks problem that likely would have ravaged the Bills if we had been stupid enough to hire fomer GM Sherman as HC.
We'll see.
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BuffaloBills .com reports that long snapper Mike Schneck has been chosen by the Broncos staff as the special needs player they can bring to Hawaii.
While I assume that this happened in good part because Schneck is a well-respected vet who can do the long snapping job, that there is little which sets him above a lot of other long snappers in the league except that his punter Russ Moorman was voted in as punter so Schneck became the guy as the AFC coaches really had no one else who wanted to our could do the job.
Congrats!
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My guess is that complicated negotiations are going on.
It is not surprising that this would take a lot of time as both sides want to be tough to get the best deal they can, but also want to maintain a positive working relationship, because if the other side gets a bad feeling about the relationship they can simply walk away.
Bith sides have a lot of reasons they want this to work (for Bates it is the last NFL DC opening, but for the Bills Bates is a competent guy). However, they also have some good reasons why they should walk away from a bad deal.
If I am Bates, being Bills DC has some big negatives:
Jauron is a D guy which is nice in terms of my HC being interested in giving the D what it needs, however, Jauron has no O chops and he likely will want the D to be in his image and thus may meddle more than I want (for example Gray really ran an inappropriate GW D for our personnel, once liberated from GW's direction by TD bringing in LeBeau he quickly mastered the run blitz and called plays well in 2003 and ran the whole shooting match well in 2004.
If Bates comes here it is with the knowledge that rather than designing and running his system it will be to run Jauron's system.
However, if there is no other DC alternative it would seem that the walk-away for Bates is to go be a college HC. Indeintifying the correct alternative if he goes this way is complex.
If I am the Bills, I likely want Bates a lot as he is easily capable of doing the less complex task of running Jauron's D. As an interim HC he has managed much more complex tasks.
However, I now need to be pretty sure of the relationship with him as I want to be sure I can employ his extra capacuty in positive ways (if he and Jauron are confortable together he can be a great sounding board for HC Jauron.
It simply is going to take a little time for everyone to be sure that they can see how this works.
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Finally, someone else who is starting to see what I have been saying about D'bustashaw Ferguson. This guy does not translate to the NFL as a run blocker and wait until you see his bench press and 10 yard dash numbers. It is then that Ferguson will be moved down the board as a above average tackle with limited upside and will be a solid but not spectacular player at the NFL level.
So far at the Senior Bowl practices he has dominated Mattias Kiwaunka, whoppe, Kiwaunka is also going to be a bust at the NFL level. He is a 255 pound defensive tackle who plays with a high base, so of course D'Bustashaw has dominated him. Wait until he sees the likes of a Dwight Freeny, Jason Taylor, Richard Seymour.
Jason Peters has the size, strength and mobility to play left tackle in the NFL for a long time. He needs work on technique and has a far greater upside then Ferguson.
The Bills are not one player away and need help on the OL.
The folks who want us to reduce the resources we have to trade up for D'Bricka strike me as completely wrong. Even if he is that good in terms of the market price needed to get him, the cost of doing this would kill us.
On the other hand, if in fact this prospect fell down the board and we could trade down to get him and both work on him to improve his talent and use the extra resource we gained in trading down to strengthen the DL taking him may make sense.
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Maybe Marv put his foot down and threatened to hold his breath until he turned blue and Ralph decided not to hire Sherman because ofMarv's ego.
Even if this worse case were true, the Bills did the right thing by not hiring Sherman because the big problem I see right now with an owner promising to be more active managing the team, an inexperienced GM in having Marv around and having Modrak as a pseudo GM based in FLA is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen on this team.
The idea that this problem will be solved by adding yet another cook in fired GM Sherman to the mix makes little sense to me.
Why on earth some folks are so upset because we passed on adding an HC who was clearly pissed when the Pack stripped him of his GM responsibilities and left after he HC'ed this dismal lot he built to a 4-12 record makes little sense to me on the face of it.
Sherman coming here sounds like a replication of the Tom Donahoe scenario (TD was a wounded soul after Bill Cowher ran his butt out of Pittsburghlike Sherman is after they ran hisbutt out of GB.
The main difference is that some folks seem to expect him to IMPOSE his will and vision on the Bills (Sully's dumb words) when:
1. He would do this by imposing his will and vision on the inexperienced GM who hired him.
2. He would do this by imposing his will and vision on the owner who writes his checks.
3. He would do this by imposing his will and vision on a team where he is not the GM.
4. He would do this by imposing his will and vision when he just got canned in GB as GM because of his flawed team building efforts and then as HC when the team he built went 4-12 and he attempted to implement his will and vision.
And from this failed immediate background the expectation is that he is going to suceed in imposing his will and vision on a Bills team when he has far less power on the flowcharts than the inexperienced Marv, the owner whose money it is, and this would involved his imposing his will and vision above the pseudo-GN Modrak who also is above him on the flow chart.
As I think about it, the hiring of Sherman would likely have been sheer idiocy as a strategy and whether Marv did it for ego or by cool calculation it was the correct thing to do.
The inexperienced Levy certainly needs some supplementation to do the GM job, but the though of hiring Sherman to IMPOSE his will and vision seems like using a sledghammer to do open heart surgery.
Sherman is a powerful tool for good (if you ignore his recent records and live in the good works he did with Favre), but the radical surgery the Bills need (and we were so bad we need big time surgey) does not require a powerful but blunt tool tim impose his will and vision from a weaked position. We need some very skilled radical but delicate work making the many good tools the Bills have:
1. talented WRs but Moulds is an FA.
2. a talented RB who rushed for 2K quicker than any Bill but had a real power outage in the 2nd half of last year.
3. A vet QB who is a quality back-up but ain't a starter and a talented young QB who ain's starter quality yet (if he ever will be is a question).
4. An OL with lots of OK bodies and an extremely experienced position coach but no star player leadership
5. Some vague but completely unrealized talent at TE (the IR'ed Everett and Peters who apparently is an OL guy though I'm sorry his athleticism was never realized at TE) and a bunch of adequate at best players forced to start.
6. An LB crew once talked about as the best in football but the injury to Spikes and inability of Posey to be a force combines with a stand-up performance by Crowell to create questions.
7. An actually fairly deep and talented DB corps who between age and FA creates questions though all 4 starter have been to the Pro Bowl.
8. A DL crew which is simply far better on paper than in real life.
9. An ST crew which actually is simply one of the best in the NFL.
10. A front office of Modrak, Overdorf, Brandon etc that actually has done some demonstratively good work over the past few years (managing the cap, selling out games, moving camp to a mid-region facility).
Marv has his work cut out for him big time, but the task he has which he may not have the GM experience to do is to emphasize the good and de-emphasize and replace the bad. His skill shown as an HC bringing order to the Bickering Bills provides some hope (though gosh he is 80) but we need someone to supplement his skills not IMPOSE their will and vision.
I simply see no real way this would be likely to happen with the wounded Sherman complicating the mix.
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NOTE: I had to split this into 2 posts, because the quotes broke when it was just one. It was way too freaking long, lol.
Who was so qualified that didn't get an interview back then? I mean, it really seemed to help this year, people like James Lofton getting interviews and all.
The first question to ask to give you a good answer to your question of what qualified candidates did not get interviews would be to ask you what level of proof of this point do you require to convince you.
I ask this because there are some folks who need proof beyong a reasonable doub of this occuring to be convinced. I do not think I can make this showing so if that is what you require I will not even try.
I think it is actually quite facile for folks to require this level of proof as it is often used by those who want to argue an ideological point an not to address or understand this real world issue at all.
Requiring a level of proof of this point beyond a reasonable doubt is appriopriate in a court of law or to test the government when it tries to sanction an individual for breaking the law. However, it is common in our society to require a lesser burden of proof in other cases which either do not involve the government or simply involve money and not something more important like personal freedom.
In this particular case the standard of proof for this point because it does not involve the government at all and the NFL is a private business where both parties (the NFL and NFLPA) already aggree on the common point that the NFL in its hiring practices throughout its history reflected society's bias against people of color (in society it caused little things like slavery way back win and the Jim Crow laws to look at a time when the NFL existed) the standard of proof for most folks is actually a simple look at the broader stats and the existence of a few suspect cases.
The stats are seen in a history of the NFL simply not hiring or employing A-As in positions of leadership such as QB until the 90s when this practice became more routine or as HC where the % of A-A HCs still lags well behind the % of A-A forner players no gurantee of HC competence but a substantial pool of qualified candidates or trails significantly the pool of A-A OCs (again no guarantee of quality HC work but again a substantial pool of qualified candidates.
The race based statistical variation represents sufficient proof for the NFL. Bob DiCesare and many other media outlets, myself and I think most rational folks. I think based on this sense of reality virtually any of the 6 A-A HCs in todays game are by definition qualified candidates and all of them experienced some delay in thweir finally getting an GC job that quite reasonably can be seen as being answers to your question.
For specific examples, Tony Dungy had a resume which probably merited him getting an HC job a couple of years before TB snapped him up. Marvin Lewis provides an even clearer case of a man who was qualified yet he went two off-seasons where in retrospect he should have gotten a job. In fact, the tampering rules which were applied to his case the year the Ravens won it all resulted in him only getting one interview with the Bills and hewas not hired the next year either. If you want to look beyond this pool of 6 folks demonstrably qualified then look at the Art Shell case where he racked up a clear winning record as HC and took several teams to the playoffs. He did not get a second shot and has not been repeatedly interviewed for HC jobs.
Can it be demonstrated beyond a reasonable doubt that this happened due to their race? No. However, this is not the vurden of proof required for this provate business to set up the Rooney rule.
In fact high levels of proof seem to generally be required by those more interested in making some ideological point rather than dealing with the real world of fairness in the NFL and employee relations in the NFL.
If you are willing to be convinced by the same level of proof which has moved the NFL to action and I think most reasonable folks accept then the statistical occurence of an NFL failure to historically and currently employ people of A-A descent in leadership positions is proof enough. These stats are buttressed by the real world experiences of most of the men who are and were A-A HCs.
If on the other hand you require some higher level of proof which is inappropriate in this case because it is not the courts and the actor here is a private business and not the government then I am not sure that any level of proof will really convince you so the fact that one is unlikely to be able to array proof of racial discrimination beyond a reasonable doubt or whatever is a waste of time anyway
How, exactly, is interviewing a minority candidate for a HC job going to help people getting coordinator jobs? It seems to me that the head coach would hire the coordinator, not the GM/Owner. After all, its HIS staff.
Even token interviews can help A-A hiring in several ways:
1. Interviews provide an access point into the good ol boy network. Unfortunately with many jobs it is not what you know but who you know. The interviews allow potential candidates to meet hirers and have significant interaction with folks from other teams which they would not have without the Rooney rule,
2, Even token interviews provide practice. One of the things which folks look for from an HC is for someone who is cool and calm. Almost all of us can remember how scared we were the first time we ever did a job interview. Practice makes perfect and by going through the interview process once A-A candidates can present themselves better the next time.
3. Failing to get an HC job may out you on the radar screen for a co-ordinator position. If a candidate interviews for an HC job and does not get it, but impresses the GM or owner in the interview the next step after the HC hire is to get coordinators, i could be the coach walks in with his team, but it is actually the rare case an HC walks in with his entire team ready to go. His first choices may be under contract elsewhere, the wives of his first choices may not want to move or move their kids out of town and a host of other reasons.
In fact, in some cases almost certainlu part of the Jauron interview was Marv and Ralpj letting him know that since 8 of the coaches are under contract to the Bills he is not going to hire or name his staff. The vest teams are TEAMS and the HC will usually have a major say but far from the only say in who gets coordinator Jobs. The co-ords obviously must get a long with the HC but he does not have total
control alone.
4. Part of your resume is actually the validation you receive from other NFL teams judging you to be worthy of an interview. Other teams having expressed interest can be a useful tool in getting additional interviews or getting the team you are currently with to value you more.
This point that doing interviews helps seem fairly obbious to me.
Let's take a look at the AA HCs this year, and the Rooney Rule's effect on them:
- Dennis Green - None. He was hired because of the pretty decent job he did in Minnesota. Was looked at as Arizona's savior.
- Marvin Lewis - None. Considered an extremely good and hot coaching candidate.
- Lovie Smith - None. Also considered an extremely good and hot coaching candidate.
- Tony Dungy - None. Hired by Indianapolis because he did a good job with Tampa Bay.
- Romeo Crennell - None. Considered an extremely good and hot coaching candidate.
- Herman Edwards - None. Hired before the Rooney Rule went into effect.
I think you make the mistake here of looking at the Rooney rule too narrowly.
First, it and I am refering to more than just the requirement of doing 1 A-A interview. One of the most impressive things to me about this program is that it also calls for a number of A-A internships and other intiatives designed to increase the qualifications of AA HC candidates.
All of these men as AAs have benefited from the increased focus on A-A hiring as a good thing to do and something the GMs talk about amongst themselves quite a bit. Onr of the difficult things in any situation where there are a zillion candidates is simply getting noticed and the heightened focus on A-A hiring does that.
Second, this is a program about career path and not just one job. At least twp pf the guys on your list were named asst coaches at some point in their careers This position was created and is used more widely due to the Rooney rule changes that allows employees to be meddled with by other teams even when they are under contract if it is for a higher level job. It was a part of both Lewis and Edwards moving up the food chain and switching teams.
Third, just as it is difficult to say beyond a reasonable doubt that a job was denied due to race it is difficult to say it was given because of the Rooney rule. Lovie Smith IMHO strikes me as a fellow who would not be an HV today if it were not due to the Rooney rule.
Again in terms of what one chooses to believe this goes back to not only standard or proof but also benefit of the doubt. I think it is pretty settled agreement with the NFL that the NFL discriminated against A-As asa routine practice until the CBA sinaled the beginning of the partnership between the NFL and NFLPA.
I think Millen and Detroit shut up and took their fine because rather than the NFL needing a showing or proof positive that Detroit had ignored the Rooney rule, it was in fact Detroit which had the burden of proof to demonstrate how they had taken action to meet the goals of increased A-A interviews an hiring/
In the world of idology or philosophy the burden of proof id on those who claim racism. In the real world and the NFL, the burden of proof is on each team to demonstrate diligent and it is to be hoped effective action,
You are right my orifinal post was too long do I will try to get back to responding to your responses later.
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Anyone who watched the game have seen players who go down with what seems to be a minor injury never come back to play or come back but never be the same despite the thought they would be fine.
However, there are real world examples of folks like Willis McGahee who from every report of the massive knee injurieS he suffered it looked like his career was done and if he ever came back on the field it would more likely be as a waterboy rather than as a player. Yet he made it to 2000 yards rushing faster than any Bill (including Thurman and OJ) ever.
Your fears regarding TKO are real, but to worry about them at this point with no reports of problems in his rehab or no medical word of problems says more about the poster than about the facts of his injury.
Don't get your panties all up in a wad over this for now.
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Bob DiCeasare wrote an interesting columni n the Buffalo News today which can be found at this web link
> http://www.buffalonews.com/editorial/20060125/1054393.asp <
In the column h summarizes the results achieved by the NFL through use of the Rooney rule which requires teams to interview at least one African-American for HC.
The article basically takes the opinion through DiCeasare's cut and quotes from a diversity activist with the Fritz Pollard Alliance that the Rooney rule has suceeded so far in that people of A0A descent are in fact getting inteviews and even multiple interviews which is a vast improvement in folks at least getting a shot compared to days a few short years ago in 2000 when interviews of qualified candidates who happened to be of African-American descent were few and far between.
These two site these interviews as not only an improvement over the non-activity which happened before, but site statitistical outcomes that what some refer to as "token interviews has in fact accompanied the % of A-A cooridnators being 30% and also the number of A-A HCs rising from 2 prior to the Rooney Rule to 5 today.
DiCeasare is troubled by the number of A-A HCs not rising this year (Oakland still needs to decide and Herm Edwards got a new HC job in KC but since he left an HC job in NY to get it the total number is the same.
However, both seem to view what DiDeasare refers to as a "whitewash" of no A-As being hired is a troubling return to form for an NFL where the stats clearly reflected a racial impact in hiring, but seem to advocate a wait and see and do not suggest the NFL take harsher actions (like what I think would be a stupid adoption of a quota but we;ll see what Rev, Jester Jackson has to say when the final hiring is done).
The column actually leads off by pointing to the outstanding results that those 5 HCs of A-A decent achieved this year. 3 division championships and Lovie Smith being name Coach of the Year.
I think this ironically is a dangerous game as actually the move against the practices which resulted in a racially biased outcome in the past were based on the dumb notion that somehow there was some racial related element to HC skill (idiots like Jimmy the Greek or Al Campanis saying A-As lacked the "necessities" for leadership).
I can see why they cite this because it simply is the fact. In addition, because the NFL virtually refused to hire people of A-A descent as HCs or made them wait far longer than their resumes indicated for getting their shot, the A-A candidates out there to be hired are some of the best men for the job like a Dungy or a Marvin Lewis so when the NFL owners finally ignore race and focus on getting Ws of course the initial hires are some of the best candidates out there.
Still I liked this column as it cited real numbers rather than irrelevant opinions (for example some folks still foolishly point to the percentage of the A-A population of the US and claim that because the A-A percentage of HC exceeds this number then everything is fair. This irrelevant perspective is foolish because the comparison should not be between the US population and the number of hires but be between the guesstimate of the pool of qualified applicants of A-A descent and the number of HC hires.
No one can say for sure what that number of qualified A-A candidates is, but given that the ex-player pool is a source for these qualified applicants (being a retiree is no guarantee one will be a good HC but it is a relevant place to look for qualified applicants) and a najority of the current and recent ex-players are A-A. Also, given that the pool of qualified applicants is also fed by the former co-ordinators (again no guarantee of success, just look at GW and MM) and it is about 30% these are far more relevant #s than the A-A US population % (unless one is a moron than actually believes in quotas).
Some folks also make the irrelevant complaint that Asian-Americans like Norm Chow are not considered qualifying interviews under the Rooney rule even though Asians are a discriminated against minority in the US population.
Again this point is irrelevant to what the Rooney rule is trying to do. The Rooney rule seeks to remediate clear discrimination against African-Americans which happened in the NFL not discrimination which happened in America. If the Rooney rule was designed to make the NFL HC hires look like America demographically, then not only would it include Norm Chow, but it would be working to get 17 women occupying the 32 NFL HC jobs. The Rooney rule is designed to renediate the discrimination against qualified African-American candidates which forced qualified (and now divsion winning HC) candidates like Tiny Dungy and Marvin Lewis to have to wait far longer than their resumes seem to dictate or their results as KC indicate. It was designed to try to give folks like Lovie Smith an opportunity so that they did not have to go through the same wait that a Dungy or Lewis went through.
It is unfortunate that with so many HC jobs open this year that the number of A-A HCs has not gone up one notch. I think there is little proof for individual owners of being guilty of Marge Schott like racism and most likely it is simply the inefficiency (ad stupidity in Matt Millen's case) pf the good ol boy network that has seen NFL team after NFL team pass on hiring an HC eho can almost certainly lead them to more Ws and profits and instead hire an idiot like Marty Morninwheg, flat out ignore the Rooney rule to get Mooch (who ironically after getting fined for patent violation of the rules and paying him a mint had to fire him owing him appx $10 million to sit o his butt) and now he has hired an HC who I guess gets the benefit of the doubt but Marinelli was not even a co-ordinator and he got an HC job (some folks think that the scientific method which Millen uses is to only hire HCs whose last names start with M).
At any rate, I think the column is good because it makes some key points which a show that the Rooney rule and programs associated with it have worked to:
1. Get A-A candidates foot in the door to get interviews where previously there was next to none.
2. That given the opportunity of interviews and increased focus by the league on A-A hiring the % of HCs of A-A descent has tripled from 2 to 6 even though it still lags far behind the % of total A-A players and the % of A0A co-ordinators.
3. The outstanding performance of these A-A HCs has really shown the notion recited publicly by some opinion leaders in the sports world that men of A-A heritage lack necessities to be effective leaders was just dumb.
4. That this increase of what some have called "token" interviews has coincided with an increase in hiring of coordinators of A-A descent.
5. That this year's "whitewash" is troubling but it is good to hear some voices of moderation not calling for some draconian stupid approach like quotas but instead are talking more rationally about some positive advancements based on increased opportunity as well as us not getting to a race blind society yet in terms of the results and reversal of numbers caused by past discrimination.
I know some folk are locked into the past and ar quick to recite irrelevant measures like conlusions based on US population demographics or which ignore the past un-American discrimination and merely claim we should be race blind today when clearly decison-makers in the Marge mode of racism or the Matt Millen mode of incompetency cannot be be race blind or produce a race-blind result,
However, i like the info in this column and wish it was up on TBD.
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You know, the more I think about Rusty Jones the more it's making me seethe. W@hy did this have to happen? He has been here how many years? I'm taking a guess at 19. To me, a guy like this is more important than most players. Good players don't have the longest window of opportunity but a guy like Rusty CONDITIONS these players. He affects the WHOLE team. No, Donahoe definitely had some baggage too. Good riddance!
My understanding of the Rusty Jones dumping was that it actually was initiated by the arrival of MM bexause he had his own strength, diet and conditioning guy that he brought with him and thus Rusty was out.
One can certainly blame TD if you want for this, since the buck stops with him. However, given that Rusty was here for several years under TD with him surviving Butler leaving and the transition to GW (I think he even ended with a new title and promotion in TD's first initial years. It doesn't seem like having the head of Rusty Jones on his soul is among the chief sins and failures as our GM one can reasonably lay on him.
In fact, if I hired a new HC whom I thought was the guy for the HC job, if he said he wanted to bring his strength coach with him as part of his team I would say adios to my holdover strength coach from the old GM regime.
There is something to be said for preserving tradition and if team player leaders stepped up an asked me to save the old guy who has been cleaning towels in the locker room for 40 years I would certainly save him our of tradition even if he is easily and towels are clean more cost effectively by some new machine. Tradition matters so you keep the old geezer around.
However, if it came down to my new HC wanting his conditioning coach as partof his team and keeping a valued but replceable guy hired by the old regime, the nice conditioning guy is gone unless enough players and local folks stand up for him.
If it is fact that MM brought in his own guy the fault probably lies with the players and local folks not standing up to keep Rusty around/
As far as Reimersma, he did seem to be a stand up guy who had deep religious beliefs. However, the public reports were that he was given a balloon salary payment on the back end of contract which would reward him for great play or could renegotiated down or the Bills would cut him if he did not play at great or very good level.
The Bills agreed to the contract so JR had a legal and practical right to make them pay. However, as the Bills never developed a quality TE, JR found himself in a situation where even though his play was not great or even good at TE (though he was a nice guy off the field) they could not cut him even though he was paid far beyind his worth for play on the field his last year.
JR was in his rights to stick it to the Bills and leave us fans rooting for a team which was paying a lot more for a TE than JR's play and stick it to the Bills he did. I hope he realizes that rather than being screwed by the agreement with the Bills he actually was paid far more than his play deserved.
Nice guy or not I think it is a little irrational to shed tears over JR being cut. he is crying all the way to the bank if he is whining about it (which since I think he was a quality guy I doubt he is).
Vince Young MAY be there at Buffalo's selection
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I'd advocate the Bills only draft Young if he too wears a gas tank during the draft show (see the odd thread about Shaq vs. Kobe in football if you want to waste time undertstanding this arcane reference) so that he bursts into flame when his buds pat him on the back and he hugs someone.