ATBNG
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Posts posted by ATBNG
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No team is going to trade the 5th pick in the draft for the 20th, that is so ludicrous it doesn't bear more than a sentence. It makes no sense and the agent of the 20th pick would argue his client would be worthy of the same money regardless of regular slotting because the deal was even up.
If you meant that 33% play to or above their number, than I apologize AD, although I'm not sure I agree with your numbers.
But...if you agree trading the 5th for the 20th is ludicrous, then how can you defend the Losman trade? That's looking like it is exactly what TD did (except he threw in a 2nd and a 5th to boot!).
I love veteran players (and Spikes). Of course you sign a guy like that - he's a leader and a great player. I think though that a mix of youth and veterans is what teams strive for. Carolina and New England had a lot of rookies contribute last year.
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This thread astounds me.
Donahoe is selling you on hope. JP, Evans, and Willis look good now because they're largely unknown pro quantities. I hope they're great, but the results on the field show that he's done a lousy job building the core of this team.
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It's about the number. You are looking at a short list from one draft. Go back over the last 15 years and look at all the first rounders. You will see that about 33% of them play to their number. Another 33% become productive NFL players (though overpaid), with the remaining being busts. That's a pretty decent percentage of chance to take when you think about what a proven veteran can do for similiar financial consideration.
Saying that no player picked in the first round in the last 15 years played above and beyond his cap number is inaccurate.
Teams don't swap their picks for a variety of reasons that are pretty easy to understand. You also don't see N.E. (a team with multiple first rounders) packaging them up to move up and get the so called "impact" players.If this were true - if there was ever an NFL team that outright preferred to be in the bottom part of the draft rather than the top part - then some team at some point would have made a trade reflecting that - an even up swap of 1st round picks in the same year. It has never happened.
You're right that many successful teams have been built through the middle and bottom of the draft. I'm sure that trading a high first rounder for two lower first rounders is a sound strategy much of the time. This however was a lopsided deal - pick "20" for pick (say "1-15") + a 2nd and a fifth. If he got back a 2nd and a fifth, it would be just about right.
Donahoe must be giving out some sweet Kool-Aid. This was not about the long term. This is about a GM desperate to hang onto his job because he knows the clock is ticking, so he decided a bird in hand was worth two in the bush. If he was worried about future cap money, he would have cut Drew and taken the hit for this year. Instead, he renegotiated him and moved some of his cap hit out into the future. Again - the strategy seems to be that Donahoe wanted every possible angle covered so he could survive this year.
He's killing the franchise.
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I don't know about listless. I mean, the Cardinals put up 9 runs last night. Tonight they looked listless after the 4th inning though.
LaRussa is a good manager and is a very laid back guy, I think some of that rubs onto his team. I'm not sure if that's a bad thing though.
You Boston fans on this board would be very disgusted at some of the Boston trolls that are just flooding the Cardinals board. It's ridiculous.
That makes them no better then the Chokees fans.
Almost all the Sox fans I know have the utmost respect for the Cardinals and their fans BF. There's always going to be a few nitwits with self-esteem issues who choose to take happy moments and choose to torment others with them rather than enjoy them. It's pathetic - don't let 'em get to you.
The eight errors (and the defense should be worse with Ortiz out there) worry me the most, but maybe Pedro has one last gem in his holster. We'll see.
I think you're right - the core of the team is somewhat placid like LaRussa. In my view, the most disappointing Cardinal was Williams - I thought his concentration was lacking for a veteran yesterday. Morris looked like he just didn't have enough velocity to be effective tonight - the breaking stuff looked good but he didn't have enough juice to keep the Sox off balance.
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Whether it is Drew or the offensive line, the real root of the problem is Tom Donahoe. He needs to go.
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I agree the Sox are in good position. A win tonight is huge as when they go to St. Louis they are pitching Pedro, Lowe, and Wakefield. Should be a great series. But you Sox fans should be happy you played defense like crap, your pitching staff was exposed by a good hitting team (not a Yankee team that went up to the plate flailing away) and you still win. Should give you guys confidence!
I don't agree with the pitching staff getting exposed. Wakefield pitched very poorly and walked too many guys. Everyone else was fine - the bad plays in the field led to four of the runs. The Yankees have much better hitting than the Cardinals do.
I do agree with what you're saying though - really, the Sox did not deserve to win based on fundamentals. They mashed their way out of it.
Tonight's game is big - if the Sox win it, the Cardinals will be forced to win the World Series at Fenway Park.
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BF - he'll definitely start, but I can't fathom that the Cards won't try bunting a few times to get him running around on his ankle with Womack, Renteria, etc. The Yanks seemed like they were waiting for him to hurt himself rather than attacking his weakness.
I'm pleased to be facing the Cards - I have a ton of respect for the franchise, its fans, its manager, and so many of the players. Both teams are very deserving. I thought that the crowd singing God Bless America in game 7 in St. Louis was terrific. May the best team win!
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As a person who lives in this hell hole of New England I have to tell you that most Pats/redsox/celtic fans are the biggest aholes alive and to see so many of you pulling with them makes me sick. im no yankee fan by any means but let me ask all of you this question?
If the Bills had ever won a superbowl and had a baseball team on the verge of going to the world series,,,,do you think that pat fans would be pulling for us?
ARE YOU INSANE.....they hate us and love to see us miserable! Thats why you should NEVER ROOT FOR ANY BOSTON SPORT!
There are no bigger pr@#@ks in sports than New England fans....BELIEVE ME!!! They are the bottom feeders of teh world when it comes to taunting other teams fans!
:I starred in Brokeback Mountain: SOX NATION AND TAkE BRADY WITH YOU!
Your paranoia is outrageous. There's 44 other states if you really feel like it's a hellhole here. Why would you live somewhere you dislike?
I despise this idea that all Boston/Pats fans want to see other fans be miserable. I certainly don't. Every team has classy fans and fans at the opposite end of the spectrum. It's the way of the world.
Boston fans have had some good classy moments - anyone else remember "Beat LA!"?
Don't paint with a broad brush Rudy - you will always be wrong.
Go Sox!
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Be careful with those Everclear references - Drew might read this board.
I can't even begin to predict tonight's game. I think the Sox need an early lead to keep the momentum flowing. These grinders favor the home team so much. Jon Lieber's home pitching has flown completely under the radar - he's been great and he's pretty much the last starter on either team left that doesn't have enormous question marks.
I'm frazzled. The entire Pats playoff run last year took less time than these last two baseball games, and these games have literally hundreds of pitches where the game could end for either side. It's good stuff actually.
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hahahah, poor kids....
must be sinking in for you....
Yanks own you.......
Another wasted year.......
Yanks will go out and buy pitching next year.......
You will not make the playoffs next year.......
You suck.......
I can just go on and on.....
Dont hate guys, Boston will have their day...... Only on playstation! Start you season....!
This is pretty pathetic.
Can't you just be happy that your team won without the need to shove it in someone's face (someone who might already be upset enough without having to hear this kind of nonsense)? Gloating and taunting is for children NBF.
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As a Sox fan, I would term these members of the organization as "classy" on the Yankees.
Rivera, Williams, Jeter, Matsui, Lieber, Torre, Gordon, Sierra, El Duque, Randolph.
Not classy - Sheffield, Brown, Giambi, Sturtze, Lofton, Posada, Mussina, Big Stein, little Stein and (especially) Rodriguez.
It's a tie!
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They very well could win the next 3 games. Doubtful...but possible.
I think Arrojo is going to get lit up. Everyone is banking on the fact that "the Sox hit better at home". Well, DUH. Fenway is a hitters paradise! The Yanks will hit better at Fenway too. So I say it balances out.
I can see these next three games being higher scoring, but I would rather have Brown on the hill (an ace with playoff expierence) over Arrojo (good, but young and can be rattled) anyday. But Wakefield vs a banged up Hernandez is a good matchup for the Sox.
So if they can beat Brown (certainly possible) and get a good outing from Wakefield then it could be 2-2.
But then Lowe will pitch game 5...not good.
I suspect Pedro will pitch game 5 now.
They'll try to get Schilling doped up for game 6 and then throw Arroyo on 3 days if there is a game 7.
A lot needs to go right for the Sox, and it has to start today.
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Excuse me while I whip this out....
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Exactly - he's played his whole career with no one consistently good at QB, and how many different coordinators...etc.
My honest answer on this question is that it depends on how durable he is throughout the season. If he plays like he has so far and stays on the field, I think he comes back. If he ends up starting 12 games, I think the organization might not feel he's worth the investment. It's a pretty good question actually.
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Obviously his PT is VERY limited, but how is McGahee's pass blocking?
I don't see this plan being very plausible with Miami coming to town. They still have a good pressure defense. The 32 O/U might be the lowesr seen all year.
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stevestojan - somewhere in the world there are goats that escaped recently. Donahoe is 100% correct that that situation has nothing to do with the Bills' troubles.
You are correct that it is "scapegoats" (one word). He probably used two words and his transcriber edited "scape" due to the spell check.
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Losman hasn’t played a down in the NFL yet, so I think that it is painfully obvious that it is not yet fair to judge yet whether this trade is good or bad.
The fair criticism of Donahoe, which I think is entirely valid, is that his actions last offseason were entirely inconsistent. He made what in all likelihood was going to be a bad “value” trade for the rights to get Losman – he acquired a “low” first but gave up an unknown first, a second and a fifth to do so. Granted, 2004 is thought to be a better draft than 2005 and that mitigates this somewhat (someone earlier pointed out correctly in the thread that it can be a bad thing to have a high pick in a bad draft, because you have to pay out the same dollars as you do in a good draft), but it still seems like he was likely to lose in the end on “value.” Just based on pure statistics, the 2005 pick was 70% likelier to be higher in the draft than the 2004 pick he acquired, and he gave up a 2nd (in a very good draft) and a fifth on top of it.
The performance of the actual players dealt/picked will ultimately determine this (and their performance in relation to the cap), but I thought Donahoe was basically hitting on 18 here – sure Losman might be the magic 3, but the odds were against the deal working out in Buffalo’s favor. Also, Donahoe has been in Buffalo long enough now to accept full responsibility for being put in this situation where is faced with the possibility of having no answers in the near future at QB, so when he makes a bad “value” deal such as this one, he only has his own past mistakes to blame for being in this unenviable position.
Let’s ignore Losman for a second. If Donahoe is then going to rationalize this deal by saying that Losman is a rare talent and that the Bills needed to give a little extra to get him because of this fact and because there is nothing on the horizon in college for the next two seasons, then why restructure Drew later in the summer instead of cutting him? Be decisive and go with Losman and bring in a lower priced veteran for 2004 who might have to take the reins for a while (but hopefully would play backup). Take the hit on Drew but set your cap up for more flexibility down the road (I realize it is not as simple as this, and that the acceleration might have meant losing other players).
Instead, Donahoe hedged his bet on Losman by bringing Drew back. So let’s consider what might have happened with Drew. He either was going to play at the level he has (which I think most would say is mediocre by NFL standards – even “Drew” backers would admit that part of what they hope for with him is a return to form to early 2002 or mid 1998) or he was going to play significantly better. If he were to play well (and subsequently the Bills were to win more games), the pick decreases in value but the need for Losman also decreases. If he were to play badly (and subsequently the Bills continued to play .400 ball as they had since he arrived), the need for Losman would be enhanced but now that 2005 pick is a much bigger price to pay for Losman.
It seems as though Donahoe gambled that the Bills would do well and that Drew would play badly, making the future pick less valuable and making the need for JP more justifiable. Instead, almost the exact opposite has happened – Bledsoe has played OK yet the Bills can’t win a game. I think the latter scenario that has played out has been quite unlucky. I think the former scenario was a preposterous thing to plan for by Donahoe.
There seems to be a sentiment among some in the thread that they would have had to take a QB in the 2005 draft had they not done the Losman trade. If you really believe that, then that in and of itself is a real criticism of Donahoe, because a good general manager in this league does not put his team in that position.
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You must think that Peyton Manning is the only QB to audible, since he's the only one that feels the need to put on a show when he does it.
I still can't get over that egomaniacal demonstration AT HOME against Green Bay with 2:40 left where he did the whole "talk to all 10 players" routine after he publicly had a conversation with Hochuli right before the play about which clock would run out first.
He also steps forward all the time, but somehow this isn't a false start.
He also is about as interesting as a piece of sand. I just don't get it.
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As for the Bledsoe "looking pretty good at the end of the game making the correct quick read when the Pats were blitzing heavily every down"...funny but I had the exact opposite reaction. The Pats blitzed Rodney harrison the exact same way down after down and it still took us a few tries before we could actually see it and react appropriately...and we still didn't get a first down.
I really think that the problem isn't that Bledsoe is susceptible to the blitz, it's this entire offense that is susceptible to the blitz.
I think that last sentence is really well stated Rubes.
I may admittedly fall victim to keeping my eye on Drew (due to his ex-Pat status) and Moulds (who is my favorite player on the Bills) above all else when watching the Bills on O. When they started bringing six in the fourth quarter (including Harrison), Moulds broke off his route and Drew hit him quickly for two or three decent gains. Drew and Eric may have been the only ones with that type of synergy (in EM's case, talent?) though, and once the Pats threw a second guy over near EM, they may not have had a viable second option.
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I think those calls are a separate issue MBD. I don't think you're incorrect on thinking those two were sketchy, and I'd actually add to the bad break for Buffalo pile the Fletcher RTP penalty on Brady where the hit looked pretty clean to me. But these are situations which neither team can really control - they're in the hands of the zebras.
The playcall/execution on the 4th down sack/fumble/return and the offsides penalty would be the two main examples of plays where the Bills had their fates in their own hands and came up short execution-wise. You would agree, no?
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I think that you guys are all overreacting here. 0-3 is not the end of the season!
Most of the New England scuttlebutt has been that the Bills played like a talented team with a self destructive streak and some integration issues (especially on offense).
I actually thought that Bledsoe was decent back there yesterday. The TD to Moulds was a prime example of Drew at his best – step, flick and throw a ball perfectly downfield. I also thought he looked pretty good at the end of the game making the correct quick read when the Pats were blitzing heavily every down – certainly a world ahead of where he was in the last game of 2003 where he essentially redefined the meaning of sluggish.
The thing I would work on most with this offense is plays on third and fourth down. Obviously the 4th down sack/fumble/TD was a disaster on pretty much every level. Beyond that, the Bills never seemed to have a confidence in how they were going to convert short yardage – lots of quick difficult throws downfield that belies their lack of faith in their protection. The coaches need to make a breakthrough with the players. Everybody from MM to DB to TH to SW to TM to the line to the wideouts is to blame. Agree on that, and commit to fixing it.
The Jets looked very average against Miami. The Bills in losing played a lot better than the Jets did in winning. There is no reason why they can’t go to Giants’ stadium and beat them – the Jets along with Atlanta are the two teams in the NFL who have benefited most from a soft early schedule. Edwards can have his moments coaching. The Bills need an all out effort to turn the tide, and they need it this week.
If Buffalo wins this week, they can make a huge move in the chase for the wild card. The AFC East has a pretty soft schedule this year with the AFC Central and NFC West, and is very likely to yield two playoff teams (especially if Miami remains this atrocious). Beat the Jets this week while holding serve at home later this season, and now you’re only one loss behind them (and they’ve played Miami once and not yet played New England). The scenarios get much rougher with a loss, but the Jets simply aren’t that good.
As far as all the “panic” moves that are being debated, it just simply isn’t the time. You build your team in the offseason. You’re not going to find an impact tight end, quarterback or safety on the waiver wire or on your practice squad. The Bills need to have faith that if they can eliminate their propensity for mental errors, they can compete with anyone in the league in terms of talent.
Stick it out – you may be rewarded.
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I think that if the Bills' defense plays as hard as it did today that there is a good chance that they will beat the Jets.
Pennington and that offense looked very average today. They won because Jay Fiedler threw one of the five worst passes I have ever seen an NFL QB throw and had it returned for a touchdown.
They're 4-0, but they haven't beaten anyone respectable yet. Definite paper tiger material if you ask me - due to their early schedule.
Whatever Happened to the Dead Horse Beaters Club??
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Hey - I'm still here.
The 32 character name was messing up the front page for some posters, so I shortened it.
I still hate Gilbride though.