racketmaster
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His catch rate was even lower than Johnny Wilson
I’m assuming that that wanted a physical blocking presence in the run game similar to what Gabe brought but that just seems to high of a pick for his skill set
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I keep hearing that Coleman has much better hands that Gabe Davis but his catch rate was 57.5% last year which was definitely on the lower end of draft prospects. Part of the lower catch rate has to do with such a high portion of his catches ending up being contested since there is no separation. When he makes the jump ball or contested catch it ends up on his highlights and many are sensational plays. However, when you watch all of his targets you see a lot of drops and battles he did not win and come down with the ball.
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In the consensus top 15 wrs, the Bills managed to take the one guy I was hoping they would avoid due to lack of speed and separation. He is a contested catch guy which is a hard way to make a living but who knows maybe Coleman can manage to make it work for him in the NFL. He is still young, so many he can learn to become a more savvy route runner in order to gain a little more separation from defenders.
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So many other good players on the board.
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I guess I would have been more accepting of Coleman at end of 3rd round. This guy is so inconsistent catching the ball, lacks the ability to celebrate, fumbles and then makes the occasional sensational play. I feel like Josh Allen wanted Coleman because he likes to try and hurdle defenders.
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9 minutes ago, LabattBlue said:
Very puzzling to give up the 5th year of player control for what?
I think the 5th option is more important for qbs as it gives significant savings in the option year. For other positions, the 5th year option price is often pretty high and not much of a savings at all.
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1 hour ago, Roundybout said:
He is, IMO, the best route runner in the draft. Every route he does is crisp and clean. It's Diggs-like.
You don't get compared to Terrell Owens for nothing. We can have Samuel for deep balls, I want Odunze because he can be dangerous where Josh is dangerous - comebacks, posts, and hitch routes.
Rome had the 4th most targets in the nation last year that helped contribute to his stat line. Malik Washington had similar targets and similar overall stats but probably will be had in the 4th. I understand that Rome has prototypical size and that matters but I don’t really see the quick snapping off of routes and separation that Turner sees in Odunze. I more often than not see non SEC defenders draped all over him when being targeted. And there is nothing special that he does to elude defenders, run away from or break the tackles of defenders once he has the ball in his hands. For me, he does not possess elite traits of a top 10 wr. I would hope the Bills don’t make the mistake of parting with significant assets for Rome. If he fell to 28, I would be fine but still don’t see him as a difference maker or matchup problem. Just a reliable consistent wr.
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Too costly for Harrison/Nabers and don’t see those guys as legitimate options.
Odunze - as stated just don’t see it but if he fell to the second round I’d be happy to grab him there, which seems very unlikely given the consensus thinking around him.
Brian Thomas - immediately jumps off screen with his speed and length. He is smooth and just can run away from SEC defenders. He needs improve in overall routes but he has elite skills that cannot be taught. I completely understand trading up into the low 20s or even mid teens for this guy.
At 28, I would not mind Franklin or even Worthy. I like Franklins overall game better but Worthy was a much better route runner than I anticipated. Hill like speed and burst. Just small and not sure ho well he would hold up. Could see Chiefs targeting this guy.
Mitchell - hard to figure out as sometimes he looks like Lamb with his ability to separate with elite route running. But he also seems to have some inconsistency with his hands and he gets too squatty when running and I seems him trip over himself a number of time in the open field. I think second round is where I’d feel more comfortable.
Leggette - he has AJ Brown like traits but I think less bend in him. He is a little more stiff like DK but I like him in the second and probably like him more than Mitchell.
Burton is first round talent but character concerns seem to be pushing him down boards. I also like Polk, Cowing and Malik Washington as options to double dip. Johnny Wilson was also more impressive to me than I would have thought at his height. Maybe could be a Marcus Colston type.4 minutes ago, Back2Buff said:Very well said. Don't forget to mention he played with an elite play caller and an elite long ball QB. Allen isn't in the same tier as Penix with the deep ball. Odunze also got to play with Polk and McMillian, two very good WRs.
I also can't get his last game out of my head, where he was wide opened, turned the wrong way and dropped the ball. Reminded me of Gabe Davis.
Agreed. I went in watching his games thinking too 10 wr and just was very disappointed in what I saw. Maybe some of it has to do with expectations but I just feel like everything about his traits and skills are average. No real deficiencies but nothing that makes him a match up problems either.
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Odunze may have the character the Bills look for in players but I just don’t see the elite talent from him. I have to think this guy falls outside the top 10 and don’t see him in the same tier as Nabers and Harrison. He had tons of targets in his offense to rack up stats and high volume does not necessarily equal elite. I struggled to see what elite skills as a wr he brings to the table. Often very little separation from defenders leading to having tons of contested catch opportunities. I just don’t see any elite burst/explosion from this guy and it shows up in his inability to separate in his routes and run away from defenders when he has the ball. His jumping ability in contested catches seems average, certainly nothing special. Hands are good but not great as there were many dropped passes on tape. No real elusiveness when ball in his hands and he had several fumbles. Speed, burst, body control, route running, hands, vertical, elusiveness all seem to be just good but nothing jumps out at me.
I would absolutely hate to trade up near top 10 for Rome. A player like Chase took me 2 games to watch and be able to see the elite explosion, speed, body control. Not a big fan of trading up unless for a qb but if so, wr has to clearly portray elite traits to make his ceiling worth it. Should not give up picks just because he has a low floor.
I think Thomas and Franklin are actually better players/prospects than Odunze. They both display elite speed on the field and the ability to separate from defenders. I’d much prefer those options and Franklin can probably be had sitting at 28. I really don’t see much of a difference in overall talent between Polk and Odunze. I like Polk a lot as a 2nd or 3rd round player and I would feel the same if Odunze were to be drafted in the early to mid second.
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If one wanted to play the game of putting the puzzle pieces together to make a guess at who the Bills might be targeting at WR you could look at what pro day Beane decided to attend on 3/20 this year. Texas, (Worthy and Mitchell) Ohio State (Harrison Jr), USC (Rice) and Alabama (Burton) had pro day on same day this year and Beane elected to attend Alabama pro day. There are a bunch of CBs, LBs, Edge and OT for Alabama that should be first or day two picks. But are we really going to draft a CB or an OT in round 1 where those players could be slotted to go? WR is obvious priority and it would have been easy for Beane just to attend Texas as there are 2 WRs to see and less obvious to figure out which one he prefers. However, he chose not to go to Texas which might point to Bills not targeting either Worthy or Mitchell. It might be nothing but it could be something of a clue as Beane has stated that he likes to see players in person to size them up and see how they interact with coaches and teammates. It is possible that Alabama just had more talent overall to see but I would think Beane would want to be at the Texas pro day if he was targeting Worthy/Mitchell because it would have to be in round 1 or at the top of round 2 and that is a premium asset.
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20 minutes ago, Dr. Who said:
I watched a podcast on the WRs in the draft, and the folks doing the analysis mentioned that Burton has been to six or eight schools going back to his high school days, so he has never stayed put for any extended period of time. They did not know what it meant, but you'd have to do your due diligence on the fella. The red flags for character may be more than slapping a Tennessee fan on the field.
I agree that the Bills would have to do their homework on Burton to figure out whether he would be a character fit. From what I understand he only attended 2 colleges (Georgia and Alabama) but in high school I think he changed his mind on his commitment several times. And yes there is the fan issue and some of the on the field antics. Bills will have all background info on him and talk to coaches, trainers etc so I don’t want to speculate much but his on field talent is worth a deep dive. Maybe it is that he just has that edge and ultra competitive personality where he just needs to control it more. At least it does not appear like much in the way of criminal background so it just might be a situation where he needs to mature a bit and learn to control his emotions on the field a bit.
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If mock drafts and current adp is to be believed, i still believe Burton is a first round talent that can be had in the 2nd round. He passes the eye test and has the speed, burst, size, body control, hands you are looking for in a top end wr. He played in the SEC and regularly separated from top end dbs but played with a qb that was limited as a passer. If it were not for “character concerns”, Burton goes in the back end of round 1. The Bills will have to figure out if this guy is a head case or if the concerns have been over exaggerated. If they think he can fit in with the locker room, then I would jump at the chance of getting Burton in the second all day long.
Not giving away big time assets to move up in first would allow the Bills to maneuver the board in the second and third and maybe grab a second wr like Polk, Leggett, Persall etc to pair with Burton. There are other positional players like DT Fiske that I would love to see the Bills draft but if they traded up for a wr in the first we are looking at just having day 3 picks left this year.
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Here is Diggs stats for 4 years in Buffalo with Allen: Averaged 111 catches and 1343 yards per year.
Here is Diggs stats in 5 years with Vikings: Averaged 73 catches and 924 yards per year.
Allen will be fine as he has shown that he can elevate wrs like he did with Beasley and Brown. Diggs is a very good wr but he was the clear #1 here and fed the rock a ton. We will add wr from draft and spread ball around without having to worry about force feeding to one player. It was fun while it lasted but if Diggs wanted to move on, then so be it.-
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I don’t believe it is in a team’s best interest to trade up that far for a wr. It is generally not good business to do so, especially with the wr class having as much talent as there is.
I’d much prefer to stand pat at 28 or move up just a few spots to acquire Thomas jr, Mitchell or Legette. Each has the ability to play the outside x position.
I also like the idea of double dipping at the wr position and if we could get a Burton in the second (if he checks out mentally) then that would be great. I don’t see Burton lasting into the 3rd round much less the 4th unless there are major character flags (possible) and in that case the Bills would likely have removed him from their board.
not having a 3rd hurts and if Bills want Burton, Franklin, Baker, Polk etc they would most likely be forced to use the 2nd round pick or trade back a few spots and get them.
If they wait until the 4th, maybe you end up Malik Washington type wr. I really like him a lot but he is so short and will most likely fall down boards.
They already have a few veteran wrs and don’t see the need to acquire another unless someone like an Aiyuk becomes available at a reasonable price and we have struck out in the draft at that position.
A lot of targets will go to Cook, Kincaid, Samuel Shakir and Knox so a true x wr is the important position to add.-
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Not sure why anyone would complain about depth signing of a veteran who has been averaging double the amount of tackles that Tim Settle has been making for us.
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Would not be opposed to
a typical Beane trade up for for Brian Thomas and then find a way to land Malik Washington or Jermaine Burton in 2-3. Malik is on the smaller side but similar to Zay Flowers and poor man’s Tyreek. Thomas would give that size/speed outside wr we need.
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21 hours ago, The Firebaugh Kid said:
Just watching his highlight reel he looks like a complete and total loose cannon, but it’s like an axl rose situation… I’m intrigued. Haha
Someone else mentioned it but he does seem to have a bit of a Steve smith element to his play. He is clearly talented and I like his overall skill set and that showing up against SEC talent. But he might be a loose cannon and disruptive personality so the Bills will have to determine if he can fit into their culture or not. But from a pure talent perspective, he could be a DJ Moore Doug Baldwin type wr.
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1 hour ago, H2o said:
Figured we should probably take this to the WR thread.
I'm all for us using two early picks, and even a late round pick on WR this year. That group truly needs an overhaul and infusion of youth. There's a guy that's in that 5th Round range I'm keeping an eye on and see as a sleeper. Joshua Cephus of UTSA. The young man is 6'3" and about 185lbs. Good with contested catches, flashes some speed and RAC ability in the open field, and he's got a little twitch to his game that gets him separation on quick breaking routes. His route tree can use some developing and he has dropped a pass here or there, but he's also made some pretty spectacular plays on occasion and would be an asset in the red zone. Could be worth a shot.
We need to restock the wr position with some young, cheap talent. With the position being deep this year, I’m all for using 2 picks on wr in first 3-4 rounds and then taking a third in the later rounds.
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5 minutes ago, NastyNateSoldiers said:
Wouldn't mind him in the 3rd or 4th rd
I’m not sure he will make it that far but wr class is deep so who knows. If he checks out as someone that can fit in our locker room and culture, he would be a tremendous talent to add. I like him a lot because he appears ready to play and could make an immediate impact which would be worth a 2nd in my mind, especially since it would be a late second round pick.
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Sign me up for Jermaine Burton. He looks like a DJ Moore clone and that is good enough for me. Just not sure if he is a complete head case or not with all the teams he has bounced around on but he looks to be a plug and play wr that could make an immediate impact for us next year and you might be able to land him in the second round.
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8 minutes ago, Einstein said:
See, I wouldn't call McDermott "dreadful" in the playoffs. To me, assessing his coaching does not have to be binary. It doesn't have to be awesome or dreadful. It can be in the middle. It can be "good but not good enough", without being dreadful.
PS, I wouldn't want John Harbaugh or Tomlin as our coach.
Makes sense, I’m just not sure who we would get that is an improvement at HC. If you could get me McVay or Reid, I’m in but that is not happening. Not sure I would feel anybody else out there is an upgrade, maybe Matt Laflur or Shanahan.
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9 minutes ago, Einstein said:
I might be inclined to agree with you if the Chiefs had not been beaten in the playoffs 2 of the last 3 years (Bengals, Bucs). And it could become 3 of the last 4 if they lose to the Ravens on Sunday.
Point being: It’s not as if the Chiefs are just winning against everybody every year. They lose… just not to us.
This must be what it felt to be a Dolphins fan in the late 80’s and early 90’s.
They did have Shula who was a HoF coach and SB winner so I think he got some slack.
I don’t completely disagree but again the playoff sample sizes are minuscule and hard to make any definitive predictions.
McDermott has not been dreadful in the playoffs with a 5-6 record.
John Harbaugh is 12-9McVay 7-4
Tomlin 8-10
Parcells 11-8
Fans want to call McDermott Marty Schottenheimer but he was 5-13 in post season. I just think we have one of the 5-7 truly good HCs in this league. He is not the best but I think he is close enough. In the end it is a moot point as the Bills are not changing HC this year or likely anytime soon.
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24 minutes ago, LarryMadman said:
Is Allen cant beat Mahomes or is it McDermott cant beat Reid?
It's the latter as Josh has played 2 flawless games vs Mahomes and lost both because his coach ***** the bed as he always does!
Maybe, but it could also be that Kelce has been much better than Diggs in these games and Butker has been better than Bass. Chris Jones has been more impactful than Oliver. There are a lot of players on the field other than just the qbs.
Qb and HC are the most important areas of your team but they are not the only things that matter. Allen and McDermott are good enough to get it done but they need some other players to step up in big moments as well.
That standard is Mahomes/Reid. Good luck finding better than that combo right now and the fact that we are so close to them speaks to what a good duo we have.
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6 minutes ago, HomeskillitMoorman said:
How has McD been good in the KC games even outside 13 seconds? His defenses have gotten completely lit up in all 3 of those games. The 2 where we were relatively healthy they gave up 38 and 42 points.His job as a HC has been to prepare the entire team, not just the defense. In the 13 seconds game he was not the defensive coordinator but ultimately responsible for how we defended the field in the last 13 seconds. That was not great coaching but also excellent play by 3 Hall of Fame players in Mahomes, Kelce and Hill. I mean, they get paid on the other side as well and there was some generational talent there. Does not stopping a high powered offense make Reid or Spags a bad coach, because they could not stop us either in that game.
in this last game, I struggle to really pick anything that McDermott did wrong. His defense was decimated by injuries and the Chiefs offense played its best ball. There players caught the ball out players dropped too many. That was probably the difference in the game right there. That is more a player issue rather than a coaching concern. We literally had a mlb who had basically retired come in off the street running the defense and many other injuries and hobbling players. That said it was a 3 point game and we missed a fg to tie it. The margins in this games are slim as it has been in the regular season games between us.
Rd 2, Pick 33: WR Keon Coleman, Florida State
in The Stadium Wall
Posted
I agree with the qb accuracy playing a role but watching all his targets there were many clear and easy drops as well as contested catches that he had position to come down with the ball and did not. He also made some insane catches so there seems to be a little boom bust to his hands. I was not a fan of the pick, but Coleman does have some freak athletic traits and some elusiveness for a player his size so I hope Brady can play to his strengths and Coleman can continue to develop as a route runner and his catching ability. He is young and if he is willing to put in the work it is possible he continues to get better.