PBLESS
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On 4/30/2018 at 7:33 AM, Kirby Jackson said:
I frequent this board to discuss the Bills. I applaud what I like and question what I don’t. That doesn’t mean that I am right or wrong. It is just my opinion. I’m not going to blindly support something that I don’t agree with. I’m also not going to dump on something because of previous mistakes. I’m not going to wait for something to be good or bad to say, “I told you so” or “these guys are idiots.” At the same time I always support the Bills and hope for the best.
In terms of Allen he wasn’t my first choice. I wanted Rosen. I had no issue with the price paid. It wasn’t an overpay and they got their guy. I will support him and hope that they are right.
Even though I viewed the top 4 QBs as pretty even, and Allen was not necessarily my personal choice, I think he has as good a chance to be successful NFL qb as any of the others. I did notice that the NFL GMs evidently believed that Rosen was the least of the four, as he was the last picked. There were plenty of qb needy teams who could have traded up if they believed in him and they did not----only time will tell. I would suggest patience.
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Ya know-----------------it's hard to believe how little the guys who spend the whole year doing all this scouting know about these players!
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This is a hard group to please. Let's say that between the few who wanted to keep TT and the group who would like a new qb but did not want to waste draft capital trading up, you have , for the sake of argument, 25-30% of the fan base. That leaves 70-75% who wanted to trade some or all of our draft picks to get THEIR choice [ not necessarily 1BD choice] of the top 4 rated gb's, then there's the relatively the low % who wanted Jackson or Rudolph. Let's say this 70-75% group was roughly evenly divided between the top four. Out of 100 typical fans that would look like this:
25% wanted to keepTT or did NOT want to trade up
3% draft either Jackson or Rudolph
18% Rosen
18% Allen
18% Mayfield
18% Darnold
you could adjust those percentages any way you want, but no matter how you cut it Beane had AT BEST a chance to please about 25% of the fans. I still like HIS chances of getting it right working with a large group of professional scouts and coaches over "the pizza delivery guy"
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Generally these picks seem OK. Since I believe that ANY ONE of the top 10 QBs have as good of a chance to be THE ONE as any of the others, I think we could get a good one at 12 or 22 but our biggest need at this point [ beside QB ] is MLB. I would say to decide in the first round who will be your best shot at QB and MLB. Then worry about the rest in subsequent rounds.
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After looking at the various articles showing the history of QBs chosen in the early rounds [such as this https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2017/nfl-draft-round-round-qb-study-1994-2016] I'm more convinced than ever that it's a crap shoot, and trading a bunch of high picks to get an unknown is a risky idea. I think that Lauletta or even Rudolph make as good a gamble as any of the other more highly ranked QBs, and we don't have to give up any picks to get either one. To me, the only way of being relatively certain that you're getting a sure fire, star QB is to keep your cap spending down by having a lot of rookie contracts on your roster and than signing a proven NFL QB when he becomes a free agent. next year the Bills will have 100 million in cap space. By then they will also know if they already have a talented QB, after assessing whichever rookie they select plus AJ or Nathan. I'm not a GM or HC, just an original Bills season ticket holder whose job took him to Florida in 1972. But I know enough to realize they have too many holes to fill to give away valuable picks for an unknown college kid because a bunch of guys who earn a living doing mock drafts, think he's God's gift to the NFL.
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36 minutes ago, Logic said:
Luckily, though...here comes NewDayBills, to improve the quality of the dialogue on this subject by calling all of those with whom he disagrees 'hillbilly inbreds' and adding an eye-rolling emoji for good measure.Are hillbilly in-breds anything like "basket of deplorables?"
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1 hour ago, stony said:
Welcome Skins.
I say, spend the money.
Stony, you pretty well echo my sentiments. Everyone wants a rookie QB to ride in on a white horse and take us to the promised land-----so do I! Even if we land one of the top 4, NO ONE knows if he'll be a great NFL qb, and if we give up most of our bank of picks to get him, that means he'll have to work with basically the players we have under contract right now. I don't think that'll give the kid much of a chance. If we decide to stay at 12, as has been said----we could well end up with a half dozen starters. So maybe between McCarron, Peterman [ who are to a large extent, untested] and whomever might fall to us at 12 or later Jackson, Rudolph [either of whom might be highly regarded by Beane], or even Lauletta] we end up with a very servicable QB. If all else fails, we'll have a bunch of good players, who don't cost much for 4 years and 100 Million in cap space. Then in 2019 Bridgewater [who will have been tested] and Matt Ryan are free agents and the following year it's Wilson, Newton, Keenum, Winston and Mariota. I know who wants to wait 2 more years-----but do you really xpect to win the super bowl THIS year with one of the BIG 4?
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1 hour ago, RochesterRob said:
2018 - 2 1st's
2019 - 1 1st
2020 - 1 1st
That is what you are talking and no thanks to that. That is assuming they don't discount this year's pick at 22 and ask us for more to sweeten it.
There has been plenty of these threads and you can dress them differently but the tone is pretty much the same. People want to believe that there is a magical process to find a player and no doubt the pro's have a few secrets in that regard but it should be said there is no magic that is going to help us. Which is to say such magic does not exist. If the Bills move up and grab a guy then I will support it although I will not be happy about using multiple picks. Something tells me that there is no one QB prospect that stands above the others.
I'm in total agreement. While i'm aware that everyone posting on this board is an experienced watcher, scout, excoach, whatever, I can't help believing that between the Bills group of scouts, the GM, asst. coaches, head coach and alliances with other coaches, I HAVE to believe they have a better chance of making the correct choice than we on this forum.
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2 hours ago, 26CornerBlitz said:
I'd take the red nosed reindeer at 12 before Mason.
All five or six of those quarterbacks have nothing but failure written all over them -----except which ever one I happen to favor, and HE can't miss. If I wasn't so sold on my ability to scout college football players, I might consider that pro scouts have better knowledge, however, I AM certain that I have it correct, and will let everyone know when I decide.
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I say stay where we are at 12, hope it lands us a good qb prospect. If not we have 6 high picks to make the team a lot better than last year and looking forward to 100 million in cap space next year. The new regime can't undue the mistakes of several previous FOs in one year.
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24 minutes ago, Rockinon said:
I'm sure the Jets did put a monkey wrench in their plans, but that doesn't mean that the Jets made the right decision. They payed a pretty stiff price to get that spot. People assume that QB is the end all, be all in this draft process, but there is a limit to what is an acceptable price to pay. All of the maneuvering to move higher in the draft is ok so long as you don't mortgage away too much to get there. You still have to field a team. Having a QB is great but if you cannot protect him or at the very least field a defense that can give that QB plenty of opportunities, you are making a huge mistake. You still need a team around that QB to put you in a position to win.
I want that franchise, pocket passer as much as anyone, but I do not want to destroy the team to get that passer. Folks need to step back and look at the big picture, but what we are mostly seeing is this stupid mentality that we need a fanchise QB at all costs.
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In my mind an overlooked consideration is that NO ONE really has any idea which, IF ANY of the so called big 4 or 5 or even 6 QBs that everyone wants to move up for, will be a Tom Brady or an EJ Manuel. In fact AJ McCarron might be another Keenum, Peterman had ONE tough game, [ and quite a bit that went wrong was not even because of NP]. My point is that with QBs no one really knows for a year or two if a team did the right thing by giving away valuable draft capital to get an unknown. Yes, it is true that highly drafted CBs, WRs, and LBs can also fail, but at least a team doesn't have to sell the farm to get them. If you have a team that needs ONLY a QB to get to the big dance, do what you must to get one. The Bills have MANY needs, a very successful draft this year coupled with 100 million in cap space in 2019 would allow us to get a top tier [not necessarily HOF] proven QB to go with the newly enhanced roster.
I'm not say'n,---- I'm just say'n.
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1 hour ago, Alphadawg7 said:
Yup!
He is the BEST choice for a Bridge QB. He has 1 year left on his deal, so he clears the way next year no matter what for the rookie to take over (if he had not already). Signing a quality temp vet here is going to take at least a 2 year deal, if not more, at a higher cost than TT. So that means once the Rookie takes over this year or beginning of next, we will have a high priced backup vet on the bench chewing up cap space. I mean some people think the better vets, who will have plenty of suitors, are just gonna do the Bills a favor and come to this bad weather team and play 1 year, or maybe part or not at all if the rookie comes on fast. The guys people want are guys who can start in this league.
Better to have someone like TT, who will be cheaper this year too, come off the books in 2019 and go out sign a cheap backup contract at that point and have the extra cap space. moving forward.
Not to mention, he knows the team and players, is the hardest working guy on the team, respected in the locker room as a player and leader, has a winning record for Bills despite 2 HC's and 3 OC's, and just led the Bills to the playoffs for first time in 17 years.
I agree with your post and would emphasize a couple of points: Tyrod is VERY well respected by the team and is an acknowledged leader. We ARE going to lose Eric Wood and may well lose ZO and KYLE. I don't think we want to lose most of this teams leaders who seemed very important to our locker room last year. I would hate for us to trade away are high picks that we need to build our lineup with players who won't break the bank [ Salary cap] for the next 4 years. While Tyrod isn't going to take us to a Super Bowl, I believe if our QBs were surrounded by a better crop of players and an OC who would build an offense around our strengths, and using the draft and free agency to build a defense that doesn't give up a ton of points, then we could have time to develope whatever rookie QB that falls to us at 21 or Peterman. [ who I STILL have confidence in]. I'll always wonder what would have happened in the famous 5 interception game, if Demarco had caught that perfectly thrown pass and we'd gone in to score instead of handing it to an LA linebacker for a TD. At least 2 other ints were caused by a complete breakdown of pass protection.
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15 hours ago, KingRex said:
It makes far more sense to this football fan for the Bills to follow the Pitts model they used to build a team and then go after a QB (who turned out to be Big Ben to win an SB. Look, we have one of the oldest rosters in the NFL and now having to find a stud center, it seems even more obvious to use the 2- 1st rounders and 2 nd rounders to rebuild this TEAM rather than invest all resources to put a formula 1 engine in our VW bug team.
Trading up for the next Andrew Luck (or worse the next Ryan Leaf) would be a disaster for this team.
I also feel that we need to fill all those empty holes while we have the draft choices to do it. If we could field a well coached team with a strong defense and an offense tht can run the ball we don't need to give up a bunch of picks for a qb who could easily turn out to be another Losman or Manuel. Another consideration is that a bunch of rookie contracts for players filling those empty holes will give us the cap space to grab a proven free agent gb a yr down the road.
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1 hour ago, KingRex said:
or so dubs ESPN PTI in their assessment of McDermott's rookie year as an HC!
I have to admit, but these guys are right in their judgment. Starting a 5th round rookie QB for a team in playoff convention really does rank among one of the stupidest coaching decisions in NFL history (it was not only a bad move in terms of short-term goals of giving your team the best chance to compete this year, but it was also an unprecedented move in terms of sensible young player development).
However, all is forgiven by the team making the playoffs!
I'm just happy the players and Tyrod kept their eye on the prize and focused on simply winning ball games when the "process" apparently called for abandoning the QB that brung you where you are and for pursuing a player development strategy which expected a league consensus 5th round drafted rookie to lead his team to glory. In a game where self-confidence is key, I simply hope McDermoot has not ruined the seemingly talented NP by throwing him to the sharks.
Nevertheless the real deal here is despite this McD/and assume Beane screw-up just win baby.
Nobody's perfect and at least for a week we are cruising!
I thought he was justified in starting NP because OBD needs to know if they had their eventual starter on the roster before they go ahead and spend 2-3 of their valuable early picks to get a top rated QB. Also consider the fact that the Bills made the playoffs with a new head coach and both new cordinators. They came up with some rookie gems in #58, #27 and #73, they have assembled an outstanding defensive backfield, now throw in free agents #10 and #13----I believe they might be better off using all those picks for non- QBs to fill in at LB, OL and DL. Granted Tyrod is not a top 10 QB, but with a better surrounding cast, [and we should certainly have one with all those high picks] use TT's unique skill set for another year to improve on 9-7. I also think part of Peterman's problem in that game was not his fault, #42 virtually handing LA a touchdown on the first drive, and some very weak pass protection. With another year of grooming he may still be a good NFL qb.
How would we feel if OBD gave up 3 picks to get one of those coveted qbs only to find he's another E.J. or R. Leaf or tears up his knee early---------now we don't have the OL or DL guys we needed and no qb either.
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My feeling all along has been to move down and get an extra couple of 2 or 3's. My logic [no doubt flawed] is that at WR I think we have a number of potentially VERY good players. The problem up to now IMO, has been a QB with the talent and rep familiarity to match up with those guys. I feel we have that same type of "potential" at TE. So I would prefer not to spend a real early pick for those positions. I see our greatest need at ROT and LG then strong side LB and a full sized pass rush DE. While we are very strong at RB at the moment, we should probably begin to address this issue given contract expiration and age considerations. I believe that this draft is deep enough at most of those positions [especially OL and RB] that we can satisfy needs with a lower first round pick and extra 2 and 3s.
In reality, if the Bills came away from this draft with a couple of very good additions to the OL, and if the 2 Dougs are right about EJ, they will be a playoff team.
If I'm allowed an aside----- although a season ticket holder since the days of Buster Ramsey and until I moved to Florida, I'm pretty new to this board------can someone tell me why, when am typing these posts, about every 3rd or fourth character that I type does not take. I do lot of computer typing, and it does not happen anywhere else.
Cn anyne tell me what I'm doig wrong------see wht I mean.
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The Bills will have many good sized WRs in camp
Hogan 6-1 220
Easley 6-2 217
Roberson 6-4 220
Ramses 6-6 224
Elliott 6-3 205
Stevie 6-2 205
Summers 6-5 215 Chris not Frank
It seems like at least a couple of these guys should pan out well ------ plus a guy I had high hope for last year
Kaufman 6-5 215
GOOO BILLS
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Unless some non-qb and very special such as Mack were available at 9, I think we should go with which ever of the 3 OT's are available. Depending on how it plays out, my favorite scenario would find 1 or 2 surprises in the first eight that encouraged a team drafting at 11-12-13 to offer their #2 pick for our 9 and we still get one of the 3 OT's ----probably Lewan. Then with the 2 picks in the 2nd round go DE --TE or LB . We need a guard in Rd 4 or 5.
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How about Easely----6'2" 217 lbs he's fast, obviously tackles well, and apparently gets no respect from Bills as a WR.
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A Bills fan called in to the NFL station on Sirius radio and asked whoever was there, I think Brad Hopkins, what he thought the Bills should do in the draft, given who they got in free agency. I thought the answer was a little bazaar. He said to get one of the 3 top OTs, move Cordy Glen to LG and try to draft another OT in a later round to compete for RT. I know many have suggested moving Cordy to guard in the past. My opinion is that good OTs are too hard to come by and that Glen should remain at OT and Bills should get one of the 3 top OTs in rd 1 and another OG prospect in rd 4or5. In light of the fact that Spikes has only a one yr contract, and that Moats will likely sign elsewhere linebacker prospects are also essential.
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We still need a very good OT to pair with Cordy. I still think this should be our first priority. It's very possible we could trade down a few spaces and find an OT plus pickup another 2nd round pick.
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Back in the day, I remember thinking that Harris could throw the ball farther and harder than anyone I had ever seen.
Favorite Bills RB
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
As an original Bills season ticket holder, I had to go with Cookie. I absolutely love Thurman, Shady, OJ [as a player], Joe Cribbs and Fred. Cookie was from another planet. Third and 4----they knew he was coming, but nothing could be done, he could not be stopped, it was this that gave birth to the iconic "LOOKIE LOOKIE HERE COMES COOKIE" saying. Once into the open field, a defensive back was looking at the end of his career if Cookie was coming at him. At 6' 3' and 245 lbs, Gilchrist LOOKED for collisions. I forget his name, but there was a Patriot DB who , on 2 separate occassions, swallowed his tongue after colliding with this guy. At a booster club meeting, attended by not only a bunch of Bills but a half dozen players for the Cleveland Browns [they were in town for a charity basketball game against the Bills] I was talking to some of the Browns about Cookie, They knew him because immediately after high school when he was 17 yrs old he tried out for the Browns at fullback when they still had Jimmy Brown. They liked him and followed his career in Canada [where he played MLB and fullback], and then with the Bills. One of them a guard named John Wooten, told me that he thought Gilchrist was just as strong and fast as Brown and was a far better blocker. From what I understand the Browns came under some fire from the league for trying to hire a player under 18. He was a living legend among the guys he played with. I'm not sure he was completely wired right because he did some REALLY bizarre stuff. I don't recall why----but for a time, he kicked off and also kicked FGs. He would kick off, then run down field with his arms out wide and made a sound like an airplane as he blasted one opponent after the other. He was also a bit of a problem OFF the field. He had a number of confrontations with the Buffalo PD, it seemed he did not care to be told to leave places that he chose to be at. He ended up paying a severe price for his ferocious style of play. It seems like it was about 5-6 yrs ago that I came across an address for Cookie and emailed him, and asked how he was doing. It turns out he was doing very poorly and had severe medical problems that he was unable to afford treatment for. He died not long after and his family donated his brain to whatever entity was accumalating info on brain injuries common to football players. I read that his brain had suffered catastrophic damage, that I'm sure was a result of his violent style of play.
I won't go into it here, but if you're interested, look up the story about going to an all-star game in New Orleans and finding out that the black players were told they couldn't stay at the same hotel as the white players. Like I said before---- he didn't like being told he had to leave some place he chose to be at----it made an interesting story if you care to look it up.