Veneno
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Posts posted by Veneno
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3 hours ago, Shaw66 said:
I don't think many would argue with what you say. However, the real point of the original post is that there is a continuing and popular narrative about Allen since before the draft, and that is that Allen is not an accurate thrower. Putting aside how you might define accuracy and what you might think is the best evidence of accuracy, the fact is that what is said about regularly about Allen and not said about the other rookies is that Allen must work on his accuracy.
What the OP's analysis shows (doesn't exactly prove, since we can argue about methodology, what's important, etc.) is that a very good argument can be made that Allen is not particularly inaccurate when compared to the other rookies. He wasn't seeking to prove that Allen is very accurate or even just accurate enough. What he has shown, pretty effectively, I think, is that if people think Allen is inaccurate, then those people should be saying the same thing about each of the other rookies. But no one is complaining about the accuracy of the other rookie QBs.
The point is that either (1) all of the rookies have an accuracy problem and all of their coaches and fans should be concerned or (2) Allen's accuracy problem is largely a myth, generated by the talking heads running up to the draft and, as often happens, continues despite actual performance. People look at the completion percentage and conclude that what they heard about Allen's accuracy must be true.
I don't think Allen has an accuracy problem. I didn't see a guy regularly missing receivers, and I didn't see a guy regularly hurting the receiver's chances to make runs after the catch. I certainly didn't see receivers turning inaccurate throws into receptions with spectacular catches. I saw a guy who makes an occasional bad throw and a guy who could improve his precision on some throws, but not a guy who has a problem that should keep him from succeeding in the NFL.
And I think the data set forth in the OP kind of confirms that. Nobody's howling "accuracy" about any of the other rookies, and Allen did about the same things those guys did.
HHAHAHAHAHA
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6 hours ago, Sammy Watkins' Rib said:
To hell with accuracy. If Allen can continue to take what the defense gives him with his legs he won't ever need to be a 60%+ completion guy. We can win with him at 58-59% completion. With that said, I don't think it is unreasonable to think he wont get to 60-62% if we dial back the long pass attempts a bit and he just progresses a little as he should with more experience.
And how about this stat:
Allen 11 Games Started 2 4QC's 3 GWD's 7.1 ypr
Darnold 13 Games Started 1 4QC 1GWD 3.1ypr
One's a play maker and makes things happen. The other not as much. Darnold's actually not that bad. I think his one 4th QC was against us unfortunately and he did make a great play with his legs keeping the play alive. He does have some of that ability. But I don't think he will ever be on Allen's play making level. He won't put pressure on a defense like Allen will.
This dude here is probably the biggest homer I seen on the internet. Darnolds had more TD than INT and almost hit 60% as a rookie. Allen barely hit the 50% throwing more INT than TD. Allen is great RB and a terrible passer and if you dont see it, you are a homer. Darnolds pocket awareness and progression is light and day compare to Allen. Look up Parcells's famous phrase "you are what your record say you are" and stop making excuse.
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6 hours ago, billspro said:
These analysts are making fools of themselves because they won’t admit they are wrong. I was not a fan of Allen predraft, but he played very well in the senior bowl and that made me question my e v a l. If they are not questioning their e v a l by now they will never get rid of their bias. Allen played better than Rosen and equal to Darnold as a rookie.
Jackson is a different case. I think he will be good as long as his athletic ability is around. He could be RG3 or Kap, or he could be Vick. That is hard to predict.
LOL. Now Allen was equal to Darnold and better than Rosen. If you are basing your opinion as a RB I will agree with you but if you are talking in term of passer QB everybody not a homer will laugh at you, in your face. Had you seen Darnold plays? His pocket awareness and progression are above rookie level. JA do not have a good pocket awareness, at the moment can't read defense well that is why he run first rather than going thru his progression. At the beginning of the season, I expected his completion to be hovering around 50%. JA is a raw talent and need to get it together next year otherwise he will be audition for RB, WR or TE pretty soon.
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1 hour ago, freddyjj said:
Josh Rosen 163 YPG, .85 TD PG, 1.08 INT PG. No Rushing TDs.
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int% Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV 2018 21 ARI QB 3 14 13 3-10-0 217 393 55.2 2278 11 2.8 14 3.6 75 5.8 4.8 10.5 162.7 66.7 26.6 45 320 4.47 3.53 10.3 1 2 Josh Allen 173 YPG, .91 TD PG, 1.09 INT PG and add 8 Rushing TDs or another .8 TD PG
Year Age Tm Pos No. G GS QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD TD% Int Int%
▲Lng Y/A AY/A Y/C Y/G Rate QBR Sk Yds NY/A ANY/A Sk% 4QC GWD AV 2018 22 BUF QB 17 12 11 5-6-0 169 320 52.8 2074 10 3.1 12 3.8 75 6.5 5.4 12.3 172.8 67.9 52.3 28 213 5.35 4.37 8.0 2 3 So I am calling BS here. The above PASSING STATS shows Josh is better in YPG, TD%, YARDS/ATTEMPT, YARDS/COMPLETION, SACK RATE, 4TH QTR COMEBACKS AND GAME WINNING DRIVES. Rosen is only slightly better in Completion Rate and INT%. No way he is the better passer to this point of their careers.
Both QBs struggled but it should be obvious that Josh is better overall QB as generates 1.7 TD per game including Rushing. His Goal Line sneaks and Red zone runs lead to TDs and QB sneaks keep drives alive. That is a plus in NFL. QBR is double that of Rosen's even if Passer rating seems similar.
As for Rosen, I liked him as well but think we drafted the right Josh.
Rosen and JA both had more INT than TD so please don't try to go cute putting outside stats. But you never show JA pathetic completion rate and he played in the AFC East hardly play any defense, in fact the Bills is the only team that play real defense. A guy that was taken from the street Matt Barkley put 40 points on the Jets completing 60% of his passes throwing a couple of TD with zero INT.
AZ OL is college level in a division that play nfl defense, see Rams, Seattle, 49niners. Still Rosen with a weak OL and no weapon was able to complete 55% of his passes. So yeah Rosen at this point better passer QB than JA.
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On 1/2/2019 at 8:46 AM, matter2003 said:
For me, I didnt want him. I believed all the hype with his terrible completion percentage, that he wasn't ready, etc etc...
I am a pretty big fan after watching his first year play out I have to admit. Accuracy is an issue but not as much as I think most people believe. Yes he makes some bad throws, but throwing the ball away, deeper throws than normal and dropped passes are a much bigger factor in his incompletions than his inaccuracy. in fact I was surprised to see his accuracy be so much better than i imagined...I was envisioning balls all over the place and terrible ball placement but I didnt see a lot of that. Were there some throws he would like back? Yeah sure there were...did he appear to be a 51.4% completion QB based on the accuracy of his throws? No way...
His athleticism is off the charts, dude is crazy fast for his size and is explosive when running. He hits top speed quickly and can really move...you can see this by how many times a defender thinks they have him and takes a bad angle only to have Allen blow by the guy without him even touching him.
I think shoring up the protection, and giving Allen some more weapons to work with will do a lot towards helping him improve his completion percentage.
Do i think he will ever be a 65% completion QB? No. He will probably be similar to Cam Newton hovering around upper 50s to low 60s. I think we can still win with that based on how often he throws deeper passes and improving the talent around him.
Needless to say I'm excited to see how things work out as he gets a full off season and all the work in minicamps and training camps as the undisputed #1 QB with continued help from Anderson and Barkley who he credits for a lot of his development in little nuances and understanding the game better.
So has your opinion changed on Josh Allen from the draft to now?
No. He is where he suppose to be. He was great athlete in college, mediocre passer in a mediocre division. I expected him to finish the season at around 50% completion and more INT than TD thrown. I also expected him to be an extra RB since he can't read defense well.
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1 hour ago, BillsFan1988 said:
I'll be honest i wasn't a Allen guy when we drafted him. Matter of fact i hated the pk and thought he would be a complete bust. I kept thinking about the Mahomes trade that seemed to be a disaster for us.
Wow have things changed . I will admit now i am a believer in Allen future and the future of this franchise. Its gonna be a really exciting offseason. My question is at some point in his career can Allen achieve this crazy Lebron James esqe numbers. What we have seen from Allen so far is not even scratch in the surface of what he can develop into. I realize he still has many flaws in his game that he needs to work on and defenses will adjust to what he does best. But if he hits his peak upside i think this type of season is very possible for him to achieve and if he does he would be the first NFL QB to ever do it. 250yds passing a gm and 62yds rushing will do it. The question is can he.
This is a joke? The better questing should be since as a starter in college in a mediocre division playing against scrub defense never completed more than 56% of his passes, can JA complete 55% of his passes in the next season? This season he was at 52%. SO FAR he is better suit to be a RB or WR just like ex- Bills former speedy running QB like Terrelle Pryor. Rosen so far had proven to be a better passer QB.
New England's Pass Defense - Not an excuse for Josh, but an explanation
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted · Edited by Veneno
Darnolds is going to be great according to your stat since he completed 70% of this throw and had 1TD and zero INT even though he was harassed by the Bills' defense the entire game, many times an edge rusher came unblocked and he was able to get rid of the ball and not make any mistakes.