Bills(70)
-
Posts
206 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Content Type
Gallery
Profiles
Forums
Events
Posts posted by Bills(70)
-
-
George Steinbrenner payed for Yankee Stadium. The costs incurred by the public authorities went for infrastructure costs surrounding the stadium, not for the stadium per se. There is no doubt that in such complex financing projects the taxpayers are directly and indirectly footing a sizeable amount of the project costs, a large portion going for bond financing. What is glaringly different in the examples you cite (Yankee Stadium and Citi-field stadium) to our situation in western NY is that the owners of the respective teams made sizeable contribution to the projects.
You need to observe what is going on in Minnesota. What is very evident is that the owner of the Vikings is willing in a very substantial way contribute to the stadium project. That is far different from the way the stadium issue is unfolding in western NY.
How much do you expect Ralph Wilson to contribute to to the stadium upgrades that he is demanding? Is the 93 yr old owner going to guarantee that the team will remain in western NY after he passes and the stadium bond costs are still ongoing? If the answer is no to each question then the owner should be told to shove it.
Very correct JohnC.
That is why I stated my opinion on the domed stadium for this region. 200 million dollars in facility upgrades at Rich Stadium does nothing in the way of offering any significant use for the stadium outside of housing an NFL franchise, that may, or may not stick around.
Building a domed stadium in downtown however, offers the advantage of year round use of a facility that can do more than just house an NFL franchise. Yes the cost is more, substantially more, but in the interest of keeping a facility at least viable to pay off the bond issuance, you'll need multiple uses. It's just sound financial practice as opposed to throwing 200 million at a facility that may, in the future, sit dormant for many years.
Risk analysis all day long.
-
Actually, downstate NY supports WNY/upstate NY, and it's not even close. WNY is essentially a charity case for greater NYC.
http://www.rockinst.org/pdf/nys_government/2011-12-Giving_and_Getting.pdf
http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2011/12/upstate_ny_grabs_more_than_it.html
Let's start with the Rockefeller Institute Report you referrence here.
It is not, in point of fact, an actual factual detailed spending analysis in so far as state funding, it is a what if scenario generator. I am very familiar with it and do not agree with it at all given several factors. But in the interest of summarizing, it's in the report itself.
"The study uses the “state-funds” basis of revenues and expenditures. Thus it includes, for example, payments that are funded from the state’s own taxes, fees, public university tuition, hospital
and other charges, but not those supported by federal aid. We exclude proceeds from state bond issuances, given the difficulty of allocating such revenues by region. To offset that exclusion (conceptually if not dollar-for-dollar), we also omit disbursements for debt service. Capital expenditures funded through tax and other
state-funds revenues are included. The basic data for analysis are
from the Comptroller’s Annual Report to the Legislature on State
Funds Cash Basis of Accounting, for the fiscal year ended March 31
2010.1
Revenue and expenditure categories in this report follow
those in the cash report. Additional data sources include the state
Department of Taxation and Finance, the Division of the Budget,
and other agencies."
For your information, bond issuance, specifically at the state level, is actually very significant when taken in the context of economic development and state infrastructure expansion/maintenance.
By definition of the geography of the greater NYC area as opposed to the next 3 largest NYS cities combined, NYC receives the lions share of such, and they are also "taxpayer" monies.
And there are literally hundreds of other issues left out of the loop in this report for the state level.
And finally, the report itself clearly states the following:
"We do not attempt to determine whether regions pay or receive their “fair share.” We do, however, present relevant
demographic data for each region so that our factual findings on
the geographic distribution of payments may be considered in a
useful context."
Basing the information on population demographics is problematic to say the least. And I give this prime example.
By 1900, Buffalo was the 8th largest city in the United States, and went on to become a major railroad hub, and the largest grain-milling center in the country.
One could argue that technology advances, taxation rates and free trade agreements have primarily offset WNY's population numbers to the extent they are now, the period from 1960 to current day, also known as "The Great Exodus from Buffalo".
But let's not be naive enough not to realize that downstate political power played just an overwhelming enormous part in this tragedy based largely on the need of down state to mitigate the power of WNY in state government to garner favorable returns at the state level in revenue. To discount such is akin to wearing blinders in a glass retailer as you run the aisles.
As for giving more than taking, Upstate and Western New York really don't have a choice in the matter in the modern era as NYC based power politicians such as Sheldon Silver have put such business killing policies in place and mandates to the county/municipal governments that the balance ostensibly was shifted in the late 80's/early 90's as the Exodus was repeatedly ignored at the state level by those same NYC interests and politicians.
I.E. They looked out for their own asses downstate for decades, yes, decades, while these areas of manufacturing hubs and bastions of blue collar populations were plundered and purged by aforementioned policies and mandates.
So, it's more than fair to state that downstate get's the lion's share of the state funding, when bond issuance's, tax revenue from all sources and Federal Funds (which were not included in these reports remember) which are stipend to Albany are taken into consideration.
-
It's ok to be overly optimistic given the rebuild that is under way at 2 Bills Drive, but, and I must caution, it's just that.....a rebuild.
Fans should be very excited, but with measured expectations for this coming season. It will be interesting to see how the new members on D gel and find chemistry together.
I'm also very happy to see the players getting into it. Let's just hope the injury bug doesn't bite hard on the offensive side of the ball and the defensive backs.
I am looking forward to this season for sure, but I'm going to be really excited for the following season, when more components are added. I truly believe we'll be in contention then.
-
I wonder how much of every tax payers doller from western NY stays in Western NY. Just wondering. If someone has that information please post.
And as another poster pointed out, the western NY population has many times been asked to help fund projects for eastern NY.
I live in Atl so not really my place to stir it up. But have for a long time heard how western NY does not see the majority of it's tax dollars, insteand it goes down to 'the city'.
While it is true that a majority of the percentage of all state taxes garnered in WNY do end up down state, it was not my intent to say that all of downstate would be opposed to it, but with projects being looked at in such a large population corridor, they almost always take precedent over WNY.
As for the actual numbers, I haven't looked it up this year, but I do know in the past decade the number is roughly 66% of state funds to the NYC corridor and the remainder of the state divides what was left over.
-
Roanoke, VA for 4 months out of the year.
Englewood, FL for 4 months out of the year.
Town of Tonawanda, NY for 4 months out of the year.
But born and raised in NT.
-
i cannot fathom how anyone in buffalo could complain, even if it means the taxpayers have to pony up. the stadium is fine, needs upgrades,and is more than adequate for the bills. totally glad we are not in minny's situation. now, its up to the politcos to deliver the funds and try to temper all the loudmouths who will complain about "their tax dollars"..
Well, this is about as short sighted a view as they come.
Let's see, where to begin? Ah yes, how about the "even if it means the taxpayers have to pony up" comment.
First of all, it's a great deal of "State" funds, not local, that are in contribution on the Minny deal.
I think I'll go out on a limb here and say most of the residence of eastern New York State don't give a dam about whether or not the Buffalo Bills remain here, given they are predominantly fans of other teams, in-particular New York City teams.
Then there is the "the stadium is fine, needs upgrades, and is more than adequate for the Bills" comment.
Let's just say for arguments sake that the state and local government's pony up, as you put it, the necessary funding to achieve those upgrades. What benefit other than keeping an NFL franchise in Western New York does the stadium actually achieve on any type of a relevant scale? Whether it be economic or otherwise.
I would have to believe a domed stadium downtown, at roughly 5.1 times the cost of the current upgrades necessary achieves multiple goals in multiple categories that extend far and reaching beyond what Rich Stadium ever did, is currently or will ever achieve.
Politicos delivering money (and my personal favorite), loudmouths who will complain about their "tax dollars".
Jeez Mr. Hitler, we tax payers would "never dream" of questioning your Authoritative view of our wallets. After all, we enjoy working ourselves to the bone and then giving "YOUR ILK" the money to spend as "YOU SEE FIT".
Just an overall bad post with no thought what so ever to any other individual or groups of individuals points of view on the subject.
-
rueben randle just keeps slipping......would be nice to make a move, but doesn't seem to be bills style
There is no reason to move up. Randle isn't worth giving up the depth picks for.
People need to realize the rebuild will still be going into next years draft as well. We don't need to nor are we going to grab every need this draft with stud players.
There may be a surprise in the later round picks, who knows. Brady was a late rounder.
I understand the feeling to compete at an elite level now, I, along with many, many other fans lived through the late 70's and entire 80's era, so the last 10 to 12 years are nothing new to us aged fans.
Have patience, it appears to be a solid build out by Nix and company.
-
Sure he'll be a pick for the future. As in a couple monthes from now.
Many of my peers from USC would tell you otherwise, but, I'll digress and see how the youngster goes after a starting position.
-
The Gilmour pick is a pick for the future for sure. Although he may get some starting time this season.
Glenn however, was a steal in this position. Very flexible player position wise on the OL.
My only concern is his ability to adjust to the increased speed of the game at the pro level combined with his ability to adjust in Line traffic for blocking assignments. Appears to be a solid 1 v 1 defender, but is that weight going to be an issue with the increased speed of the game, only time will tell.
-
Typical knee-jerk, uninformed fan reaction. Get a clue.
Right, because the Bills have shown us time and again in the past 15 years of drafting that a reaction like this is hardly warranted
-
You know, I heard this on the radio and was going to post and thought to myself I dont want to be flamed for starting a new thread for that. I see it happen all too often to me and other posters.
Had the same thought the other day when Buffalo common council was going to discusss a downtown stadium.
Well, here we are with threads on both subjects.
Rant on
He's just one of 30 guys we're allowed to bring in and we're not going to draft all 30 of them so dont read anything into it and teh downtown stadium idea is really just pie in th esky guys wasting awaty their Monday afternoon I mean really does Buffalo have the 900 mil to build a new stadium at the same time the state (hopefully) is going to hand over 100 mil to tidy up the Ralph?
Now ask yourself did this need it own thread?
Rant off
Cheers
Actually, you asked, and yes, Buffalo does have the roughly 1 to 1.5 billion needed to build a stadium, it's called a bond issuance.
What many fail to understand is that although Buffalo never had the growth boom in the past 20 years, it's remained fairly stable, proving to be one of the more attractive areas for bond issuance given it's ability to weather the recession storm due it's stability.
That is not to say the lack of growth during the boom was a good thing, it is merely to say that the region here has finally stabilized and the exodus of people from the area is tailing off finally.
It is very possible to do this, will the cities current leadership "think outside the box" and mortgage some of the cities future for a civil project such as this in order to keep a valued asset such as the Buffalo Bills in the region?
I don't know, but the mere mention of it at least being discussed is a very positive sign indeed.
-
I would gladly vote yes for a bond issuance on a 1 to 1.5 billion dollar facility in downtown Buffalo.
And it's about time the leadership in the area started thinking outside of the box on this as well.
-
Mr. Pegula bought the agency because of the record label attached to it.
It had little to do with the player agency side of the business.
Remember, Mr. Pegula already owns a country music label.
-
I think Marcell would look better if the Bills had a greyhound on the end that could rush the passer and take away the OL's attention
You mean like a Maybin?
I kid...I kid...
-
After 21 years of fanhood, that's pretty much my answer.
"Hun, I just like a bad team"
"Girls, I just like a bad team"
"Bill (my dog), I just like a bad team" ruff ruff
My little girls do their cheering every week, but even that doesnt work.
I have been advised by fair weathered fans to pick another team....That will never work. After 21 years???? So at the end of the day, all I can say is, "I just like a bad team"
Dammit!!!!!! I really dont think this will ever change either.
for all the old timers, what has helped you remain a fan?
ps This is not negative nancy, im normally positive peter. this post is coming from realistic rick.
You asked us old timers what helps us remain fans......well, there is always that hope, there's always next year and there is always that deep down inside passion about this area that we'd like to be a winner, just one time.
-
So what, so the Bills are what most of us new them to be, a crappy team.......
"Bills still one of the worst NFL teams, film at 11.....
It's been this way for 11 years now, nothing has really changed. Why should this surprise anyone.
-
Interesting question, but really a non-subject.
He started the Bills, he has the right to own it until his death.
Buffalo fans need to realize it was never about the "fans". It's always been about the business.
The team is going to get relocated anyways once Ralph is gone, so why worry about his reasoning for hanging on to the team.
Enjoy the team, win or loose, while they are here.
-
Loved it.
Obviously a classy guy, thought that was the highlight of the game for the Bills.
-
Bills fans for all their hearty winter weather reputation have never entirely "warmed" to going to the Ralph in December.
Of their 14 non-sellouts from 2000-10, eight of them were in December and nine after Thanksgiving. According to Bills, the numbers for December were even worse in the 1990s when the team was actually winning.
just providing some perspective.
jw
DOMED STADIUM
-
Again. The Bills are in first place at the halfway mark. So what is the excuse now?
PTR
There is no excuse, just that Buffalo is not a football town any longer.
The Sabres are the premier professional sports team in Western New York, and for several reasons, not the least of which is 10 years of a very poor on field product from the Bills organization.
Not to mention the proximity to Canada (where Hockey reins supreme).
Then there is the mixed feelings some fans have about home games outside of WNY.....and the list goes on, but the primary reason being the product that has been produced over the past 10 years.
Can't blame the fans, I haven't spent my hard earned cash on going to Bills games since 98.
Although, it is enjoyable if your not a homer and just enjoy the sport, but 99% of fans are loyal to the home team when going to a game.
-
State of the local economy is a factor in support of a dome in NF. need something to spur a recovery/revitalization. not going to happen on its own. NF needs to shed the factories as America has lost this battle to places like China and other emerging economies. Get back to "clean uses" that leverage existing assets like the falls, when possible. seriously, waiting for the economy to turn and then build a dome has it arse-backwards
Ok, I tried to bring 8 to 12 thousand middle income jobs to NF, the powers that be at the local and state level put the whammy on that with their "PAY TO PLAY" mentality.
Joe, you need to come to the realization here that Niagara County is the most corrupt county in WNY when it comes to politics. I have experienced it first hand and Albany is right in the mix on it.
Also, you cannot shed the factories the way you suggest, it's not that easy.
Occidental Chemical, Dupont Sodium/Olen Chemical, Niacet, Praxair.....they are all here to stay in that industrial corridor. The cost of a cleanup of that area would be well into the upper 15 to 20 billion range and would take years.
Downtown NF is a different story altogether however, and the one thing holding back any development down there is the tight grip certain (won't name names, do your own research) groups or people have on not only the property, but the permitting process at the political level as well.
The economy will not turn around in this area (Erie county included) until the existing power structure of the 2 party system and it's supporting money is removed from the equation, it really is that simple.
-
..I couldn't agree more, but I guess that means the Bills are looking for a two billion dollar investor for a stadium and the team. Not going to happen.
This I can agree with.
There are some avenues to take on this with the "thinking outside of the box" mentality. It's not entirely outside of the realm of possibilities, but yes, I do agree that it would be a "hard sell", especially given the current circumstances in the region concerning market size.
Any plan on a domed stadium would surely have to include a broader plan to bring in jobs and not only retain the regions current population size, but also have viable plans to grow and expand it.
That won't happen here in WNY at this time given the political climate at both the state as well as the local level.
To much of the me, me, me and cronyism/patronage system in play here. Actually, I'm surprised the younger generations haven't looked at the situation with some seriousness and attempted in large scale to change it, but then again, the youth in this area leave partially because they are sick to their stomachs of watching the older generations vote in these politicians that basically continue to rape the area, sad actually.
I didn't say there wouldn't be changes made, I am saying there's a lot of unused capacity. Changes would certainly be required in downtown buffalo and I could see the urban setting being far more problematic. in the NF-area be a lot easier for the state/city to claim large parcels of under utilized land under "emiment domain" and do as they see fit
We have an entire lake front on Fhurman Blvd that is more than amply ready to be developed for such a project.
The question I'd want answered would fall under the political will catagory.
-
I'll take the last posts 1 at a time, starting with Joe 6 pack.
1st Joe, my firm Eninthal, did a traffic study for the city of Niagara Falls with regards to a high truck volume industry (granted, not nearly an 80k seat stadiums worth, but a good example), Your way off base on your statements with regards to funneling of traffic with current infrastructure.
Niagara Falls is just a bad location for such a venue. A convention center and 10,000 seat arena would be perfect right across the street from the Casino, but that would have to include a multi-industry buildout to include Rainbow Blvd and more.
Astrojanitor,
A dome stadium would be a signature project and would change the landscape of downtown. Adding not only prestige, but also the ability to function on some levels as a major city center, allowing a draw to keep some of the youth and attract new. Granted, jobs would be the key to that, but it would most certainly add a touch of increased standard of living. Their are varibles at work here beyond the normal thoughts on this.
Mobywale,
While I don't discount some of what you say, a Super Bowl is most certainly an assured event, given the NFL's desire to increase it's fan base, even from outside the US markets. As a matter of fact, one of the NFL's staple programs is to increase market share in Canada. Not a bad idea actually, after all, Buffalo is a mere 1 1/2 hours from Toronto and currently has a bonus with regards to the exchange rate between the Canadian and American dollar.
Also, here is a link to the brief listing for the Metrodome.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubert_H._Humphrey_Metrodome#Other_events
There is such a huge, (and I cannot stress that enough) huge upside for standard of living, not only in the close surrounding communities, but regionally overall that it actually becomes easier to swallow as a civic project.
And there are many more events culturally and otherwise than what that link lists as well as yourself.
Thinking outside of the box is what is needed in this area, not the status quo.
We do atleast agree on downtown Buffalo as any new site for this type of venue, and I whole-heartedly agree.
To Marv's Neighbor,
I understand your sentiment on the cost, but ask yourself this.....
How many renovations of Ralph have occured to date and what was the overall cost to taxpayers?
Also, how many more renovations will take place, and once again, at what cost to taxpayers?
I can tell you this, to date, Rich Stadium (forgive me, it will always be Rich Stadium to me) combined with the old Veterans Stadium have cost (inflationary rate figured in) roughly 1.5 times the amount a new, state of the art, domed stadium would cost us.
I would vote for the bond offering on this in a heartbeat given the alternative of losing the team altogether combined with a subpar stadium such as Rich Stadium.
To Mr. WEO,
You can't compare the 2. Foxboro sits outside a metro area with roughly 4 million people, the numbers aren't even close for this area at a mere 1.5 million. In order to change that you'd have to add a facility that "increases the standard of living".
A dome stadium does this.
To Mike in HorseHeads,
You don't need the state, you need private investment, that is the only assured way of a successfully run facility until the debt is paid off. By then, the managing agency should have ample experience to run the facility on it's own merits.
-
Doesn't matter what they put in DT buffalo. It will never be host to anything of national or international importance, including a super bowl.
The objections to a dome in NF are all pretty lame and just smack of some lazy ass not wanting to drive the extra 15 minutes, too cheap (or worse broke) to drink anything but a 6 of genny cream pee water. Ie the exact type of fan the NFL doesn't see in its future.
Truth is NFL has gotten more family and corporate oriented, and with an international agenda, none of which work in an outdoor space on the outskirts of an acknowledged dying cold Weather city. Sure NF has similar problems but unlike buffalo it has an internationally renowned tourist attraction that will never be taken away. Along with the canadian side it is well suited to accomodate large number of visitors with accommodations and attractions, attracting families and businesses alike, and access to a constant stream of international visitors.
I wouldn't waste another dime on the Ralph.
Let's get with the future and build a dome near the Falls, putting the bills on top of the nfl economic food chain rather than groveling along the bottom in constant fear of getting eaten by bigger fish
Your comments are borderline ridiculous.
Especially the ones about Niagara Falls being family friendly, far from it.
Buffalo can not only handle the traffic with current infrastructure, it can easily build the accomadations necessary in a much more cost effective manner given the existence of the current infrastructure. Plus, as stated, Niagara Falls is a chemical pit, and there is literally near nothing in accomadations on the New York side, making traffic a nightmare experience.
A stadium would actually detract from the Falls itself on Sundays, as visitors here for that sole reason and not a football game would get the word out the the area is clogged with crazed American football fans.
No, not a good idea at all.....
No to a dome. For example: see Toronto.
No to Niagara Falls. I like the idea but even two seconds spent think about it you realise that transport is worse than it is for OP.
What's next? A stadium on Grand Island?
N
Yes to a domed stadium.
And for more than several reasons.
First of which is the economic benefit of having an all season indoor facility, especially in Buffalo, New York.
It makes no sense what so ever for the tax payers of Erie county (and subsequently New York through tax incentives, grants and the like) to continue to foot such a large bill on a civic building without increasing it's potential return through revenue generators.
I.E.
It's nice to hold a concert in Jan. (country music, rock, or whatever venue) in the 18 thousand seat First Niagara Center, But a domed stadium could hold events 4 times + that size.
It's common sense to maximize potential returns and minimize as much as possible, the financial impact on taxpayers.
Vikings' $975M stadium bill passed
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
Use the creative thinking skills of your brain.