Nevergiveup
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Posts posted by Nevergiveup
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i don't know if that's the way anyone has phrased it.
jw
ADD: heck, NGU might even agree with me on this.
After seeing more on the topic I do agree. Also I would like to formally apologize to you. I don't typically get involved in those types of strings. I was literally just passing through for the first time in awhile and was attempting to correct what I thought was a misconception without having all of the information. It was wrong of me to do so and I should have gone about in a more professional manner.
Just to clarify because I know it will come up here. I never said it was not about money. It is always a consideration, but not the only one in this case. I am not defending the organization. I would certainly like to see Lee Evans still in a Bills uniform. My attempt to clarify was about the process not the rationale.
Have to go, but I will try to check back later. Once again John Wawrow, my apologies.
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NGU, I said a few things in the heat of the moment that don't reflect who I am as a person and i sincerly apologize to you. I don't know you and I have no right to call you out on this board. I hope you will accept my apology and continue to provide the board with good, early information. What ever beef you have with JW has nothing to do with myself.
I do however hope you both with 'shake hands' and agree to disagree and move on. Bottom line, both of you are true fans of the game and true fans of the Bills and there is a lot to be said for that.
John. I really have no issue with him. The horse just got out of the barn so to speak. Now some of these comments are pretty funny and tough to not respond to.
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You're right. There is no reason to think that. You are making accusations about a man's livelihood, calling him amongst other things a liar and a hack journalist. Yet, you admit you didn't even read the piece in question. You don't even know WHAT he said but you're here making a rant about it.
Why?
Oh ... that's right. You won't say why you did it. Or who you are. Or what you do. Because you "have inside information". And it's impossible that anyone else can have sources themselves. Even better ones.
The truth is, if you work for the Bills and have been feeding us information without them knowing, you're not a very good employee. If you're a friend or relative of someone at OBD, then you're a bad friend for revealing privleged info behind their back.
Or, more realistically, if you work for the Bills, as you seem to, then they know what you post on here. And clearly you have an agenda here. But yet you refuse to admit it. Which makes you even more slimey.
You're here because someone at OBD got their panties in a bunch and you're doing damage control by making baseless (and cowardly) accusations without offering anything to back them up. You're OBD's lapdog. And not a very good one at that.
I think he had the rant covered. Other people probably have inside sources. However I have not seen any related to the Bill except at the national level. And those instances have been rare. I really don't have an agenda but your accusation makes me think that you might. How exactly am I doing damage control genius? I have not defended this move or any other. Looks like you are doing some for the reporter. Seemed he was over the top defensive regarding a comment from a unidentified poster. Makes you wonder......
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why is my comment silly? I have the right to find fault with someone on this board for openly slandering the name of a long time poster who has done nothing but provide us with great information, witty conversation, and who bleads Buffalo Bills football through and through. and NGU has the right to post to my comments and to defend himself if he choses to do so. thank you for monitoring this conversation.
I hope it wasn't slander. Sounds like he never said what I thought he said. Even though he never confirmed. And if you want to believe he has inside info it is certainly your right. I just disagree. That does not take away from him being a journalist.
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Hey crayonz! Think about this for a minute. An AP sportswriter publishes an article that he characterizes as shedding a "glimmer of light" on what is going on behind the curtain at the top of the Bills organization, and then makes comments here strongly implying that finances have become relatively more important to the organization - - but he doesn't actually cite specific sources for the information. Then NGU, who obviously has some sort of access to information that you would expect to be known only near the top of the Bills food chain, seems to try to deliberately provoke the sportswriter by continually, over and over, asserting that JW has absolutely no access to insider information, never has and never will.
How would you expect jw to respond to this, especially if you followed this board enough to know that jw can have a bit of a temper at times? What could NGU possibly be trying to accomplish?
And what happens next? JW, reputation predictably affronted, comes back with guarded examples of things he does know about, while leaving some of the details gray. So then NGU keeps baiting him, in a way that you think is out of character with NGU's previous posts. So why does NGU keep taunting jw about not having any inside information?
Ask yourself this question - - if you were somewhere in the mid to upper ranges of the Bills food chain, and an AP article made it obvious that somebody, somewhere was telling the press things that you would prefer to remain hidden, how would you go about finding the leak?
Can I prove this theory - - absolutely not - - but give me a different rational explanation for why NGU would choose this point in time to provoke JW by REPEATEDLY asserting, not merely that jw's story was inaccurate (indeed, NGU seems to have barely read the article), but that jw has no inside sources of information about how the Bills operate.
I know you don't want to believe it, but I was not trying to provoke. I was trying clear something up and went to far. Didn't realize how he and everyone else would react. I should have not continued, but the responses got the best me. Especially his. Pretty weak and never addressed the original assertion. This inside info thing is hilarious. There is nothing inside about anything I have seen of his. If I missed something let me know.
I hope JW kept enough details hidden to protect his source(s), and suspect that he did.
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well said Erik. NGU and people like him need other people's approval to pump up his ego and make him feel important. the best thing to do is to ignore him from now on. he isn't worth the time it took to read this post.
Man. I need to start posting more frequently. There have been long stretches between ego pumping. You can ignore my info if you want. Some people just don't want legitimate information. That is fine.
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Dont let today sway you...as far as I can remember I dont recall you ever getting any flack for posting inside information.
I didn;t think there was much to debate about what I said today. Boy was I wrong. I will check back in the future and try to be a little more careful. Just got caught up in the board. Some people would rather believe what they want to believe. Should have known better.
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Are you saying that Lee Evans initiated this by himself and he would be on the team if he didn't want out? Because that is what you just implied.
Kelly. I think I said it was part of the decision to move him. You don't automatically move a guy because he or his agent requests to be traded.
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Over the years NGU has posted information about forthcoming events that came true. That helps him build credibility.
Today he did nothing like that. He seemingly set out to attack the integrity of a fellow poster on the board, calling him out by his misspelled name. His reason seemed to be based on a misunderstanding of an article that had been written. That portion of the debate seems to be cleared up.
IMO his posts today seem to imply that finances had nothing to do with the Evans dump. He implies this by clearing Overdorf but not blaming another member of the financial team. We are supposed to believe the Evans move was for football reasons only. That is a joke.
Look, he has a lot of credibility to back up his statement about his own inside sources. Neither jw nor anyone else disputed that. The weird part is that he continues to attack jw for lack of specifics while at the same time leaving his own assertions implied instead of specific.
Do you have any credible information about the trade of Evans was initiated? If you can't share that can you at least share whether its initiation was based on football or finances?
First of all I never said it was or wasn't a salary dump. What is wrong with people? Even if it was, it would have nothing to do with Overdorf. I don't know how to be any more specific than that. Salary is always a consideration for any team, but that is not how the deal was initiated. He didn't want to be here. It is young team with no hope for the playoffs and he wouldn't be here when they were ready any way. A 4th rounder is not enough, but they were not going to get any more. Why does there aways have to be a big mystery. I really have nothing else to provide on this topic. You can think whatever you want.
And no matter how you spell his name, he has no inside info. That is not an attack, it is just the way it is. He can still keep writing his stories and you can keep reading them. Everyone is hung up on the inside info term. I know how I define it, but you can define it however you like.
Sorry you can't provide your name. But please enlighten us -- give us the "post credible information" about your job (whatever that means).
Someone will catch you up.
Never Give Up thanks as always for your information. Hearing your insights around draft time has been great, any objection to stopping by every once in while during the season to give us some information about what the organization is thinking?
Probably not a good idea based on today.
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This thread has been amusing, kind of like watching a cat fight in the high school cafeteria between two cheerleaders vying for the attention of the star quarterback. But it has gotten boring and I'd like to respond to your question before I drift away. For starters, how about your real name and what you do? That way you and John Wawrow are on equal footing when it comes to integrity and credibility. And by the way, his name is spelled W-A-W-R-O-W. There are only six characters in the name. That really isn't too difficult to remember.
Can't give you my name, but my job is post credible information for fans that want it.
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Maybe so but my point is that comment was out of line (The "no inside sources and never will" line) and that is pretty much what this thread is all about.
Erik. Give me someone that you think would have inside information and then let's think about the liklihood of that person disclosing information to the reporter in question. I know he is offended, but it is simply because all reporters want to create the perception that they have info that you do not. Not many do get legitimate inside info. I can't say I have ever seen anything ground breaking from him or most of the local reporters for that matter. Opinion, conjecture, etc. But not real inside info. Not sure why that is such a big deal to people.
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and there you go again.
an apology is not an apology when you come back with this same baloney schtick of pure unadulterated nonesense.
you can stick your assertions where ever you might want, but i wash my hands of this now as i have lost all respect in how you have handled yourself through much of this. sorry for giving you the forum to expose yourself as someone delusional enough to believe that you -- and no one else -- are the one and only source of anything of merit.
(shakes his head, signs his name)
jw
Had to edit. Should have never dignified this with a response. Not sure why I would get into it with someone like this in the first place. My bad.
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well, actually, two but who's counting as you still can't spell my name right.
i really hate to break it to you, but i've never claimed to be a know-all and be-all.
the only question i have left is why would you come out write what you did in regards to me. it was so blatantly off the wall and provoke-driven that it's really put both of us in a bad light. and yet you persist with these ham-handed comments in regards to me and my colleagues.
it makes me wonder if you have any inside information at all, or whether someone has cracked your password in accessing this board.
you come off sounding more like that Jets fan "seeking a trader," than someone who built a very good reputation on this board, only to throw it away with these handgrenade rants about me and everyone else not knowing anything.
it's really sad.
jw
If you didn't say Overdorf was behind the Evans trade then we have nothing to argue about and I apologize.
Regarding the rants, it was one time. I typically stick to legitimate inside information for the people on the board. I should not have directed this at you, however I do stick to my assertion that the media that follows the team has no real inside information. Not sure why people would think otherwise or why you would care.
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Okay ... now you're just being an aszhole. And a coward. If you do work for the Bills (and it's clear that you do) I have lost total respect for how that front office does business. If there was any left in the first place.
First you call out a man for doing his job and claim his report is inaccurate. Now you admit you never even read the report in the first place -- or at the very least failed to understand the language in which it was written.
You're a joke. You get inside info and you post it on here to feel better about yourself and then you slander someone who makes their living at this without offering a shred of proof or even your name. You needlessly throw a man under the bus while hiding behind shield of wanna-be-tough-guy cowards everywhere: anonymous internet posting. This isn't like flaming a bad poster. This is calling out someone's profession.
And you choose the most cowardly, back handed way to go about this.
Eff off.
Okay ... now you're just being an aszhole. And a coward. If you do work for the Bills (and it's clear that you do) I have lost total respect for how that front office does business. If there was any left in the first place.
First you call out a man for doing his job and claim his report is inaccurate. Now you admit you never even read the report in the first place -- or at the very least failed to understand the language in which it was written.
You're a joke. You get inside info and you post it on here to feel better about yourself and then you slander someone who makes their living at this without offering a shred of proof or even your name. You needlessly throw a man under the bus while hiding behind shield of wanna-be-tough-guy cowards everywhere: anonymous internet posting. This isn't like flaming a bad poster. This is calling out someone's profession.
And you choose the most cowardly, back handed way to go about this.
Eff off.
Or I could just be right. No reason to think that.
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Thanks for your reply:)
How can guys like Nix and Gailey stand that type of environment - and it surely explains why no one of real reputation is interested in coming here for coaching or management positions. Does Ralph, or would Ralph, in your opinion, ever just go all in on trying to get a championship before he's gone, or is it just a business in his perspective?
He would at the right time. However in his mind who knows when that would be.
Regarding Chan and Buddy. Do you think they would get HC and GM jobs else where? They are not in a position to pass on those jobs.
I didn't login for a few hours and just sw this conflagration. For some strange reason, I feel compelled to ask for white flags to be waved all around. I am sure I speak for many posters on this board when I say that we value both John W and NGU's contribution to this board. Whatever the truth is regarding the general power structure and the happenings around Evans' departure, is there any way you guys can just walk away with your heads held high ? As we respect you, perhaps showing the same to each other may calm tempers around here.
Again, thanks for your contributions. More proof that we are all passionate fans. I am done, now I go to drink. Safe weekend to all and a Happy Labor Day.
Good call. I am off that subject. Sorry for bringing it up.
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Nevergiveup- what I have gathered from this thread is what we all fear; that Ralph is still involved with the day-to-day operations of the franchise. Since this has turned into a Q+A, and since your track record is impeccable, I might as well go with the big one. Do you have any knowledge of the long term plans of the franchise? Is Ralph to be taken at his word, that they will go up for sale upon his passing, or is there more to it than that?
I don't know and there is probably only 2 people that do. But my opinion, if Kelly thinks it has any value, is that is goes up for sale.
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NGU - if you're still posting, what are your thoughts on the Bills organizaton in regards to where they're going, whether they are capable of becoming a championship caliber team with things the way they are now, or if the structure in place will prevent that from happening. It seems to me that the Bills are behaving as if they are handicapped by their market, as if they cannot compete, and with that attitude, it is no wonder they haven't. Is there a real chance it could change in the next few years, or is the organization hopeless with Ralph at the helm. What is the opinion from the inside of this league?
You are just looking at a complete rebuild via the draft. At some point they will add legit free agents, but you are probably at least 2 years away from that. You can only hope that Buddy is as good at judging talent as some think.
Unfortunately it is always a little hopeless with Ralph. You never no when or where he will interject himself with devastating results.
I think there is a well-established past history of the owner making bad decisions. However, can you comment on how often the owner is intervening in decisions under the current regime, as opposed to prior GMs - at least based on what you have heard?
Less than he was. But anything at his age is too much.
So you started with telling jw what he does and doesn't know, and now you're telling me what I think? I happen to believe every word of what I just posted.
OK. don;t stop Billieving.
So you started with telling jw what he does and doesn't know, and now you're telling me what I think? I happen to believe every word of what I just posted.
All I said is that if he though Overdorf was "behind" the trade he was wrong. If not, then we had nothing to argue about in the first place. Maybe you knwo more than me, But I doubt it.
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I agree. It is an argument because Jerry Sullivan and several posters on this board have tried to spin this into a "bean counters run the Bills" argument, and the evidence is shaky at best.
I don't completely disagree with that. However the real bean counter is Littman. And most of the truly bad decisions like letting Pat Williams go are on the owner. And it was not as much money as it was he thought he was done. He is just not capable of making good decisions and has not been for quite some time unfortunately.
That is not at all an answer to my question, no. I am very particular about words. I read close. It's my job. And for the fourth time, above, he avoided the answer. It's okay.
I also assume he has good reasons for not answering it specific, and I don't blame him. I'm trying to find something out from a different source, who is a respected poster here, NGU. I heard something specific about that trade that directly conflicts. I don't know who is right, and I will never know because I was not there. That doesn't mean I don't want to find out as much good information as I can to help form or solidify my opinion.
I have an opinion of what happened on the trade, based on a lot of information from both good reliable sources as well as second hand info. I'm not always right and don't expect to be. It's an opinion. I will gladly alter or change or even reverse that opinion should reliable information come up that contradicts what I heard. So far, I asked NGU four separate times if he knows how this specific trade went down. So there is nothing specific to alter what I have already heard from very good sources.
Kelly. I know you don't really beleive what you are saying.
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Does Overdorf report to Nix directly?
Yes. As much as anyone can when you have the owner that the Bills have.
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Laughs. I keep asking because you haven't answered. In three separate attempts, you have not really answered the simple question. It's A or B, one or the other. I will respect your opinion either way. Therefore, I assume you don't have specific knowledge of how this trade actually went down, despite saying Overdorf was not "behind" it, which is the point in question. Instead, I assume you have rather specific and very believable knowledge of how the front office commonly works. And I thank you for it.
Kelly. You know I can only go so far. So if it makes you feel better to assume or you think it helps you make your point, I understand. Enjoy your evening.
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Something doesn't add up. The guy that handles the cap and player contracts has no input into the biggest liability of the business?
So basically, you are saying he is nothing but a puppet. That would imply that he could not have handled a trade or really done much of anything without someone else pulling his strings and pointing him to the right boxes in the spreadsheet then?
The next question would be why would someone want to set the record absolutely straight about a guy who's role is nothing more than a puppet? In fact, wouldn't this act take some ire off Overdorf and redirect it towards the puppet master?
It would direct it else where, but that was not the intent. I simply made the mistake of logging on today and saw something I thought would be easy to clear up. Man did it spiral out of control.
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Actually, all I want to know is if you know for a fact how this particular trade went down and willing to put your reputation on it OR whether what you said is simply how this front office works.
It is how it works and Overdorf was not "behind" this trade. Not sure why you keep asking. You seem compelled to beleive otherwise. It is so ridiculous it did not deserve this much conversation.
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I think this is total BS. If it is a fact that someone other than the Bills GM conceived of and executed the trade then jw is free to report it, as it is obviously newsworthy. If it was true, there would be nothing preventing him from reporting it other than perhaps his concern for his precious locker room access.
Schefter would have reported it.
If that were true, it should have been a bigger story.
Indeed, and it is a shame, since his implication has allowed people from Jerry Sullivan to KTFABD to build entire thought castles on it, even in the face of intriguing contradictory evidence.
Well stated
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Did the Bills actually think that marv would have been a good GM? He was cheap and a name people liked.
Only one person thought he would be a good GM. The only one that mattered.
Buddy on Shredd and Ragan a few minutes ago
in The Stadium Wall Archives
Posted
I wold not want it to come to that.
Just thought it was the right thing to do. That was not a good way to approach the discussion.