Thurman#1 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writ...line/index.html It's an article about offensive lines and in particular, how important continuity and chemistry, which is weird because it's quite positive about the Bills, even ending with a comment about them. Here's a quote (not the final sentence, a different one) from the article, "That means if you are a fan of a team with legitimate title aspirations and multiple new starters up front, like the Bears, Bills, Eagles, Ravens and Vikings, pay particular attention to the big boys over the next couple of weeks." Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HurlyBurly51 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 linky no work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McBeane Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 linky no work same problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 So judging by the original poster, I'll guess he meant this Ross Tucker article... 'Two C's' are crucial for OLs ...and not this one: Peters trade has already started game of musical chairs in draft GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 So judging by the original poster, I'll guess he meant this Ross Tucker article... 'Two C's' are crucial for OLs ...and not this one: Peters trade has already started game of musical chairs in draft GO BILLSSS!!!! 19 and 0 baby!!!!! Thanks, we can always count on you Senator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Thanks, we can always count on you Senator My pleasure. Thurman#1 does seem to put some credence into what Ross Tucker's opinions, so I'm surprised he didn't cite this piece... NFL Pro Bowl voting among players should be consistent Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperKillerRobots Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 "...and a force in 2010 and beyond."!? Man, wouldn't that be sweet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 My pleasure. Thurman#1 does seem to put some credence into what Ross Tucker's opinions, so I'm surprised he didn't cite this piece... NFL Pro Bowl voting among players should be consistent Ross Tucker seems to really like Jason Peters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Ross Tucker seems to really like Jason Peters Yeah, but not as much as... Joe DeLamielleure (go to around the 8:24 mark in the interview when he starts talking about Peters) Now why wouldn't two former Bills offensive linemen - one a Hall-of-Famer, and one who played alongside FatBoy - not realize what the TSW experts and Peters FanBoys know about football, playing o-line, and specifically Peters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Yeah, but not as much as... Joe DeLamielleure (go to around the 8:24 mark in the interview when he starts talking about Peters) Now why wouldn't two former Bills offensive linemen - one a Hall-of-Famer, and one who played alongside FatBoy - not realize what the TSW experts and Peters FanBoys know about football, playing o-line, and specifically Peters? I think the opinion of players who actually play with and against him, are a far better indicator than two guys who no longer play the game. The guys that play now, voted him to the Pro Bowl, despite what TSW experts and Peters haters think they know about football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I think the opinion of players who actually play with and against him, are a far better indicator than two guys who no longer play the game. The guys that play now, voted him to the Pro Bowl, despite what TSW experts and Peters haters think they know about football. So you're a #'s guy, Dean - what percentage of "the guys that play now and voted him to the Pro Bowl" actually played with/against Peters? (I don't consider a WR, QB, RB, offensive lineman, kicker, etc., from a team we play - nor anyone from a team we don't play - as someone who played against him.) I'm curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I think the opinion of players who actually play with and against him, are a far better indicator than two guys who no longer play the game. The guys that play now, voted him to the Pro Bowl, despite what TSW experts and Peters haters think they know about football. I'm far from a Peters hater but do you honestly believe a guy who allowed 11.5 sacks in 13 games is a deserving pro bowler? Plus, how many 3 and shorts did we have stuffed running to his side? One rookie LT (Clady) didn't give up a sack. Another gave up only one (Long) on a playoff team. Just because they are players in the league doesn't mean they pour over game tapes of tackle play. I'm sure the majority just vote on guys they've heard of. Peters was underrated and became overrated. And the same thing has happen with the LT position. It's still important but you can get by with an elite guy, which I don't think Peters was anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 So you're a #'s guy, Dean - what percentage of "the guys that play now and voted him to the Pro Bowl" actually played with/against Peters? (I don't consider a WR, QB, RB, offensive lineman, kicker, etc., from a team we play - nor anyone from a team we don't play - as someone who played against him.) I'm curious. Percentages are irrelvant. Do you know what the percentage of ex Bills lineman think of Peters? Then real answer to your inquiry is: More than 2. More than 2 players who played against or with Peters voted him into the Pro Bowl. That's enough to counter the specious argument you set out in your last post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Percentages are irrelvant. Do you know what the percentage of ex Bills lineman think of Peters? Then real answer to your inquiry is: More than 2. More than 2 players who played against or with Peters voted him into the Pro Bowl. That's enough to counter the specious argument you set out in your last post. Arm? That you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm far from a Peters hater but do you honestly believe a guy who allowed 11.5 sacks in 13 games is a deserving pro bowler? Plus, how many 3 and shorts did we have stuffed running to his side? One rookie LT (Clady) didn't give up a sack. Another gave up only one (Long) on a playoff team. Just because they are players in the league doesn't mean they pour over game tapes of tackle play. I'm sure the majority just vote on guys they've heard of. Peters was underrated and became overrated. And the same thing has happen with the LT position. It's still important but you can get by with an elite guy, which I don't think Peters was anyways. I don't know if he belonged or not, and neither do most who post here. The players are FAR less likely to vote for "guys they have heard of" than the public, IMO. The players have heard of most players. Peters, in fact, is a relative unknown at LT, compared to guys with big resumes and a high draft pick number. Plus, I assume those that know the game realize there is way more to evaluating the play of a LT than simply the unofficial "sacks allowed" stat. As has been shown here in the past, some of the great LTs of our time have allowed 9 or more sacks in a season. How many plays from scrimmage does a LT get? Do you think judging his entire value on the 11.5 plays is reasonable? I don't. Especially when no one can define what constitutes a "sack allowed". But, let's get to the real point here. Most of the Peters hate has little to do with his play. It is directed at his holdout and contract demands. The Senator was one of the biggest Peters knob gobblers, early in his career. But since he dissed the Bills, in the Sen's mind, he now stinks. That's childish. I think, because of the holdout, Peters had an off year. I don't begrudge the Bills for trading him, and think they may end up being better for it. But that doesn't mean Peters stinks as an LT. If the players and coaches voted him into the Pro Bowl, I will take their vote over the gripes of pissed off fans, and the opinion of an obviously bitter ex-Bill (Joe D) and a guy who couldn't hold Peters' jock as an offensive lineman (Tucker). OK, that's not true, I'm sure Tucker could hold, and perhaps wash and dry Peters' jock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I'm far from a Peters hater but do you honestly believe a guy who allowed 11.5 sacks in 13 games is a deserving pro bowler? Plus, how many 3 and shorts did we have stuffed running to his side? One rookie LT (Clady) didn't give up a sack. Another gave up only one (Long) on a playoff team. Just because they are players in the league doesn't mean they pour over game tapes of tackle play. I'm sure the majority just vote on guys they've heard of. Peters was underrated and became overrated. And the same thing has happen with the LT position. It's still important but you can get by with an elite guy, which I don't think Peters was anyways. The League should give out a statistical top ten NFL player in all positions media guide for voters to look over that illustrates the top ten players in each position( by stats) and gives a brief description of each one so we can at least get everyone on the same page. Its not a popularity contest and it would be nice to get the best players at each position invited to the Pro Bowl if at all possible, that is the idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 The League should give out a statistical top ten NFL player in all positions media guide that illustrates the top ten players in each position( by stats) and gives a brief description of each one so we can at least get everyone on the same page. Its not a popularity contest and it would be nice to get the best players at each position invited to the Pro Bowl if at all possible, that is the idea. But stats don't tell you who the best players are, necessarily. What stats would you use for a Left Tackle? Keep in mind, sacks allowed is NOT an NFL stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I don't know if he belonged or not, and neither do most who post here. The players are FAR less likely to vote for "guys they have heard of" than the public, IMO. The players have heard of most players. Peters, in fact, is a relative unknown at LT, compared to guys with big resumes and a high draft pick number. Plus, I assume those that know the game realize there is way more to evaluating the play of a LT than simply the unofficial "sacks allowed" stat. As has been shown here in the past, some of the great LTs of our time have allowed 9 or more sacks in a season. How many plays from scrimmage does a LT get? Do you think judging his entire value on the 11.5 plays is reasonable? I don't. Especially when no one can define what constitutes a "sack allowed". But, let's get to the real point here. Most of the Peters hate has little to do with his play. It is directed at his holdout and contract demands. The Senator was one of the biggest Peters knob gobblers, early in his career. But since he dissed the Bills, in the Sen's mind, he now stinks. That's childish. I think, because of the holdout, Peters had an off year. I don't begrudge the Bills for trading him, and think they may end up being better for it. But that doesn't mean Peters stinks as an LT. If the players and coaches voted him into the Pro Bowl, I will take their vote over the gripes of pissed off fans, and the opinion of an obviously bitter ex-Bill (Joe D) and a guy who couldn't hold Peters' jock as an offensive lineman (Tucker). OK, that's not true, I'm sure Tucker could hold, and perhaps wash and dry Peters' jock. Uh oh...The Dean's 'on the hooch' again...and this time it's an angry buzz... Gin, I'll guess...God, I hate when he gets like this... The Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 Uh oh...Dean's 'on the hooch' again...and this time it's an angry buzz... Gin, I'll guess...God, I hate when he gets like this... The Dean I notice you make no effort to refute what I have said, though. And, I AM angry. Somebody stole my bicycle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 6, 2009 Share Posted August 6, 2009 I notice you make no effort to refute what I have said, though. And, I AM angry. Somebody stole my bicycle! I'm still flabbergasted by your Arm-like statistical refutation regarding Pro Bowl voting (Sorry about the bike, though - I know it was expensive.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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