Who Should Actually Be On The Stadium Wall? An Exercise

[corta765]

With the recent news of the team adding players names to the stadium after originally planning on having just the family circle, it has caused some disagreement of who truly belongs vs who doesn't. Some people view the names as a telling of the story of the teams history, while others like myself and @Kirby Jackson see it as an ultimate honor that should be held to a higher standard.

 

Well here is a fun exercise that might illuminate the picture more that it is not as easy as either side wants. Decade by decade you get to pick two names who played as the players that go on the wall. I will be loose with the criteria and if you even played one year in one decade but the majority in the other it still counts for both. 

Here is who I picked:

 

1960's: Jack Kemp & Ralph Wilson

1970's: Joe DeLamielleure & Fred Smerlas (OJ would've been my other pick but with what we know now, have an exhibit on the electric company in the 70s and what OJ did to cover that)

1980's: Bruce Smith & Thurman Thomas

1990's: Jim Kelly & Andre Reed

2000's: Eric Moulds & Ruben Brown

2010's: Kyle Williams & Micah Hyde

2020's: Josh Allen & Dion Dawkins

 

What I found with this is your truly best stick out easy for who should be there. But there are certainly players worthy of it too who fall because of the others. James Lofton had four years in Buffalo but was great & is in the HOF. Billy Shaw probably belongs over Ralph just off accomplishments, but Ralph created the team, kept it here, and helped to ensure its future + also is a HOF like Shaw. Bob Kalsu is a guy for what he did and sacrificed I absolutely believe should be on the wall. Kyle Williams is an easy pick for 1 spot of the 2010s, but if Hyde, Poyer, Tre White, McCoy all have very strong cases to be the other guy. Brian Moorman was on the NFLs All Decade Team for the 2000s and absolutely has a compelling case over Moulds & Brown. It ends up being a bit more complex then I even expected, although it does highlight you could still have a smaller in stadium grouping at the same time. 

Edited September 4 by corta765

[Kirby Jackson]

I love this and think your list is pretty close. I’d probably carve out a little side place for “contributors.” That would be Ralph, Marv, Polian, Saban, and Van Miller (or something like that). Basically a group of people that deserve to be immortalized but weren’t players.

 

From there:

60’s: Kemp, Shaw

70’s: Joe D., Robert James (no OJ obviously)

80’s & 90’s: Bruce, Thurman, Kelly, Andre

2000’s: Brown and Moulds

2010’s: Kyle Williams, McCoy

Today: Josh, Dawkins

 

Plenty to debate and some guys warrant the honor like Tasker that the exercise doesn’t have room for. 

 

[TheyCallMeAndy]

Hear me out

 

... Brian Moorman

[corta765]

11 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

 

2010’s: Kyle Williams, McCoy

I forever feel bad he got drafted to Buffalo. If he was a Patriot he would've made the HOF, he was sensational and got a raw deal. Not enough is mentioned how location & the draw a team has impacts so much perception on a player.

Edited September 4 by corta765

[Augie]

8 minutes ago, TheyCallMeAndy said:

Hear me out

 

... Brian Moorman

 

MVP! MVP! MVP!!! 

 

…and we sent him to the Pro Bowl like a sacrificial lamb.  😂

[Buffalo716]

14 minutes ago, corta765 said:

I forever feel bad he got drafted to Buffalo. If he was a Patriot he would've made the HOF, he was sensational and got a raw deal. Not enough is mentioned how location & the draw a team has impacts so much perception on a player.

Possibly but with 48 career sacks I don't think that was going to happen 

 

Hall of very good and a tremendous person.. going to New England wasn't going to add 25 sacks

 

Statistically he's a little short.. 

 

If he got 3 super bowls yea that could help.. he mite have 1 first team All pro with patriots next to his name...

 

The average Hall of Fame DT has 4.. he doesn't have stats for 4 first teams all pros and he did get stats in Buffalo 

 

 

Edited September 4 by Buffalo716

[BuffaloBillyG]

25 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I love this and think your list is pretty close. I’d probably carve out a little side place for “contributors.” That would be Ralph, Marv, Polian, Saban, and Van Miller (or something like that). Basically a group of people that deserve to be immortalized but weren’t players.

 

From there:

60’s: Kemp, Shaw

70’s: Joe D., Robert James (no OJ obviously)

80’s & 90’s: Bruce, Thurman, Kelly, Andre

2000’s: Brown and Moulds

2010’s: Kyle Williams, McCoy

Today: Josh, Dawkins

 

Plenty to debate and some guys warrant the honor like Tasker that the exercise doesn’t have room for. 

 

That's a good list and I agree on almost all.

 

McCoy, to me, wasn't a Bill that long and really wasn't as impactful here as he was in Philly. If we are going to include him, then it would IMO open up the conversation for Diggs. 

[corta765]

1 minute ago, Buffalo716 said:

Possibly but with 43 career sacks I don't think that was going to happen 

 

Hall of very good and a tremendous person.. going to New England wasn't going to add 30 sacks 

 

Statistically he's a little short

 

 

 

That is why I am saying a bigger market better team he gets a few more sacks, plays in the playoffs, maybe gets a ring, and another pro-bowl off rep. Guys on crappy teams really earn their way to honors because they don't get the benefit of primetime or playoffs to highlight their careers. He probably is the Hall of Good not Great, but I will maintain going somewhere that wins absolutely can elevate guys to Great.

[Don Otreply]

ME!!!

[Buffalo716]

5 minutes ago, corta765 said:

 

That is why I am saying a bigger market better team he gets a few more sacks, plays in the playoffs, maybe gets a ring, and another pro-bowl off rep. Guys on crappy teams really earn their way to honors because they don't get the benefit of primetime or playoffs to highlight their careers. He probably is the Hall of Good not Great, but I will maintain going somewhere that wins absolutely can elevate guys to Great.

Obviously going to the right spot can elevate you.. 

 

But he was in NFL systems that allowed him to get good statistics.. Bill belichick liked his defensive tackles to two Gap we let Kyle Williams attack 

 

In fact Kyle Williams has more sacks than any defensive tackle has ever had under Bill belichick so no I really don't think his sack numbers would be better 

 

He would have gotten more recognition for sure.. would he have a couple more pro bowls probably.. would he maybe have one or two all pros... Sure

 

But the average Hall of Fame defensive tackle has four first team all pros even going to belichick I don't think Kyle had the numbers to do that..  statistically his Buffalo numbers are better than what Bill belichick does with defensive tackles 

 

He just would have got more recognized 

 

So let's just say 48 sacks two all pros... Will keep his sack total which is probably more than he would have gotten under Bill... It's probably good enough to get on the top 50 ballot.. but statistically still not at the top of defensive tackles 

 

Kyle certainly I think is a borderline player.. I think he would have got more recognition with Bill but I don't think his stats would have been actually better but his recognition would be

Edited September 4 by Buffalo716

[T.E.]

Gotta have a lineman or two from the 1990s, considering how dominant they were. I like the idea of Fred Jackson being up there as one of the very few entertaining players of the drought who had a ton of heart.

[NewEra]

35 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I love this and think your list is pretty close. I’d probably carve out a little side place for “contributors.” That would be Ralph, Marv, Polian, Saban, and Van Miller (or something like that). Basically a group of people that deserve to be immortalized but weren’t players.

 

From there:

60’s: Kemp, Shaw

70’s: Joe D., Robert James (no OJ obviously)

80’s & 90’s: Bruce, Thurman, Kelly, Andre

2000’s: Brown and Moulds

2010’s: Kyle Williams, McCoy

Today: Josh, Dawkins

 

Plenty to debate and some guys warrant the honor like Tasker that the exercise doesn’t have room for. 

 

If McCoy is up there, James Cook should be too.  To the same point, if McCoy is up there, Diggs should be too
 

If Kyle Williams is up there, I think Biscuit should be too.  Unless the criminal stuff is what is keeping him off. 
 

I agree with the rest.  
 

jmo

[Kirby Jackson]

8 minutes ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

That's a good list and I agree on almost all.

 

McCoy, to me, wasn't a Bill that long and really wasn't as impactful here as he was in Philly. If we are going to include him, then it would IMO open up the conversation for Diggs. 

McCoy was the toughest for me because of the decade. Fred Jackson is more of a Bill but McCoy was better. In an ideal world you’d trade one of your 2010’s spots and one of your 1970’s spots for additional spots in the 90’s or 2020’s. 

[corta765]

6 minutes ago, Don Otreply said:

ME!!!

NO

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

McCoy was the toughest for me because of the decade. Fred Jackson is more of a Bill but McCoy was better. In an ideal world you’d trade one of your 2010’s spots and one of your 1970’s spots for additional spots in the 90’s or 2020’s. 

 

Fred like Fitz was a fan fav in a bad time and absolutely was a big part of the community.

 

McCoy was just straight up great and a very big reason the drought ended in 2017. They really don't compare to me as McCoy is ahead of Fred in every way minus longevity.

[oldmanfan]

I lived through each decade.  My choices: 

 

60’s:  Kemp, Shaw. Sestak, Stratton, Kalsu, Duby, Byrd

70’s:  Joe D, Fergy, James, Chandler, McKenzie

80’s:  Cribbs, Bermuda Triangle (Smerlas, Haslett, Nelson), 

90’s (putting Super Bowl guys here): Bruce, Jimbo, Andre, Thurman, Tasker, Talley, Hull, Lofton

00’s:  Jackson, Moulds, Reuben Brown, Fletcher (put Jackson here since he started this decade)

10’s:  Kyle, McCoy, 

20’s:  Josh, Cook, Dawkins, Shakir

 

Of course Ralph, Marv, Polian, Abramowski.  Would have had Jerry Butler if he hadn’t got hurt, might have been our best ever.

 

Edited September 5 by oldmanfan

[BuffaloBillyG]

5 minutes ago, Kirby Jackson said:

McCoy was the toughest for me because of the decade. Fred Jackson is more of a Bill but McCoy was better. In an ideal world you’d trade one of your 2010’s spots and one of your 1970’s spots for additional spots in the 90’s or 2020’s. 

 

4 minutes ago, corta765 said:

NO

 

Fred like Fitz was a fan fav in a bad time and absolutely was a big part of the community.

 

McCoy was just straight up great and a very big reason the drought ended in 2017. They really don't compare to me as McCoy is ahead of Fred in every way minus longevity.

What I've wanted to see for years is a spot to honor the guys that were maybe not Wall worthy, but definitely those who were fan favorites. That's where guys like Fitz, Stevie Johnson, Moorman and Fred Jackson would be IMO. Maybe do some flooring option. Like the walk of fame only shape it like chicken wings instead of stars. 

[Kirby Jackson]

Just now, BuffaloBillyG said:

 

What I've wanted to see for years is a spot to honor the guys that were maybe not Wall worthy, but definitely those who were fan favorites. That's where guys like Fitz, Stevie Johnson, Moorman and Fred Jackson would be IMO. Maybe do some flooring option. Like the walk of fame only shape it like chicken wings instead of stars. 

That’s pretty much EXACTLY what they were doing with that family circle area. They have that entire trail where they could do plaques to honor important people in Bills history. Apparently the fans complained so much about the WOF that they’re putting it back up in the stadium. That’s kind of how this conversation started. The Bills were doing it right. 

[BuffaloBillyG]

Just now, Kirby Jackson said:

That’s pretty much EXACTLY what they were doing with that family circle area. They have that entire trail where they could do plaques to honor important people in Bills history. Apparently the fans complained so much about the WOF that they’re putting it back up in the stadium. That’s kind of how this conversation started. The Bills were doing it right. 

I agree, that's what they should have done. If it were me, I use that trail to honor the Bills greats and fan favorites from the past. And then I use a "Wall of Fame" to honor those going forward. The Allen Era Bills and moving forward. None of the guys that were on the old wall actually played in this stadium. 

[Kirby Jackson]

2 hours ago, BuffaloBillyG said:

I agree, that's what they should have done. If it were me, I use that trail to honor the Bills greats and fan favorites from the past. And then I use a "Wall of Fame" to honor those going forward. The Allen Era Bills and moving forward. None of the guys that were on the old wall actually played in this stadium. 

The trail could have been really fun (and still can be). You could have little audio clips that you can play on your phone by scanning a QR code or whatever. Picture going for a walk with your kids, reading a plaque, scanning it and a video of “Fandemonium” comes up. You could basically tell the Bills story, chronologically, while honoring all the people that brought that story to life. That would make that place a destination in the summer. Think about when you go to a museum and you can listen along. This actually feels like a great idea.

Edited September 4 by Kirby Jackson

[BUFFALOBART]

1 hour ago, corta765 said:

With the recent news of the team adding players names to the stadium after originally planning on having just the family circle, it has caused some disagreement of who truly belongs vs who doesn't. Some people view the names as a telling of the story of the teams history, while others like myself and @Kirby Jackson see it as an ultimate honor that should be held to a higher standard.

 

Well here is a fun exercise that might illuminate the picture more that it is not as easy as either side wants. Decade by decade you get to pick two names who played as the players that go on the wall. I will be loose with the criteria and if you even played one year in one decade but the majority in the other it still counts for both. 

Here is who I picked:

 

1960's: Jack Kemp & Ralph Wilson

1970's: Joe DeLamielleure & Fred Smerlas (OJ would've been my other pick but with what we know now, have an exhibit on the electric company in the 70s and what OJ did to cover that)

1980's: Bruce Smith & Thurman Thomas

1990's: Jim Kelly & Andre Reed

2000's: Eric Moulds & Ruben Brown

2010's: Kyle Williams & Micah Hyde

2020's: Josh Allen & Dion Dawkins

 

What I found with this is your truly best stick out easy for who should be there. But there are certainly players worthy of it too who fall because of the others. James Lofton had four years in Buffalo but was great & is in the HOF. Billy Shaw probably belongs over Ralph just off accomplishments, but Ralph created the team, kept it here, and helped to ensure its future + also is a HOF like Shaw. Bob Kalsu is a guy for what he did and sacrificed I absolutely believe should be on the wall. Kyle Williams is an easy pick for 1 spot of the 2010s, but if Hyde, Poyer, Tre White, McCoy all have very strong cases to be the other guy. Brian Moorman was on the NFLs All Decade Team for the 2000s and absolutely has a compelling case over Moulds & Brown. It ends up being a bit more complex then I even expected, although it does highlight you could still have a smaller in stadium grouping at the same time. 

AFL champion, Butch Byrd.(1964-1970)Still holds the team record for interceptions.(40) Byrd played when the NFL had 14 game seasons, and never missed a game.