Comment by Josh after practice yesterday (9/1) about the playbook…

[Einstein]

27 minutes ago, Bruffalo said:

Dunne reported that it did. 

 

I think he's a hack reporter but I don't think he's an outright liar. 

Yeah, I do not believe McD said the offense left too much time (13 seconds). 

That makes zero sense.

[GunnerBill]

1 minute ago, MasterStrategist said:

We will never know, but if McD wanted to move to a more ball control offense and have "bigger"/possession type WRs --- and change the style of our offense, that's partially on him.  

 

Again, I could see in a hypothetical world:

Mcd: "Beane go find me best WRs that fit XYZ traits/skill set"

 

Either Beane learned his lesson, or was given more freedom to give up assets for a proven-caliber WR (in DJ).

 

He gave up assets for a proven receiver previously too when McDermott was here. He also drafted a bigger possession guy in Davis when McDermott was here. I don't see any distinction. Beane doesn't like drafting receivers early. He will do it very occasionally but he is always going to be lower down the league when it comes to draft capital on rookie receivers. He came from that Carolina school. He didn't draft them early when we had Brian Daboll and were throwing it around the yard. And then the assets he has spent at the position in terms of higher picks and cap dollars haven't worked out. 

[Bruffalo]

2 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Yeah, I do not believe McD said the offense left too much time (13 seconds). 

That makes zero sense.

Fair enough, but just because it doesn't make sense to you does not mean "it never happened" like you so authoritatively stated. 

 

There's a news report out there with an anonymous source saying it did happen, so it's at least plausible.   

 

It doesn't make sense that he'd praise the teamwork of the 9/11 hijackers either, but that also seems to have occurred. 

[Chandler#81]

Here’s a worthy comment!

 

https://x.com/robertnkrause1/status/2095204645140353315?s=61

[Einstein]

1 minute ago, Bruffalo said:

Fair enough, but just because it doesn't make sense to you does not mean "it never happened" like you so authoritatively stated. 

 

There's a news report out there with an anonymous source saying it did happen, so it's at least plausible.   

 

It doesn't make sense that he'd praise the teamwork of the 9/11 hijackers either, but that also seems to have occurred. 

In that same article, Tyler Dunne mentions his disdain for the fact that the Bills wouldn't give him a press credential. He then went on out on a mission to write a hit piece. He likely talked to a fired assistant coach with an axe to grind and garnered a quote that says this person "remembers" (odd way of putting it by the way) that McDermott blamed the offense for leaving a whopping 13 seconds on the clock. 

No other people, coaches or players alike, seemed to remember this, as evidenced by that being the one singular quote in the story. 

Not surprisingly, those with an axe to grind with McDermott believe this nonsense hit piece by a reporter that was refused access to the Bills, but deny the direct quote from Vic Carucci, a very highly respect Buffalo and NFL reporter, that states McD had major qualms with the roster Beane put together.

So yes, I feel very comfortable saying this didnt happen.

[Scott7975]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

 

That never happened 

 

Funny that you run around constantly repeating that Beane and Pegula were mad because McDermott supposedly said in a meeting that the roster wasn't good enough. The report was from second hand info anonymous source. You believe that of course. Yet another reporter says from an anonymous assistant coach that McD said "the offense scored too fast" and to this you say "That never happened."

You have no idea what has and has not happened. You are free to believe what you want but you don't know anymore than anyone else on this board what happens behind closed doors.

[Cash]

13 minutes ago, Chandler#81 said:

Here’s a worthy comment!

 

https://x.com/robertnkrause1/status/2095204645140353315?s=61

Not logging in to view the “sensitive content”. What does it say?

[Einstein]

5 minutes ago, Scott7975 said:

 

Funny that you run around constantly repeating that Beane and Pegula were mad because McDermott supposedly said in a meeting that the roster wasn't good enough. The report was from second hand info anonymous source. You believe that of course. Yet another reporter says from an anonymous assistant coach that McD said "the offense scored too fast" and to this you say "That never happened."

You have no idea what has and has not happened. You are free to believe what you want but you don't know anymore than anyone else on this board what happens behind closed doors.

I already spoke about this... guess i'll repost it for you:
 

In that same article, Tyler Dunne mentions his disdain for the fact that the Bills wouldn't give him a press credential. He then went on out on a mission to write a hit piece. He likely talked to a fired assistant coach with an axe to grind and garnered a quote that says this person "remembers" (odd way of putting it by the way) that McDermott blamed the offense for leaving a whopping 13 seconds on the clock. 

No other people, coaches or players alike, seemed to remember this, as evidenced by that being the one singular quote in the story. 

Not surprisingly, those with an axe to grind with McDermott believe this nonsense hit piece by a reporter that was refused access to the Bills, but deny the direct quote from Vic Carucci, a very highly respect Buffalo and NFL reporter, that states McD had major qualms with the roster Beane put together.

So yes, I feel very comfortable saying this didnt happen.

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, eball said:

I don’t know if anyone else caught this, but Josh was asked what he wanted to accomplish at training camp this year. He talked about building the connection with DJ Moore, working on his mechanics, normal stuff…but then he made what I took to be a very telling statement. He said he’s learning more “as Joe opens his playbook up.”

 

This is the first time I’ve heard something that directly suggests Brady’s playbook was “limited” under McDermott. Now, was that because of the personnel they did or didn’t have, or because McD had more control than we were led to believe? I guess that’s up to your individual interpretation.

 

Anyway, I found it interesting.

 

Josh seems dialed in.

 

It has seemed through the McD years that every game/every drive has started out with a run.   What I’d really like to see in the first game is start out with a play action deep ball to Moore.   Show the league that this will be a different offense.

[Bruffalo]

8 minutes ago, Einstein said:

Not surprisingly, those with an axe to grind with McDermott believe this nonsense hit piece by a reporter that was refused access to the Bills, but deny the direct quote from Vic Carucci, a very highly respect Buffalo and NFL reporter, that states McD had major qualms with the roster Beane put together.

So yes, I feel very comfortable saying this didnt happen.

He could have major qualms about the roster (and it was never expanded on what part of the roster he allegedly had an issue with) and still want to play a conservative, ball-control style offense.  Neither of those things are mutually exclusive. 

[Augie]

1 hour ago, MasterStrategist said:

Yes - McD certainly would have preferred to have a legit threat at WR.

 

But you also brought up that "McD didn't think this was a super bowl caliber roster" --- YOU mentioned that, and opened the door to talking about the entire roster, not just the WR room.

 

Opened the door for what? Are you looking for an opportunity to pounce? I’m talking about the topic. We can open up the playbook because we now hopefully have the right guys that allow us to do that. That includes a guy at WR other teams have to prepare for. 

 

McD is a trigger for a lot of people here, and I don’t get it. He’s gone! Get over it! 

[Scott7975]

30 minutes ago, Einstein said:

I already spoke about this... guess i'll repost it for you:
 

In that same article, Tyler Dunne mentions his disdain for the fact that the Bills wouldn't give him a press credential. He then went on out on a mission to write a hit piece. He likely talked to a fired assistant coach with an axe to grind and garnered a quote that says this person "remembers" (odd way of putting it by the way) that McDermott blamed the offense for leaving a whopping 13 seconds on the clock. 

No other people, coaches or players alike, seemed to remember this, as evidenced by that being the one singular quote in the story. 

Not surprisingly, those with an axe to grind with McDermott believe this nonsense hit piece by a reporter that was refused access to the Bills, but deny the direct quote from Vic Carucci, a very highly respect Buffalo and NFL reporter, that states McD had major qualms with the roster Beane put together.

So yes, I feel very comfortable saying this didnt happen.

 

Obviously I didn't see your quote when I responded to your post before it. Why do people seem to think others read an entire thread before going back to talk about something earlier in the thread? I comment as I see them.

 

You also misrepresent what Carucci said. He didn't say McD had major qualms with the roster Beane put together. The exact quote is this...
"I'm told that during a meeting held five weeks ago between McDermott, Beane and Pegula, the coach pointed out what the roster lacked to win a Super Bowl. I don't know the specifics McDermott mentioned, but I'm told neither Beane nor Pegula was pleased with McDermott's assessment."

If it was a meeting between McD, Beane and Pegula, which one of the 3 supposedly leaked this to Carucci? Maybe the waterboy was there taking notes.

 

Again, you are free to believe what you want. None of it is fact. Its rumor. You can't tell people something happened but something else never happened, in a factual way, when both are rumors.

[BananaB]

3 hours ago, GunnerBill said:

 

McDermott did allude to the WR deficiency at the end of last season in pressers the final few weeks of regular season. Some barbed comments in response to questions about the pass game about "having to call things our guys can execute" and that sort of thing. 

 

McDermott 100% had a say, and an influential one, on the strategic build of the roster - though as you refer to Brandon Beane drafts the way the Carolina Panthers drafted in the Hurney and Gettleman eras. That is where he cut his cloth and that is the foundation of his team building belief. But the individual talent evaluations they are all Beane and he is accountable for them. I think McD at the end was frustrated about what they were getting out of multiple of the guys Beane had brought in. 

I think we’ll soon find out that Shakir can do more than just catch screen passes. Cook will be used out of the backfield and Coleman won’t just be a jump ball guy. We got some speed guys and every time they seem the field it was to run a deep route. McD talked about versatility a lot but it seemed he wanted one guy to do very little and it was Brady’s job to change looks to get them the ball the same way. I remember in an interview last year Brady even saying that and I thought it was ***** up. 

[GaryPinC]

5 hours ago, Shaw66 said:

I wish people would stop saying this. I think it's an incorrect take. I think the wideout room looked the way it did in 24 and 25 at the direction of McDermott. I don't think there is any possibility that McDermott was saying to Beane going into 24 and then again going into 25, "get me a wideout" and Beane chose not to because he didn't think it was necessary. It's almost certain that McDermott had a vision for an "everybody eats" passing game and said he'd prefer Beane spent resources in other areas. We know, for example, that it was the coaching staff that preferred Coleman. I don't believe it's a coincidence that as soon as McDermott was gone, Beane went out and got a legitimate #1.  

I think it's worth mentioning that the "everybody eats" offense was born when Brady became OC and they stopped focusing the passing game on Diggs.  Diggs was traded that offseason, my point being perhaps the issues he caused in the locker room led the FO/coach to avoid similar prima donna #1 receivers, and that really hobbled the group.

 

Another point that McD wasn't happy with the quality of receivers Beane brought in can be totally legit if we're talking about the in-season signings but at that point there's only so many options when you're trying to bring in impactful #1-type receivers during the season.

 

Totally agree with your take heading into each season but then Beane had to scrape up other options.  Fault both of them.

 

Finally, the story about McD saying the roster wasn't SuperBowl worthy may have irked Pegula and Beane because of the role McD had in shaping it, not because the other two were delusional about the quality.  

[BobbyC81]

8 hours ago, H2o said:

I think this is the biggest part of what led to Josh's comments. Do I think things were limited by McDermott on offense? Yes, but I don't think it was the same type of friction that we saw between McDermott and Daboll.

I think most Bills fans would be excited about the thoughts of the Bills being more aggressive on offense, but I have memories of times when Josh was not restricted.  There were many instances where people here commented during a game and/or after a loss about replays that showed open receivers on shorter routes when Josh decided to pursue deeper receivers in tighter coverage that was unsuccessful.  
 

Also, despite Josh’s arm strength, he hasn’t been very good on deep balls.  After overthrowing receivers in his early days, Josh seemed to try and develop more touch on those deep attempts but it unfortunately has resulted in the balls being underthrown and contested catch attempts.

 

So, there were examples of being aggressive but the execution wasn’t there.

 

However, as others have pointed out, the Bills have been one of the highest scoring teams the last few years.   Potentially, being more aggressive offensively could result in more high scoring games where the opponents can’t keep up.  

[eball]

1 hour ago, Einstein said:

Yeah, I do not believe McD said the offense left too much time (13 seconds). 

That makes zero sense.

 

It may not make sense, but we saw McD tense up and over-evaluate in late game playoff situations consistently. A lot of that doesn't make sense.

 

Ty Dunne went out and interviewed anyone and everyone he could find who was around the 13-second debacle. I don't think he made that particular part up.

 

[Mikey152]

8 hours ago, Kirby Jackson said:

I think you nailed it. The answer is a little bit of “all of it” but the playbook opening is more about the talent. I do believe that Brady and McDermott have a different philosophy but the Bills weren’t avoiding certain throws because of philosophy. They were avoiding them because they didn’t have the talent to get open in those areas. With a healthy Palmer, adding Skyler Bell, and most importantly, adding DJ Moore, those plays are now available to them.

I don't agree, and I will tell you why...

 

The change occurred in the second half of 2023, when Brady took over. Diggs was still on the team and was having a great year before the switch.

 

I don't know what really happened, but it doesn't take a detective to see it. Mcdermott is conservative. He wants complimentary football.  That complimentary football had us sitting at 7-5, second in the division and down big at halftime to the Bucs. Daboll came out in the second half and said "f it" and the rest is history...we were a Mcdermott choke job away from the SB with an incredible offense.

 

Then Daboll leaves and Dorsey continues the plan. They come out dominant in 2022, then all kinds of crazy stuff happens and they get rocked by the Bengals.  They start 2023 with a hangover and the offense is leaving the defense out to dry. McDermott is sick of it and the wrecklessness. He fires Dorsey and installs Brady as OC so he can control him. Forces ball control and points per drive goes way up, mistakes go down.  Diggs hates his life and gets off the team. 2024 is a banner year for Josh and mistakes all time low, but when it counts against the chiefs we can't dial it back up like before. Same in 2025 only the mistakes return to the mean.

 

McDermott cut bait as soon as it stopped working with Dorsey. Forced more conservative offense. Playmakers left because no WR wants to be a blocker. 

[Scott7975]

7 minutes ago, BobbyC81 said:

I think most Bills fans would be excited about the thoughts of the Bills being more aggressive on offense, but I have memories of times when Josh was not restricted.  There were many instances where people here commented during a game and/or after a loss about replays that showed open receivers on shorter routes when Josh decided to pursue deeper receivers in tighter coverage that was unsuccessful.  
 

Also, despite Josh’s arm strength, he hasn’t been very good on deep balls.  After overthrowing receivers in his early days, Josh seemed to try and develop more touch on those deep attempts but it unfortunately has resulted in the balls being underthrown and contested catch attempts.

 

So, there were examples of being aggressive but the execution wasn’t there.

 

However, as others have pointed out, the Bills have been one of the highest scoring teams the last few years.   Potentially, being more aggressive offensively could result in more high scoring games where the opponents can’t keep up.  

 

More aggressive doesn't necessarily mean bombs downfield all game. Also, those same instances of him choosing a deeper receiver when one is open closer and it not working are the same plays that people jump out of their seat wowed when they do work.

 

Josh is not a game manager. People need to let Josh be Josh. Yes, help tone down the turnovers, but it's the things people complain about that also wow them and what makes him special and a top 2 QB in the league.

[BillsFan130]

2 hours ago, Augie said:

 

Cowardly? It was a supposedly conversation between the owner, the GM and the HC. It was said in confidence. There is absolutely nothing cowardly about a honest response among a closed group of people. Who leaked the contents of that conversation, and why?  I honestly don’t know, but I think that would be telling. 

They asked him publicly if he thinks the roster is good enough to win a Super Bowl. And he deflected the answer and basically was saying "no".

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/article/sean-mcdermott-said-bills-doesn-031951003.html

That^ is the cowardly part. As a leader/head of the team To say that to the media 

Edited September 2 by BillsFan130

[Mikey152]

Ha.  

 

I see Gunner doesn't agree.

 

DJ Moore has played like 2 series this preseason.  EVERYONE is getting more open and the ADOT is clearly deeper for all the QBs. The offense is different and it happened IMMEDIATELY after Mcdermott left. Does DJ Moore make an aggressive offense work better?  Of course he does. Is he the reason they are being more aggressive?  Doubtful, based on how this all played out.

 

Diggs was averaging (I just eyballed it) like 10 targets, 7 catches and 90 yards per game when Dorsey got fired.  After he was fired, it dropped to 7 or 8 with 5 catches and like 40 yards.  Before firing he had 5 100 yard games and only one was below 50 (Denver...the game that led to the firing). After, two games OVER 50, no 100, and several UNDER 30.  Also had 7 TDs before and 1 after.

Edited September 2 by Mikey152