Vince Young Documentary on Netflix

[Buffalo716]

On 9/2/2026 at 5:58 AM, GaryPinC said:

Don't blame it all on being babied at Texas.  Lamar,  Josh, Sam, and a long list of QBs weren't properly developed in college.  Competitive nature, passion, and perseverance play a big role in qbs developing at the NFL level if they possess sufficient football IQ.

Josh was doing full field reads at Wyoming 

 

Since young was on a read option 2 read and run system 

 

He was so physically gifted he read half the field and then ran and then did read option 

 

That was his offense with play action.. literally designed for the best athlete not to get you any better

 

As I said football IQ is a much bigger indicator of success then mental IQ.. there is a difference 

 

Vince Young didn't have the greatest football IQ because he literally was never asked to grow as a football player.. that was my point.. if he got to take five step drops under center consistently and learn to play pro style that could have helped him 

 

They kept him in the safest offense to win now.. and never had him grow .. even USC's offense has way more pro-style reads than what Texas did during Vince Young's time

 

Josh Allen had Craig bohl who is a terrific quarterback developer.. developed Carson Wentz also

 

He has two top 10 pics under his name from a small school developer.. he's a great coach... If I was a young quarterback who had no major offers and had to go to a group of five School... Craig bohl would be who I would want to coach me the last 15 years

 

And Sam Darnold was in a spread pro style offense at USC.. yes it was spread but it has had NFL elements in it for 25 years .. so he wasn't getting handicapped either 

 

Josh was taking under center snaps with a line that left him under siege and he played with one practice squad wide receiver.. and one NFL tight end.. he was running for his life constantly at Wyoming which helped him in the NFL because he wasn't shell shocked when he became under fire 

 

Darnold had a solid line at USC.. so when he got to the NFL and became under siege he did regress because he didn't consistently face that pressure.. Josh dealt with that for years so when dealt with fire at the NFL level he was more prepared 

 

But to say that Craig bohl isn't a good quarterback developer... Josh was running offenses under center when the rest of the world was going spread RPO 

 

That literally makes it tougher to operate but it actually helped Josh long-term.. Josh was in an offense that got him ready for the NFL better than what Vince Young was in

 

Vince lacked NFL high football IQ.. but it's cuz he had terrific coaches who didn't ever help him with that.. they wanted to win now with the most ready player not develop somebody 

 

College.. major college football isn't about developing quarterbacks for the NFL.. it's about finding the best kid to win college games right now...

 

Wyoming was developing Josh Allen more for the NFL than what Texas did for Vince Young.. Texas prepared Vince Young to win on a stack team.. not prepare for the NFL 

 

Josh was mentally prepared for the NFL because of the reps he was getting.. and the play's getting called 

 

Lamar Jackson has a good football IQ.. Josh Allen has a great football IQ.. Vince Young not so much but his Texas days didn't do much to prepare him.. not by the offensive system or the play calls 

 

My point was football IQ and intellectual IQ are different.. Vince Young never developed his football IQ which is why he never had great success in the NFL... But I wouldn't say it's because he's intellectually not smart 

 

You could be terrible at math and have a great football IQ and still be a good quarterback.. Vince Young just didn't have that either

Edited September 4 by Buffalo716

[Buddy Hix]

On 8/31/2026 at 4:14 AM, Lost said:

Why does Vince Young have a documentary?   

Same reason the Buffalo Bills have a message board.

[GaryPinC]

3 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Josh was doing full field reads at Wyoming 

 

Since young was on a read option 2 read and run system 

 

He was so physically gifted he read half the field and then ran and then did read option 

 

That was his offense with play action.. literally designed for the best athlete not to get you any better

 

As I said football IQ is a much bigger indicator of success then mental IQ.. there is a difference 

 

Vince Young didn't have the greatest football IQ because he literally was never asked to grow as a football player.. that was my point.. if he got to take five step drops under center consistently and learn to play pro style that could have helped him 

 

They kept him in the safest offense to win now.. and never had him grow .. even USC's offense has way more pro-style reads than what Texas did during Vince Young's time

 

Josh Allen had Craig bohl who is a terrific quarterback developer.. developed Carson Wentz also

 

He has two top 10 pics under his name from a small school developer.. he's a great coach... If I was a young quarterback who had no major offers and had to go to a group of five School... Craig bohl would be who I would want to coach me the last 15 years

 

And Sam Darnold was in a spread pro style offense at USC.. yes it was spread but it has had NFL elements in it for 25 years .. so he wasn't getting handicapped either 

 

Josh was taking under center snaps with a line that left him under siege and he played with one practice squad wide receiver.. and one NFL tight end.. he was running for his life constantly at Wyoming which helped him in the NFL because he wasn't shell shocked when he became under fire 

 

Darnold had a solid line at USC.. so when he got to the NFL and became under siege he did regress because he didn't consistently face that pressure.. Josh dealt with that for years so when dealt with fire at the NFL level he was more prepared 

 

But to say that Craig bohl isn't a good quarterback developer... Josh was running offenses under center when the rest of the world was going spread RPO 

 

That literally makes it tougher to operate but it actually helped Josh long-term.. Josh was in an offense that got him ready for the NFL better than what Vince Young was in

 

Vince lacked NFL high football IQ.. but it's cuz he had terrific coaches who didn't ever help him with that.. they wanted to win now with the most ready player not develop somebody 

 

College.. major college football isn't about developing quarterbacks for the NFL.. it's about finding the best kid to win college games right now...

 

Wyoming was developing Josh Allen more for the NFL than what Texas did for Vince Young.. Texas prepared Vince Young to win on a stack team.. not prepare for the NFL 

 

Josh was mentally prepared for the NFL because of the reps he was getting.. and the play's getting called 

 

Lamar Jackson has a good football IQ.. Josh Allen has a great football IQ.. Vince Young not so much but his Texas days didn't do much to prepare him.. not by the offensive system or the play calls 

 

My point was football IQ and intellectual IQ are different.. Vince Young never developed his football IQ which is why he never had great success in the NFL... But I wouldn't say it's because he's intellectually not smart 

 

You could be terrible at math and have a great football IQ and still be a good quarterback.. Vince Young just didn't have that either

Thanks for the great response.  You'll get no argument from me about football IQ vs regular IQ, I agree completely. 

Just to be clear, I consider a high football IQ understanding the tactics, and strategies but, just as importantly, being able to process them quickly enough to be highly successful in the NFL and even impart their own impact on any given play.  Michael Hoecht last year is one non-QB example.

 

Also totally agree about most college coaches want a QB to win now and don't worry about NFL development, just develop them enough to run the offense they decide on.

 

WRT Josh, I appreciate your insights and did not know he had a solid QB coach at Wyoming trying to develop him.  But to my point, I believe even if he hadn't he was so driven to succeed he would have still figured it out at this level.  He clearly consulted ex QBs and worked hard in the offseason to attack his weaknesses and I feel this is an important trait to finding success that Vince Young didn't appear to possess.

 

The reason I didn't realize Josh had solid college coaching was because quite honestly the college game snaps films I could find didn't impress me from a football IQ standpoint.  More than once he made terrible decisions to throw the ball right to a defender.  He also didn't seem to throw his open outlet patterns, so I somewhat assumed he wasn't going through his progressions.  But you do make a good point about him always running for his life may have hidden his IQ. Although when he got to the Bills it seemed like more of the same where he always seemed to push the ball downfield and largely ignore his outlets until Daboll's last season.

 

Lamar's definitely another guy to me appeared to work really hard at this level to improve his thinking and maximize his IQ.   I could see it watching his Louisville snaps, it just seemed like a bonus the coaches didn't care about in the context of that offense.  How would you say Lamar's college developmental coaching was?

 

Circling back on VY, your point about his college coaching is a good one, I just think his lack of passion and competitiveness to the game is what ultimately did him in.  Even if he had been better developed, would he have had the perseverance to translate it effectively to the NFL?

[Buffalo716]

6 hours ago, GaryPinC said:

Thanks for the great response.  You'll get no argument from me about football IQ vs regular IQ, I agree completely. 

Just to be clear, I consider a high football IQ understanding the tactics, and strategies but, just as importantly, being able to process them quickly enough to be highly successful in the NFL and even impart their own impact on any given play.  Michael Hoecht last year is one non-QB example.

 

Also totally agree about most college coaches want a QB to win now and don't worry about NFL development, just develop them enough to run the offense they decide on.

 

WRT Josh, I appreciate your insights and did not know he had a solid QB coach at Wyoming trying to develop him.  But to my point, I believe even if he hadn't he was so driven to succeed he would have still figured it out at this level.  He clearly consulted ex QBs and worked hard in the offseason to attack his weaknesses and I feel this is an important trait to finding success that Vince Young didn't appear to possess.

 

The reason I didn't realize Josh had solid college coaching was because quite honestly the college game snaps films I could find didn't impress me from a football IQ standpoint.  More than once he made terrible decisions to throw the ball right to a defender.  He also didn't seem to throw his open outlet patterns, so I somewhat assumed he wasn't going through his progressions.  But you do make a good point about him always running for his life may have hidden his IQ. Although when he got to the Bills it seemed like more of the same where he always seemed to push the ball downfield and largely ignore his outlets until Daboll's last season.

 

Lamar's definitely another guy to me appeared to work really hard at this level to improve his thinking and maximize his IQ.   I could see it watching his Louisville snaps, it just seemed like a bonus the coaches didn't care about in the context of that offense.  How would you say Lamar's college developmental coaching was?

 

Circling back on VY, your point about his college coaching is a good one, I just think his lack of passion and competitiveness to the game is what ultimately did him in.  Even if he had been better developed, would he have had the perseverance to translate it effectively to the NFL?

Probably not

 

I don't think Vince Young was really cut out for the NFL.. some kids are just TaylorMade for college...

 

If you dropped Vince Young in this modern NFL in 2026 would he have a better shot at surviving? Yea... But I don't think it's guaranteed 

 

And yea football IQ is the ability to pre-snap look at the defense and read it consistently... Understanding situational football.. down and distance.. time management... Do you know where to go with the ball on quarters? Palms? Do you understand why your reads are what they are? My point about never being under center really was about a lack of development in a true structured passing attack.. when you're under center you have to get used to 3 5 7 step drops and letting it rip without hitching... That speeds up your processing.. he didn't really get that much

 

None of that was Vince's forte... 

 

I think Lamar with petrino was kinda like Vince but the passing concepts were still significantly more simple with young.. Louisville's offense was dynamically built around Lamar and he was put in a spot to showcase talent but not really grow as a passer... To this day he is super efficient at what he's good at.. and he does have a strong arm and he can throw 

 

But petrino again , wasn't there to get him ready to become the best NFL quarterback.. he was there to put in a game plan that would make Lamar Jackson win on Saturday... Petrino definitely got him up to speed but probably didn't do long-term favors for him getting to your third fourth read

 

As to Josh.. I think his mindset sometimes overtakes his football IQ.. we saw it in the playoffs against Denver when he fumbled with 20 seconds left... He's supremely smart but sometimes his mindset to make a play overrides his football IQ 

 

Bohl at Wyoming, again trying to get ready to win in the mountain West... But he's a terrific guy to be around for three or four years if you're a Young quarterback... 

 

He wasn't really touching Josh's mechanics .. they don't do that in college really.. the ball leaves your hand good.. doesn't matter if it looks like Tebow... It's about consistency... There's basically a arm strength threshold you're going to need.. obviously the arm strength threshold is different for the SEC than it is the MAC...

 

You hit that threshold.. that's all they're looking for... So that's why when Josh came here he was mechanically not great... Bohl didn't have the time to remake the kids mechanics... What he did is get Josh in a non gimmicky offense... And get him good on the whiteboard... In a heavy under center tight end focused offense 

 

As you said maybe watching Josh in college still seemed unstructured.. I think that's just cuz our guy Josh wants to make plays.. and he's became less antsy over the years..  at 20 the dude definitely was antsy to make a play...

 

BUT behind the scenes Josh had a good grasp of the offense and the scheme... Bohl was coaching him up on the whiteboard and Josh knew why the reads are this way for this play... But this way for that play... He knew where the check down was and what to do against Tampa 2 on the short side of the hash

 

Just when it went live and it's all flying around.. his ability to want to make a play would come out faster... So his preparation, he knew what his reads are and why.. he knew where he was supposed to go with the ball 

 

But his game experience was so green.. tiny tiny high School small juco ,getting thrown to D1 ball.. that his instincts were taking over a lot of the time 

 

It wasn't until he got a thousand repetitions.. and getting under another smart guy like daboll.. is when it all started to slow down... Typically that's what it is with quarterbacks... Repetition and slowing down the game 

 

Baker came into the league hot because he played tons and tons and tons of football with a tremendous coach .. he literally had seen and been through every experience and the game slowed down 

 

Why he can come into the  league and throw 28 touchdowns

[ShakAttack]

On 8/31/2026 at 1:14 AM, Lost said:

Why does Vince Young have a documentary?   

 

For some reason Untold likes to feature athletes like VY.  Pretty much the busts.  They don't usually feature anyone that reached stardom in their sport.  

 

Their RAYGUN documentary that came out after Vince Young was hard to watch (but I did watch it).

So I guess this game had to be one of the highlights of Young's career:

 

 

 

[GaryPinC]

18 hours ago, Buffalo716 said:

Probably not

 

I don't think Vince Young was really cut out for the NFL.. some kids are just TaylorMade for college...

 

If you dropped Vince Young in this modern NFL in 2026 would he have a better shot at surviving? Yea... But I don't think it's guaranteed 

 

And yea football IQ is the ability to pre-snap look at the defense and read it consistently... Understanding situational football.. down and distance.. time management... Do you know where to go with the ball on quarters? Palms? Do you understand why your reads are what they are? My point about never being under center really was about a lack of development in a true structured passing attack.. when you're under center you have to get used to 3 5 7 step drops and letting it rip without hitching... That speeds up your processing.. he didn't really get that much

 

None of that was Vince's forte... 

 

I think Lamar with petrino was kinda like Vince but the passing concepts were still significantly more simple with young.. Louisville's offense was dynamically built around Lamar and he was put in a spot to showcase talent but not really grow as a passer... To this day he is super efficient at what he's good at.. and he does have a strong arm and he can throw 

 

But petrino again , wasn't there to get him ready to become the best NFL quarterback.. he was there to put in a game plan that would make Lamar Jackson win on Saturday... Petrino definitely got him up to speed but probably didn't do long-term favors for him getting to your third fourth read

 

As to Josh.. I think his mindset sometimes overtakes his football IQ.. we saw it in the playoffs against Denver when he fumbled with 20 seconds left... He's supremely smart but sometimes his mindset to make a play overrides his football IQ 

 

Bohl at Wyoming, again trying to get ready to win in the mountain West... But he's a terrific guy to be around for three or four years if you're a Young quarterback... 

 

He wasn't really touching Josh's mechanics .. they don't do that in college really.. the ball leaves your hand good.. doesn't matter if it looks like Tebow... It's about consistency... There's basically a arm strength threshold you're going to need.. obviously the arm strength threshold is different for the SEC than it is the MAC...

 

You hit that threshold.. that's all they're looking for... So that's why when Josh came here he was mechanically not great... Bohl didn't have the time to remake the kids mechanics... What he did is get Josh in a non gimmicky offense... And get him good on the whiteboard... In a heavy under center tight end focused offense 

 

As you said maybe watching Josh in college still seemed unstructured.. I think that's just cuz our guy Josh wants to make plays.. and he's became less antsy over the years..  at 20 the dude definitely was antsy to make a play...

 

BUT behind the scenes Josh had a good grasp of the offense and the scheme... Bohl was coaching him up on the whiteboard and Josh knew why the reads are this way for this play... But this way for that play... He knew where the check down was and what to do against Tampa 2 on the short side of the hash

 

Just when it went live and it's all flying around.. his ability to want to make a play would come out faster... So his preparation, he knew what his reads are and why.. he knew where he was supposed to go with the ball 

 

But his game experience was so green.. tiny tiny high School small juco ,getting thrown to D1 ball.. that his instincts were taking over a lot of the time 

 

It wasn't until he got a thousand repetitions.. and getting under another smart guy like daboll.. is when it all started to slow down... Typically that's what it is with quarterbacks... Repetition and slowing down the game 

 

Baker came into the league hot because he played tons and tons and tons of football with a tremendous coach .. he literally had seen and been through every experience and the game slowed down 

 

Why he can come into the  league and throw 28 touchdowns

Thank you very much for all the time taken for these illuminating and insightful responses.  I've learned a lot and appreciate a professional insight.  I didn't realize Josh was so well developed coming out, definitely he relied strongly on his instincts.

Funny you mention Baker, I live in CLE and told my son that he was the most NFL ready QB in the draft, a little lower ceiling but it was obvious how well he could analyze the field pre and post snap coming out.

 

Last question, do you have any solid info if anyone really championed Josh in/to the FO back then?  It would be nice to know that staff were still on board in the future when we have to choose another QB.

[Ayjent]

On 8/31/2026 at 2:07 PM, billsfan714 said:

That was my take too, too much of it was always somebody else's fault.  Why didnt Vince have any success away from Fisher?  Vince was immature and never had the passing skills for the NFL.

Well, what I understood about what he was saying is that he realizes he didn't always handle things the way he wanted in retrospect and clearly takes some blame upon himself, but on the other hand you had a guy that came in and showed he had the talent to be successful in the NFL and a coach that was hellbent on being the bigger personality and the boss, especially when the player wasn't the coach's preference.  So you had a recipe for a disaster because the organization wasn't in lock-step with the development of its QB.  A very important investment was used as a pawn in a petty power struggle between the owner and the coach.  Mack Brown was tough but caring and let him know he was there to have his back, and Fisher was tough and petty and did whatever he could to get his way.  I think Vince Young may have been able to thrive in better circumstances, but Tennessee wasn't the only place this story could have turned out similarly, but it was probably the worst combination.  Its really what made the documentary compelling, because it does bring the reality of these players emotional well-being into focus and how important it is to their success.

 

This isn't the first time this has happened in sports where you have someone coming from less than ideal circumstances with the emotional baggage that comes with it, put into a real poor situation, especially with an ass clown coach like Fisher, who received far more credit than he deserved for his coaching which became very obvious as his career went on.  I don't think Young helped himself thrive despite Fisher, which is likely what McNair did.  Fisher comes off as almost a hollow soul that seems to be struggling with the concept of his own responsibility and failures on a personal level (i.e., he doesn't seem capable of actually having any feeling of responsibility for his own failures).

Edited September 9 by Ayjent

[corta765]

Just going to add this regarding Fisher having watched him through All or Nothing and other spots on docs etc.

He is 100% a coach of a bygone era that really does not fit in todays NFL. Frankly young probably would have been better in todays NFL where coaches and orgs are far more supportive of players and meet them more where they are. When Young was drafted the NFL still was a my way or the high way approach for a lotttt of coaches and they could rule in a more heavy authority style mindset. Even Bruce Arians who I think was a tremendous coach adjusted in his time from Arizona to Tampa with how he approached players. Tom Coughlin was a good example of a guy who actually had to adjust his coaching style to survive and it ended up with him getting two rings in NY (If you are not aware there was alottt of flak heading into 2007 that Coughlin was wayyy to heavy as a coach with the Giants).

 

So I am frankly not surprised Fisher came off as cold and a jerk. He didn't want Vince Young, he was use to running a tight ship with a heavy hand, and at the time Young was drafted he had been very successful with TEN until McNair faded. In the end players are responsible for their careers and Young lacked the maturity & responsibility needed to be a guy in the league. The fact Fisher basically dumped him after a playoff year and then went 13-3 with a division crown speaks volumes to Young just not being able to figure it out & Fisher at the time understanding what he needed for his team.

 

I remember watching Young his big year in college and he 100% had the tools and gifts to be a guy in the NFL. He never figured it out, the team was never fully committed to him either (as shown), and that was that.

 

He is lucky his name was so big after everything that it still carries weight where people remember him.

[Ayjent]

2 hours ago, corta765 said:

Just going to add this regarding Fisher having watched him through All or Nothing and other spots on docs etc.

He is 100% a coach of a bygone era that really does not fit in todays NFL. Frankly young probably would have been better in todays NFL where coaches and orgs are far more supportive of players and meet them more where they are. When Young was drafted the NFL still was a my way or the high way approach for a lotttt of coaches and they could rule in a more heavy authority style mindset. Even Bruce Arians who I think was a tremendous coach adjusted in his time from Arizona to Tampa with how he approached players. Tom Coughlin was a good example of a guy who actually had to adjust his coaching style to survive and it ended up with him getting two rings in NY (If you are not aware there was alottt of flak heading into 2007 that Coughlin was wayyy to heavy as a coach with the Giants).

 

So I am frankly not surprised Fisher came off as cold and a jerk. He didn't want Vince Young, he was use to running a tight ship with a heavy hand, and at the time Young was drafted he had been very successful with TEN until McNair faded. In the end players are responsible for their careers and Young lacked the maturity & responsibility needed to be a guy in the league. The fact Fisher basically dumped him after a playoff year and then went 13-3 with a division crown speaks volumes to Young just not being able to figure it out & Fisher at the time understanding what he needed for his team.

 

I remember watching Young his big year in college and he 100% had the tools and gifts to be a guy in the NFL. He never figured it out, the team was never fully committed to him either (as shown), and that was that.

 

He is lucky his name was so big after everything that it still carries weight where people remember him.

Dead on right.  He could have been very successful, but those conditions were not right and what transpired from there wasn't something that could be easily salvaged, even though many teams tried.  Too much had gone wrong and we know to this day NFL teams don't readily take on distractions and baggage that follow the team around.  The talent keeps teams trying but they are like a sticky note that you put on a pet and then try to post again - just isn't going to stick for too long.  Mike Vick may be one of the few exceptions but even then it was always more than just about him as a player after the conviction.

[Mr. WEO]

8 hours ago, Ayjent said:

Well, what I understood about what he was saying is that he realizes he didn't always handle things the way he wanted in retrospect and clearly takes some blame upon himself, but on the other hand you had a guy that came in and showed he had the talent to be successful in the NFL and a coach that was hellbent on being the bigger personality and the boss, especially when the player wasn't the coach's preference.  So you had a recipe for a disaster because the organization wasn't in lock-step with the development of its QB.  A very important investment was used as a pawn in a petty power struggle between the owner and the coach.  Mack Brown was tough but caring and let him know he was there to have his back, and Fisher was tough and petty and did whatever he could to get his way.  I think Vince Young may have been able to thrive in better circumstances, but Tennessee wasn't the only place this story could have turned out similarly, but it was probably the worst combination.  Its really what made the documentary compelling, because it does bring the reality of these players emotional well-being into focus and how important it is to their success.

 

This isn't the first time this has happened in sports where you have someone coming from less than ideal circumstances with the emotional baggage that comes with it, put into a real poor situation, especially with an ass clown coach like Fisher, who received far more credit than he deserved for his coaching which became very obvious as his career went on.  I don't think Young helped himself thrive despite Fisher, which is likely what McNair did.  Fisher comes off as almost a hollow soul that seems to be struggling with the concept of his own responsibility and failures on a personal level (i.e., he doesn't seem capable of actually having any feeling of responsibility for his own failures).

 

He showed the complete opposite.  No talent for the Pro game.  He just wasn't bright enough to play NFL QB.  Plus he was lazy, spent his whole life to that point hearing what an amazing athlete he was--guess he figured talent was enough.

 

That wasn't the coaching staff's fault.  Fisher won 10 games with Young and that other giant idiot (Hayneswworth, who he turned into an AP-1) on the roster.  In 2008, after Young got injured in an awful week 1 performance, Fisher pulled Kerry Collins out of a sock drawer and won 12 more games, getting to the Div title game (as Ypung never won his starting job back).  Such a great running QB that he racked up under 1500 yards in 6 season, a dozen TDs.

 

In year 6 he was shuffled off to Philly.  Andy Reid couldn't do anything with him.  But sure,  this was Fisher's doing--he just didn't want to win games with Young.