What is the origin of “Ralph is cheap.”

[Marcus Aurelius]

Being the oldest Poster on TBD, (afterall I was born in the year 121 AD  in Rome), I think this disparagement came soon after the Bills fall from grace after the AFL Championships in 65 and 66. The threats to move the team to Seattle, the Lancaster Dome squabble and so on. Anyway, its origin was from antiquity  😉

[Since1981]

1 hour ago, eball said:

For me it started with not wanting to pay Chuck Knox and his coaching staff; ruined what the Bills were building and sent us into a 6-year tailspin until Polian and Levy arrived

This is the moment. There was no salary cap. There was no coach cap. People forget that Ralph made more money from the Bills. Pegs is the opposite where he made his wealth prior to Bills. 

[dave mcbride]

17 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Even earlier...

 

1965: After two good seasons Pete Gogolak wanted a raise from 10,000 to 13,000. Ralph said no and Pete signed with the Giants.

Lou Saban quit the second time in 1976 in large part because he was angered by how Wilson handled OJ’s holdout prior to the 1976 season (Simpson sat out all of camp and demanded a trade to LA).

[mannc]

In the late 60’s or early 70’s, RW fired head coach Harvey Johnson (probably the worst HC in Bills history) mid-season, but kept him on as the defensive backs coach, presumably so he didn’t have to pay him to do nothing.  I think Ralph re-hired Johnson as the HC a year or two later, with appalling results.  Fortunately, I was not a Bills fan then.

Edited August 30 by mannc

[ComradeKayAdams]

33 minutes ago, Boatdrinks said:

It started with backing out of the planned dome stadium in Lancaster for an 80,000 seat open air structure in Orchard Park. It then continued  with not paying the $$$ to retain Chuck Knox as HC. Threatening to move the team to Seattle in the 80’s  etc. 

 

It started when Ralph started the Bills, actually. The team’s original uniforms were hand-me-downs from the Detroit Lions franchise!

 

We should be careful, however, not to judge his notorious stinginess entirely from the modern NFL perspective. Owning an NFL team was not always the absurd cash cow that it is today. Some of Ralph Wilson’s very questionable football decisions make a bit more sense when one acknowledges the financial constraints from having operated in such a small market for so long.

 

I encourage people to read up on Ralph’s role in the AFL-NFL merger. He was a savvy businessman and pro football visionary. The Pro Football Hall of Fame properly recognizes his greatness.

[Buftex]

Eternally grateful to Ralph for keeping the Bills in Buffalo...but he really was a cheap when it came to building the team.  When they were on the cusp of being an elite team, for the first time in my lifetime (the Chuck Knox era), he just wouldn't spend the money to keep things going...the competition for players, from the USFL really cut that run short. And his pettiness with coaches over the years (most of it for monetary reasons) gave the team a horrible reputation around the league. Though it ultimately worked out great (as it turned into a trade that netted the draft pick that would turn into Jim Kelly) having your #1 draft pick(Tom Cousineau- #1 overall) opt to go to the CFL says a lot.  He was a cheapskate...but he was our cheapskate!

[Rousseauisnoschmo]

Constantly got into contract battles with good players when Stew Barber was GM. That finally changed when Polian took over. 

[RichRiderBills]

The Origin of Ralph was cheap was, in fact...Ralph was cheap.

 

IMO Wilson was just old school and a shrewd business man. The big problem was the money got so big and wild guys like Wilson just could not survive. 

 

I think the earliest impressions were because he came from Detroit and was already a no nonsense out of towner/ maybe even a carpet bagger. 

Edited August 30 by RichRiderBills

[Steptide]

Grew up watching the bills, but really didn't become a die hard until the flutie/Johnson era. Wasn't the entire reason Johnson started against the titans in the playoffs, was because he made more money? Which seems crazy now. Simply starting a guy cuz he's paid more 

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

55 minutes ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Even earlier...

 

1965: After two good seasons Pete Gogolak wanted a raise from 10,000 to 13,000. Ralph said no and Pete signed with the Giants.

 

That actually started the war between the NFL and AFL that lead to the eventual merger.  Gogolak was still under contract to the Bills, so when the Giants signed him, the AFL led by Al Davis started signing NFL players still under contract.  It got so crazy, salaries were skyrocketing that within around 2 years, the NFL agreed to the merge and the SB era started.  Wasn't until 1970 a couple more years that the leagues fully merged.

[The Frankish Reich]

4 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

Being the oldest Poster on TBD, (afterall I was born in the year 121 AD  in Rome), I think this disparagement came soon after the Bills fall from grace after the AFL Championships in 65 and 66. The threats to move the team to Seattle, the Lancaster Dome squabble and so on. Anyway, its origin was from antiquity  😉

Well, I'm no spring chicken but this is the first time I've heard about a threatened move to Seattle, much less the ... Lancaster Dome?

[Marcus Aurelius]

7 minutes ago, The Frankish Reich said:

Well, I'm no spring chicken but this is the first time I've heard about a threatened move to Seattle, much less the ... Lancaster Dome?

Oh come on! 🙄  ... 

You must not be a native WNYer. Here:

 

"A multi-use domed football and baseball stadium was proposed to be built in Lancaster, New York, in the late 1960s and early 1970s, but it was never actually constructed.History of the Lancaster DomeThe Plan: In 1969, Erie County agreed to build a $50 million multi-purpose dome modeled after the Houston Astrodome to serve as a new home for the Buffalo Bills and a potential baseball team, complete with plans for surrounding hotels and a theme park.The Location: The facility was planned for a site along Pleasant View Drive and Walden Avenue in Lancaster."

[Sierra Foothills]

7 hours ago, The Jokeman said:

So many things not sure it just one thing. He didn't want to pay Wade Phillips the rest of his contract when he fired him. As he felt he quit when he didn't fire his ST coach after home run throwback. As Ralph gave Wade the ultimatum fire him or you both go more of a sgin Wade quit. Also Rich Stadium had some serious issues that went unfixed and then there was his tight money on contracts. There was talk he wouldn't budge on giving a player $9k more in one negotiation.  His/Marv cash to cap philosophy was horrible.  

 

6 hours ago, Neo said:

During the late 2000s and early 2010s playoff drought, the Bills consistently operated far below the league maximum. For instance, in 2011, the Bills sat more than $20 million under the salary cap. Critics noted that while other owners spent heavily up to the cap limit to secure depth, Wilson frequently ran the team using a "cash-to-cap" deficit, which limited the roster's competitiveness.

 

Wilson rarely broke the bank for premier head coaches or front-office executives, often hiring lesser-known or inexpensive candidates. Hall of Fame General Manager Bill Polian was famously let go in 1992 following a money dispute, after which he went on to build Super Bowl teams elsewhere. When head coaching vacancies opened, Wilson routinely bypassed highly sought-after, expensive targets like Mike Shanahan or Bill Cowher, opting instead for lower-cost internal promotions or budget-friendly options.

 

O.J. Simpson (1976): When Simpson demanded a higher contract, Wilson balked at the price. Simpson openly threatened to retire and pursue a Hollywood movie career before a deal was finally reached.  Jason Peters (2009): One of the best left tackles in franchise history held out for a premium contract extension. Wilson refused to pay top dollar for a premier lineman, resulting in Peters being traded away to the Philadelphia Eagles.

 

I would add:  Wilson’s CFO, Littman, who spoke “income statement,” was often the voice in the press discussing decisions and circumstances.    

 

6 hours ago, eball said:

For me it started with not wanting to pay Chuck Knox and his coaching staff; ruined what the Bills were building and sent us into a 6-year tailspin until Polian and Levy arrived.

 

 

6 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

So many moments, but one that stands out is his refusal to match the offer by the MONTREAL FREAKING ALLOUETTES for Tom Cousineau. Regardless of how good or bad Cousineau may have been, the Bills elected to draft him number one overall but then wouldn’t match the offer from what was effectively a minor league team: https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2011/6/29/2248180/tom-cousineau-cfl-buffalo-bills. Relatedly, Kelly refused to play for the Bills for three seasons because he didn’t like the Bills’ offer.

 

6 hours ago, Boatdrinks said:

It started with backing out of the planned dome stadium in Lancaster for an 80,000 seat open air structure in Orchard Park. It then continued  with not paying the $$$ to retain Chuck Knox as HC. Threatening to move the team to Seattle in the 80’s  etc. 

 

5 hours ago, \GoBillsInDallas/ said:

Even earlier...

 

1965: After two good seasons Pete Gogolak wanted a raise from 10,000 to 13,000. Ralph said no and Pete signed with the Giants.

 

5 hours ago, dave mcbride said:

Lou Saban quit the second time in 1976 in large part because he was angered by how Wilson handled OJ’s holdout prior to the 1976 season (Simpson sat out all of camp and demanded a trade to LA).

 

So @Professor Worthington, as you can see Ralph's cheapness started very early and continued for many decades.

 

On the other hand, we're all eternally grateful to Ralph that he didn't move the Bills to another city.

 

[sven233]

There were a lot of things that contributed to it all the way back to when he bought the team.  All of it piled up to create the saying.  

 

But I think that when he started the whole "Cash to the Cap" thing is when it really started to take off in abundance and fans started making light of the actual saying.  

Edited August 31 by sven233

[13 Seconds to Mars]

7 hours ago, Professor Worthington said:

Just curious. Anyone know?

Starting Robo-Sack over Flutie. I never forgave Ralph Wilson after that. I’m a big believer in karma and the music city miracle and 17 year playoff drought happened afterwards. Flutie-mania was my coming of age into a die hard fan. 

[US Egg]

5 hours ago, Marcus Aurelius said:

The threats to move the team to Seattle, the Lancaster Dome squabble and so on.

Ralph wasn’t the reason the Lancaster dome didn’t happen. The county agreed to pay for it and then bailed after estimates came in 20 mil over the 50 mil estimate, resulting in their building the concrete bowl in Orchard Park.

[That's No Moon]

4 minutes ago, US Egg said:

Ralph wasn’t the reason the Lancaster dome didn’t happen. The county agreed to pay for it and then bailed after estimates came in 20 mil over the 50 mil estimate, resulting in their building the concrete bowl in Orchard Park.

I believe if the county had built that dome the early 70's the team would have moved eventually.  The footprint of Rich Stadium, and the fact it was built as a football only venue, gave them the ability to modify it with additional luxury seating, etc. in a way that a dome like that would not have permitted.  Paces like the Astrodome, Metrodome, Silverdome, and Kingdome were built more or less in that era and were replaced much earlier than Rich was.  The outdoor multipurpose stadiums of that time like Three Rivers, Riverfront, the Vet, Busch Stadium, Fulton County, Jack Murphy all either got replaced, or the team left (Saint Louis to Phoenix, San Diego to LA) before Rich was replaced too.

[Just Jack]

7 hours ago, eSJayDee said:

Also, perhaps somewhat humorously -IDK if they were actually factual, jokes made about him driving around in a Taurus.

 

He did have a PT Cruiser. 

 

[Don Otreply]

A top quality owner doesn’t allow their team to go the better part of two decades without a playoff berth, and continuously hire crap coaches and GMs , loosely put, the Kelly era was Ralph Wilson’s only real success during the modern era,  frustrating times were had by one and all, we laughed, we cried, it became a part of us…, 

 

GO BILLS!!! 
 

god it’s great being a fan of this team, 😁🍸🚬

[Victory Formation]

Cash to cap. Couldn't compete with the big market teams..